watched tape of him the last few days and my god, the man is an absolute monster. He was throwing Clemson defenders around like rag dolls. Having him leading the way for Barkley could make our offense downright deadly.
If we can trade down 1 spot with the Dolphins, pick up a pick and maybe swap 3rds, that would be my ideal scenario.
I know everyone loves Chase Young, but I might be tempted to take Becton before young if both are there.
I want me some Becton
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I’d prefer to not draft a player at any position with warts at #4 overall.
Looking at the player rankings this early in the process from talent evaluators, BPA at 4 looks like it’ll be either Okudah from OSU or Jeudy from ‘Bama.
I’d take the CB.
Ogden and Tyron Smith had 'warts' too. Almost no prospect especially at Lt comes in to the pros without needing some level of refinement. Its the level of refinement needed and figuring out if he has the intangibles to make that improvement to play up to that talent level. In this case the potential or ceiling is so high that if he gets even close to that ceiling his level of play will be pro bowl level.
The advantage the Giants have is a coaching staff (Garrett and now Colombo) who have worked with great Dallas OL's. I'm confident if they invest high enough picks they will be developed properly.
Agree with this. I'd want either a big trade down or a double trade down, first with Miami or SD and then with a team like Jax.
My biggest fear of this draft is that DG will fall in "full bloom love" with an OT and force the pick at 4, when he likely could have had the same player (or another with an equal grade) by trading down.
Louisville seems to run to the opposite side of the line
Their most effective running plays are to the right
Becton does not look fast or quick and overruns his gaps
Becton also has difficulty with speed rushers
He does not set his feet all the time and relies on his strength and arm length to compensate
Louisville does play a pro set and I have seen Becton with his hand on the ground
But it is concerning that the majority of his snaps he is in a two point stance
This occurs even when the other linemen are in a three point stance
This suggests that Becton may have difficulty in getting out of a three point stance
Becton has great size and strength and can look dominating at times but it is not consistent
A good game to view is Louisville vs. Notre Dame
2019 tape? Here are a couple analysts who have watched a whole lot more of him than we probably have.
Draft Network - ( New Window )
Past that, it's understanding level of competition, seeing enough similar players and watching the whole play in addition to seeing the player's overall success FIRST, then re-watching to see why he's successful. For Daniel Jones for instance, I saw a loopy long ball that lacked zip as did many others but those passes were often on the money so was it lack of arm zip or just good ball placement? In this case it was his overall approach to the long ball which is a lot better than what we thought. The conventional thinking was he won't get away w/ that w/ NFL DBs but he has because it's not arm zip for him, it's his ability to be very accurate.
When it comes to OL play, quick feet or a good slide again is relative. Will that hold up vs. anyone or just who he's playing against? Is he playing up or down to who he's facing? That requires multiple opponents to watch against. For me it's mostly an eyeball test, I've been to NFL camps, I've seen it up close and to me that's the biggest difference, I feel like I know what it looks like more often than not. One of the things that fooled a lot of people, myself included with Flowers was that he had good feet for his size, but if you only watched his feet. If you watched his whole body you'd see some instability and clumsiness but when you're watching his feet you only see that.
Watching plays and games will give you a better overall view of a players performance, then you should focus on individual components of why. Don't turn on a clip and stare at feet, you'll see what you're looking for or not. Watch the entire performance, then go find reasons why. If the reasons are more one on one, you've got something.
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I’d prefer to not draft a player at any position with warts at #4 overall.
Looking at the player rankings this early in the process from talent evaluators, BPA at 4 looks like it’ll be either Okudah from OSU or Jeudy from ‘Bama.
I’d take the CB.
Ogden and Tyron Smith had 'warts' too. Almost no prospect especially at Lt comes in to the pros without needing some level of refinement. Its the level of refinement needed and figuring out if he has the intangibles to make that improvement to play up to that talent level. In this case the potential or ceiling is so high that if he gets even close to that ceiling his level of play will be pro bowl level.
Ogden didn’t really have any warts
So I am interested in the opinion he has on Becton. And as part of that, the question isn't only can he be a good OL, probably as an OT, but will he be the type of player the Giants want to use. A lot of posters have rightly admired San Fran's running attack and wanted something similar. But unless I'm mistaken, that running attack is based on OL with superior movement skills getting out and doing a lot of blocking in space on the 2nd level. And at least from what I've seen, that may not be something that Becton will be great at.
