Who is your OT1, OT2, OT3 and OT4? I have a feeling many people's lists are going to change after the Combine, but would love to hear how you rank them right now.
1-Becton ( but not at 4, we absolutely need to trade down 8-10 pick for him)
2- Thomas (we may stay put at 4)
3- Wirfs ( we need to trade down 5-10 pick for him)
4- Willis ( we need to trade down 5-10 pick for him)
1-Becton ( but not at 4, we absolutely need to trade down 8-10 pick for him)
2- Thomas (we may stay put at 4)
3- Wirfs ( we need to trade down 5-10 pick for him)
4- Willis ( we need to trade down 5-10 pick for him)
See this I don't agree with. For example what if, after all the scouting, we think Wirfs is clearly the best OT in the draft. Since he will be long gone by the time we draft in Rd 2, we need to take him at #4 regardless if the "projection" says he should go #10-15. I mean what is the alternative? Pick someone we like less at #4 just because people have him projected higher? Also trading like this is usually not real. We can't just decided to trade down. First there has to be another partner for us, and two they will always try to screw us.
I believe in identifying the players we really want, and then getting them when we have the shot.
1-Becton ( but not at 4, we absolutely need to trade down 8-10 pick for him)
2- Thomas (we may stay put at 4)
3- Wirfs ( we need to trade down 5-10 pick for him)
4- Willis ( we need to trade down 5-10 pick for him)
Think Jeremiah really nailed it with his rankings and has a very good eye with this stuff.
1- Becton- upside is Tyron Smith, McKinnie even Ogden/Pace level. Early indications Character/football IQ /work ethic strong enough to get there.
2- Wills- very solid all around not the ceiling of Becton but high floor and would be an above average LT of better in the league which has tremendous value.
3- Wirfs- I see Brandon Scherff all over again. Wont be a good OT or max a decent RT but a phenomenal OG. Not a need, nor worth the risk for current team make up.
4- Thomas - way overrated. Plenty of technique issues that need to be worked out. Jeremiah has him ranked 25 and rightly so.
Wills is the most complete and safest but his ceiling isn't as high Â
1-Becton ( but not at 4, we absolutely need to trade down 8-10 pick for him)
2- Thomas (we may stay put at 4)
3- Wirfs ( we need to trade down 5-10 pick for him)
4- Willis ( we need to trade down 5-10 pick for him)
See this I don't agree with. For example what if, after all the scouting, we think Wirfs is clearly the best OT in the draft. Since he will be long gone by the time we draft in Rd 2, we need to take him at #4 regardless if the "projection" says he should go #10-15. I mean what is the alternative? Pick someone we like less at #4 just because people have him projected higher? Also trading like this is usually not real. We can't just decided to trade down. First there has to be another partner for us, and two they will always try to screw us.
I believe in identifying the players we really want, and then getting them when we have the shot.
I agree. If you like a player, he fills a need and he won't be around the next time you draft go get him. That was what they did with Daniel Jones.
we may be in love with someone but that someone may not be seen as good to others... that's why Beckon was not a #4 pick 2 weeks ago...
now we have NFL Network Jeremiah who put him at #4 for us but 2 weeks ago nobody would say top 4... end of first round even round 2 was the logical place to draft him
I mean someone may want a QB badly, we trade down to 5 or 6 or 7 and still have 95% chance to get him
as for the Georgia LT Thomas, since the start of the NFL season he is top 10 material
Ranked anywhere from 44 to out of the top 100, Boylhart thinks he's a first round talent, and I don't know that I'd disagree. Another big kid listed at 6'7", 340, but with even better movement skills than Becton who is getting a lot of deserved interest. Plays RT for Georgia, needs technique coaching, but a LOT of talent.
That's the ideal scenario if it's feasible. OL is the #1 priority but you have to get value at #4 if you stay there. You move down a little to add a premium pick or two and it changes the entire dynamic of the Draft for us.
my favorite tackles in this draft are - Becton, Charles, and Wanogho.
This is actually a good draft of very solid LTs. But there is no "can't miss" type, so it's tough to choose any of them at #4.
I think when the analysis of Becton is all said and done; Combine numbers, drill performance, footwork, interview , character, football IQ etc. he grades out as very high probability to reach his ceiling or close to it. Wills will grade out strong too with a high floor but not quite the sky high ceiling of Becton's.
