My take on the first 4 picks in this year's draft

I'd swap picks with jags and take Yannick if that's what you're getting at. That being said a deal has to be in place. I'd def look OT at 9. You could also look into an ILB in free agency.

That being said if top3 is QB and Giants pass on young I will scream lol

getting the sense that BBIers are hoping against hope that Young will still be available to them.

In comment 14796806 Eric from BBI said:

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getting the sense that BBIers are hoping against hope that Young will still be available to them.

despise the Redskins, but that win didn't help us. This is one of the few times Sy and I disagree.

that we trade back and get as many extra draft picks as possible. But wouldn't it be nice if the Jags traded us that #6 guy we let fall to them last year and also exchange our #1 picks this year. That way we get our edge rusher, get a pretty good #1 starter and no one will complain we took Jones over Allen last year since we picked him up this year. Wishful thinking and probably won't happen.

And Miami backs up the truck, you have to make the move. It's a big if. I'd say the same for the Giants. Teams with many holes need more than one finger to plug them.

the Skins (and I mean their owner) don't/doesn't think they need a QB - and Young is a blue chip stud defensive player -- they'd be foolish to pass up on him. He's going to give the Giants nightmares for many years if he stays on the field

We need to give up that fantasy already. Burrow is the only QB guaranteed to go in the top 3.

In comment 14796806 Eric from BBI said:

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getting the sense that BBIers are hoping against hope that Young will still be available to them.

Definitely can happen - nobody expected Josh Allen at 6 last year.

1. Detroit's level of interest in a QB.
2. The league's evaluation of Tua.
3. The league's evaluation of Herbert.

The Giants just need one out of the three variables to go their way for them to come away with Okudah (or maybe Simmons). If two out of three go their way, they could be in great position to trade down. If three out three go their way, they could come away with Chase Young (or perhaps just a more ideal trade down scenario that sees them landing Okudah and Simmons along with extra picks).

In comment 14796805 BleedBlue said:

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I'd swap picks with jags and take Yannick if that's what you're getting at. That being said a deal has to be in place. I'd def look OT at 9. You could also look into an ILB in free agency. That being said if top3 is QB and Giants pass on young I will scream lol

In comment 14796817 Eric from BBI said:

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despise the Redskins, but that win didn't help us. This is one of the few times Sy and I disagree.

Agreed.

But people saying with certainty one way or another aren't getting it. We have no idea what teams would offer Washington. Miami's GM already said that the owner wants their future QB and he needs to make a move. With that said, what if Detroit stays put and drafts a QB? The only move Miami could make if Detroit isn't moving is to make Washington an offer they cannot refuse. Washington isn't a pass rusher away from competing. They, like us, have many needs. The odds are they do stay put and take Young. However, you have to evaluate the whole situation. If Mimai offers multiple picks 2 of which are firsts then they have to consider it. They can possibly get Okudah at 5 if they trade down and another OL later in the first and maybe another day 2 pick. It definitely has to be considered.

In comment 14796806 Eric from BBI said:

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getting the sense that BBIers are hoping against hope that Young will still be available to them.

Yes. Me too.

Washington is going C.Young....unless they are blown away with an offer.....Which Miami can easily do....for 2nd QB...Tua?

Lions going QB??? No so sure....but figure trade offers will still be available....but would they by pass C.Young....I doubt that very much.

Giants getting Chase Young is a pipedream....but who knows. I didn't expect J.Allen to drop and he did.

Chargers at 6 could be a great trading partner. I need more than a 3 this year though. Gimme a 2nd rounder this year to start and we're talking turkey. The Jets traded 3 2nd round picks to the Colts to move up from 6 to 3 to select Darnold. I want something comparable.

Eventually NFL.com will post a numerical grade evaluation of Young, and it will be at least a half point higher than their grade on Allen. (Caveat - they are not consistent from year to year...)

But Young on tape is on a different tier from Allen, and I would bet his combine performance will reflect that too. Opponents didn't game plan vs Allen nearly to the same extent they game planned vs Young IMO.

I thought he was on schedule...?

He's still in his prime and was playing great before he got hurt.

Detroit has real problems - and those problems are deep and wide on defense. They are going Okudah or Brown.

In comment 14796837 robbieballs2003 said:

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But people saying with certainty one way or another aren't getting it. We have no idea what teams would offer Washington. Miami's GM already said that the owner wants their future QB and he needs to make a move. With that said, what if Detroit stays put and drafts a QB? The only move Miami could make if Detroit isn't moving is to make Washington an offer they cannot refuse. Washington isn't a pass rusher away from competing. They, like us, have many needs. The odds are they do stay put and take Young. However, you have to evaluate the whole situation. If Mimai offers multiple picks 2 of which are firsts then they have to consider it. They can possibly get Okudah at 5 if they trade down and another OL later in the first and maybe another day 2 pick. It definitely has to be considered.

robbie, I'm not saying that's not possible - it certainly is possible - and if it does then the Giants have to pull the trigger on Young at 4 -- the tea leaves and things I'm reading all point to the Bengals and Lions picking a QB. If you think about it - the Lions picking a QB will buy Patricia and company at least a third year at the helm and patience from their owner. They can't afford to go into next season with Stafford - he is a walking time bomb, and a retread is not a real solution for them

In comment 14796806 Eric from BBI said:

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getting the sense that BBIers are hoping against hope that Young will still be available to them.

+1 ... We still are going to get a good player on either side of the ball.

has a boatload of #1's and #2's this draft and next. They can make an offer that a team ahead of them can't refuse.

In comment 14796806 Eric from BBI said:

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getting the sense that BBIers are hoping against hope that Young will still be available to them.

Yep. Some serious wishful thinking going on here...

My post wasn't directed at you. In fact, I was basically agreeing with you with respect to the fact that Washington could trade out.

My post was about those who are so certain that Washington will not trade out before knowing what an offer would be.

In comment 14796806 Eric from BBI said:

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getting the sense that BBIers are hoping against hope that Young will still be available to them.

I think that Washington is gonna get their cake, and eat it too. If Detroit is in the market for a QB, they might need to trade up to Washington’s spot to get the guy they want.

In comment 14796847 Professor Falken said:

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has a boatload of #1's and #2's this draft and next. They can make an offer that a team ahead of them can't refuse.

Miami doesn't need to trade up because neither Washington nor the Giants are drafting a QB.

Do the math. If you think 3 QBs are top 5 worthy selection an the teams at 2 and 4 aren't drafting a QB, and the team at 3 also unlikely to draft a QB, you wouldn't rush to offer up a ton of picks to move up.

Not until you get a real sense that the guys picking after you want to jump your slot for their fave QB.

You trade down. Simmons is not a fit on this team with Peppers and we e already invested heavily in CB.

I like the way you took the torch and ran with it!

In comment 14796847 Professor Falken said:

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has a boatload of #1's and #2's this draft and next. They can make an offer that a team ahead of them can't refuse.

Put it this way, if the Giants were sitting at #2, it would be hard to pass up on two 1s, two 2s, and more. Chase is not LT, just say'in. It all depends on Miami's thirst for Tua and Washingtons over-valuation of Young.

In comment 14796853 BlueLou'sBack said:

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Miami doesn't need to trade up because neither Washington nor the Giants are drafting a QB. Do the math. If you think 3 QBs are top 5 worthy selection an the teams at 2 and 4 aren't drafting a QB, and the team at 3 also unlikely to draft a QB, you wouldn't rush to offer up a ton of picks to move up. Not until you get a real sense that the guys picking after you want to jump your slot for their fave QB.

Blue Lou - If 4 teams between pick 4 and 9 need a quarterback and are willing to trade to 4 or above and get one -- then Miami at 5 has to trade to beat out the other three

In comment 14796853 BlueLou'sBack said:

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Miami doesn't need to trade up because neither Washington nor the Giants are drafting a QB.

But both the Redskins and Giants could easily trade with teams who want a QB.

was 27th in the league in pass defense. Norman is a disaster at corner. They could be eyeing Okudah all the way...

And Detroit couldn't get a pass rush or stop the pass all year. They were 30th is sacks.

I think it's clearing up that they are the firewall for Young. And he doesn't get by Detroit...

In comment 14796853 BlueLou'sBack said:

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Not until you get a real sense that the guys picking after you want to jump your slot for their fave QB.