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Not that it means much, but I thought it was interesting that Drew Boylart was very down on Flowers (4th round grade), but very high on Becton (1st round grade). I'm curious to see how Sy'56 grades Becton. As I recall, he was pretty wary of Flowers pre-draft, too.
Flowers was the perfect profile, who upon further inspection, stunko pretty bad. Becton is still intriguing to me, I'll be curious to see his AA performance at the combine, that will go a long way in helping or hurting him.
If he preps for it ,it will show how serious he is and has the AA to wow if he keeps the weight in the 345-360 range.
He is not going to have Orlando Brown numbers.
So I am interested in the opinion he has on Becton. And as part of that, the question isn't only can he be a good OL, probably as an OT, but will he be the type of player the Giants want to use. A lot of posters have rightly admired San Fran's running attack and wanted something similar. But unless I'm mistaken, that running attack is based on OL with superior movement skills getting out and doing a lot of blocking in space on the 2nd level. And at least from what I've seen, that may not be something that Becton will be great at.
Here's Boylhart on Becton. Since it's posted for free I copied it all here for the sake of discussion.
Mekhi Becton OT Louisville
by Drew Boylhart • January 2, 2020
STRENGTHS
Mekhi is a big, powerful, pass blocker with a very quick first step. He is a pure Left Tackle because of his size, long arms and lateral quickness out of his stance. He shows on film the needed athleticism to be a dominating offensive lineman and a franchise Left Tackle. He is an excellent pass blocker with just enough nastiness to be a solid run blocker. When Mekhi is challenged he steps up to that challenge, not allowing his athleticism to overpower his techniques. He is smart and has quick enough feet to get out to the second level and make his blocks sealing the corner on sweeps and screens. Mekhi still has upside to his game and has more untapped potential than he shows at the college level to dominate.
CONCERNS
Mekhi shows some frustration during the game when he is up against some adversity. As the game goes on, and the losing sets in, Makhi will start pushing players in frustration and not staying with his blocks. Makhi has to learn to stay with his blocks, control his frustrations and learn to turn the page if he gets beat and not to get beat on the next play.
BOTTOM LINE 1.56
Mekhi could easily move up to be the first offensive lineman taken in the draft if as I suspect, his workouts are as good as I think they will be. His lack of patience on the field might be an issue that is attached to the run blocking scheme they use at Louisville and not to anything that is happening on the field. I think Mekhi might be frustrated when run blocking because he would like to just maul the crap out of the man in front of him instead of having to be in sync with his offensive lineman. There is no doubt in my mind that Makhi has not been challenged enough at the college level and will flourish with better coaching and challenges at the next level. But there is some doubt, as to how he will react to the need for him to be consistent in his play on the field and become more of a leader that his teammates can depend on when adversity hits during a game. Makhi could be as good as Redskins Trent Williams or…he could be as inconsistent as Bengals Cordy Glenn. Remember I do all of these profiles from film and film only and I’m convinced that in spite of my concerns of his play on the field that if I was to interview him that this concern would be brushed aside quickly. I think this kid will be more like Trent Williams and not like Cordy Glenn.
Link - ( New Window )
1. Heavy investment in the backfield last 2 years (Saquon at 2 and DJ at 6) and both were greatly impacted by poor OL play.
2. Garrett had a superior OL in Dallas and they invested 3 first round picks on OL his first four years as HC
3. Related to #2, Garrett's pass game and preference seems to favor a strong run game and a little more vertical passing game both of those aspects are greatly helped by stronger OL play especially at LT.
4. One of Gettleman's first and greatest proclamations upon becoming GM was the OL needs to be fixed. We are entering year 3 and while he has found 2 potential solutions at OG (Zietler/Hernendez) huge holes remain at OT where both Solder and Remmers have clearly lost a step (and at OC). He undoubtedly will want to be strong in addressing this but there is no FA LT out there that will likely be available for NYG.
5. DG seems to love the big powerful OL and Mekhi fits that profile to a T
6. LT is arguably the most important position on the OL and Jones has seemed to struggle a bit with awareness of peripheral pressure (Edge rush)
7. Quality LTs go very quickly in round 1. The percentages go down greatly to find a high level prospect in round 2 or below.
The guy I would take if forced to it is Wills. I think he's going to be a good OT at minimum although I'm not certain he would thrive at LT.
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Not that it means much, but I thought it was interesting that Drew Boylart was very down on Flowers (4th round grade), but very high on Becton (1st round grade). I'm curious to see how Sy'56 grades Becton. As I recall, he was pretty wary of Flowers pre-draft, too.
