watched tape of him the last few days and my god, the man is an absolute monster. He was throwing Clemson defenders around like rag dolls. Having him leading the way for Barkley could make our offense downright deadly.
If we can trade down 1 spot with the Dolphins, pick up a pick and maybe swap 3rds, that would be my ideal scenario.
I know everyone loves Chase Young, but I might be tempted to take Becton before young if both are there.
I want me some Becton
As I said on the other thread, I am not in the least knowledgeable on OLine technique, but he seems overly aggressive in attempting to knock his man down instead of maintaining his block.
But, my Lord, is he powerful.
Forget about his size. Can he really play OT better than the other 3 top prospects?
Fire away.
They key for me would be what is he like off the field.
He has to be a kid who loves football, wants to win, and will work on his craft. A lot. In the NFL he will need to grow his game.
He can't be akin to Erik Flowers. Another big powerful kid who didn't have the best technique. Flowers somewhat hit his ceiling the day he walked into an NFL locker room.
Draft a def player at 4
Draft a center in rd 2
I’m starting to believe Simmons slept with your wife. This is getting ridiculous now. We get it. You don’t like Simmons. Is there a purpose for you to be on every single draft thread regurgitating the same thing? You’re the flag bearer for the anti Simmons crowd. Does that make you feel better? Seems to be what you’re striving for. This obsession has just gotten weird now.
They key for me would be what is he like off the field.
He has to be a kid who loves football, wants to win, and will work on his craft. A lot. In the NFL he will need to grow his game.
He can't be akin to Erik Flowers. Another big powerful kid who didn't have the best technique. Flowers somewhat hit his ceiling the day he walked into an NFL locker room.
Bingo! Flowers was DUMB AS ROCKS, lazy with no desire to improve. That combination will never work.
1. As I hope we learned from Erick Flowers - if your o-lineman isn't about technique x10, then be wary. If you watch Becton's early games last year his technique is pretty good. But as the year wore on, it got a lot worse. Yeah he was throwing guys around, but those aren't guys who'll be playing on Sundays and versus an NFL d-lineman I don't think his technique will hold up and I actually think he'll get pushed back way more.
2. It did look like he got heavier as the season wore on. He's listed at 368, which generally means he's heavier.
A) How many successful NFL lineman have played at that weight for a sustained period? B) what is the risk he's going to constantly be fined for being overweight causing discontent?
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He is almost super-human.
They key for me would be what is he like off the field.
He has to be a kid who loves football, wants to win, and will work on his craft. A lot. In the NFL he will need to grow his game.
He can't be akin to Erik Flowers. Another big powerful kid who didn't have the best technique. Flowers somewhat hit his ceiling the day he walked into an NFL locker room.
Bingo! Flowers was DUMB AS ROCKS, lazy with no desire to improve. That combination will never work.
This guy is far from Flowers. High work ethic and technique at tackle is better right now than Flowers ever was. Also supposedly very good character and high football IQ.
His comp from Jeremiah is McKinney and a few others said Ogden.
His effect on the offense would be two-fold:
1.Finally opening up some holes for Barkley to run through (vs. Barkley having to create everything himself) .
2. Protecting the blindside for a QB that thus far fixes his eyes downfield on vertical pass plays and has struggled with awareness of peripheral rush (pressure off the edges).
Draft a def player at 4
Draft a center in rd 2
Conklin is not a LT. In fact one of the only decent ones in FA is Castonzo and he is said to either remain in Indy or retire. We also have a Qb who doesn't have tremendous awareness of edge rush (at least thus far)
is your statement an endorsement or knock on Becton?
You're mellowing in your old age, dude.
Fire away.
Every situation is a case on its own. Very different case here. He is probably less of a project than Tyron Smith was. He is not a heavy development guy at all. Flowers was very technique deficient coming in and NYG erroneously thought it was coachable. There are sizeable strides in technique improvement throughout his career showing ability to get better and better.
Interesting to see what Brandt says too but Jeremiah and Boylehart are very high on Mekhi and I have come around to agree with what they are seeing. Draftnetwork has some lofty praise for him too.
