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Off season plan to rebuild (not too hard)

5BowlsSoon : 1/23/2020 7:10 pm
We have over 60 million, so we should be able to pick up 2-3 quality guys:
1. Pick up one quality Hog Mollie in free agency
2. Pick up a quality linebacker or EDGE in free agency
3. Either resign Williams or pick up another solid
4. Trade down from 4 to 5-7. Pick up either Simmons or the best tackle.
5. With the extra 2nd round pick, pick up two quality defensive players in round 2 if we took a tackle in round one. If we took Simmons or another defensive player, take one defensive player and a Hog Mollie
6. In round 3 pick up another defensive player (secondary, linebacker, edge)
7. Round 3s compensatory pick, use on a big WR

Letís stop there and see where we are just to show you how fast we can turn this around, much like SF did this year:

Offense:
1. We picked up 2 quality Hog Mollies (high draft, FA). Both of these Mollies will start, as well as Possibly Nick Gates, who can play center. Solder and Big George as primary back ups. (Check)
2. Slayton, Shepard, Big drafted WR, Tate, Coleman....5 WRs (Check)
3. DJones, Saquon, Gallman, and the bruising FB we picked up (check)

Defense:
1. Line...strength of team (Williams, Dex, Tomlinson, good backups) (check)
2. LB: the free agent stud, Simmons, Connelly, Ogletree? (Mostly check, but would like one more solid player)
3. Secondary: Love and Peppers as safeties Are solid; Beal Baker, the 2nd or 3rd draft pick, Ballentine (fingers crossed check)

Conclusion:
Offense will kick ass with 2-3 new Hog Mollies, plus Coleman and the big WR we drafted will add fire power

Defense will improve greatly with just 2 new bodies. Ogletree starting is iffy. Letís see what the new coaches think.

I Believe and hope the secondary grows up fast with better coaching and the year of experience they gained.

So what do you think?
we don't have a pick in round three  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/23/2020 7:13 pm : link
we traded it away -- only have the comp pick
Re:we don't have a pick in round three  
Aaron Thomas : 1/23/2020 7:17 pm : link
I believe his point was picking back up a 3rd by trading down to 5-7 in round 1.
This is how I would like to see the first three rounds fall  
Jay on the Island : 1/23/2020 7:25 pm : link
1st LB Isaiah Simmons
2nd OT Austin Jackson
3rd Comp - C Nick Harris
Dude, seriously?  
Klaatu : 1/23/2020 8:35 pm : link
You need to name names and project their costs. Last time I checked, I didn't see "Hog Mollies" on any list of UFA's.
RE: Dude, seriously?  
GFAN52 : 1/23/2020 8:43 pm : link
In comment 14791499 Klaatu said:
Quote:
You need to name names and project their costs. Last time I checked, I didn't see "Hog Mollies" on any list of UFA's.


Need to build the OL through the draft, not with FA's.
Don't talk so out in the open about NFL secrets  
Sneakers O'toole : 1/23/2020 8:49 pm : link
Like "acquire quality" o linemen. If the other 31 teams ever caught wind of that strategy!!!
RE: RE: Dude, seriously?  
Klaatu : 1/23/2020 8:51 pm : link
In comment 14791508 GFAN52 said:
Quote:
In comment 14791499 Klaatu said:


Quote:


You need to name names and project their costs. Last time I checked, I didn't see "Hog Mollies" on any list of UFA's.



Need to build the OL through the draft, not with FA's.


Probably should do both, but that's beside the point.
RE: FA Hog Mollies  
5BowlsSoon : 1/23/2020 10:05 pm : link
In comment 14791499 Klaatu said:
Quote:
You need to name names and project their costs. Last time I checked, I didn't see "Hog Mollies" on any list of UFA's.