Once again, I really think Jeremiah's take and ranking on these 4 were spot on.
RE: 'If you could move down a bit - then the OL picked sure looks better' Â
That's the ideal scenario if it's feasible. OL is the #1 priority but you have to get value at #4 if you stay there. You move down a little to add a premium pick or two and it changes the entire dynamic of the Draft for us.
This would be the ideal scenario... get Becton (or Wills) with a very slight tradedown with a QB desperate team.
I think after last week, we can now throw Josh Jones Â
Into the mix. He had a great week of practice at the Senior Bowl, and completely backed it up during the game. He was mentioned quite a few times by Jeremiah, and he said you just know when you have someone really good when you are shutting your piers down.
I think all five tackles will be long gone by the time the 2nd round comes.
RE: I think after last week, we can now throw Josh Jones Â
Into the mix. He had a great week of practice at the Senior Bowl, and completely backed it up during the game. He was mentioned quite a few times by Jeremiah, and he said you just know when you have someone really good when you are shutting your piers down.
I think all five tackles will be long gone by the time the 2nd round comes.
You may be right on Jones. But to me he is still a notch below Becton. But I like his upside quite a bit too.
Wirfs and Thomas are 1 and 2 for me in that order. Â
Becton is a beast but a bit boom or bust. Great feet for someone so big but overextends a lot and gets off balance. I think he’ll be fine if he can be coached up. Wills seems to have the lowest ceiling but will at least be a competent pro.
As for Wilson, I’d be thrilled if he lasted till our 2nd round pick but doubt he does. If I knew he would I’d happily draft OTs 1 and 2..
Becton is a beast but a bit boom or bust. Fine if he can be coached up Â
That's spot on analysis. There is a just a little too much risk with him at #4. BTW I'm not arguing we should draft any of these OT's at #4. We shouldn't. None of them warrant that high of a pick. That's the point of the entire conversation of OT's in this class.
If you want one there are options but they should be taken after trading down.
I’m hoping he means drafting or acquiring a physical, beastly OL. Two bookend OTs would go a long way toward that objective. I’d be fine with an OT at 4, but happier if we could land our target after a small trade down.
I’m hoping he means drafting or acquiring a physical, beastly OL. Two bookend OTs would go a long way toward that objective. I’d be fine with an OT at 4, but happier if we could land our target after a small trade down.
Agreed. This OL has been in flux wayyyy too long. I think they are agressive this year in nailing it down and Becton makes the grade on their board.
RE: Wirfs and Thomas are 1 and 2 for me in that order. Â
Becton is a beast but a bit boom or bust. Great feet for someone so big but overextends a lot and gets off balance. I think he’ll be fine if he can be coached up. Wills seems to have the lowest ceiling but will at least be a competent pro.
As for Wilson, I’d be thrilled if he lasted till our 2nd round pick but doubt he does. If I knew he would I’d happily draft OTs 1 and 2..
Wirfs is a pro bowl OG or pretty good RT. Thomas has way too many technique issues and scares the heck out of me.
I think that Wirfs can be a dominant RT, and can move to LT down the Â
OC is critical for the run game too. Which is why I don't want to settle for just OK there.
If we can engineer a trade down and get that extra 2nd rounder we can go OT#4(I like several) and then Ruiz in Round 2. Then it's defense, defense, defense and a WR like Slayton late. Sign ER Judon and CB Roby in free agency.
Whoever ranks as least risk at LT is where I would place my chip. Also remember that the physical talent of SB allows less than pancakes to more than get the job done. Lucky if you can touch him while being harassed, let alone drag him down.
Still like to see Conklin brought in at RT, but not at hyper-inflated price.
RE: 'Today, when Judge talks about creating a foundation' Â
OC is critical for the run game too. Which is why I don't want to settle for just OK there.
If we can engineer a trade down and get that extra 2nd rounder we can go OT#4(I like several) and then Ruiz in Round 2. Then it's defense, defense, defense and a WR like Slayton late. Sign ER Judon and CB Roby in free agency.
Ideal:
Slight trade down pick up Miami's 2nd our last first 26.
Resign: Golden (or Yannick Jags ER but Golden cheaper and Giants like to resign their own), Williams , underrated 2nd tier ER, decent coverage LB, vet starting CB
One vet FA lineman.
