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anyone else really want Mekhi Becton

CMicks3110 : 1/26/2020 8:18 am
watched tape of him the last few days and my god, the man is an absolute monster. He was throwing Clemson defenders around like rag dolls. Having him leading the way for Barkley could make our offense downright deadly.

If we can trade down 1 spot with the Dolphins, pick up a pick and maybe swap 3rds, that would be my ideal scenario.

I know everyone loves Chase Young, but I might be tempted to take Becton before young if both are there.

I want me some Becton
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RE: I don't know if I go Becton at 4?  
Pheonix Orion : 1/26/2020 11:38 am : link
In comment 14794110 edavisiii said:
Quote:
We are early in the process and a lot could happen. 1st and foremost, Solder might do better with a NE guy who is familiar with what worked at his last job. 2nd, Nate is a lot like Columbo as far as build goes and he might be able to improve his technique leading to better play. I think they go defense in the 1st and look at OL at 36. Somebody will fall to 36 that we did not think would be there and it will help. The other factor is we need a center. Halapio may be healed by camp but he will be behind.


Halapio healthy or not was terrible last year. Would rather see a vet in there like Thuney or McGovern . Would even prefer to try Gates there (who got reps last year at OC in practice) than Pio.
Becton  
WillVAB : 1/26/2020 12:28 pm : link
If he’s the target the Giants need to trade down with Oakland.

I like Becton, but he’s probably going to need some time to develop and I don’t think he’s worth a top 5 pick.
'Would rather see a vet in there like Thuney or McGovern'  
Torrag : 1/26/2020 12:28 pm : link
Connor McGovern? Isn't he signed and the primary interior backup OL for Dallas?

Thuney played alright but isn't much of a run blocker. Pats couldn't establish an inside running game to save their ass last year. Throw in a position switch and I'm not sold. Draft Ruiz in the second round and spend the free agent dollars on better players than him.
RE: 'Would rather see a vet in there like Thuney or McGovern'  
Klaatu : 1/26/2020 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14794200 Torrag said:
Quote:
Connor McGovern? Isn't he signed and the primary interior backup OL for Dallas?

Thuney played alright but isn't much of a run blocker. Pats couldn't establish an inside running game to save their ass last year. Throw in a position switch and I'm not sold. Draft Ruiz in the second round and spend the free agent dollars on better players than him.


He's talking about the Broncos' Connor McGovern, who's also a Center.
RE: Becton  
Bruner4329 : 1/26/2020 12:38 pm : link
In comment 14794198 WillVAB said:
Quote:
If he’s the target the Giants need to trade down with Oakland.

I like Becton, but he’s probably going to need some time to develop and I don’t think he’s worth a top 5 pick.


Exactly. He is not worthy of the number 4 pick. Giants would be ridiculed picking him here when more than likely there are players available with higher value. He has upside but but needs development.
Joe Judge  
PaulN : 1/26/2020 12:42 pm : link
Is a good talent evaluator, plus we have Garrett and Grahm here also, Colombo also, the Giants are not going to fuck this up, plus Gettleman is a good talent evaluator, these guys are going to work together to get this right. In my opinion the Giants could take a vet corner, but when they pick if Young is gone and there is no tradeback and Okuda is there, I guarentee he is the pick, in fact if this ends up our pick, jump for joy because he is a good one. Way better then any tackle in this draft, and I like Becton.
'He's talking about the Broncos' Connor McGovern'  
Torrag : 1/26/2020 12:43 pm : link
Klatuu dallas signed him away from Denver before 2019 to a four year deal. That's why I'm asking who he's talking about.
RE: 'Would rather see a vet in there like Thuney or McGovern'  
Pheonix Orion : 1/26/2020 12:55 pm : link
In comment 14794200 Torrag said:
Quote:
Connor McGovern? Isn't he signed and the primary interior backup OL for Dallas?

Thuney played alright but isn't much of a run blocker. Pats couldn't establish an inside running game to save their ass last year. Throw in a position switch and I'm not sold. Draft Ruiz in the second round and spend the free agent dollars on better players than him.


Too much youth on the OL if we add 2 rookies. And there is no vet LT that we can likely land without a surprise trade.

Like the OC crop in the draft but I'd prefer to go the vet route there. McGovern, Thuney, or even Gates there all offer more experience than a first year guy.