If they're smart, they already have that "real sense" about the guys picking after them. They'd have to be blind (or in denial) not to recognize the very real possibility.

though DG has never done so, I think there's a real possibility we'll trade down. Part of the reason he traded Beckham was to get more picks. Without more picks we'll have to again watch another 65 or so picks come off the board between the top of the second round and our comp pick for Collins at the bottom of the third. We also already have a QB.

None of this matters though if Young is still on the board because the QBs go one, two, three. I just don't see that happening. One of Tua or Herbert will still likely be available at #4.

In comment 14796861 bw in dc said:

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I think it's clearing up that they are the firewall for Young. And he doesn't get by Detroit...

It depends on Detroit's views on Stafford, Tua, and Herbert. If they believe Stafford's expiration date is 2020 or 2021, it puts them firmly in the QB market.

In comment 14796854 Doubledeuce22 said:

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You trade down. Simmons is not a fit on this team with Peppers and we e already invested heavily in CB.

Simmons is not a safety but a OLB who can move to many different spots. He is perfect for the fast pace offenses the Giants will play the next few years.

Dropping back makes the most sense - but does DG know how?

If we don't have "OUR GUY" still on the board at #4... Dave worries me in "equity negotiations.." Again, if "OUR GUY" is there... u take him - regardless.

In comment 14796858 gidiefor said:

Quote:

In comment 14796853 BlueLou'sBack said: Quote: Miami doesn't need to trade up because neither Washington nor the Giants are drafting a QB. Do the math. If you think 3 QBs are top 5 worthy selection an the teams at 2 and 4 aren't drafting a QB, and the team at 3 also unlikely to draft a QB, you wouldn't rush to offer up a ton of picks to move up. Not until you get a real sense that the guys picking after you want to jump your slot for their fave QB. Blue Lou - If 4 teams between pick 4 and 9 need a quarterback and are willing to trade to 4 or above and get one -- then Miami at 5 has to trade to beat out the other three

Jags might be willing to ride out Files/Minshew for a year or more, not dead sure they're in the hunt.

What happens to Jameis Winston? Who is willing to wait for Sunshine and Fields and whomever else I'm forgetting coming out in 2021?

What about Brady?

It's not a sure thing everyone you mentioned is even looking for a QB, let alone to draft one this year. WTF happened to Josh Rosen? Last year Sy, myself, and several others here still thought he could develop into a fine NFL QB....

any of these guys (and then list of four or five names) would be great, well, GM's don't think like that.

They identify a guy they want, with some emergency plans, and go get their guy.

I don't know if that thinking is right or wrong, but that's how GM's operate from what I've seen

nor foals.

In comment 14796880 SirYesSir said:

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any of these guys (and then list of four or five names) would be great, well, GM's don't think like that. They identify a guy they want, with some emergency plans, and go get their guy. I don't know if that thinking is right or wrong, but that's how GM's operate from what I've seen

Good point, but said GMs also typically have a price in mind that they won't exceed just because.

a seasonal ailment every year on BBI!

All good fun to see what happens. Nothing will ever top the year that Matt in Syracuse called a couple of the top picks. Too funny.

As we think. If I’m Miami and I really want a specific QB, I push for a trade with Detroit. If the Lions say no, I see what the Giants are asking. If it’s a ransom I hold tight and call the bluff. Things get more interesting if the Lions take Tua or Herbert. Then maybe the Dolphins or another team gets nervous.

In comment 14796880 SirYesSir said:

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any of these guys (and then list of four or five names) would be great, well, GM's don't think like that. They identify a guy they want, with some emergency plans, and go get their guy. I don't know if that thinking is right or wrong, but that's how GM's operate from what I've seen

And that's also exactly WHY a team like Washington won't give away slot 2 where they can in all likelihood draft Young or wy Detroit might already have Okudah penciled in.

No cluster of other guys might be worth giving up the guy you want and know you can get at your slot.

Maybe a small possibility they trade out and take the corner.That wouldn't be good for us,but,we'll see.

If that's the case,I would see if Miami wants to secure Tua. Maybe ask for a 2,a 3, and the Texans 2021 1st round pick.Don't have to be greedy here.

too many variables, including free agency, it's just a crapshoot. In ideal world, we can drop 1-2 spots, pick up a 2nd round pick + another pick in 2021.

In comment 14796806 Eric from BBI said:

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getting the sense that BBIers are hoping against hope that Young will still be available to them.

Get used to it, it's going to be the pipe dream until his name is called at #2. Ron Rivera didn't take that job to draft a QB or be crafty, he wants another Julius Peppers and he'll have it.

In comment 14796817 Eric from BBI said:

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despise the Redskins, but that win didn't help us. This is one of the few times Sy and I disagree.

Eric:

With all due respect, if we had lost that game, and Jones ended the year on a personal 10 game losing streak, do you have any idea what the dialogue would be about Jones at that point. Forget about wanting Young, the entire board would be demanding we take a QB of our own at 2.

I am not sold on Young as a prospect. I think he will be good. I also think we can get someone just as good at 4. And - as Sy pointed out - how often through the years have the guys picked at 4 turned out better than the guys picked at 2? Remember the Robinson/Sammy Watkins draft? Greg Robinson was a massive bust and Watkins really has done little of note when not paired with Mahomes. We got Beckham that year in the teens. Aaron Donald and Zack Martin also went in the teens that year.

A couple years ago, the second pick was Trubisky. The 10th pick (Mahomes) and 12th pick (Watson) turned out much better at the same position.

I've said this before, and I will say it again. So long as Gettleman is open to trading down, we are in prime position picking at #4. With all the QB needy teams picking right behind us, someone will look to move up for Tua or Herbert. It was not too long ago that both those guys were being discussed as potential top overall picks, until flavor of the month Burrow came along. Herbert already tore up the Senior Bowl week, and he is the type of guy that will tear up the Combine. If Tua is healthy, there is no doubt he is going top 5. If somehow those guys go 1-2-3, then we'll get Young anyway. If not, we should definitely trade down and add picks, because that is what we need more than anything.

In comment 14796806 Eric from BBI said:

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getting the sense that BBIers are hoping against hope that Young will still be available to them.

And if that's the case, it's only because that Young's stock is falling like some are already saying.

your post is more full of holes than a block of swiss cheese or my kitchen colander. You might say it's holier than the Pope, the Dome of the Rock, the Temple mount and the Acropolis all put together.

You offer entirely contradictory historical facts as having some kind of predictive value on the upcoming draft...

I take it you never competed on a debate team or argued a case in court...

You mention the Trubisky (drafted 2nd overall), Mahomes (10th) and Watson (12th) draft as an example of how sometimes players (specifically QBs) drafted later turned out better than the guy drafted earlier... And then you assert that the Giants should have a great opportunity to trade down with teams looking to move up for a QB!!!!

You point out how several high picks flop, and then claim what the Giants need is MORE PICKS.

What they need is to get their one pick (or more if they do trade down) RIGHT.

That's all that your evidence truly points to.

When the Giants selected OBJ and left Aaron Donald on the board, they FLOPPED. Donald it turned out was the far, far better choice, a truly transformative player. Beckham, although an excellent player, was never transformative and turned into a headache.

You dig up Trubisky from 4 years ago but ignore last year's #2 pick, Joey Bosa, who just happens to have played the same position at the same school Chase Young played at.

Bosa was a big part of SF's transformation from scraping bottom to playing in the SB, and most folks think Young is just as good if not better than Bosa.

So why are you digging among the scrap heaps of NFL drafts to bolster yourself?

Because you don't want to believe Eric is right? The Giants really fucked themselves by beating the Redskins, IMO. And Young is in all likelihood becoming a Redskin.

Would rather spite his franchise, then let Young, fall to the Giants.

In comment 14796912 BlueLou'sBack said:

Quote:

your post is more full of holes than a block of swiss cheese or my kitchen colander. You might say it's holier than the Pope, the Dome of the Rock, the Temple mount and the Acropolis all put together. You offer entirely contradictory historical facts as having some kind of predictive value on the upcoming draft... I take it you never competed on a debate team or argued a case in court... You mention the Trubisky (drafted 2nd overall), Mahomes (10th) and Watson (12th) draft as an example of how sometimes players (specifically QBs) drafted later turned out better than the guy drafted earlier... And then you assert that the Giants should have a great opportunity to trade down with teams looking to move up for a QB!!!! You point out how several high picks flop, and then claim what the Giants need is MORE PICKS. What they need is to get their one pick (or more if they do trade down) RIGHT. That's all that your evidence truly points to. When the Giants selected OBJ and left Aaron Donald on the board, they FLOPPED. Donald it turned out was the far, far better choice, a truly transformative player. Beckham, although an excellent player, was never transformative and turned into a headache. You dig up Trubisky from 4 years ago but ignore last year's #2 pick, Joey Bosa, who just happens to have played the same position at the same school Chase Young played at. Bosa was a big part of SF's transformation from scraping bottom to playing in the SB, and most folks think Young is just as good if not better than Bosa. So why are you digging among the scrap heaps of NFL drafts to bolster yourself? Because you don't want to believe Eric is right? The Giants really fucked themselves by beating the Redskins, IMO. And Young is in all likelihood becoming a Redskin.