We are going to have close to 90 million and some of these guys above will be 2nd tier or 3rd tier.
That's spot on analysis. There is a just a little too much risk with him at #4. BTW I'm not arguing we should draft any of these OT's at #4. We shouldn't. None of them warrant that high of a pick. That's the point of the entire conversation of OT's in this class.
If you want one there are options but they should be taken after trading down.
All of these guys have boom-or-bust potential. But in my estimation at this stage of the process, Thomas has the biggest boom-bust potential. I am a firm believer in taking OL early. Right now I would rank these guys as follows:
1. Becton
2. Wills
3. Thomas
4. Wirfs
I would be happy with Becton at #4. We will never be a dominant team without a dominant OL.
RE: RE: Becton is a beast but a bit boom or bust. Fine if he can be coached up Â
In comment 14794821 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
In comment 14794364 Torrag said:
Quote:
That's spot on analysis. There is a just a little too much risk with him at #4. BTW I'm not arguing we should draft any of these OT's at #4. We shouldn't. None of them warrant that high of a pick. That's the point of the entire conversation of OT's in this class.
If you want one there are options but they should be taken after trading down.
All of these guys have boom-or-bust potential. But in my estimation at this stage of the process, Thomas has the biggest boom-bust potential. I am a firm believer in taking OL early. Right now I would rank these guys as follows:
1. Becton
2. Wills
3. Thomas
4. Wirfs
I would be happy with Becton at #4. We will never be a dominant team without a dominant OL.
If we are talking strictly LT it's Becton, Wills then a big drop. Jones, Prince have potential but are more developmental. Wirfs is not an LT. Thomas has way too much inconsistency and technique issues for my liking.
Becton
my favorite tackles in this draft are - Becton, Charles, and Wanogho.
This is actually a good draft of very solid LTs. But there is no "can't miss" type, so it's tough to choose any of them at #4.
I think when the analysis of Becton is all said and done; Combine numbers, drill performance, footwork, interview , character, football IQ etc. he grades out as very high probability to reach his ceiling or close to it. Wills will grade out strong too with a high floor but not quite the sky high ceiling of Becton's.
Once again, I really think Jeremiah's take and ranking on these 4 were spot on.
I hear you. Lots of green arrows and momentum for Becton right now.
I'll admit, however, his size bothers me and I could see that being a problem. Maybe he's just a physical freak and the DNA just holds up for a long career. But I think there is some > than normal risk taking a guy this big at #4.
I've grown real fond of LSU's Saahdiq Charles. Really like how he's steadily improved and looks like a very good athlete. Has nice feet and good hands...
Projected to be a good starter, let’s say pro bowl potential but not perfect? Take him at at 4 and don’t think twice about it. You don’t need hall of famers here but the giants absolutely need a good young starter at tackle. Then take the center in round 2. A good one will likely be there. This draft has what the giants need. It’s perfectly lined up, assuming they like one of the tackles.
best prospect and is available at 4, you take them. DG knows lineman and will pull the trigger. Lets see how FA goes!
I'm glad you're ultra confident in DG identifying OL. Because at this point he signed Solder to a record setting deal, and the guy is a turnstile. He signed Omaneh, and had to cut the guy halfway through the season because he was so bad. He keeps telling us not to sleep on Halapio, and that guy is awful. I think Hernandez will ultimately turn it around, but there is little to suggest that he as shown off his skills in identifying OL during his tenure with the Giants. I really don't care if five years ago he lucked out and got Norwell in Carolina.
1-Becton ( but not at 4, we absolutely need to trade down 8-10 pick for him)
2- Thomas (we may stay put at 4)
3- Wirfs ( we need to trade down 5-10 pick for him)
4- Willis ( we need to trade down 5-10 pick for him)
This is so seriously stupid it isn't worth a response, but PP handled it.
my favorite tackles in this draft are - Becton, Charles, and Wanogho.
This is actually a good draft of very solid LTs. But there is no "can't miss" type, so it's tough to choose any of them at #4.
I think when the analysis of Becton is all said and done; Combine numbers, drill performance, footwork, interview , character, football IQ etc. he grades out as very high probability to reach his ceiling or close to it. Wills will grade out strong too with a high floor but not quite the sky high ceiling of Becton's.
