for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

The NYG coaches Eli thanked - Coughlin & Gilbride

Sean : 1/24/2020 8:11 pm
What I found most refreshing about the Eli presser today, it was short & to the point. Eli didn’t thank every offensive coach here, not McAdoo or Shurmur. Coughlin & Gilbride were huge in Eli’s career & it’s no coincidence they yielded the best results.

It was an absolute thing of beauty when Eli was humming in the Gilbride offense. I think of the game in Seattle in 2010 (I think it was a 42-7 win), the offense was just lethal that day. Removing Gilbride led to a lot of crappy years, but when Coughlin/Gilbride/Eli we’re all humming, it was so fun to watch.
That was a ballsy trio.  
bceagle05 : 1/24/2020 8:15 pm : link
The legendary Manningham play was a great throw and catch, but how bout the guts to go for the jugular on the first play of that drive, in the shadow of your own goal post? Always loved that about the title teams - not the most talented, but no fear whatsoever.
The Gilbride offense was perfect for Eli  
eric2425ny : 1/24/2020 8:35 pm : link
the unfortunate thing was that Reese’s inability to replenish Accorsi’s offensive line led to Gilbride and Coughlin getting scapegoated. Gilbride’s offense required the QB to have at least 3-4 seconds to make a read downfield.

They then moved the the WCO to try and mask the awful line since it instituted mostly short drops and throws within 2 seconds. Ruined the “back nine” of Eli’s career as Reese called it.

Going to miss Eli, just wish they would have surrounded him with more talent in the second half of his career.
ELI is a straight shooter  
TMS : 1/24/2020 8:52 pm : link
Guess he sees it that way, His call as I see it.
RE: The Gilbride offense was perfect for Eli  
Jay on the Island : 1/24/2020 8:54 pm : link
In comment 14793104 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
the unfortunate thing was that Reese’s inability to replenish Accorsi’s offensive line led to Gilbride and Coughlin getting scapegoated. Gilbride’s offense required the QB to have at least 3-4 seconds to make a read downfield.

They then moved the the WCO to try and mask the awful line since it instituted mostly short drops and throws within 2 seconds. Ruined the “back nine” of Eli’s career as Reese called it.

Going to miss Eli, just wish they would have surrounded him with more talent in the second half of his career.

It's a shame they never hired Norv Turner to be the OC when Eli was in his prime. I've always thought that Turner's offense was perfect for Eli.
As well as leaving out McAdoo and Shurmer  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 1/24/2020 9:09 pm : link
Eli also left out Reese and Gettleman and every offensive coordinator after Gilbride.
Gilbride got so much undeserved S here.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/24/2020 9:13 pm : link
Dude was only OC for 2 Super Bowl winning teams.
.  
Banks : 1/24/2020 9:55 pm : link
People killed Gilbride arguably more than any other coach here and for so many years a large amount of posters stated that the Gilbride offense was holding Eli back and salivated at the thought of Eli running a WCO... Now Gilbride is getting the love he never got back when he was coach.

RE: .  
Johnny5 : 1/24/2020 10:39 pm : link
In comment 14793200 Banks said:
Quote:
People killed Gilbride arguably more than any other coach here and for so many years a large amount of posters stated that the Gilbride offense was holding Eli back and salivated at the thought of Eli running a WCO... Now Gilbride is getting the love he never got back when he was coach.


I never had a problem with Gilbride, but In hindsight for anyone bashing his system I would think (BY NOW) it has crystallized that we have not had the horses on the OL since 2012.
Since 2012????  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/25/2020 2:35 am : link
What, you saw horses blocking for Eli vs the 9ers in the 2011 NFC CG?

The horses had clearly left the barn before then. That team was 31st or 32nd in the league in regular season rushing yards, and they damn near got Eli killed.
Probably an ultra subtle shot  
GiantTuff1 : 1/25/2020 7:35 am : link
to the organization that they should never have been replaced either.
RE: The Gilbride offense was perfect for Eli  
GiantTuff1 : 1/25/2020 8:00 am : link
In comment 14793104 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
the unfortunate thing was that Reese’s inability to replenish Accorsi’s offensive line led to Gilbride and Coughlin getting scapegoated. Gilbride’s offense required the QB to have at least 3-4 seconds to make a read downfield.