RE: Joe Judge  
Pheonix Orion : 1/26/2020 12:59 pm : link
In comment 14794222 PaulN said:
Quote:
Is a good talent evaluator, plus we have Garrett and Grahm here also, Colombo also, the Giants are not going to fuck this up, plus Gettleman is a good talent evaluator, these guys are going to work together to get this right. In my opinion the Giants could take a vet corner, but when they pick if Young is gone and there is no tradeback and Okuda is there, I guarentee he is the pick, in fact if this ends up our pick, jump for joy because he is a good one. Way better then any tackle in this draft, and I like Becton.


Look I really like Okudah. But an elite LT carries the same if not more value depending on system.

What we may want to run with Garrett /Jones/Barkley will need an even better OL potentially.

Secondly our secondary is very, very young already and we just spent a 1st rounder on a CB. I see the vet FA route for the other starting CB.
draft network  
Stan in LA : 1/26/2020 1:07 pm : link
Quote:
Red Flags - None

Summary - Mekhi Becton projects as a starting left tackle at the NFL level — and a damn good one. Becton has all the length and functional power in the world, pairing it with a rare blend of flexibility and size. Becton is a brawler in the run game and his pure size overwhelms many pass rushers off the edge. There are still some technique consistencies to still be ironed out but generally speaking the ceiling here is sky high and there's a foundation that should allow early production at LT.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: draft network  
GFAN52 : 1/26/2020 1:11 pm : link
In comment 14794249 Stan in LA said:
Quote:


Quote:


Red Flags - None

Summary - Mekhi Becton projects as a starting left tackle at the NFL level — and a damn good one. Becton has all the length and functional power in the world, pairing it with a rare blend of flexibility and size. Becton is a brawler in the run game and his pure size overwhelms many pass rushers off the edge. There are still some technique consistencies to still be ironed out but generally speaking the ceiling here is sky high and there's a foundation that should allow early production at LT.

Link - ( New Window )


So they rate him as the 4th best. Becton needs to show at the Combine and team workouts they he can control his weight, meaning he better show up in top shape.
'There are still some technique consistencies to still be ironed out'  
Torrag : 1/26/2020 1:16 pm : link
There are actually a lot of them including footwork. Doesn't address that he has not just technique consistency issues but performance ones as well. His tape is sloppy. He's all over the place. Also doesn't consider long term durability at his size.

Bechton is far from a slam dunk. He's not a blue chip prospect for a reason.
RE: RE: draft network  
Pheonix Orion : 1/26/2020 1:16 pm : link
In comment 14794256 GFAN52 said:
Quote:
In comment 14794249 Stan in LA said:


Quote:




Quote:


Red Flags - None

Summary - Mekhi Becton projects as a starting left tackle at the NFL level — and a damn good one. Becton has all the length and functional power in the world, pairing it with a rare blend of flexibility and size. Becton is a brawler in the run game and his pure size overwhelms many pass rushers off the edge. There are still some technique consistencies to still be ironed out but generally speaking the ceiling here is sky high and there's a foundation that should allow early production at LT.

Link - ( New Window )



So they rate him as the 4th best. Becton needs to show at the Combine and team workouts they he can control his weight, meaning he better show up in top shape.


They rate him better than that and there are 3 main analysts that combine their takes at that site. They just recently updated their reports from prior to this years big improvement on tape.

'Too much youth on the OL if we add 2 rookies.'  
Torrag : 1/26/2020 1:21 pm : link
Better to have youth than spend on average talent that doesn't fit the role you're considering them for.

McGovern isn't available, I addressed Thuney as a mediocre run blocker and not an OC and what has Gates done to warrant getting the inside track as starting OC?

> Simply not a fan of your 'plan' for the O-line. Reeks of disaster.
RE: 'There are still some technique consistencies to still be ironed out'  
Pheonix Orion : 1/26/2020 1:22 pm : link
In comment 14794262 Torrag said:
Quote:
There are actually a lot of them including footwork. Doesn't address that he has not just technique consistency issues but performance ones as well. His tape is sloppy. He's all over the place. Also doesn't consider long term durability at his size.

Bechton is far from a slam dunk. He's not a blue chip prospect for a reason.


New coaching this year and he's improved every year. You want a guy who you think WILL improve with continued coaching. Early indications are he isn't a Flowers who wasnt correctable or isn't likely to improve. That's the exciting part of this kid height,weight, arm length combination combined with fluidity of footwork at that size are off the charts. He also shows real intangible potential for continued improvement like Tyron Smith did (who was even more a project development wise than Becton).
'You want a guy who you think WILL improve with continued coaching'  
Torrag : 1/26/2020 1:26 pm : link
At #4 I want a blue chip established prospect. Not a project which is what Becton is. I grant he's an extremely high ceiling project but his floor is also low. At #4 I'm not drafting guys for their 'potential'.
RE: 'Too much youth on the OL if we add 2 rookies.'  
Pheonix Orion : 1/26/2020 1:31 pm : link
In comment 14794270 Torrag said:
Quote:
Better to have youth than spend on average talent that doesn't fit the role you're considering them for.