Once again, I really think Jeremiah's take and ranking on these 4 were spot on.
I hear you. Lots of green arrows and momentum for Becton right now.
I'll admit, however, his size bothers me and I could see that being a problem. Maybe he's just a physical freak and the DNA just holds up for a long career. But I think there is some > than normal risk taking a guy this big at #4.
I've grown real fond of LSU's Saahdiq Charles. Really like how he's steadily improved and looks like a very good athlete. Has nice feet and good hands...
Saddiq Charles and Josh Jones could be late risers. This is a pretty loaded class with LT hopefuls. The key with LT is pass protection and therefore big dudes with fluid and quick feet. There are quite a few this year that have potential to be good. But only a couple with the potential to be outright dominant. A decent LT vs. a dominant one is basically the difference of an 'in the prime' Solder or a 'in the prime' Tyron Smith. Both have first round value because of he importance of the position but one can destroy and eliminate defenders both in the run and pass game while the other is pretty good at protecting his QB just long enough for him to get the throw off fairly consistently. Then you have the LTs that can provide a bit of snarl in the running game but get beat a little more often in pass pro. Think David Diehl.
The guys that do both at an elite level are special. Becton has that ceiling. Wills has the ceiling to do both at a good to very good level but not necessarily dominant. Doesn't guarantee he reaches that level but there are a lot of positve intangibles (character, football IQ, steady improvement in technique etc.) that give you confidence he will.
TO be honest, I haven't followed college football as much as I have in the past. I'm kind of playing catch up right now.
1-Becton ( but not at 4, we absolutely need to trade down 8-10 pick for him)
2- Thomas (we may stay put at 4)
3- Wirfs ( we need to trade down 5-10 pick for him)
4- Willis ( we need to trade down 5-10 pick for him)
1-Becton ( but not at 4, we absolutely need to trade down 8-10 pick for him)
2- Thomas (we may stay put at 4)
3- Wirfs ( we need to trade down 5-10 pick for him)
4- Willis ( we need to trade down 5-10 pick for him)
See this I don't agree with. For example what if, after all the scouting, we think Wirfs is clearly the best OT in the draft. Since he will be long gone by the time we draft in Rd 2, we need to take him at #4 regardless if the "projection" says he should go #10-15. I mean what is the alternative? Pick someone we like less at #4 just because people have him projected higher? Also trading like this is usually not real. We can't just decided to trade down. First there has to be another partner for us, and two they will always try to screw us.
I believe in identifying the players we really want, and then getting them when we have the shot.
1-Becton ( but not at 4, we absolutely need to trade down 8-10 pick for him)
2- Thomas (we may stay put at 4)
3- Wirfs ( we need to trade down 5-10 pick for him)
4- Willis ( we need to trade down 5-10 pick for him)
Think Jeremiah really nailed it with his rankings and has a very good eye with this stuff.
1- Becton- upside is Tyron Smith, McKinnie even Ogden/Pace level. Early indications Character/football IQ /work ethic strong enough to get there.
2- Wills- very solid all around not the ceiling of Becton but high floor and would be an above average LT of better in the league which has tremendous value.
3- Wirfs- I see Brandon Scherff all over again. Wont be a good OT or max a decent RT but a phenomenal OG. Not a need, nor worth the risk for current team make up.
4- Thomas - way overrated. Plenty of technique issues that need to be worked out. Jeremiah has him ranked 25 and rightly so.
To me Thomas is overrated and Wirfs has some core stiffness that worries me.
I wouldn't draft any of them #4 overall as their complete profiles and bodies of work don't warrant it.
Quote:
my personnal choices:
1-Becton ( but not at 4, we absolutely need to trade down 8-10 pick for him)
2- Thomas (we may stay put at 4)
3- Wirfs ( we need to trade down 5-10 pick for him)
4- Willis ( we need to trade down 5-10 pick for him)
See this I don't agree with. For example what if, after all the scouting, we think Wirfs is clearly the best OT in the draft. Since he will be long gone by the time we draft in Rd 2, we need to take him at #4 regardless if the "projection" says he should go #10-15. I mean what is the alternative? Pick someone we like less at #4 just because people have him projected higher? Also trading like this is usually not real. We can't just decided to trade down. First there has to be another partner for us, and two they will always try to screw us.