You honestly didnít see one quality Hog Mollie who is a free agent? That seems odd....
RE: we don't have a pick in round three  
5BowlsSoon : 1/23/2020 10:09 pm : link
In comment 14791435 gidiefor said:
Quote:
we traded it away -- only have the comp pick


I assumed by trading back we would pick up a 2nd and 3rd pick. Do you think that is too much? It seems like Iíve read where that haul was gained in the past. Donít remember the source.
RE: This is how I would like to see the first three rounds fall  
5BowlsSoon : 1/23/2020 10:13 pm : link
In comment 14791446 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
1st LB Isaiah Simmons
2nd OT Austin Jackson
3rd Comp - C Nick Harris


So, you have us building our OL from the draft, taking two Hog Mollies from our first 3 picks.

Does this mean you donít see us picking up a Mollie in FA?
RE: RE: FA Hog Mollies  
Jim in Tampa : 1/24/2020 7:39 am : link
In comment 14791584 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
In comment 14791499 Klaatu said:


Quote:


You need to name names and project their costs. Last time I checked, I didn't see "Hog Mollies" on any list of UFA's.



You honestly didnít see one quality Hog Mollie who is a free agent? That seems odd....

I'm pretty sure his point was that an actual plan needs to provide the names of the players you recommend the Giants aquire.

You suggest that the Giants shouldÖ
-Pick up one quality Hog Mollie in free agency
-Pick up a quality linebacker or EDGE in free agency
-Draft two quality defensive players in round 2

But it isnít much of a plan if youíre not providing the names of the players youíd target.

Also, I'm curious. Are you playing a drinking game with yourself where you have to take a shot every time you type the words, "hog mollies"?
I really..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/24/2020 7:59 am : link
hope the "not too hard" comment is in jest.

The way I read a lot of plans like these, a lot of people think it really is easy to rebuild.
RE: RE: FA Hog Mollies  
Klaatu : 1/24/2020 8:06 am : link
In comment 14791584 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
In comment 14791499 Klaatu said:


Quote:


You need to name names and project their costs. Last time I checked, I didn't see "Hog Mollies" on any list of UFA's.



You honestly didnít see one quality Hog Mollie who is a free agent? That seems odd....


I see individual players, not hackneyed, banal labels for them. Your plan might as well go like this:

1. Fix the O-Line.
2. Fix the pass-rush.
3. Fix the secondary.

Yeah, that's not too hard I suppose.
RE: RE: RE: FA Hog Mollies  
ron mexico : 1/24/2020 8:26 am : link
In comment 14791749 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 14791584 5BowlsSoon said:


Quote:


In comment 14791499 Klaatu said:


Quote:


You need to name names and project their costs. Last time I checked, I didn't see "Hog Mollies" on any list of UFA's.



You honestly didnít see one quality Hog Mollie who is a free agent? That seems odd....



I see individual players, not hackneyed, banal labels for them. Your plan might as well go like this:

1. Fix the O-Line.
2. Fix the pass-rush.
3. Fix the secondary.

Yeah, that's not too hard I suppose.


on top of that we need depth everywhere. Shouldn't be a problem
Never ceases to amaze me  
Giantology : 1/24/2020 8:30 am : link
How many BBI posters give us their grand offseason plan or mock draft and then proceed to just list positions to fill on the roster instead of the actual names available. The true definition of fantasy football.
RE: I really..  
5BowlsSoon : 1/24/2020 8:37 am : link
In comment 14791743 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
hope the "not too hard" comment is in jest.

The way I read a lot of plans like these, a lot of people think it really is easy to rebuild.


Wasnít SF 4-12 last year?

My plan has inserted 6 new ďqualityĒ players....top 3 draft picks in rounds one and Two and 3 free agents. Adding six means we are subtracting our six worst players like Bethea, Remmmers, Halapio, Mayo, Bucannon, and possibly Solder or Ogletree (although Iím not convinced either is done).

Not to mention Adding quality instruction and accountability together with natural maturation I see no reason why we canít make a drastic upturn. I th8 k we both know there is a fine line between winning and losing. Many of our games were competitive and could have gone either way as we entered the 4th quarter.

Maybe I am being too optimistic and itís okay if you donít agree with me....to each his own.
Stop..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/24/2020 8:41 am : link
using SF as the comp.

They were 4-12 last year but had a core of defensive players there. They had been bad for several years and had acquired talent through high picks. Flowers and Apple are already gone.