McGovern isn't available, I addressed Thuney as a mediocre run blocker and not an OC and what has Gates done to warrant getting the inside track as starting OC?

> Simply not a fan of your 'plan' for the O-line. Reeks of disaster.


Both Gates and Thuney have had pro reps and conditioning. Both have also taken reps at the OC position at the pro level. Both are likely light years better than Pio and won't have as many growing pains and inconsistency like a rookie signal caller would. Not saying this is the ideal but likely better than either Pio or a rookie.

Also no idea where you are getting your McGovern info from but he is most definitely heading toward FA and not a lock to resign in Denver.

McGovern - ( New Window )
I hate your plan if it involves Thuney or Gates at OC  
Torrag : 1/26/2020 1:39 pm : link
Replacing bums with JAGS isn't cutting it.

What IS interesting is that there are TWO Conor McGoverns in the NFL and they both play interior OL. Ones a FA from Denver the other is signed on the Cowboys. Go figure.

I have to do some homework on the Denver version. I'll get back to you.
RE: I hate your plan if it involves Thuney or Gates at OC  
Pheonix Orion : 1/26/2020 2:14 pm : link
In comment 14794294 Torrag said:
Quote:
Replacing bums with JAGS isn't cutting it.

What IS interesting is that there are TWO Conor McGoverns in the NFL and they both play interior OL. Ones a FA from Denver the other is signed on the Cowboys. Go figure.

I have to do some homework on the Denver version. I'll get back to you.


The OL doesn't have to be pro bowlers at every position but you can't have turnstiles or sieves at any position either. Last year 3 guys bordered on the turnstile or marshmellow it being Solder Remmers and Pio.

Thuney is better than you give him credit for IMO and Gates looks that way too. O' Hara was not a mauler by any stretch but a heady, smart center who knew his assignments. Thuney and Gates are really smart lineman who seem to 'get it' and could quite likely flourish at the OC spot.

Either would likely be a sizeable upgrade to Pio.

Do your homework on McGovern and get back to me. He isn't a pro bowler but he is an average to solid center who gets the job done more often than not. Don't think he has quite the upside of either Thuney or Gates at that position but he is more a proven quantity.

I would take ANY of these options over Pio again or Pulley and yes over a rookie especially if we add a rookie LT to the line.
RE: How many people still think ...  
ColHowPepper : 1/26/2020 2:14 pm : link
Quote:
Zack Martin and Quentin Nelson weren’t worth their spots? This in our way means Becton should be the pick. Can’t use Flowers every time theories a T or G prospect who may be near the Giants slot.
To my eyes their floor was much higher than Becton's. Martin and Nelson were/are powerful, compact, agile, moved well and fast on traps and to second level. They had 'can't miss' written all over them. From little I've seen of Becton, he might have more upside but his floor could be a lot lower.
RE: RE: How many people still think ...  
Pheonix Orion : 1/26/2020 2:24 pm : link
In comment 14794324 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:


Quote:


Zack Martin and Quentin Nelson weren’t worth their spots? This in our way means Becton should be the pick. Can’t use Flowers every time theories a T or G prospect who may be near the Giants slot.

To my eyes their floor was much higher than Becton's. Martin and Nelson were/are powerful, compact, agile, moved well and fast on traps and to second level. They had 'can't miss' written all over them. From little I've seen of Becton, he might have more upside but his floor could be a lot lower.