Are you watching his junior tape or earlier? He made big strides this year in his first year adjusting to new coaching. I didn't see evidence of improvement like this at all with Flowers.
Looking at the player rankings this early in the process from talent evaluators, BPA at 4 looks like it’ll be either Okudah from OSU or Jeudy from ‘Bama.
I’d take the CB.
Some similarities with this kid.
This team has been desperate for OL for OVER a decade. They aren’t winning shit until it’s fixed. I wanted Martin over OBJ. This year we Will hear plenty divergent assessments of who we should pick. I want an All pro at 4. Find one Period. If Becton passes that test after the assessment great. How bad Flowers means nothing
Looking at the player rankings this early in the process from talent evaluators, BPA at 4 looks like it’ll be either Okudah from OSU or Jeudy from ‘Bama.
I’d take the CB.
Ogden and Tyron Smith had 'warts' too. Almost no prospect especially at Lt comes in to the pros without needing some level of refinement. Its the level of refinement needed and figuring out if he has the intangibles to make that improvement to play up to that talent level. In this case the potential or ceiling is so high that if he gets even close to that ceiling his level of play will be pro bowl level.
Flowers biggest problem IMO was his attitude. He didn't want to get better.
Given the enormous upside I'd rather take the risk on Becton than Thomas, but I don't want a project at 4.
They'd be smarter to take Okudah.
Flowers biggest problem IMO was his attitude. He didn't want to get better.
I'm not really sure how you'd be in a position to know that.
Louisville seems to run to the opposite side of the line
Their most effective running plays are to the right
Becton does not look fast or quick and overruns his gaps
Becton also has difficulty with speed rushers
He does not set his feet all the time and relies on his strength and arm length to compensate
Louisville does play a pro set and I have seen Becton with his hand on the ground
But it is concerning that the majority of his snaps he is in a two point stance
This occurs even when the other linemen are in a three point stance
This suggests that Becton may have difficulty in getting out of a three point stance
Becton has great size and strength and can look dominating at times but it is not consistent
A good game to view is Louisville vs. Notre Dame
Given the enormous upside I'd rather take the risk on Becton than Thomas, but I don't want a project at 4.
They'd be smarter to take Okudah.
Love Okudah but our secondary is extremely young . Also free agency is solidly stocked at CB. I see us stabilizing the secondary with a veteran vs. going with another very young player at the position.
Wills might be the most polished OT of them all but he doesn't have nearly the upside that Becton has.
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I’d prefer to not draft a player at any position with warts at #4 overall.
Looking at the player rankings this early in the process from talent evaluators, BPA at 4 looks like it’ll be either Okudah from OSU or Jeudy from ‘Bama.
I’d take the CB.
Ogden and Tyron Smith had 'warts' too. Almost no prospect especially at Lt comes in to the pros without needing some level of refinement. Its the level of refinement needed and figuring out if he has the intangibles to make that improvement to play up to that talent level. In this case the potential or ceiling is so high that if he gets even close to that ceiling his level of play will be pro bowl level.
The advantage the Giants have is a coaching staff (Garrett and now Colombo) who have worked with great Dallas OL's. I'm confident if they invest high enough picks they will be developed properly.
Agree with this. I'd want either a big trade down or a double trade down, first with Miami or SD and then with a team like Jax.
My biggest fear of this draft is that DG will fall in "full bloom love" with an OT and force the pick at 4, when he likely could have had the same player (or another with an equal grade) by trading down.
Louisville seems to run to the opposite side of the line
Their most effective running plays are to the right
Becton does not look fast or quick and overruns his gaps
Becton also has difficulty with speed rushers
He does not set his feet all the time and relies on his strength and arm length to compensate
Louisville does play a pro set and I have seen Becton with his hand on the ground
But it is concerning that the majority of his snaps he is in a two point stance
This occurs even when the other linemen are in a three point stance
This suggests that Becton may have difficulty in getting out of a three point stance
Becton has great size and strength and can look dominating at times but it is not consistent
A good game to view is Louisville vs. Notre Dame
2019 tape? Here are a couple analysts who have watched a whole lot more of him than we probably have.