I believe in identifying the players we really want, and then getting them when we have the shot.
I agree. If you like a player, he fills a need and he won't be around the next time you draft go get him. That was what they did with Daniel Jones.
I still say when he locks on a guy nobody gets passed him
I think Jeremiah is wrong
now we have NFL Network Jeremiah who put him at #4 for us but 2 weeks ago nobody would say top 4... end of first round even round 2 was the logical place to draft him
I mean someone may want a QB badly, we trade down to 5 or 6 or 7 and still have 95% chance to get him
as for the Georgia LT Thomas, since the start of the NFL season he is top 10 material
If RT is in play I’d rank them as such with none worthy of a top 5 pick:
Becton
Wirfs
Thomas
Wills
Isaiah Wilson Highlight Video - ( New Window )
I mean maybe , but nobody is certain.
If you could move down a bit, get a 2nd rounder or shit another 1st then grab one of them - then the OL picked sure looks better.
This is actually a good draft of very solid LTs. But there is no "can't miss" type, so it's tough to choose any of them at #4.
Ran out of space in the title. Haha
This is actually a good draft of very solid LTs. But there is no "can't miss" type, so it's tough to choose any of them at #4.
I think when the analysis of Becton is all said and done; Combine numbers, drill performance, footwork, interview , character, football IQ etc. he grades out as very high probability to reach his ceiling or close to it. Wills will grade out strong too with a high floor but not quite the sky high ceiling of Becton's.
Once again, I really think Jeremiah's take and ranking on these 4 were spot on.
This would be the ideal scenario... get Becton (or Wills) with a very slight tradedown with a QB desperate team.
I think all five tackles will be long gone by the time the 2nd round comes.
I think all five tackles will be long gone by the time the 2nd round comes.
You may be right on Jones. But to me he is still a notch below Becton. But I like his upside quite a bit too.
As for Wilson, I’d be thrilled if he lasted till our 2nd round pick but doubt he does. If I knew he would I’d happily draft OTs 1 and 2..
If you want one there are options but they should be taken after trading down.
Agreed. This OL has been in flux wayyyy too long. I think they are agressive this year in nailing it down and Becton makes the grade on their board.
As for Wilson, I’d be thrilled if he lasted till our 2nd round pick but doubt he does. If I knew he would I’d happily draft OTs 1 and 2..
Wirfs is a pro bowl OG or pretty good RT. Thomas has way too many technique issues and scares the heck out of me.
If we can engineer a trade down and get that extra 2nd rounder we can go OT#4(I like several) and then Ruiz in Round 2. Then it's defense, defense, defense and a WR like Slayton late. Sign ER Judon and CB Roby in free agency.
Whoever ranks as least risk at LT is where I would place my chip. Also remember that the physical talent of SB allows less than pancakes to more than get the job done. Lucky if you can touch him while being harassed, let alone drag him down.
Still like to see Conklin brought in at RT, but not at hyper-inflated price.
If we can engineer a trade down and get that extra 2nd rounder we can go OT#4(I like several) and then Ruiz in Round 2. Then it's defense, defense, defense and a WR like Slayton late. Sign ER Judon and CB Roby in free agency.
Ideal:
Slight trade down pick up Miami's 2nd our last first 26.
Resign: Golden (or Yannick Jags ER but Golden cheaper and Giants like to resign their own), Williams , underrated 2nd tier ER, decent coverage LB, vet starting CB
One vet FA lineman.
We are going to have close to 90 million and some of these guys above will be 2nd tier or 3rd tier.
If you want one there are options but they should be taken after trading down.
All of these guys have boom-or-bust potential. But in my estimation at this stage of the process, Thomas has the biggest boom-bust potential. I am a firm believer in taking OL early. Right now I would rank these guys as follows:
1. Becton
2. Wills
3. Thomas
4. Wirfs
I would be happy with Becton at #4. We will never be a dominant team without a dominant OL.
Quote:
That's spot on analysis. There is a just a little too much risk with him at #4. BTW I'm not arguing we should draft any of these OT's at #4. We shouldn't. None of them warrant that high of a pick. That's the point of the entire conversation of OT's in this class.
If you want one there are options but they should be taken after trading down.