Flowers was the perfect profile, who upon further inspection, stunko pretty bad. Becton is still intriguing to me, I'll be curious to see his AA performance at the combine, that will go a long way in helping or hurting him.
No doubt.
For the record, I don't trust Boylhart any more or less than most other pundits, but I thought the difference in his reviews of Flowers and Becton was worth noting. Pretty big variance in his assessments.
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In comment 14794041 Klaatu said:
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Not that it means much, but I thought it was interesting that Drew Boylart was very down on Flowers (4th round grade), but very high on Becton (1st round grade). I'm curious to see how Sy'56 grades Becton. As I recall, he was pretty wary of Flowers pre-draft, too.
Flowers was the perfect profile, who upon further inspection, stunko pretty bad. Becton is still intriguing to me, I'll be curious to see his AA performance at the combine, that will go a long way in helping or hurting him.
No doubt.
For the record, I don't trust Boylhart any more or less than most other pundits, but I thought the difference in his reviews of Flowers and Becton was worth noting. Pretty big variance in his assessments.
Boylehart has some misses but he really nails some too.
Jeremiah is one of the best and he ranks Becton as his OL 1. Draftnetwork is effusive in their praise. Will be interesting to see what Brandt says.
Halapio healthy or not was terrible last year. Would rather see a vet in there like Thuney or McGovern . Would even prefer to try Gates there (who got reps last year at OC in practice) than Pio.
I like Becton, but he’s probably going to need some time to develop and I don’t think he’s worth a top 5 pick.
Thuney played alright but isn't much of a run blocker. Pats couldn't establish an inside running game to save their ass last year. Throw in a position switch and I'm not sold. Draft Ruiz in the second round and spend the free agent dollars on better players than him.
Thuney played alright but isn't much of a run blocker. Pats couldn't establish an inside running game to save their ass last year. Throw in a position switch and I'm not sold. Draft Ruiz in the second round and spend the free agent dollars on better players than him.
He's talking about the Broncos' Connor McGovern, who's also a Center.
I like Becton, but he’s probably going to need some time to develop and I don’t think he’s worth a top 5 pick.
Exactly. He is not worthy of the number 4 pick. Giants would be ridiculed picking him here when more than likely there are players available with higher value. He has upside but but needs development.
Thuney played alright but isn't much of a run blocker. Pats couldn't establish an inside running game to save their ass last year. Throw in a position switch and I'm not sold. Draft Ruiz in the second round and spend the free agent dollars on better players than him.
Too much youth on the OL if we add 2 rookies. And there is no vet LT that we can likely land without a surprise trade.
Like the OC crop in the draft but I'd prefer to go the vet route there. McGovern, Thuney, or even Gates there all offer more experience than a first year guy.
Look I really like Okudah. But an elite LT carries the same if not more value depending on system.
What we may want to run with Garrett /Jones/Barkley will need an even better OL potentially.
Secondly our secondary is very, very young already and we just spent a 1st rounder on a CB. I see the vet FA route for the other starting CB.
Summary - Mekhi Becton projects as a starting left tackle at the NFL level — and a damn good one. Becton has all the length and functional power in the world, pairing it with a rare blend of flexibility and size. Becton is a brawler in the run game and his pure size overwhelms many pass rushers off the edge. There are still some technique consistencies to still be ironed out but generally speaking the ceiling here is sky high and there's a foundation that should allow early production at LT.
Link - ( New Window )
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Red Flags - None
Summary - Mekhi Becton projects as a starting left tackle at the NFL level — and a damn good one. Becton has all the length and functional power in the world, pairing it with a rare blend of flexibility and size. Becton is a brawler in the run game and his pure size overwhelms many pass rushers off the edge. There are still some technique consistencies to still be ironed out but generally speaking the ceiling here is sky high and there's a foundation that should allow early production at LT.
Link - ( New Window )
So they rate him as the 4th best. Becton needs to show at the Combine and team workouts they he can control his weight, meaning he better show up in top shape.
Bechton is far from a slam dunk. He's not a blue chip prospect for a reason.
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Red Flags - None
Summary - Mekhi Becton projects as a starting left tackle at the NFL level — and a damn good one. Becton has all the length and functional power in the world, pairing it with a rare blend of flexibility and size. Becton is a brawler in the run game and his pure size overwhelms many pass rushers off the edge. There are still some technique consistencies to still be ironed out but generally speaking the ceiling here is sky high and there's a foundation that should allow early production at LT.