I don't have enough room on this board to sit here and post reason after reason. I am, in fact, an attorney and a litigator at that. It is your choice whether to think I am a good one or not, but I'm not going to debate that with you on this stage.

The biggest reason for SF's turnaround from this year to last is not Bosa - though he helped tremendously - but it is getting Jimmy G. back from a torn ACL. SF also acquired Dee Ford in the offseason, and the metrics with him on the field versus him off of it are alarming. That team last year also lost a slew of close games, and this year that turned around, somewhat simply due to the law of averages.

Personally, I don't care what people tell me about Young vs. Bosa. It's not that I don't think Young is a very good player or has the chance to be one in the NFL. I am simply saying that right now all he does is run around the edge, and that is something he will have to improve upon greatly. I believe Okudah is actually the best defensive player in the draft, but I do agree with other posters that we badly need EDGE rushers and have spent several premium picks on DBs in the last two drafts.

I'm really not sure what else to say. At pick #4, teams are going to be looking to move up to get a QB. I'd be shocked if DG is not offered a haul for the pick. Really. I think Detroit will receive big offers for the 3 pick as well. Due to the buzz on Young - perception is reality - I do not see them moving off of that spot for him. I think Rivera took the job, in part, because he expects to get him there. Burrow is going first, obviously. I also believe Snyder will not let them dump Haskins after one year, anyway. That was his pick last year, and he will not let them move on now.

At this point, all I can do is go to the archives to show that the Giants should be offered multiple premium picks to move down. In 2018, the Jets gave up three second round picks to move up from 6 to 3. The Bills gave up, I believe, two second round picks to move up to get Allen. The Cards gave up at least a third, if not more, to move up from 15 to 10 to get Rosen.

With the Dolphins, Chargers, Panthers (sitting at picks 5-7) - and quite possibly Jax, TB, and others - looking for a QB, the Giants will have ample opportunity to move down in this draft. No, I don't know if Gettleman will tell us he was offered hot coffee and donuts for the pick and then select at #4 no matter what.

I hope that addresses the perceived "holes" in my statement above.

In comment 14796912 BlueLou'sBack said:

Quote:

your post is more full of holes than a block of swiss cheese or my kitchen colander. You might say it's holier than the Pope, the Dome of the Rock, the Temple mount and the Acropolis all put together. You offer entirely contradictory historical facts as having some kind of predictive value on the upcoming draft... I take it you never competed on a debate team or argued a case in court... You mention the Trubisky (drafted 2nd overall), Mahomes (10th) and Watson (12th) draft as an example of how sometimes players (specifically QBs) drafted later turned out better than the guy drafted earlier... And then you assert that the Giants should have a great opportunity to trade down with teams looking to move up for a QB!!!! You point out how several high picks flop, and then claim what the Giants need is MORE PICKS. What they need is to get their one pick (or more if they do trade down) RIGHT. That's all that your evidence truly points to. When the Giants selected OBJ and left Aaron Donald on the board, they FLOPPED. Donald it turned out was the far, far better choice, a truly transformative player. Beckham, although an excellent player, was never transformative and turned into a headache. You dig up Trubisky from 4 years ago but ignore last year's #2 pick, Joey Bosa, who just happens to have played the same position at the same school Chase Young played at. Bosa was a big part of SF's transformation from scraping bottom to playing in the SB, and most folks think Young is just as good if not better than Bosa. So why are you digging among the scrap heaps of NFL drafts to bolster yourself? Because you don't want to believe Eric is right? The Giants really fucked themselves by beating the Redskins, IMO. And Young is in all likelihood becoming a Redskin.

One more thing. At least when the Giants selected OBJ, they picked a transformative player. And we have no idea right now whether they screwed themselves by winning that game. If that game is a springboard for Jones becoming a franchise guy - Eli refers to the Dallas win at the end of his rookie year as a springboard to his success - then it was worth it. We also have to wait and see who the selections are. Right now, they are all prospects, and none of us have any idea how these guys will turn out.

Is it possible Young becomes a HOFer and screws us for 15 years? Sure. But what happens if we, for example, move from 4 to 6, pick up an extra couple premium picks in the process, and then get a guy like Jerry Jeudy or a premium OT at that spot? Then what? Wouldn't you view that as a success?

We're simply not going to know for years whether the Giants' win screwed them. What I do know is if Jones had finished the year 2-10 (and on a 10 game losing streak), that we would have thread after thread on whether he is a winner, does he suck, etc. It was important for him to win that game against Washington, even if it did screw us out of the second pick.

They would be drafting 2nd.....so stop harping on the Washington win....the Dolphins and Tampa would have accomplished the same thing.

The pressure to acquire a QB will be high and ig Cinn. takes one right away...it will add more.

Both Ohio St defenders are special enough to not take a trade down offer....but as we all know, there will be more then 2 great players in this draft.

(blue, who seems to want debate everyone, I never said Allen is in same league as Young....just that I didn't expect to slide and yes....I negotiate multi million dollars deals and won several debate awards when younger...with that....)

I too suspect much banter about the early picks.....and it will be interesting to see how the pressure for a QB and desire for the chosen blue chipper.....plays out.

I predict....if Redskins and Detroit stay put and draft the Ohio St players.....the Giants should be getting ridiculous offers to move just a few a spots.

That this plays into a 4 player draft with the 3 QBs and Young. The value for us is in a trade down, not selecting a player not named Young at 4. It may well play out that way, and Miami sitting behind us certainly helps, but we need 3 QBs to rise to tier 1.

To take Tua. Then Giants have to decide whether they want to take Okudah or trade down with the Chargers.

is Detroit trades out of 3.

So 2 QBs and Young are gone when Giants are up.

Hopefully other teams will want the 3rd QB and trade up with the Giants. But we'll have to see have free agency plays out.

In comment 14796926 jeff57 said:

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To take Tua. Then Giants have to decide whether they want to take Okudah or trade down with the Chargers.

That is a distinct possibility. The Lions could also take Tue for themselves. The draft will truly start with them at 3 since Burrows and Young seem set to go 1st and 2nd overall to the Bungles and Foreskins respectively. The Giants will very likely get "sloppy seconds" with regard to QB trade offers in such a scenario, but that still should be plenty good. Chargers will make a good partner in that case.

In comment 14796928 ZogZerg said:

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is Detroit trades out of 3. So 2 QBs and Young are gone when Giants are up. Hopefully other teams will want the 3rd QB and trade up with the Giants. But we'll have to see have free agency plays out.

Agree 100% with this. Hopefully Tua’s health checks out, and Herbert continues to impress. Not getting my hopes up that Young will drop, but hoping the Giants can trade down and pick up an asset or two of Young is gone. Worst case scenario, they get Okudah, a projected shutdown corner. That’s not a bad position to be in

that Josh Allen drops to us at #6 last year. Yer dreamin’.

In comment 14796837 robbieballs2003 said:

Quote:

But people saying with certainty one way or another aren't getting it. We have no idea what teams would offer Washington. Miami's GM already said that the owner wants their future QB and he needs to make a move. With that said, what if Detroit stays put and drafts a QB? The only move Miami could make if Detroit isn't moving is to make Washington an offer they cannot refuse. Washington isn't a pass rusher away from competing. They, like us, have many needs. The odds are they do stay put and take Young. However, you have to evaluate the whole situation. If Mimai offers multiple picks 2 of which are firsts then they have to consider it. They can possibly get Okudah at 5 if they trade down and another OL later in the first and maybe another day 2 pick. It definitely has to be considered.