All of these guys have boom-or-bust potential. But in my estimation at this stage of the process, Thomas has the biggest boom-bust potential. I am a firm believer in taking OL early. Right now I would rank these guys as follows:
1. Becton
2. Wills
3. Thomas
4. Wirfs
I would be happy with Becton at #4. We will never be a dominant team without a dominant OL.
If we are talking strictly LT it's Becton, Wills then a big drop. Jones, Prince have potential but are more developmental. Wirfs is not an LT. Thomas has way too much inconsistency and technique issues for my liking.
Becton
Quote:
my favorite tackles in this draft are - Becton, Charles, and Wanogho.
This is actually a good draft of very solid LTs. But there is no "can't miss" type, so it's tough to choose any of them at #4.
I think when the analysis of Becton is all said and done; Combine numbers, drill performance, footwork, interview , character, football IQ etc. he grades out as very high probability to reach his ceiling or close to it. Wills will grade out strong too with a high floor but not quite the sky high ceiling of Becton's.
Once again, I really think Jeremiah's take and ranking on these 4 were spot on.
I hear you. Lots of green arrows and momentum for Becton right now.
I'll admit, however, his size bothers me and I could see that being a problem. Maybe he's just a physical freak and the DNA just holds up for a long career. But I think there is some > than normal risk taking a guy this big at #4.
I've grown real fond of LSU's Saahdiq Charles. Really like how he's steadily improved and looks like a very good athlete. Has nice feet and good hands...
Quote:
Becton, Jed, Thomas, wirfs :) pre-combine?
TO be honest, I haven't followed college football as much as I have in the past. I'm kind of playing catch up right now.
I'm glad you're ultra confident in DG identifying OL. Because at this point he signed Solder to a record setting deal, and the guy is a turnstile. He signed Omaneh, and had to cut the guy halfway through the season because he was so bad. He keeps telling us not to sleep on Halapio, and that guy is awful. I think Hernandez will ultimately turn it around, but there is little to suggest that he as shown off his skills in identifying OL during his tenure with the Giants. I really don't care if five years ago he lucked out and got Norwell in Carolina.
1-Becton ( but not at 4, we absolutely need to trade down 8-10 pick for him)
2- Thomas (we may stay put at 4)
3- Wirfs ( we need to trade down 5-10 pick for him)
4- Willis ( we need to trade down 5-10 pick for him)
This is so seriously stupid it isn't worth a response, but PP handled it.
Quote:
In comment 14794309 bw in dc said:
Quote:
my favorite tackles in this draft are - Becton, Charles, and Wanogho.
This is actually a good draft of very solid LTs. But there is no "can't miss" type, so it's tough to choose any of them at #4.
I think when the analysis of Becton is all said and done; Combine numbers, drill performance, footwork, interview , character, football IQ etc. he grades out as very high probability to reach his ceiling or close to it. Wills will grade out strong too with a high floor but not quite the sky high ceiling of Becton's.
Once again, I really think Jeremiah's take and ranking on these 4 were spot on.
I hear you. Lots of green arrows and momentum for Becton right now.
I'll admit, however, his size bothers me and I could see that being a problem. Maybe he's just a physical freak and the DNA just holds up for a long career. But I think there is some > than normal risk taking a guy this big at #4.
I've grown real fond of LSU's Saahdiq Charles. Really like how he's steadily improved and looks like a very good athlete. Has nice feet and good hands...
Saddiq Charles and Josh Jones could be late risers. This is a pretty loaded class with LT hopefuls. The key with LT is pass protection and therefore big dudes with fluid and quick feet. There are quite a few this year that have potential to be good. But only a couple with the potential to be outright dominant. A decent LT vs. a dominant one is basically the difference of an 'in the prime' Solder or a 'in the prime' Tyron Smith. Both have first round value because of he importance of the position but one can destroy and eliminate defenders both in the run and pass game while the other is pretty good at protecting his QB just long enough for him to get the throw off fairly consistently. Then you have the LTs that can provide a bit of snarl in the running game but get beat a little more often in pass pro. Think David Diehl.
The guys that do both at an elite level are special. Becton has that ceiling. Wills has the ceiling to do both at a good to very good level but not necessarily dominant. Doesn't guarantee he reaches that level but there are a lot of positve intangibles (character, football IQ, steady improvement in technique etc.) that give you confidence he will.