The point is going from 4-12 to the SB can happen - it is an outlier and saying that a plan is "not too hard" is really foolish. Ignorant.

Stop minimizing how difficult it is to build a winner. And this thread is a perfect way to try and point to some seer abilities. Not giving specifics allows you to say "I gave the blueprint" if the team does succeed next season.
RE: Never ceases to amaze me  
5BowlsSoon : 1/24/2020 8:41 am : link
In comment 14791774 Giantology said:
Quote:
How many BBI posters give us their grand offseason plan or mock draft and then proceed to just list positions to fill on the roster instead of the actual names available. The true definition of fantasy football.


I didnít think the names was THAT important. I did mention Simmons because it is very feasible we draft him, but to predict what two guys we draft in round two is just not easy for me, especially knowing I havenít watched any college games. And as for an,omg the 2-3 free agents, well, I was assuming NY would go after the best guy for the buck, whoever that is. We all know we can use LB and Edge/DE help, so I assume it would come from that pool of guys. Same with the one Hog Mollie I hope we can pick up.
Itís not to hard to....  
5BowlsSoon : 1/24/2020 8:46 am : link
Add 5-6 new quality players to insert into your lineup (draft +FA)

Plus, the better coaching and maturation is natural.

Adding 5-6 new players +maturation +better coaching =not to hard (to me)
RE: RE: RE: RE: FA Hog Mollies  
5BowlsSoon : 1/24/2020 8:48 am : link
In comment 14791771 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14791749 Klaatu said:


Quote:


In comment 14791584 5BowlsSoon said:


Quote:


In comment 14791499 Klaatu said:


Quote:


You need to name names and project their costs. Last time I checked, I didn't see "Hog Mollies" on any list of UFA's.



You honestly didnít see one quality Hog Mollie who is a free agent? That seems odd....



I see individual players, not hackneyed, banal labels for them. Your plan might as well go like this:

1. Fix the O-Line.
2. Fix the pass-rush.
3. Fix the secondary.

Yeah, that's not too hard I suppose.



on top of that we need depth everywhere. Shouldn't be a problem


Donít you think most teams need depth everywhere? Do you think all these playoff teams have 53 all pros for their roster? As long as you have a salary cap, you have a bunch of guys who are bargain basement guys.
RE: Itís not to hard to....  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/24/2020 8:50 am : link
In comment 14791796 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
Add 5-6 new quality players to insert into your lineup (draft +FA)

Plus, the better coaching and maturation is natural.

Adding 5-6 new players +maturation +better coaching =not to hard (to me)


Time and again - it is shown to be extremely difficult. Not actually adding the players - adding the right ones.

Are you seriously trying to tell the board that building a competitive team is easy?
RE: RE: Never ceases to amaze me  
Giantology : 1/24/2020 8:52 am : link
In comment 14791791 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
In comment 14791774 Giantology said:


Quote:


How many BBI posters give us their grand offseason plan or mock draft and then proceed to just list positions to fill on the roster instead of the actual names available. The true definition of fantasy football.



I didnít think the names was THAT important. I did mention Simmons because it is very feasible we draft him, but to predict what two guys we draft in round two is just not easy for me, especially knowing I havenít watched any college games. And as for an,omg the 2-3 free agents, well, I was assuming NY would go after the best guy for the buck, whoever that is. We all know we can use LB and Edge/DE help, so I assume it would come from that pool of guys. Same with the one Hog Mollie I hope we can pick up.


So it's not easy for you to actually name the players who excel at the positions you want us to draft. And yet you think building up a competitive team is easy? Just plug and play with some free agent names that have good ratings on Madden? Use your fucking brain. There is a reason so few teams have consistent success.
"5BowlsSoon"  
Giantology : 1/24/2020 8:53 am : link
Has zero clue how hard it is to obtain "1 Bowl."
RE: RE: Itís not to hard to....  
5BowlsSoon : 1/24/2020 9:02 am : link
In comment 14791800 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14791796 5BowlsSoon said:


Quote:


Add 5-6 new quality players to insert into your lineup (draft +FA)

Plus, the better coaching and maturation is natural.

