Now, I know there are many years until he can get into Canton. However, for those who say that his regular season winning percentage should prevent him from getting into the Hall, how did Fouts get in? Im not asking for insults and such, just some good debate.
I know that they played in different ages of the game, but if stats are part of the process, lets take a look:
Dan Fouts had a record of 86-84-1, 3 division titles
Eli Manning a record of 117-117, 2 division titles, 2 super bowl titles and 2 super bowl MVPs
Dan Fouts - 254 TDs and 242 INTs, 43,000 yards, 476 yards rushing with 13 TDs, 58.8 completion %
Eli Manning - 366 TDs, 244 INTs, 57,000 yards, 567 yards rushing and 7 TDs, 60.3 completion %
Add to this how Eli NEVER missed games because of injury where Fouts missed numerous I believe.
I am not knocking Dan Fouts by any stretch because he certainly had his accolades and such. My point with this is that I don't understand why people believe that he was worthy and Eli wouldn't be. Maybe I am 100% off base but I figured this would be interesting to discuss.
Anyways, he was before my time so I can't really speak about him.
Record: 102-101
TD/INT : 291 TDs and 233 INTs, 49000 yards
Exactly....the arsenal is there stats wise for him to get in. It just seems like he will always have his haters
Fouts would throw for 6K yards in today's game. He was a prolific thrower of the ball.
Record: 102-101
TD/INT : 291 TDs and 233 INTs, 49000 yards
Moon didn't get to the NFL until he was like 29. He was in Canada because the NFL still didn't trust black QBs.
One of the great throwers of a football ever.
And he was league MVP one year and 2X AFC offensive player of the year...
He was great.
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Warren Moon -
Record: 102-101
TD/INT : 291 TDs and 233 INTs, 49000 yards
Moon didn't get to the NFL until he was like 29. He was in Canada because the NFL still didn't trust black QBs.
One of the great throwers of a football ever.
You throw in his CFL numbers and it's not close.
Back then you could lay the smackdown on WR's & QB's alike, too.
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In comment 14793031 GloryDayz said:
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Warren Moon -
Record: 102-101
TD/INT : 291 TDs and 233 INTs, 49000 yards
Moon didn't get to the NFL until he was like 29. He was in Canada because the NFL still didn't trust black QBs.
One of the great throwers of a football ever.
You throw in his CFL numbers and it's not close.
Throw in Eli’s college numbers..........
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In comment 14793053 bw in dc said:
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In comment 14793031 GloryDayz said:
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Warren Moon -
Record: 102-101
TD/INT : 291 TDs and 233 INTs, 49000 yards
Moon didn't get to the NFL until he was like 29. He was in Canada because the NFL still didn't trust black QBs.
One of the great throwers of a football ever.
You throw in his CFL numbers and it's not close.
Throw in Eli’s college numbers..........
Why would you throw in college numbers when we're comparing professional numbers?
Eli and the Giants' offense never had a corresponding period.
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Warren Moon -
Record: 102-101
TD/INT : 291 TDs and 233 INTs, 49000 yards
Moon didn't get to the NFL until he was like 29. He was in Canada because the NFL still didn't trust black QBs.
One of the great throwers of a football ever.
Yeah I’m aware of Moon’s time in Canada, but 200+ games in the NFL is still an ample size to make a comparison, not in terms of yardage (different era, less time spent in NFL), but the win percentage & the TD:INT ratio is comparable, and it is these 2 parameters that everybody against Eli in the HOF brings up.
Yeah, sounds like the front offices for those teams did a horrible job of building a team around Moon and Fouts.
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And Moon are ignoring is the win/loss record. Nobody doubts those two were great. But the knock on Eli is his win/loss record. He’s top 10 in all the important stats of his era. And those guys have great stats for their era. Their win/loss records are all pretty close. Meaning Eli should be in if those guys win records didn’t keep them out.
Yeah, sounds like the front offices for those teams did a horrible job of building a team around Moon and Fouts.
I was curious, so I thought I would go check. Here are the Chargers' defensive rankings on total yards allowed and points allowed per game. The number in parentheses is the total number of teams in the league at the time.
SD CHARGERS DEFENSIVE RANKINGS
1973: 22, 24 (26)
1974: 26, 19 (26)
1975: 23, 20 (26)
1976: 22, 18 (28)
1977: 6, 6 (28) Fouts injured most of the year, only played 4 games, team went 7-7
1978: 8, 21 (28) team went 9-7
1979: 5, 2 (28) Fouts was 1st team All-Pro, team went 12-4, 0-1 in playoffs, lost in div round)
1980: 6, 18 (28) team went 11-5, 1-1 in playoffs, lost in conf champ)
1981: 27, 26 (28) team went 10-6, 1-1 in playoffs, lost in conf champ
1982: 25, 24 (28) Fouts 1st team All-Pro, team went 6-3, 1-1 in playoffs, lost in div round)
1983: 26, 28 (28)
1984: 26, 24 (28)
1985: 28, 25 (28)
1986: 23, 24 (28)
1987: 15, 15 (28)
So there you have it with Fouts. Most of his career, the Chargers had a terrible defense and only made the playoffs four times in his career. As for outside the years I mentioned, the Chargers were 15-40-1 from 1973 to 1976 and 33-46 from 1983 to 1987.
It's like +/- stat in hockey. It tells you nothing. Do you mean to tell me that guys like Trent Dilfer, David Woodley, Vince Ferragamo, Rex Grossman, etc. were better QBs because they played in Super Bowls and Fouts didn't?
It's a stat worth noting because the QB touches the ball more than anyone outside the center and the referee. But you are right, it does get over-played.
It's like +/- stat in hockey. It tells you nothing. Do you mean to tell me that guys like Trent Dilfer, David Woodley, Vince Ferragamo, Rex Grossman, etc. were better QBs because they played in Super Bowls and Fouts didn't?
I agree, but you can't have it both ways. If you want to seriously consider SB wins towards a QB's HOF value, you have to look at W/L record as well.
I think both are fairly minor points for HOF qualification, but there are a lot of people who are basically, "Two SB wins, so he should be in"
Fouts took a bit a time to find his ways in the NFL but much of that was because the passing game in the 1970s was only starting to become a thing.
By the late 1970s though Fouts was lighting up defenses with his game. In fact, he was probably the biggest weapon at QB in the entire league until Marino showed up. Like Eli, he threw his fair share of picks and played on a plenty of flawed teams.
Eli has his 2 rings which is the nice trumpcard.
But if you are asking me to choose up sides, I am picking Fouts all else being equal...
https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=590235 - ( New Window )
But he's an HOF lock now from all I have listened to the past few days, because his highs were truly magnificent and included two of the most iconic playoff runs in playoff history, twice beating the two headed beast of Brady and Belichick, knocking off the 18-0 Pats, iconic two minute drives, iconic playoff plays, and the staggeringly heroic performances he put up in two NFC CCS in brutal outdoor playing conditions.
Then his iron man ability, which wasn't only luck of not getting injured, but - as his brother Peyton acknowledge me - playing through shoulder and foot injuries and never, to this day, uttering a peep about it.
Again, it's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of DVAR or whatever.