Apparently Jeremiah and others don't agree . I wouldn't call him can't miss but based on what we know I think he is less project and risk coming in than Tyron Smith who went 9 to the Cowboys. Combine and interviews should cement this.
'I think he is less project and risk coming in than Tyron Smith'  
Torrag : 1/26/2020 2:40 pm : link
Tyron Smith had much more consistent footwork and technique than Becton has. I don't know how you can even debate it. Becton has a lot to work on in his game. The technique in his pass sets and hand play are raw. Now he's a mountain of a man and country strong with the wingspan of an albatross and he can move. Those are his strengths and they are undeniable. When it comes to the nuts and bolts of playing the position you are way overselling his current skill level to try and make your argument imo.
Not at all  
armstead98 : 1/26/2020 3:03 pm : link
I don't see it. He's always bending at the waist and he doesn't move that well. I think he'll get torched in the NFL.
RE: 'I think he is less project and risk coming in than Tyron Smith'  
Pheonix Orion : 1/26/2020 3:09 pm : link
In comment 14794349 Torrag said:
Quote:
Tyron Smith had much more consistent footwork and technique than Becton has. I don't know how you can even debate it. Becton has a lot to work on in his game. The technique in his pass sets and hand play are raw. Now he's a mountain of a man and country strong with the wingspan of an albatross and he can move. Those are his strengths and they are undeniable. When it comes to the nuts and bolts of playing the position you are way overselling his current skill level to try and make your argument imo.


Tyron Smith needed a year at RT before he transitioned and if you read the multiple write ups back then many said he was a bit raw but with tremendous upside.

I never said Becton is a finished product either. I even think Wills is more polished (just much lower ceiling). But I do not feel Becton is unpolished nor a long term project. The tools are so elite and He is just so powerful and smooth that he can still function at a decent or better level very early on. Jeremiah said as much in his report. He isn't a 2 -3 year project by any means .
RE: Not at all  
Pheonix Orion : 1/26/2020 3:12 pm : link
In comment 14794413 armstead98 said:
Quote:
I don't see it. He's always bending at the waist and he doesn't move that well. I think he'll get torched in the NFL.


He's bending at the waist because the rushers are trying like heck to avoid his reach entirely. Rushers don't try to attack him like they do 'normal' lineman. They are scared as heck of trying to bull rush or spin off him.

That can easily get cleaned up at the pro level where he'll get coached up to guard/manage his area better and let them come to him more often before mauling them.
RE: RE: 'Too much youth on the OL if we add 2 rookies.'  
Rjanyg : 1/26/2020 3:42 pm : link
In comment 14794283 Pheonix Orion said:
Quote:
In comment 14794270 Torrag said:


Quote:


Better to have youth than spend on average talent that doesn't fit the role you're considering them for.

McGovern isn't available, I addressed Thuney as a mediocre run blocker and not an OC and what has Gates done to warrant getting the inside track as starting OC?

> Simply not a fan of your 'plan' for the O-line. Reeks of disaster.



Both Gates and Thuney have had pro reps and conditioning. Both have also taken reps at the OC position at the pro level. Both are likely light years better than Pio and won't have as many growing pains and inconsistency like a rookie signal caller would. Not saying this is the ideal but likely better than either Pio or a rookie.

Also no idea where you are getting your McGovern info from but he is most definitely heading toward FA and not a lock to resign in Denver. McGovern - ( New Window )


Yes please to McGovern. We need a real center.
'But I do not feel Becton is unpolished'  
Torrag : 1/26/2020 4:08 pm : link
Jeremiah ranked him 10th and straight out points out his strengths and weaknesses. Again I'm not bashing him but he's not a blue chip prospect and we'd be better served trading down if that's feasible. Of course people are high on his upside it's through the roof. We'll be seeing the clips where he throws a guy 10 yards and falls on top of him until the Draft arrives. The NFL isn't the ACC. That doesn't tell the whole story. That said I'll obviously keep tabs on him and his workouts and see how things unfold. I doubt I'll change my mind about using the #4 pick on him.
Bigblueshock  
Tuckrule : 1/27/2020 7:33 am : link
Your right. I just argue with people in person, friends of mine, some of which read bbi so it’s half a running joke between them and I and half I care. But your correct can’t deny it. I’ll refrain from commenting on Simmons.
RE: I just think there are a lot of factors  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/27/2020 8:09 am : link
In comment 14794091 Pheonix Orion said:
Quote:
That all seem to point strongly to LT if one makes the grade....

1. Heavy investment in the backfield last 2 years (Saquon at 2 and DJ at 6) and both were greatly impacted by poor OL play.

2. Garrett had a superior OL in Dallas and they invested 3 first round picks on OL his first four years as HC

3. Related to #2, Garrett's pass game and preference seems to favor a strong run game and a little more vertical passing game both of those aspects are greatly helped by stronger OL play especially at LT.

4. One of Gettleman's first and greatest proclamations upon becoming GM was the OL needs to be fixed. We are entering year 3 and while he has found 2 potential solutions at OG (Zietler/Hernendez) huge holes remain at OT where both Solder and Remmers have clearly lost a step (and at OC). He undoubtedly will want to be strong in addressing this but there is no FA LT out there that will likely be available for NYG.