Adding 5-6 new players +maturation +better coaching =not to hard (to me)



Time and again - it is shown to be extremely difficult. Not actually adding the players - adding the right ones.

Are you seriously trying to tell the board that building a competitive team is easy?


Hey Fats, I think you and I have said enough here....why donít we just let this One go.....you seem to want to make this thread a tug of war because it doesnít suit your way of thinking. I think I have explained my intentions pretty clearly....if you still canít see it or agree with it, itís okay...Iím not trying to seek your approval....just looking for Meaningful dialog....I get what you are saying....ITS NOT EASY TO ALL OF A SUDDEN GO FROM 4-12 to a PLAYOFF CONTENDER OVERNIGHT.....point taken....I think we can and I stated my reasons for saying such.....time to move forward!

Why are you..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/24/2020 9:10 am : link
saying this is a "tug of war" because it doesn't suit my way of thinking?

I'm just pointing out that it is a foolish take to say it is easy to build a team. That doesn't spur meaningful dialog - it minimizes the effort that every team in the NFL is trying to accomplish. You don't just add a set number of players and become better.

The bigger question - is why are you ignoring that point, and why are you singling me out from the other posters that are basically saying you are being foolish here?
5BowlsSoon, if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.  
Klaatu : 1/24/2020 9:30 am : link
You made your plan, then you wanted to know what we thought about it. Well, doom on you, some of us didn't think too highly of it, myself included. Tough shit. Stop playing the victim and go back to the drawing board.
just using the term "Hog Mollies" makes me not want to  
GuzzaBlue : 1/24/2020 9:59 am : link
read the rest. And then abbreviating that to "Mollies" pretty much has you lose all your credibility.
Okudah  
GuzzaBlue : 1/24/2020 10:08 am : link
This is the guy I'm really hoping is there. I think this turns an average secondary, to what could be top 10 in the league in the near future...and young be it that. Plus corners garner a lot of money in FA, so would be wise to draft especially at one of the premier spots where you can get a blue chip talent. The OL prospects all seem to carry a bit of risk and IMO not worth the 4th pick especially in our situation where we are trying to mitigate risk. You want a low risk, high ceiling guy there and IMO that is Okudah (if he is there)

Hopefully we could find solid value in an OL in round two and pick up a WR on day 2 or 3.

I am not in the Simmons camp. Sy made a great point about him. He has very similar skill set to Peppers. I don't want a jack of all trades at 4, where you are trying to fit him in a spot on the defense. I want a guy who is NFL built or is highly skilled at his specific position trait (Okudah, Young, ect)
why would you include "Big George" in any discussion  
The Turk : 1/24/2020 10:17 am : link
7th round pick who spent the season on IR
RE: Okudah  
5BowlsSoon : 1/24/2020 11:08 am : link
In comment 14791945 GuzzaBlue said:
Quote:
This is the guy I'm really hoping is there. I think this turns an average secondary, to what could be top 10 in the league in the near future...and young be it that. Plus corners garner a lot of money in FA, so would be wise to draft especially at one of the premier spots where you can get a blue chip talent. The OL prospects all seem to carry a bit of risk and IMO not worth the 4th pick especially in our situation where we are trying to mitigate risk. You want a low risk, high ceiling guy there and IMO that is Okudah (if he is there)

Hopefully we could find solid value in an OL in round two and pick up a WR on day 2 or 3.

I am not in the Simmons camp. Sy made a great point about him. He has very similar skill set to Peppers. I don't want a jack of all trades at 4, where you are trying to fit him in a spot on the defense. I want a guy who is NFL built or is highly skilled at his specific position trait (Okudah, Young, ect)


If the Lions trade out you may have your wish. I would be ecstatic too to get him over Simmons, but both are fine by me.
RE: why would you include  
5BowlsSoon : 1/24/2020 11:12 am : link
In comment 14791964 The Turk said:
Quote:
7th round pick who spent the season on IR


I just have a good feeling about this guy. As I recall, we have had Undrafted free agents play very well on the line....so just because he is a 7th pick doesnít doom him to mediocrity.
RE: 5BowlsSoon, if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.  
5BowlsSoon : 1/24/2020 11:22 am : link
In comment 14791879 Klaatu said:
Quote:
You made your plan, then you wanted to know what we thought about it. Well, doom on you, some of us didn't think too highly of it, myself included. Tough shit. Stop playing the victim and go back to the drawing board.