Rob, I agree with you. I think it makes too much sense for Detroit to take a QB. We bitched endlessly about Eli's $5M roster bonuses due the last few year's of his contract. Well, Stafford will have $10M roster bonuses next year and on. He isn't getting younger (or healthier) and they likely aren't going to be in position without giving up future draft capital to select a QB. They are stuck with him for this coming season, but they can release/trade him before the roster bonus is due for a $13M dead cap hit. Knowing they have his successor in the fold, they can recoup a 3rd rounder or more by trading him for the same cap hit. That leads to the determination of Miami in getting their guy. They aren't going to sit back and settle for QB3. Ross isn't getting any younger and he will determined to get his guy. Knowing that he has to get to #2 at least, I think he tries and blows away Cincy for the #1 pick. What another 1st rounder when you are already packaging all 3? Ross will offer his 2 additional 1st rounders and then some to swap picks with Washington to get his guy.

In comment 14796883 BlueLou'sBack said:

Quote:

In comment 14796880 SirYesSir said: Quote: any of these guys (and then list of four or five names) would be great, well, GM's don't think like that. They identify a guy they want, with some emergency plans, and go get their guy. I don't know if that thinking is right or wrong, but that's how GM's operate from what I've seen Good point, but said GMs also typically have a price in mind that they won't exceed just because.

But it isn't just a GM where the buck stops. Ross is determined to get his guy. A billionaire who is staring at his mortality and realizing they haven't been relevant at QB since Marino. He will get his guy.

And then we have Teppers who is one of the wealthiest NFL owners making it rain on a rookie HC and facilities. He doesn't want a cross-dressing china doll to represent his franchise going forward. I think he will put the pressure on the QB draft dynamic.

the Giants will have the choice of Okudah or trading down. If Okudah's grade is "shut down" then you take him imo.

Spend FA money on front 7 and draft heavy OL with more front 7 sprinkled in and a receiver. Deep draft for OL and WR.

for 4th overall

In comment 14796853 BlueLou'sBack said:

Quote:

In comment 14796847 Professor Falken said: Quote: has a boatload of #1's and #2's this draft and next. They can make an offer that a team ahead of them can't refuse. Miami doesn't need to trade up because neither Washington nor the Giants are drafting a QB. Do the math. If you think 3 QBs are top 5 worthy selection an the teams at 2 and 4 aren't drafting a QB, and the team at 3 also unlikely to draft a QB, you wouldn't rush to offer up a ton of picks to move up. Not until you get a real sense that the guys picking after you want to jump your slot for their fave QB.

The math makes sense if no trade ups occur. If you are Miami, and someone like the Chargers or Jags are talking to the Giants and Lions, wouldn't you want to get involved in that conversation? Miami can certainly trade up to secure the QB thay prefer.

versus the pretzels offered in the past.

I feel like I am the only one on this board that isn't drooling over Young...

In comment 14796945 muhajir said:

Quote:

for 4th overall

If anyone is wondering when it is too early to start drinking, muhajir set the under at 7:34 AM.

In comment 14796917 Giants38 said:

Quote:

We're simply not going to know for years whether the Giants' win screwed them. What I do know is if Jones had finished the year 2-10 (and on a 10 game losing streak), that we would have thread after thread on whether he is a winner, does he suck, etc. It was important for him to win that game against Washington, even if it did screw us out of the second pick.

That is an interesting take that you really think Jones needed to win that Washington game.

If Jones’s stat line was still the same, except one less TD because the Skins would have theoretically won the game in overtime instead, that would have set in motion more “replace Jones” type threads...? Hmmm.

I think most reasonable posters know the Giants had/have gaping holes on both sides of the ball and would understand there is only so much Jones can do in a game to cover those holes. So I don’t think beating the Skins meant anything for Jones. But it was definitely detrimental in our ability to have more options in this draft...

In comment 14796932 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

that Josh Allen drops to us at #6 last year. Yer dreamin’.

You might want to stop using "Josh Allen dropping" last year as a comp as to how Chase Young could drop to 4 this year.

Just Google "top 50 or top 100 players in the NFL draft" for this year and you'll find that almost all the talent evaluators have Chase Young rated as the best player in the draft.

Now do the same Google search for last year (pre-draft) to see if you can find even one draft guy who rated Josh Allen as the best player in the draft.

It's highly unlikely that the 'Skins would pass on Young and if they ever did, Detroit would do a mad dash to turn in their card with Young's name on it.

It would take two teams being incredibly stupid for Young to drop to 4...and thinking that even one team will pass on Young is a big stretch.

The Allen and Young situations are totally different. Apples and oranges.

GBN's early look at the 2021 draft shows that it is again strong in WRs and OLine. No need to reach Oline at #4 this year, pick a strong C in round 2 and wait till next year to complete the OLine rebuild.

that three QBs are a hot commodity, I don't think any scenario is out of play. Adding Young to the hot commodity list means the 4th draft spot is highly sought after (including the option of keeping it).

What screws us is only 2 QBs are hot, and they, and Young, go ahead of us. We're still in good shape, but not premium good shape, assuming the top tier only has 4 players on it.

Don't be so sure Young is the big hope against hope. Plenty of us are stroking our good luck charms daily, praying a good trade down falls into our laps.

is going to cost us in the draft.

but I don't think the field is that strong outside of Burrow. Makes me less inclined to think teams will give up the farm. Tua has a serious injury flag and Herbert underwhelmed in the actual games. Would you feel comfortable giving up a ton of draft capital for either?

In comment 14796938 Lines of Scrimmage said:

Quote:

the Giants will have the choice of Okudah or trading down. If Okudah's grade is "shut down" then you take him imo.

maybe I'm crazy but if given the choice of facing Okudah 2x /yr or Young - I'd prefer to take my chances with young.

In comment 14796978 JonC said:

Quote:

is going to cost us in the draft.

Such is life. The players weren't going to stop playing and the coaches weren't going to stop coaching (I know you aren't insinuating this).

The only shot we have at Young is if QB's are taken 1-3 which I really don't see happening. Either that or a trade up which I pray we wouldn't do.

else (anything is possible with lil Danny in charge) and 3 QBs go in a row, if I'm DG I run (or have a younger guy run) to the podium and take Young. He's the difference maker they need on defense.

In comment 14796956 Diver_Down said:

Quote:

In comment 14796945 muhajir said: Quote: for 4th overall If anyone is wondering when it is too early to start drinking, muhajir set the under at 7:34 AM.

Whats wrong with that idea?

Yannicks a free agent so its basically a sign and trade for the Jags (im not sure of the cap implications for the trading team) and Josh Allen was taken 7th overall and looks like a great player so far. Both for 4th overall.

Jags get their franchise QB at 4 and keep their 1st. Giants
get two young great bookend pass rushers with 1 pick.

Par for the course this time of year, with the added bonus of lamenting the win over the Redskins.

Giants rarely trade (last one 2004) and it will be hard trading with someone bc the giants would likely end up on short under value trade (maybe trading or swapping their first and maybe getting a 5th or 7th rd pick)

A lot of dreaming though

In comment 14796978 JonC said:

Quote:

is going to cost us in the draft.

What's done is done. It is time to move on to the reality that is having the 4th pick.

Some of you think that signing an Edge rusher is gonna be impossible this March.

I'll throw this scenario out there:

Suppose the Giants are able to sign a young 25 year old ER who is entering his prime to a 6 year deal and draft one of Okudah, Simmons or trade back and pick up K'Lavon Chaisson. and get an extra pick.

How would our defense look then?

Chase Young is a great player but holy shit between FA and the draft there are other edge rushers available and we will probably be over $80 Million in cap space. It is ok to spend money on an edge rusher because of the value of the position.

Gettlemen said at one of his press conferences that we NEED to add a pass rusher. Expect an investment in the position.

In comment 14797007 micky said:

Quote:

Giants rarely trade (last one 2004) and it will be hard trading with someone bc the giants would likely end up on short under value trade (maybe trading or swapping their first and maybe getting a 5th or 7th rd pick) A lot of dreaming though

The Giants traded back with Pittsburgh in 2006 and the Giants drafted Kiwanuka so it does happen.

more interesting than it has been for a few years.

There is always a lot of speculation about trades, but this year the teams near the top seem to have more options.

In comment 14797011 Rjanyg said:

Quote:

In comment 14796978 JonC said: Quote: is going to cost us in the draft. What's done is done. It is time to move on to the reality that is having the 4th pick. Some of you think that signing an Edge rusher is gonna be impossible this March. I'll throw this scenario out there: Suppose the Giants are able to sign a young 25 year old ER who is entering his prime to a 6 year deal and draft one of Okudah, Simmons or trade back and pick up K'Lavon Chaisson. and get an extra pick. How would our defense look then? Chase Young is a great player but holy shit between FA and the draft there are other edge rushers available and we will probably be over $80 Million in cap space. It is ok to spend money on an edge rusher because of the value of the position. Gettlemen said at one of his press conferences that we NEED to add a pass rusher. Expect an investment in the position.