5. DG seems to love the big powerful OL and Mekhi fits that profile to a T

6. LT is arguably the most important position on the OL and Jones has seemed to struggle a bit with awareness of peripheral pressure (Edge rush)

7. Quality LTs go very quickly in round 1. The percentages go down greatly to find a high level prospect in round 2 or below.


Great. We're trudging towards the good old Jersey Joe list of the 7 ways to improve a team!! This should ramp up impressively in the next several weeks....
i'd like to see the draft eval process play out  
MM_in_NYC : 1/27/2020 8:38 am : link
a bit more before committing to having favorites for the #4 pick. mekhi does seem to be a great player and fit for the current needs of the giants. there are other players that appear to be too however. don't think need to go all in on anyone just yet.
RE: RE: Well to be fair  
MM_in_NYC : 1/27/2020 8:40 am : link
In comment 14794015 Pheonix Orion said:
Quote:
In comment 14794007 LakeGeorgeGiant said:


Quote:


People aren't exactly pulling the Flowers comparison out of their ass. I'm not sure how any Giants fan could watch this guy bending and lunging and not be reminded of Flowers.

Given the enormous upside I'd rather take the risk on Becton than Thomas, but I don't want a project at 4.

They'd be smarter to take Okudah.



Love Okudah but our secondary is extremely young . Also free agency is solidly stocked at CB. I see us stabilizing the secondary with a veteran vs. going with another very young player at the position.

Wills might be the most polished OT of them all but he doesn't have nearly the upside that Becton has.


good point about FA, our young secondary, and perhaps the right way to build back there. i was thinking the same thing a couple weeks ago when watching the championship game. okudah looks pretty special however. this is what makes team building and thus the offseason so fun.
RE: I haven’t watched many of his plays yet.  
GuzzaBlue : 1/27/2020 10:13 am : link
In comment 14793938 Giant John said:
Quote:
From what I’ve seen though he appears to be a man among boys. This guy doesn’t have to worry about techniques.


This is what gets you in trouble with the draft. Its easy to fall for a player's size/measurable's. NFL is all about technique. Strength and size can make you elite in college, but the strength and speed of NFL players is so much greater than college. You will be consistently exposed in the NFL if you lack technique.
RE: RE: RE: Well to be fair  
Pheonix Orion : 1/27/2020 2:32 pm : link
In comment 14795038 MM_in_NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 14794015 Pheonix Orion said:


Quote:


In comment 14794007 LakeGeorgeGiant said:


Quote:


People aren't exactly pulling the Flowers comparison out of their ass. I'm not sure how any Giants fan could watch this guy bending and lunging and not be reminded of Flowers.

Given the enormous upside I'd rather take the risk on Becton than Thomas, but I don't want a project at 4.

They'd be smarter to take Okudah.



Love Okudah but our secondary is extremely young . Also free agency is solidly stocked at CB. I see us stabilizing the secondary with a veteran vs. going with another very young player at the position.

Wills might be the most polished OT of them all but he doesn't have nearly the upside that Becton has.



good point about FA, our young secondary, and perhaps the right way to build back there. i was thinking the same thing a couple weeks ago when watching the championship game. okudah looks pretty special however. this is what makes team building and thus the offseason so fun.


Agreed Okudah looks pretty special and may fall under the rare instant hogh level starter day 1 category. But I still think for the way the team is constructed a dominant LT helps us more overall. Why ? because there are two things that are very important to this team now with Barkley and Garrett : the run and the downfield passing game. We also have a QB (at least thus far) who has struggled a bit with peripheral pressure.
RE: after years of draft ups and downs  
djm : 1/27/2020 8:56 pm : link
In comment 14793957 blueblood said:
Quote:
and getting attached to a guy I WANT... ive learned not to do that anymore.. I just try to learn about the players so that whoever the Giants pick I have some knowledge of who they are and their abilities.



This again. For the first time in probably forever I was not shocked by a pick that seemed to shock nearly everyone, that being the jones pick last year. The reason why is simple, there weren’t that many players and possibilities to prepare for. Giants picked 5th it was either gonna be the qb or Allen. Then, just hyper focus on the senior bowl and collegiate play.

Even if you know everything about the giants they will surprise you in the draft. Just like every other team will. But if you examine the giants history and what seems to make them tick this time of year, you can usually see the high first round pick coming. It’s those latter picks where it gets really tough.
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