Like I have said a few times, I donít mind if people, like you and Fats donít agree with my plan to make us playoff bound. If you donít think Adding 5-6 new quality guys picked up in FA and the draft is enough for our new teachers to mold, together with the guys we do have, then fine by me. Obviously we think differently, and that is fine by me too. I donít need your approval as Iím sure you donít need mine.

And, I would even be interested in knowing what you think (And Fats too) we need to do to be a playoff team. A lot of times, I see guys here who like to criticize ones suggestions hardly or never give any solutions.

Oh, and Iím sure the Fatman thanks you for watching his back...that was friendly of you.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: FA Hog Mollies  
ron mexico : 1/24/2020 11:26 am : link
In comment 14791797 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
In comment 14791771 ron mexico said:


Quote:


In comment 14791749 Klaatu said:


Quote:


In comment 14791584 5BowlsSoon said:


Quote:


In comment 14791499 Klaatu said:


Quote:


You need to name names and project their costs. Last time I checked, I didn't see "Hog Mollies" on any list of UFA's.



You honestly didnít see one quality Hog Mollie who is a free agent? That seems odd....



I see individual players, not hackneyed, banal labels for them. Your plan might as well go like this:

1. Fix the O-Line.
2. Fix the pass-rush.
3. Fix the secondary.

Yeah, that's not too hard I suppose.



on top of that we need depth everywhere. Shouldn't be a problem



Donít you think most teams need depth everywhere? Do you think all these playoff teams have 53 all pros for their roster? As long as you have a salary cap, you have a bunch of guys who are bargain basement guys.


I think currently our depth is garbage. The bottom 15-20 would have a hard time making another teams roster.

Cant say I've looked at it extensively, but I'd wager the back end of SF or KCs roster is much much better than ours.
RE: RE: 5BowlsSoon, if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.  
Klaatu : 1/24/2020 12:56 pm : link
In comment 14792119 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
In comment 14791879 Klaatu said:


Quote:


You made your plan, then you wanted to know what we thought about it. Well, doom on you, some of us didn't think too highly of it, myself included. Tough shit. Stop playing the victim and go back to the drawing board.



Like I have said a few times, I donít mind if people, like you and Fats donít agree with my plan to make us playoff bound. If you donít think Adding 5-6 new quality guys picked up in FA and the draft is enough for our new teachers to mold, together with the guys we do have, then fine by me. Obviously we think differently, and that is fine by me too. I donít need your approval as Iím sure you donít need mine.

And, I would even be interested in knowing what you think (And Fats too) we need to do to be a playoff team. A lot of times, I see guys here who like to criticize ones suggestions hardly or never give any solutions.

Oh, and Iím sure the Fatman thanks you for watching his back...that was friendly of you.


That's pure, unadulterated bullshit on your part. Your plan was an absolute joke...nothing but a nebulous, pie-in-the-sky wish list littered with banalities and overly-used cliche's without any real specifics.

As I said, go back to the drawing board. Come up with a real plan, a substantive plan, not something childishly incorporeal. I'm sure every bad team would like to add "5-6 new quality guys picked up in FA and the draft." So who are they? How much will they cost? How do we draft those we can't sign in free agency? How will they mesh with the players we're going to keep? Who'll get cut? Who could (or should) get traded, and what could we get in return?

It's not that we don't "think differently." You don't think at all, not seriously or logically. Instead you fantasize about "Hog Mollies," you make outlandish projections about unproven players, and you fixate on random bits of "coachspeak" as if they somehow justify your lack of specificity. It's laughable.