I'm not complaining rather pointing out the reality in light of the OP.

UFA likely means spending stupid money on a player that is yet to produce ten sacks, color me unimpressed. I'm ok with Okudah as the consolation prize. But, bot not seeing UFA making up for the miss on Young. Zero interest in Simmons.

In comment 14797019 JonC said:

Quote:

In comment 14797011 Rjanyg said: Quote: In comment 14796978 JonC said: Quote: is going to cost us in the draft. What's done is done. It is time to move on to the reality that is having the 4th pick. Some of you think that signing an Edge rusher is gonna be impossible this March. I'll throw this scenario out there: Suppose the Giants are able to sign a young 25 year old ER who is entering his prime to a 6 year deal and draft one of Okudah, Simmons or trade back and pick up K'Lavon Chaisson. and get an extra pick. How would our defense look then? Chase Young is a great player but holy shit between FA and the draft there are other edge rushers available and we will probably be over $80 Million in cap space. It is ok to spend money on an edge rusher because of the value of the position. Gettlemen said at one of his press conferences that we NEED to add a pass rusher. Expect an investment in the position. I'm not complaining rather pointing out the reality in light of the OP. UFA likely means spending stupid money on a player that is yet to produce ten sacks, color me unimpressed. I'm ok with Okudah as the consolation prize. But, bot not seeing UFA making up for the miss on Young. Zero interest in Simmons.

I respect your opinions very much Jon, always have.

2 things: Yannick Ngakoue is only 25 and entering his prime. We all love sack numbers but I look at the consistent production over the last 4 years. The guy has a nasty get off and will bring legitimate speed and pressure to our defense.

Isaiah Simmons is a physical freak. The guy was timed at 4.31 in the 40 yard dash as a freshmen. He is very instinctual and versatile. The NFL off ball LB position has changed and he can do it all. Is he a thumper? No. He is an excellent blitzer, can cover TE, RB and WR. He can play in any scheme and on all downs. People have to stop saying that Peppers and Simmons play the same position because they don't. I remember when the Giants had Phillips, Rolle and Grant on the field at the same time and it was pretty successful. Simmons is not limited by our imagination. The kid is unique. Doesn't make him valueless.

your thoughts than the post I initially attacked as self contradictory.

What your position seems to boil down to is that Young is overrated and more or less a one trick pony with outside speed and bend as a pass rusher.

At this point the entire draft community - for what they are worth - most scouts who've spoken up, and it seems the majority of BBI opinion does not agree with you, but surely time will tell.

If I ruffled your feathers forgive me, you've been more than courteous with clear level headed responses.

We can agree to disagree about Young's value.

In comment 14797007 micky said:

Quote:

Giants rarely trade (last one 2004) and it will be hard trading with someone bc the giants would likely end up on short under value trade (maybe trading or swapping their first and maybe getting a 5th or 7th rd pick) A lot of dreaming though

The Kiwi trade was already referenced, but outside of that one downward, the Giants have made several draft day trades since 2004. Heck, they made a trade last season to move up for Baker.

Looking back, there have been fewer seasons not executing a trade than seasons where they traded.

The issue with Ngakoue is financial...if we pay $20M per for him we've weakened the war chest for other help. Unfortunate side effect of a capped league, got to spend wisely. Can't just say "we've got $60M", it's just as likely Yannik is OV 2.0 in terms of getting your money's worth.

I'm going to avoid Simmons talk, I have no interest in him especially at #4.

Oh well, you can't lose em' all.

Lord knows, they come close...

In comment 14797053 JonC said:

Quote:

The issue with Ngakoue is financial...if we pay $20M per for him we've weakened the war chest for other help. Unfortunate side effect of a capped league, got to spend wisely. Can't just say "we've got $60M", it's just as likely Yannik is OV 2.0 in terms of getting your money's worth. I'm going to avoid Simmons talk, I have no interest in him especially at #4.

Yes, financial is always an issue. Pass rushers are a premium and get paid. Nobody wants a bad contract but we have space and need.

Do you have a preference of a pass rusher in the draft or FA not named Chase Young? I haven't heard your plan on fixing this issue.

it doesn't get fixed this offseason. I expect they'll throw money at one or two, but the draft options will be value adds like last year. I'd be looking at 2021 free agents to see who could be there.

His talent is there, but he's likely not a 16-game player, and I don't know how you can value that.

it's what makes draft time so much fun!
DG has a history of never trading down...but this year it makes too much sense not to, especially with so many needs around the NFL at the QB position.

How about this scenario - I think this is actually the prime year to trade down, not once, but twice!

There's a lot of really good QB prospects this year that aren't named Herbert, Tua, and Burrow.

Teams are going to target Fromm, Hurts, Eason and Love. Those are 4 guys that are going to be in demand once the big dogs go and may have to make a move to jump some teams in the middle/end of the 1st round and at the beginning of the second to get them.

A team like Chicago (who has 2 2nd picks) and the Raiders (who have 2 1st rd picks and 3 3rd picks) come to mind as teams that probably aren't thrilled with the QB they got maybe looking to make a move and have the draft capital to do it.

Talk about finally completely revamping the entire roster and creating competition at every position.

It seems to me that beyond Young and maybe Okudah and Simmons there really aren't any red chip guys - but there's a lot of blue chippers. Let's start collecting NFL talent again.

In comment 14797115 JonC said:

Quote:

it doesn't get fixed this offseason. I expect they'll throw money at one or two, but the draft options will be value adds like last year. I'd be looking at 2021 free agents to see who could be there.

That's a sad commentary on the state of the team, and an even sadder commentary on a GM who made it clear that rushing the passer was one of his top priorities.

interest in Ngakoue, Conklin, or any other high priced FA. Build through the draft.

As I said, one of Tua or Herbet is likely to be available at #4. The value of trading down and getting extra picks is almost certainly greater than anyone we could take at #4 in that situation. And if the QBs go one, two, three, then just take Young.

In comment 14797132 Dnew15 said:

Quote:

it's what makes draft time so much fun! DG has a history of never trading down...but this year it makes too much sense not to, especially with so many needs around the NFL at the QB position. How about this scenario - I think this is actually the prime year to trade down, not once, but twice! There's a lot of really good QB prospects this year that aren't named Herbert, Tua, and Burrow. Teams are going to target Fromm, Hurts, Eason and Love. Those are 4 guys that are going to be in demand once the big dogs go and may have to make a move to jump some teams in the middle/end of the 1st round and at the beginning of the second to get them. A team like Chicago (who has 2 2nd picks) and the Raiders (who have 2 1st rd picks and 3 3rd picks) come to mind as teams that probably aren't thrilled with the QB they got maybe looking to make a move and have the draft capital to do it. Talk about finally completely revamping the entire roster and creating competition at every position. It seems to me that beyond Young and maybe Okudah and Simmons there really aren't any red chip guys - but there's a lot of blue chippers. Let's start collecting NFL talent again.

I like where your head is at... would love to trade down. This team needs such a quantity of players it screams trade down.

But

This isn't directed at you, but just in general

What gives any of us the hope that DG has the foresight or skill to pull off a successful trade down? Not bashing him but from the last few years, he's a "lock into 1 guy and pick him no matter what when our spot comes up" kind of draft strategist.

In comment 14797162 AcidTest said:

Quote:

interest in Ngakoue, Conklin, or any other high priced FA. Build through the draft.

No team builds exclusively through the draft anymore, and the Giants are no exception. They just need to be smart about it...at least smarter than they've been for the past couple of years.

In comment 14797172 Klaatu said:

Quote:

In comment 14797162 AcidTest said: Quote: interest in Ngakoue, Conklin, or any other high priced FA. Build through the draft. No team builds exclusively through the draft anymore, and the Giants are no exception. They just need to be smart about it...at least smarter than they've been for the past couple of years.

I'm fine signing FA's, but not those that will be extremely expensive. There will be a bidding war for those players. I'd rather spend that money to resign our own players, and sign less expensive FA's from other teams.