They then moved the the WCO to try and mask the awful line since it instituted mostly short drops and throws within 2 seconds. Ruined the “back nine” of Eli’s career as Reese called it.

Going to miss Eli, just wish they would have surrounded him with more talent in the second half of his career.


This is closer to the truth.

I admit that I was one of those that was wrong.
I wanted to see Eli in a different offense and thought if he ran something more rhythmic and less reliant on the option routes -- which lets face it did result in a lot of WTF plays -- that Eli would be even better. I didn't necessarily (or at all) want a pure WCO as that's not a NYG style, just something different. Norv's offense would have been ideal.

As WTF as the Cough-bride offense could be at times, and with a poor O-line bad results were especially pronounced, but it did result in some of the greatest successes imaginable and was indefensible when running optimally. I now admit that was probably Eli's perfect system, for the type of QB he is.. and I was wrong about that. The sad part is after the 2011 SB they didn't have the o-line to adequately run that system, and in 2013 the wheels fell off. Eli threw for 18 td's 27 ints and less than 4,000 yards that year.

It's funny cause when McAdoo came I think he helped tailor Coughlin's offense to have less reliance on the option routes, and it was Eli's best statistical seasons, despite the o-line still not being good. The thing was this combo system still retained Coughlin's penchant for down the field throwing. After having an abysmal season in 2013 Eli goes:
2014: 4,410 yards, 30 td, 14 int
2015: 4,432 yards, 35 td, 14 int

Those represented 2 of Eli's 3 seasons at 30 TD's or higher. The other was 2010 when he threw 31 td, but 27 int's. There was a case to be made that it was the right move as he seemed revived, as was public perception of him, even if the record wasn't

It's strange though cause 2014 and 2015 were great statistical years, but the Giants defense was really bad, so a lot of that was done playing from way behind, so the numbers are inflated. Plus, the numbers can be prettier in a WCO, but the results are less effective and the results indicate it. I honestly think looking back now Cough-bride's systems are one of the major reasons we beat the Pats. No f'n way we beat Belechik's Pats running a WCO, it's so much easier to defense for grand chess masters.

I think if the Giants stuck with a version of that 2014 / 2015 offense, kept Coughlin and better rebuilt the o-line and the defense, we could have had a little better ending for Eli.

I know Coughlin's time was running out, but I think he and Eli deserved to finish together.
The biggest crime of all was forcing Eli into a pure WCO the final 3 years of his career, and of course letting Reese and Ross consistently whiff on players and put the absolute dregs in front of Eli to "protect" him.

What could have been.



With all the killdrive crap....  
nzyme : 1/25/2020 8:33 am : link
When you look back now we all know it was the damn roster. Four players left on the roster that we drafted at the end of the Reese era... FOUR! What a horrible job by that group! Crippled Eli’s career and this franchise.
The thing about the WCO  
Matt M. : 1/25/2020 8:58 am : link
Eli, actually had 2 very good seasons with McAdoo as OC. When he moved to HC, but continued calling plays, the offense was very different.

Under Shurmer, the entire team just sucked. Bad coach, bad staff, bad personnel.
Where is that  
Joey in VA : 1/25/2020 9:46 am : link
Clueless douchebag Josh in the City who hated Gilbride, the guy who led the best offensive era in this team's history. How's it been since he left you little know nothing?
Jerry Reese and Marc Ross  
BigBlueCane : 1/25/2020 9:50 am : link
should be brought up on charges for mal-practice and fraud.
Gildbride  
Blueblue : 1/25/2020 10:16 am : link
Was a very good OC but was stubborn. My problem was with how he never tried to adjust his approach once the FO failed at maintaining a oline.
His offense wouldn't work anymore....  
Kanavis : 1/25/2020 11:04 am : link
It was predicated on pre snap reads and long developing plays. The Giant lines have been very poor but oline play has deteriorated everywhere (even if not as much). Has they really stocked the line it could have worked for a year or two more but by then the defenses weren't up to it.