And no, you don't need my approval. But you did ask for opinions on your grand plan, and when you didn't like what you heard, instead of tackling the criticism head-on, you reverted to playing the victim...as if the criticism was unjustified and unwarranted.

You want "solutions?" Go back and read some of what I've written over the past several weeks with regards to free agency and the draft. You'll find my "solutions" stated clearly many times.
Is a Hog Mollie..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/24/2020 1:14 pm : link
any lineman?

Because we could sign an average sized guy and as long as he's good - I could give a shit.

Klaatu summed it up very well. Who the fuck doesn't want to sign "5-6 quality guys"??

Hey, can we get some mediocre players in here?

Just OK is not OK.
RE: Bottom 15-20  
5BowlsSoon : 1/24/2020 1:22 pm : link
In comment 14792141 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14791797 5BowlsSoon said:


Quote:


In comment 14791771 ron mexico said:


Quote:


In comment 14791749 Klaatu said:


Quote:


In comment 14791584 5BowlsSoon said:


Quote:


In comment 14791499 Klaatu said:


Quote:


You need to name names and project their costs. Last time I checked, I didn't see "Hog Mollies" on any list of UFA's.



You honestly didnít see one quality Hog Mollie who is a free agent? That seems odd....



I see individual players, not hackneyed, banal labels for them. Your plan might as well go like this:

1. Fix the O-Line.
2. Fix the pass-rush.
3. Fix the secondary.

Yeah, that's not too hard I suppose.



on top of that we need depth everywhere. Shouldn't be a problem



Donít you think most teams need depth everywhere? Do you think all these playoff teams have 53 all pros for their roster? As long as you have a salary cap, you have a bunch of guys who are bargain basement guys.



I think currently our depth is garbage. The bottom 15-20 would have a hard time making another teams roster.

Cant say I've looked at it extensively, but I'd wager the back end of SF or KCs roster is much much better than ours.


Your comment here about our bottom 15 made me think of how upset I can get seeing who we let go at the 53 cut day. If our bottom 15 are that useless, you would think I should not be so upset to cut a few of those useless guys......but I do! I guess I just donít see them as being useless like you do. Winning only 4 games, maybe they are.
Any of those guys you were upset about  
ron mexico : 1/24/2020 1:41 pm : link
Do anything this year?
RE: Any of those guys you were upset about  
5BowlsSoon : 1/24/2020 2:07 pm : link
In comment 14792483 ron mexico said:
Quote:
Do anything this year?


I donít think so. I think only Tauaefa actually got to play a bit on our team...Scott also a few games.

Many of them who were cut were added to our PS, so that made me feel better.
DScott, RWhite, CSlayton, Conrad, Tauaefa, Carlock, Simonson, Alonzo Russell, AWesley

The guys I listed were all cut at cut day or thereabouts....as you can see, most are very young and showed some promise. I like rooting for the young guys to make it.
I've got a plan too  
USAF NYG Fan : 1/24/2020 2:11 pm : link
1. Let's sign a high quality FA RT who's still young to a team friendly deal.
2. Sign a young double digit sack pass rushing FA who's a die hard Giants fan and doesn't care about money. 4-3 or 3-4, it doesn't matter because pass rushers are all the same.
3. Sign a durable FA OC that doesn't ever get pushed around. One that's great in the run and pass game.
4. Re-sign all of our own good to great FA's and they will take cheap contracts so they don't have to leave NY.
5. Draft a LT in the 1st round that's elite from day 1 after trading down and picking up (insert absurd number of picks here). I know we can do it because http://www.bullcrap.com said that's the going rate. Doesn't matter how many other OTs were already picked ahead of him either. He will be great simply because he was picked in the 1st round.
6. Pick 1st round talent defenders with the remaining 2nd and 3rd round picks. The players that fall in the draft without a good reason always happen to be the players we need.

GENIUS! You heard it from me first. If they don't do this it's their own fault for losing. I have practically handed them the keys to city here.
There were..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/24/2020 3:17 pm : link
posters who wanted Hilliman to make the roster. Then when he played and sucked, they wanted him immediately off the team. Consistency isn't really a string suit.
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