In comment 14796917 Giants38 said:

Quote:

In comment 14796912 BlueLou'sBack said: Quote: your post is more full of holes than a block of swiss cheese or my kitchen colander. You might say it's holier than the Pope, the Dome of the Rock, the Temple mount and the Acropolis all put together. You offer entirely contradictory historical facts as having some kind of predictive value on the upcoming draft... I take it you never competed on a debate team or argued a case in court... You mention the Trubisky (drafted 2nd overall), Mahomes (10th) and Watson (12th) draft as an example of how sometimes players (specifically QBs) drafted later turned out better than the guy drafted earlier... And then you assert that the Giants should have a great opportunity to trade down with teams looking to move up for a QB!!!! You point out how several high picks flop, and then claim what the Giants need is MORE PICKS. What they need is to get their one pick (or more if they do trade down) RIGHT. That's all that your evidence truly points to. When the Giants selected OBJ and left Aaron Donald on the board, they FLOPPED. Donald it turned out was the far, far better choice, a truly transformative player. Beckham, although an excellent player, was never transformative and turned into a headache. You dig up Trubisky from 4 years ago but ignore last year's #2 pick, Joey Bosa, who just happens to have played the same position at the same school Chase Young played at. Bosa was a big part of SF's transformation from scraping bottom to playing in the SB, and most folks think Young is just as good if not better than Bosa. So why are you digging among the scrap heaps of NFL drafts to bolster yourself? Because you don't want to believe Eric is right? The Giants really fucked themselves by beating the Redskins, IMO. And Young is in all likelihood becoming a Redskin. One more thing. At least when the Giants selected OBJ, they picked a transformative player. And we have no idea right now whether they screwed themselves by winning that game. If that game is a springboard for Jones becoming a franchise guy - Eli refers to the Dallas win at the end of his rookie year as a springboard to his success - then it was worth it. We also have to wait and see who the selections are. Right now, they are all prospects, and none of us have any idea how these guys will turn out. Is it possible Young becomes a HOFer and screws us for 15 years? Sure. But what happens if we, for example, move from 4 to 6, pick up an extra couple premium picks in the process, and then get a guy like Jerry Jeudy or a premium OT at that spot? Then what? Wouldn't you view that as a success? We're simply not going to know for years whether the Giants' win screwed them. What I do know is if Jones had finished the year 2-10 (and on a 10 game losing streak), that we would have thread after thread on whether he is a winner, does he suck, etc. It was important for him to win that game against Washington, even if it did screw us out of the second pick.

I know we can agree that picking two is better than picking at 4. That said, there are many cases where teams with lower picks end up with better players. For instance, in the case of the Giants, possibly if we pick 2 we pick Young and don't even listen to offers (See Barkley). Picking at 4 we decide to consider offers and trade down and acquire a bunch of picks that prove to be the core of a future Superbowl team.

None of us know what will happen.

In comment 14796965 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 14796917 Giants38 said: Quote: We're simply not going to know for years whether the Giants' win screwed them. What I do know is if Jones had finished the year 2-10 (and on a 10 game losing streak), that we would have thread after thread on whether he is a winner, does he suck, etc. It was important for him to win that game against Washington, even if it did screw us out of the second pick. That is an interesting take that you really think Jones needed to win that Washington game. If Jones’s stat line was still the same, except one less TD because the Skins would have theoretically won the game in overtime instead, that would have set in motion more “replace Jones” type threads...? Hmmm. I think most reasonable posters know the Giants had/have gaping holes on both sides of the ball and would understand there is only so much Jones can do in a game to cover those holes. So I don’t think beating the Skins meant anything for Jones. But it was definitely detrimental in our ability to have more options in this draft...

It's not about stat lines, per se. I think he just needed a win, something to change the narrative a bit. That's all. In that respect, it was important for him to get a victory.

Look, if Chase Young ends up being a superstar, and we missed out on him because of one such win, then yes, it was likely not worth it. But what happens if we grab Okudah with the 4 pick, and he ends up in the Richard Sherman/Darrell Revis category while Chase Young - selected at 2 - ends up an average pass rusher?

And I think that was Sy's point, too. We don't know what these guys will be yet, and anything at this point is simply a projection.

In comment 14797053 JonC said:

Quote:

The issue with Ngakoue is financial...if we pay $20M per for him we've weakened the war chest for other help. Unfortunate side effect of a capped league, got to spend wisely. Can't just say "we've got $60M", it's just as likely Yannik is OV 2.0 in terms of getting your money's worth.

This is why we need to reconsider keeping Golden. We may be able to get him for $13M/yr for 2/3 years. Or maybe a Robert Quinn for a 2 yr deal, who quietly had a very nice bounce back year in Dallas...

I like
Trade down with chargers, get an xtra #2
Draft defense at #6. Okudah or Simmons
OT and C with two high 2’s
If no high impact f/a. Sign some solid 2nd tier guys. At ILb and dB, maybe a tight end too
Trade Engram for a high #3
Nab a wr in rd 3, should be some talent there
Rest of draft More defense all around.

In comment 14797173 AcidTest said:

Quote:

interest in Ngakoue, Conklin, or any other high priced FA. Build through the draft. No team builds exclusively through the draft anymore, and the Giants are no exception. They just need to be smart about it...at least smarter than they've been for the past couple of years. I'm fine signing FA's, but not those that will be extremely expensive. There will be a bidding war for those players. I'd rather spend that money to resign our own players, and sign less expensive FA's from other teams.

When we signed Kareem McKenzie in 2005 and Antrell Rolle in 2010 we made them the highest-paid players in the league at their positions (in fact, we made Rolle the highest-paid Safety in league history). So, "extremely expensive" is a relative term, and not always a negative (as it looks like with Solder). Sometimes an extremely expensive player is worth it...worth a championship or two. But you have to be judicious about it. You don't want to spend A+ money on B+ players (which I fear Gettleman will do with Leonard Williams). Anyway...

We have holes that need to be filled, and if we can fill a few of them before the draft and not have to reach to fill those that aren't, so much the better for us. If I can give Gettleman credit for one thing, it's for putting us in a financial position to be major players in free agency. Unfortunately, that's only one half of the equation. Just because we have money to spend doesn't mean we'll spend it wisely. We'll see.

I think the 1st 2 picks are obvious.

Burrow - Bengals
Young - Redskins

I do not believe that Detroit is in the QB market so I think they either trade or take Okudah. i would lean towards Okudah here since the coach is a NE guy, they love a Top shutdown CB in their D.

If Det trades to Miami I think every else will stand pat and wait because they know the Giants are not taking a QB. Everyone always seems to know what the Giants are doing anyway.

A lot depends on how Tua and Hebert are looked at. At this point dont see them as cant miss so I highly doubt we get an offer we cant refuse.

I see the Giants reaching for an OT at 4. Fills a need I believe Thomas will be the pick unless Okudah is still there then Okudak will be the pick.

In comment 14797190 Klaatu said:

Quote:

In comment 14797173 AcidTest said: Quote: interest in Ngakoue, Conklin, or any other high priced FA. Build through the draft. No team builds exclusively through the draft anymore, and the Giants are no exception. They just need to be smart about it...at least smarter than they've been for the past couple of years. I'm fine signing FA's, but not those that will be extremely expensive. There will be a bidding war for those players. I'd rather spend that money to resign our own players, and sign less expensive FA's from other teams. When we signed Kareem McKenzie in 2005 and Antrell Rolle in 2010 we made them the highest-paid players in the league at their positions (in fact, we made Rolle the highest-paid Safety in league history). So, "extremely expensive" is a relative term, and not always a negative (as it looks like with Solder). Sometimes an extremely expensive player is worth it...worth a championship or two. But you have to be judicious about it. You don't want to spend A+ money on B+ players (which I fear Gettleman will do with Leonard Williams). Anyway... We have holes that need to be filled, and if we can fill a few of them before the draft and not have to reach to fill those that aren't, so much the better for us. If I can give Gettleman credit for one thing, it's for putting us in a financial position to be major players in free agency. Unfortunately, that's only one half of the equation. Just because we have money to spend doesn't mean we'll spend it wisely. We'll see.

You touched on the other half of the problem, namely trusting that DG will spend our FA money wisely. His FA signings have been very poor. My guess is that he overpays for Williams to justify the draft capital he spent to get him.

The huge FA signings for Harrison, Vernon, and Jenkins also didn't produce much. Except in rare cases, I still think it's a mistake to try and sign expensive FA's. Maybe if we were "one player away" from competing for a Super Bowl.