Link - ( New Window )
So they rate him as the 4th best. Becton needs to show at the Combine and team workouts they he can control his weight, meaning he better show up in top shape.
They rate him better than that and there are 3 main analysts that combine their takes at that site. They just recently updated their reports from prior to this years big improvement on tape.
McGovern isn't available, I addressed Thuney as a mediocre run blocker and not an OC and what has Gates done to warrant getting the inside track as starting OC?
> Simply not a fan of your 'plan' for the O-line. Reeks of disaster.
Bechton is far from a slam dunk. He's not a blue chip prospect for a reason.
New coaching this year and he's improved every year. You want a guy who you think WILL improve with continued coaching. Early indications are he isn't a Flowers who wasnt correctable or isn't likely to improve. That's the exciting part of this kid height,weight, arm length combination combined with fluidity of footwork at that size are off the charts. He also shows real intangible potential for continued improvement like Tyron Smith did (who was even more a project development wise than Becton).
McGovern isn't available, I addressed Thuney as a mediocre run blocker and not an OC and what has Gates done to warrant getting the inside track as starting OC?
> Simply not a fan of your 'plan' for the O-line. Reeks of disaster.
Both Gates and Thuney have had pro reps and conditioning. Both have also taken reps at the OC position at the pro level. Both are likely light years better than Pio and won't have as many growing pains and inconsistency like a rookie signal caller would. Not saying this is the ideal but likely better than either Pio or a rookie.
Also no idea where you are getting your McGovern info from but he is most definitely heading toward FA and not a lock to resign in Denver.
McGovern - ( New Window )
What IS interesting is that there are TWO Conor McGoverns in the NFL and they both play interior OL. Ones a FA from Denver the other is signed on the Cowboys. Go figure.
I have to do some homework on the Denver version. I'll get back to you.
What IS interesting is that there are TWO Conor McGoverns in the NFL and they both play interior OL. Ones a FA from Denver the other is signed on the Cowboys. Go figure.
I have to do some homework on the Denver version. I'll get back to you.
The OL doesn't have to be pro bowlers at every position but you can't have turnstiles or sieves at any position either. Last year 3 guys bordered on the turnstile or marshmellow it being Solder Remmers and Pio.
Thuney is better than you give him credit for IMO and Gates looks that way too. O' Hara was not a mauler by any stretch but a heady, smart center who knew his assignments. Thuney and Gates are really smart lineman who seem to 'get it' and could quite likely flourish at the OC spot.
Either would likely be a sizeable upgrade to Pio.
Do your homework on McGovern and get back to me. He isn't a pro bowler but he is an average to solid center who gets the job done more often than not. Don't think he has quite the upside of either Thuney or Gates at that position but he is more a proven quantity.
I would take ANY of these options over Pio again or Pulley and yes over a rookie especially if we add a rookie LT to the line.
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Zack Martin and Quentin Nelson weren’t worth their spots? This in our way means Becton should be the pick. Can’t use Flowers every time theories a T or G prospect who may be near the Giants slot.
To my eyes their floor was much higher than Becton's. Martin and Nelson were/are powerful, compact, agile, moved well and fast on traps and to second level. They had 'can't miss' written all over them. From little I've seen of Becton, he might have more upside but his floor could be a lot lower.
Apparently Jeremiah and others don't agree . I wouldn't call him can't miss but based on what we know I think he is less project and risk coming in than Tyron Smith who went 9 to the Cowboys. Combine and interviews should cement this.
Tyron Smith needed a year at RT before he transitioned and if you read the multiple write ups back then many said he was a bit raw but with tremendous upside.
I never said Becton is a finished product either. I even think Wills is more polished (just much lower ceiling). But I do not feel Becton is unpolished nor a long term project. The tools are so elite and He is just so powerful and smooth that he can still function at a decent or better level very early on. Jeremiah said as much in his report. He isn't a 2 -3 year project by any means .
He's bending at the waist because the rushers are trying like heck to avoid his reach entirely. Rushers don't try to attack him like they do 'normal' lineman. They are scared as heck of trying to bull rush or spin off him.
That can easily get cleaned up at the pro level where he'll get coached up to guard/manage his area better and let them come to him more often before mauling them.
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Better to have youth than spend on average talent that doesn't fit the role you're considering them for.