Draft Network - ( New Window )
Past that, it's understanding level of competition, seeing enough similar players and watching the whole play in addition to seeing the player's overall success FIRST, then re-watching to see why he's successful. For Daniel Jones for instance, I saw a loopy long ball that lacked zip as did many others but those passes were often on the money so was it lack of arm zip or just good ball placement? In this case it was his overall approach to the long ball which is a lot better than what we thought. The conventional thinking was he won't get away w/ that w/ NFL DBs but he has because it's not arm zip for him, it's his ability to be very accurate.
When it comes to OL play, quick feet or a good slide again is relative. Will that hold up vs. anyone or just who he's playing against? Is he playing up or down to who he's facing? That requires multiple opponents to watch against. For me it's mostly an eyeball test, I've been to NFL camps, I've seen it up close and to me that's the biggest difference, I feel like I know what it looks like more often than not. One of the things that fooled a lot of people, myself included with Flowers was that he had good feet for his size, but if you only watched his feet. If you watched his whole body you'd see some instability and clumsiness but when you're watching his feet you only see that.
Watching plays and games will give you a better overall view of a players performance, then you should focus on individual components of why. Don't turn on a clip and stare at feet, you'll see what you're looking for or not. Watch the entire performance, then go find reasons why. If the reasons are more one on one, you've got something.
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I’d prefer to not draft a player at any position with warts at #4 overall.
Looking at the player rankings this early in the process from talent evaluators, BPA at 4 looks like it’ll be either Okudah from OSU or Jeudy from ‘Bama.
I’d take the CB.
Ogden and Tyron Smith had 'warts' too. Almost no prospect especially at Lt comes in to the pros without needing some level of refinement. Its the level of refinement needed and figuring out if he has the intangibles to make that improvement to play up to that talent level. In this case the potential or ceiling is so high that if he gets even close to that ceiling his level of play will be pro bowl level.
Ogden didn’t really have any warts
So I am interested in the opinion he has on Becton. And as part of that, the question isn't only can he be a good OL, probably as an OT, but will he be the type of player the Giants want to use. A lot of posters have rightly admired San Fran's running attack and wanted something similar. But unless I'm mistaken, that running attack is based on OL with superior movement skills getting out and doing a lot of blocking in space on the 2nd level. And at least from what I've seen, that may not be something that Becton will be great at.
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Not that it means much, but I thought it was interesting that Drew Boylart was very down on Flowers (4th round grade), but very high on Becton (1st round grade). I'm curious to see how Sy'56 grades Becton. As I recall, he was pretty wary of Flowers pre-draft, too.
Flowers was the perfect profile, who upon further inspection, stunko pretty bad. Becton is still intriguing to me, I'll be curious to see his AA performance at the combine, that will go a long way in helping or hurting him.
If he preps for it ,it will show how serious he is and has the AA to wow if he keeps the weight in the 345-360 range.
He is not going to have Orlando Brown numbers.
So I am interested in the opinion he has on Becton. And as part of that, the question isn't only can he be a good OL, probably as an OT, but will he be the type of player the Giants want to use. A lot of posters have rightly admired San Fran's running attack and wanted something similar. But unless I'm mistaken, that running attack is based on OL with superior movement skills getting out and doing a lot of blocking in space on the 2nd level. And at least from what I've seen, that may not be something that Becton will be great at.
Here's Boylhart on Becton. Since it's posted for free I copied it all here for the sake of discussion.
Mekhi Becton OT Louisville
by Drew Boylhart • January 2, 2020
STRENGTHS
Mekhi is a big, powerful, pass blocker with a very quick first step. He is a pure Left Tackle because of his size, long arms and lateral quickness out of his stance. He shows on film the needed athleticism to be a dominating offensive lineman and a franchise Left Tackle. He is an excellent pass blocker with just enough nastiness to be a solid run blocker. When Mekhi is challenged he steps up to that challenge, not allowing his athleticism to overpower his techniques. He is smart and has quick enough feet to get out to the second level and make his blocks sealing the corner on sweeps and screens. Mekhi still has upside to his game and has more untapped potential than he shows at the college level to dominate.