That's history. The "What if" nonsense can be played by all teams.

We are at number 4. So, what can we do with it?

someone wants to leap frog Miami for a QB and we get a fuck ton of picks. There are a lot of holes and if Young is off the board might as well just trade back.

In comment 14797185 Payasdaddy said:

Quote:

I like Trade down with chargers, get an xtra #2 Draft defense at #6. Okudah or Simmons OT and C with two high 2’s If no high impact f/a. Sign some solid 2nd tier guys. At ILb and dB, maybe a tight end too Trade Engram for a high #3 Nab a wr in rd 3, should be some talent there Rest of draft More defense all around.

WE.
NEED.
A.
PASS.
RUSHER.

In comment 14797197 Rudy5757 said:

Quote:

I think the 1st 2 picks are obvious. Burrow - Bengals Young - Redskins I do not believe that Detroit is in the QB market so I think they either trade or take Okudah. i would lean towards Okudah here since the coach is a NE guy, they love a Top shutdown CB in their D. If Det trades to Miami I think every else will stand pat and wait because they know the Giants are not taking a QB. Everyone always seems to know what the Giants are doing anyway.

I see it similarly. I still wouldn't rule out Cincinnati taking Young, but those odds seem lower and lower.

So Burrow seems slated for the #1 slot, whether it's Cincy taking him or Miami trading up for him and coughing up the #5 pick.

After that, I see Washington and Detroit going defense. I can see Washington taking either Young or Okudah (their corners are below average). And then Detroit taking whomever Washington doesn't take.

The only wild card in this is Derrick Brown. A strong case can be made he's one of the elite defenders available in this draft. Actually, one of the elite players in the draft. So it wouldn't be inconceivable for a Detroit to prefer him as a solution...if they think he be a real force in the pass rushing game.

We could do worse than Golden, but while the ten sacks were a plus he doesn't really excel at anything. He doesn't play the run consistently, doesn't force turnovers, just doesn't stand out when you're watching him. It's pretty hard to get ten sacks and not stand out some other way. That's why his value is lower for me.

In comment 14797185 Payasdaddy said:

Quote:

Trade Engram for a high #3

Surely you can't be serious.

And yes, I did call you Shirley.

In comment 14797197 Rudy5757 said:

Quote:

I think the 1st 2 picks are obvious. Burrow - Bengals Young - Redskins I do not believe that Detroit is in the QB market so I think they either trade or take Okudah. i would lean towards Okudah here since the coach is a NE guy, they love a Top shutdown CB in their D. If Det trades to Miami I think every else will stand pat and wait because they know the Giants are not taking a QB. Everyone always seems to know what the Giants are doing anyway. A lot depends on how Tua and Hebert are looked at. At this point dont see them as cant miss so I highly doubt we get an offer we cant refuse. I see the Giants reaching for an OT at 4. Fills a need I believe Thomas will be the pick unless Okudah is still there then Okudak will be the pick.

Agree with your first two picks, Detroit is the wild card.

if a team trades up for a QB, we pick Okudah at #4 is most likely scenario, at this time.

#4 need to be an impact player, I dont care if he is Neon Deion, we shouldnt be drafting at CB at #4... just my opinion though... we need Thug Nasty baller, BEEF or Playmakers.

In comment 14797115 JonC said:

Quote:

it doesn't get fixed this offseason. I expect they'll throw money at one or two, but the draft options will be value adds like last year. I'd be looking at 2021 free agents to see who could be there.

The defense needs pass rushers. Right now we have Carter and Ximines, both whom I like. They are good players but scare nobody. I agree that Young would have been a great addition but as you and many have pointed out, he most likely won't be there at pick 4.

Gettlemen said we need a pass rusher at one of his recent press conferences. I don't disagree or not believe this statement. Marcus Golden was pretty good last year and I was excited he was signed. I there a player who is a free agent that you would prefer? Matthew Judon? Donte Fowler? Jedeveon CLowney? Bud Dupree? Shaq Barrett? Re-sign Golden?

You must have a thought in regards to this issue or are we gonna go with Carter, X-Man and a mid round draft pick?

that Detroit is "unlikely" to take a QB. I think it's very likely.

Miami may very well target Washington for the trade up. If not, Washington takes Young, and Detroit takes Tua, suddenly the Giants may start getting offers for Herbert.

it would be Judon. But, will he reach UFA or get a tag and be a trade?

Too many warts with the rest to spend open market dollars, unless there's some unexpected value to it. Ideally, I'd be trying to acquire Judon and be looking Edge in the first two rounds. Carter and X are spare parts until they show significant growth in their respective games.

What I'm trying to communicate is the full solution may well not be available to us in 2020. It could take a couple offseasons to build. In that vein, I'm taking a longer term, patient view on this.

many corners are we going to draft?

Every draft pick is an unknown quantity. I'd rather have two or three draft picks than Okudah at #4.

Gidie you're exactly right on the demand for QB's and who the Top 3 prospects are. Where we differ is with Detroit. They don't have to take a QB there...but a QB will be taken #3 by someone. That pick will be a QB one way or the other.

Then it will be on the Giants to decide. Simmons/Okudah/Brown/OT of choice or my favorite...Trade Down.

In comment 14797356 AcidTest said:

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many corners are we going to draft? Every draft pick is an unknown quantity. I'd rather have two or three draft picks than Okudah at #4.

Okudah is lightyearsbeyond anything we have at the position.

He may very well be the best player on the board by a significant margin and he plays a premium position.

Take what the draft gives you. Dont fuck around to fill holes, that's how you end up with Flowers and Pugh.

In comment 14797349 JonC said:

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it would be Judon. But, will he reach UFA or get a tag and be a trade? Too many warts with the rest to spend open market dollars, unless there's some unexpected value to it. Ideally, I'd be trying to acquire Judon and be looking Edge in the first two rounds. Carter and X are spare parts until they show significant growth in their respective games. What I'm trying to communicate is the full solution may well not be available to us in 2020. It could take a couple offseasons to build. In that vein, I'm taking a longer term, patient view on this.

Solid football player, but I just hate signing 28 year-old LBs to big contracts. OL? Sure. LBs and CBs at that age? Iffy for me.

In comment 14797250 Klaatu said:

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In comment 14797185 Payasdaddy said: Quote: Trade Engram for a high #3 Surely you can't be serious. And yes, I did call you Shirley.

At this point we are in bed with Engram imv.

He was always a bit of a reach at #23...

I've been watching video on Okudah...and he's very good. He's not Patrick Peterson good. He's not as quick twitch athletically explosive. Higgins made some plays on him including a huge TD. I think Higgins is a good receiver but there are more than 50 better players in the NFL. I don't see okudah in that best of the best class at his position. The Deion, Revis, Bailey in their prime tier.

I'd be ok if we drafted him but I'd prefer to trade down to taking him #4 overall.

In comment 14797376 LakeGeorgeGiant said:

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In comment 14797356 AcidTest said: Quote: many corners are we going to draft? Every draft pick is an unknown quantity. I'd rather have two or three draft picks than Okudah at #4. Okudah is lightyearsbeyond anything we have at the position. He may very well be the best player on the board by a significant margin and he plays a premium position. Take what the draft gives you. Dont fuck around to fill holes, that's how you end up with Flowers and Pugh.

I am definitely not a draft expert - and I'll admit - I've literally never seen Okudah play...BUT...I haven't read a single thing saying he was the next Revis..shoot Revis wasn't drafted until pick #14.

The Giants have a lot of holes to fill - they need quality players AND if there's one thing that I feel DG has done a good job of - it's identify some players that can play. Let's get more picks and let him do his thing.

In comment 14797246 JonC said:

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We could do worse than Golden, but while the ten sacks were a plus he doesn't really excel at anything. He doesn't play the run consistently, doesn't force turnovers, just doesn't stand out when you're watching him. It's pretty hard to get ten sacks and not stand out some other way. That's why his value is lower for me.

He had a better year than you think. He was 9th in the league in TFL. So he was more involved than just sacks. The lack of forcing turnovers seems to be an contagion for this team right now - no one does. So I'm not ready to hold that against him. One year in Zona he did force four turnovers.

Any thoughts on Robert Quinn? Like I mentioned earlier, he quietly had a terrific year for Dallas. He's 30, which might suppress his market, and we might be able to get a short deal (length) and a reasonable AAV.

plays bigger than Golden, longer, can play end in 4 man fronts and set the edge. Issue is he's had a rep for being inconsistent and sometimes a knucklehead, but like you said at his age it's a shorter commitment.