McGovern isn't available, I addressed Thuney as a mediocre run blocker and not an OC and what has Gates done to warrant getting the inside track as starting OC?
> Simply not a fan of your 'plan' for the O-line. Reeks of disaster.
Both Gates and Thuney have had pro reps and conditioning. Both have also taken reps at the OC position at the pro level. Both are likely light years better than Pio and won't have as many growing pains and inconsistency like a rookie signal caller would. Not saying this is the ideal but likely better than either Pio or a rookie.
Also no idea where you are getting your McGovern info from but he is most definitely heading toward FA and not a lock to resign in Denver. McGovern - ( New Window )
Yes please to McGovern. We need a real center.
1. Heavy investment in the backfield last 2 years (Saquon at 2 and DJ at 6) and both were greatly impacted by poor OL play.
2. Garrett had a superior OL in Dallas and they invested 3 first round picks on OL his first four years as HC
3. Related to #2, Garrett's pass game and preference seems to favor a strong run game and a little more vertical passing game both of those aspects are greatly helped by stronger OL play especially at LT.
4. One of Gettleman's first and greatest proclamations upon becoming GM was the OL needs to be fixed. We are entering year 3 and while he has found 2 potential solutions at OG (Zietler/Hernendez) huge holes remain at OT where both Solder and Remmers have clearly lost a step (and at OC). He undoubtedly will want to be strong in addressing this but there is no FA LT out there that will likely be available for NYG.
5. DG seems to love the big powerful OL and Mekhi fits that profile to a T
6. LT is arguably the most important position on the OL and Jones has seemed to struggle a bit with awareness of peripheral pressure (Edge rush)
7. Quality LTs go very quickly in round 1. The percentages go down greatly to find a high level prospect in round 2 or below.
Great. We're trudging towards the good old Jersey Joe list of the 7 ways to improve a team!! This should ramp up impressively in the next several weeks....
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People aren't exactly pulling the Flowers comparison out of their ass. I'm not sure how any Giants fan could watch this guy bending and lunging and not be reminded of Flowers.
Given the enormous upside I'd rather take the risk on Becton than Thomas, but I don't want a project at 4.
They'd be smarter to take Okudah.
Love Okudah but our secondary is extremely young . Also free agency is solidly stocked at CB. I see us stabilizing the secondary with a veteran vs. going with another very young player at the position.
Wills might be the most polished OT of them all but he doesn't have nearly the upside that Becton has.
good point about FA, our young secondary, and perhaps the right way to build back there. i was thinking the same thing a couple weeks ago when watching the championship game. okudah looks pretty special however. this is what makes team building and thus the offseason so fun.
This is what gets you in trouble with the draft. Its easy to fall for a player's size/measurable's. NFL is all about technique. Strength and size can make you elite in college, but the strength and speed of NFL players is so much greater than college. You will be consistently exposed in the NFL if you lack technique.
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In comment 14794007 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
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People aren't exactly pulling the Flowers comparison out of their ass. I'm not sure how any Giants fan could watch this guy bending and lunging and not be reminded of Flowers.
Given the enormous upside I'd rather take the risk on Becton than Thomas, but I don't want a project at 4.
They'd be smarter to take Okudah.
Love Okudah but our secondary is extremely young . Also free agency is solidly stocked at CB. I see us stabilizing the secondary with a veteran vs. going with another very young player at the position.
Wills might be the most polished OT of them all but he doesn't have nearly the upside that Becton has.
good point about FA, our young secondary, and perhaps the right way to build back there. i was thinking the same thing a couple weeks ago when watching the championship game. okudah looks pretty special however. this is what makes team building and thus the offseason so fun.
Agreed Okudah looks pretty special and may fall under the rare instant hogh level starter day 1 category. But I still think for the way the team is constructed a dominant LT helps us more overall. Why ? because there are two things that are very important to this team now with Barkley and Garrett : the run and the downfield passing game. We also have a QB (at least thus far) who has struggled a bit with peripheral pressure.
This again. For the first time in probably forever I was not shocked by a pick that seemed to shock nearly everyone, that being the jones pick last year. The reason why is simple, there weren’t that many players and possibilities to prepare for. Giants picked 5th it was either gonna be the qb or Allen. Then, just hyper focus on the senior bowl and collegiate play.
Even if you know everything about the giants they will surprise you in the draft. Just like every other team will. But if you examine the giants history and what seems to make them tick this time of year, you can usually see the high first round pick coming. It’s those latter picks where it gets really tough.