CONCERNS
Mekhi shows some frustration during the game when he is up against some adversity. As the game goes on, and the losing sets in, Makhi will start pushing players in frustration and not staying with his blocks. Makhi has to learn to stay with his blocks, control his frustrations and learn to turn the page if he gets beat and not to get beat on the next play.
BOTTOM LINE 1.56
Mekhi could easily move up to be the first offensive lineman taken in the draft if as I suspect, his workouts are as good as I think they will be. His lack of patience on the field might be an issue that is attached to the run blocking scheme they use at Louisville and not to anything that is happening on the field. I think Mekhi might be frustrated when run blocking because he would like to just maul the crap out of the man in front of him instead of having to be in sync with his offensive lineman. There is no doubt in my mind that Makhi has not been challenged enough at the college level and will flourish with better coaching and challenges at the next level. But there is some doubt, as to how he will react to the need for him to be consistent in his play on the field and become more of a leader that his teammates can depend on when adversity hits during a game. Makhi could be as good as Redskins Trent Williams or…he could be as inconsistent as Bengals Cordy Glenn. Remember I do all of these profiles from film and film only and I’m convinced that in spite of my concerns of his play on the field that if I was to interview him that this concern would be brushed aside quickly. I think this kid will be more like Trent Williams and not like Cordy Glenn.
Link - ( New Window )
1. Heavy investment in the backfield last 2 years (Saquon at 2 and DJ at 6) and both were greatly impacted by poor OL play.
2. Garrett had a superior OL in Dallas and they invested 3 first round picks on OL his first four years as HC
3. Related to #2, Garrett's pass game and preference seems to favor a strong run game and a little more vertical passing game both of those aspects are greatly helped by stronger OL play especially at LT.
4. One of Gettleman's first and greatest proclamations upon becoming GM was the OL needs to be fixed. We are entering year 3 and while he has found 2 potential solutions at OG (Zietler/Hernendez) huge holes remain at OT where both Solder and Remmers have clearly lost a step (and at OC). He undoubtedly will want to be strong in addressing this but there is no FA LT out there that will likely be available for NYG.
5. DG seems to love the big powerful OL and Mekhi fits that profile to a T
6. LT is arguably the most important position on the OL and Jones has seemed to struggle a bit with awareness of peripheral pressure (Edge rush)
7. Quality LTs go very quickly in round 1. The percentages go down greatly to find a high level prospect in round 2 or below.
The guy I would take if forced to it is Wills. I think he's going to be a good OT at minimum although I'm not certain he would thrive at LT.
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Not that it means much, but I thought it was interesting that Drew Boylart was very down on Flowers (4th round grade), but very high on Becton (1st round grade). I'm curious to see how Sy'56 grades Becton. As I recall, he was pretty wary of Flowers pre-draft, too.
Flowers was the perfect profile, who upon further inspection, stunko pretty bad. Becton is still intriguing to me, I'll be curious to see his AA performance at the combine, that will go a long way in helping or hurting him.
No doubt.
For the record, I don't trust Boylhart any more or less than most other pundits, but I thought the difference in his reviews of Flowers and Becton was worth noting. Pretty big variance in his assessments.
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In comment 14794041 Klaatu said:
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Not that it means much, but I thought it was interesting that Drew Boylart was very down on Flowers (4th round grade), but very high on Becton (1st round grade). I'm curious to see how Sy'56 grades Becton. As I recall, he was pretty wary of Flowers pre-draft, too.
Flowers was the perfect profile, who upon further inspection, stunko pretty bad. Becton is still intriguing to me, I'll be curious to see his AA performance at the combine, that will go a long way in helping or hurting him.
No doubt.
For the record, I don't trust Boylhart any more or less than most other pundits, but I thought the difference in his reviews of Flowers and Becton was worth noting. Pretty big variance in his assessments.
Boylehart has some misses but he really nails some too.
Jeremiah is one of the best and he ranks Becton as his OL 1. Draftnetwork is effusive in their praise. Will be interesting to see what Brandt says.