Great coach for those runs. But that system wouldn't work now.
Reese and Ross rightfully get most of the blame for not finding  
Ivan15 : 1/25/2020 10:10 pm : link
O-linemen but they did try.

Draft picks didn’t pan out but the Giants did get some FA linemen who played better or are playing better since they moved on.

That is some indictment of coaches for not developing the players brought in by Reese into at least serviceable players.
In a perfect world, DG would have replaced Reese instead of moving  
Ivan15 : 1/25/2020 10:13 pm : link
On to Carolina and Gilbride would have stayed.
At least DG would have valued linemen over cornerbacks and WRS.  
Ivan15 : 1/25/2020 10:15 pm : link
.
Gilbride  
Mike in NY : 1/25/2020 11:07 pm : link
A good OC would have adjusted to the talent we had rather than lamenting about what we lacked. Don’t get me wrong, Marc Ross really screwed our franchise over with some horrible drafts, but Gilbride was not developing younger guys after Cruz, Nicks got hurt.
RE: Since 2012????  
Johnny5 : 1/27/2020 10:12 am : link
In comment 14793294 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
What, you saw horses blocking for Eli vs the 9ers in the 2011 NFC CG?

The horses had clearly left the barn before then. That team was 31st or 32nd in the league in regular season rushing yards, and they damn near got Eli killed.

lol true, I was giving that 2011 SB OL the benefit of a final resurgence. That SF defense was a hella tall order for any OL.
I thought moving to the WCO was monumentally stupid  
widmerseyebrow : 1/27/2020 10:19 am : link
at the time, and it's been proven out since then. Half this board thought throwing quick slants would solve our offensive line problems at the time. Aside from the fact that my football team was being ruined, I was quite pleased that McAdoo gave the fans quick slants in droves.
Ah yes, Gilbride was not developing, his offense was too complex, etc.  
widmerseyebrow : 1/27/2020 10:24 am : link
So complex that Mario Manningham (wonderlic score: 6) thrived in it when healthy.

Amazing to think that after Steve Smith, Domenik Hixon, Victor Cruz, MM, Nicks, et al, that we lost faith in Gilbride's ability to develop receivers because of Reuben fucking Randal.
RE: Gilbride got so much undeserved S here.  
PatersonPlank : 1/27/2020 11:01 am : link
In comment 14793161 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Dude was only OC for 2 Super Bowl winning teams.


Plus he was the architect of one of the most prolific offenses in history, the early 1990's Oilers with Moon. Gilbride was a very good OC.
RE: RE: Gilbride got so much undeserved S here.  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/27/2020 11:10 am : link
In comment 14795235 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 14793161 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Dude was only OC for 2 Super Bowl winning teams.



Plus he was the architect of one of the most prolific offenses in history, the early 1990's Oilers with Moon. Gilbride was a very good OC.


This is really overlooked. Buddy ryan developed a D that won the '85 Super Bowl and was an anchor for many teams after that, but Gilbride's system was wildly successful as well. If you look at the tenets of his offense, it was about finding big plays by attacking several areas of a defense and was predicated on having one of those areas exploit a weakness.

It required a QB to be able to read the D and see the weakness and a WR that could run a route to exploit that weakness, which is why communication issues were rampant. But there are many coaches who still look at that system as being indefensible, but it is so difficult to consistently run. It is why it left us with some maddening moments. It is also why I don't think many other QB's would have been as successful in it. Peyton, Brady and Brees probably could. I don't see Ben mastering it.
Gilbride's offense was a bit like a tempermental Italian sports car  
Greg from LI : 1/27/2020 11:18 am : link
When everything was working properly, it was a high performance machine, but everything had to be working perfectly or the whole thing would break down. It was a very complex offense.
to address the point of the OP  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/27/2020 11:53 am : link
I noticed that too. Eli only thanked two coaches, Coughlin and Gillbride. I think that was vintage Eli. He has always demonstrated that he knows how to understate his complaints.
Back to the Corner