First of all, I absolutely would LOVE the Giants to trade down with a QB-needy team! I just hope that some potential trade partners don't decide to kick the tires on some available NFL QBs. Some names that come to mind are Bridgewater, Stafford, Newton, Dalton, Foles, or even Rivers. Something like that would mess up plans for a trade-down.

and a kid like Simmons is they don't play big, and you need that especially outside on the Edge. That's the dog Strahan talks about, the impact player who plays above the Xs and Os because of his will, hustle, and violence inspires the guys around him. Giants have had a real hard finding dogs, even their recent solid UFAs have had little dog in them, and even less leader. That's why they were moved out. Dupree and Fowler have the same lack of dog in them, too much run and chase in space. Clowney's figured out how to hustle and impact a game more while complaining less as he's gotten older, but I'm not buying him for $20M per.

but the OP basically has a scenario where teams are trying to get Herbert?

Not that impressed.

Yes, after combine the scouts knew he had ++ speed, and a build which could hold up and enough height.

It was not possible to test what a tough guy he was, or how football smart he was, or that he would literally outwork everybody both on, and off the field.

In his prime, he was the greatest all-around CB I have ever seen. But a substantial part was extraordinary effort in preparation and not taking plays off.

In comment 14797442 JonC said:

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and a kid like Simmons is they don't play big, and you need that especially outside on the Edge. That's the dog Strahan talks about, the impact player who plays above the Xs and Os because of his will, hustle, and violence inspires the guys around him. Giants have had a real hard finding dogs, even their recent solid UFAs have had little dog in them, and even less leader. That's why they were moved out. Dupree and Fowler have the same lack of dog in them, too much run and chase in space. Clowney's figured out how to hustle and impact a game more while complaining less as he's gotten older, but I'm not buying him for $20M per.

Ok. I think there is a dog in the coming draft and he is rising on draft boards. K’Lavon Chaisson Edge LSU. If you haven’t watched him closely please do. Also read about how he was discovered by LSU. Very interesting. Watch some of the interviews with him, super high football IQ. He is relentless in pursuit. He is very quick off the ball. He can tackle, drop into coverage, set an edge, and sack and pressure the QB. He is a guy who when looking at his stats won’t blow you away. But he is young, very athletic and has room to grow. He is 6’4” 250 lbs. he has leadership skills and a high work ethic. I personally would draft him at pick 4 but he might be available in a trade down.

Number 18 is a dog. Reminds me of a bigger Jesse Armstead

In comment 14797459 Rjanyg said:

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Ok. I think there is a dog in the coming draft and he is rising on draft boards. K’Lavon Chaisson Edge LSU. If you haven’t watched him closely please do. Also read about how he was discovered by LSU. Very interesting. Watch some of the interviews with him, super high football IQ. He is relentless in pursuit. He is very quick off the ball. He can tackle, drop into coverage, set an edge, and sack and pressure the QB. He is a guy who when looking at his stats won’t blow you away. But he is young, very athletic and has room to grow. He is 6’4” 250 lbs. he has leadership skills and a high work ethic. I personally would draft him at pick 4 but he might be available in a trade down. Number 18 is a dog. Reminds me of a bigger Jesse Armstead

I like him, too. There are major flashes. He was terrific in the Oklahoma, Alabama, and Florida games this year. The three games I watched from start to finish. My friend in the recruiting business told me if anyone has a chance to rocket up the draft boards it's Chaisson, particularly if he tests well. They hope is he runs 4.6 or <...

Thay win screwed us. Hated it so much. Like who needs a win. Shurmer is gone either way. It felt like a Tom Coughlin win where it doesnt mean shit but its about trying to prove something. Well you didnt except screw us for the next year. Chase young obviously could come in and dominate but now he will be doing that against us next 10 years. If pass rush isnt fixed this year it will make people sour about judge amd staff a not coming in and doing a thing even if jones made a huge jump we wont be happy til we make it back to playoffs and that is unlikely without a pass rush and who wants to buy one in FA. That should cost 70 million or more for a game changer like clowney or jax de. Which is why drafting chase would have been perfect. At this point trade back cause noone other than chase is a game changer. No OTs no Simmons. Its nice to think ILB could fix us but ropkie will take time to develop. We could grab that in FA, not the most expensive position. So it better be trade up for young, have washington trade back to qb needy team and young falling to us, or trade back once or twice. Grab as many 1st rounders and grab a OT and LB toward end of 1st or use picks to carousel in the 1st back forward if needed. Gosh I hate that win





In comment 14796817 Eric from BBI said:

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despise the Redskins, but that win didn't help us. This is one of the few times Sy and I disagree.

this grudge against beating the Redskins and worsening our draft position because it has no basis of realistic behavior.

The team suits up and plays to win...period full-stop. To even waste a second of your life contemplating something else should occur is more an insight as to your poor thinking processes than the Giants.

And not that I should have to go there, but this team is not a "few draft slots" away from achieving anything. So stop playing Fantasy Football Draft...

In comment 14797532 Jimmy Googs said:

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this grudge against beating the Redskins and worsening our draft position because it has no basis of realistic behavior. The team suits up and plays to win...period full-stop. To even waste a second of your life contemplating something else should occur is more an insight as to your poor thinking processes than the Giants. And not that I should have to go there, but this team is not a "few draft slots" away from achieving anything. So stop playing Fantasy Football Draft...

Keep thinking that when Young is beating up Jones twice a year and the giants dl is still searching for a big time pass rusher. But carry on. Ill be waiting down the line here to see this happen

1. burrows
2. young
3. okudah
4. Giants trade with miami for qb2
5. Giants trade with chargers, panthers, or jaguars for qb3
6|7|9. Giants pick OT or whomever they rate best

Giants have a handful of other picks, maybe even miami's #18 or #26, or jacksonville's #20. that would be amazing! even if they pick up their #2s. wow!

Has to get a QB.

Detroit should take a QB given Stafford's health.

Cincy is taking a QB.

I think Miami moves up to 3. Detroit grabs an extra pick.

Then all heck breaks loose.

I don't see the jaguars making a move. Carolina maybe. Detroit could move back up to 4. Don't discount Tampa or San Diego being aggressive.

I can see Hebert in San Diego.

In comment 14797514 bw in dc said:

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In comment 14797459 Rjanyg said: Quote: Ok. I think there is a dog in the coming draft and he is rising on draft boards. K’Lavon Chaisson Edge LSU. If you haven’t watched him closely please do. Also read about how he was discovered by LSU. Very interesting. Watch some of the interviews with him, super high football IQ. He is relentless in pursuit. He is very quick off the ball. He can tackle, drop into coverage, set an edge, and sack and pressure the QB. He is a guy who when looking at his stats won’t blow you away. But he is young, very athletic and has room to grow. He is 6’4” 250 lbs. he has leadership skills and a high work ethic. I personally would draft him at pick 4 but he might be available in a trade down. Number 18 is a dog. Reminds me of a bigger Jesse Armstead I like him, too. There are major flashes. He was terrific in the Oklahoma, Alabama, and Florida games this year. The three games I watched from start to finish. My friend in the recruiting business told me if anyone has a chance to rocket up the draft boards it's Chaisson, particularly if he tests well. They hope is he runs 4.6 or <...

I’m gonna predict a 4.55 40 yard dash. Check out some of the video on his hand usage with a pass rush coach. The kid wants to be great!

You go out there on that field and you play to win. You don't go out to play to lose -- that is what a loser does.

ANd moaning over a win just doesn't seem like a worthy way to spend one's time

for the 3rd, 4th, and 5th picks in the first round,

The franchise would have two less Super Bowl wins and Little Bill would be selling insurance.

Just a thought. A lot can change between now and the draft.

In comment 14797667 Reese's Pieces said:

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for the 3rd, 4th, and 5th picks in the first round, The franchise would have two less Super Bowl wins and Little Bill would be selling insurance. Just a thought. A lot can change between now and the draft.

Or maybe they would have picked Kenny Easley, Ronnie Lott and Mike Singletary, all HOFs from that draft too, and won several more Super Bowls.

just a thought...

In comment 14797667 Reese's Pieces said:

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for the 3rd, 4th, and 5th picks in the first round, The franchise would have two less Super Bowl wins and Little Bill would be selling insurance.

No way would Belichick be selling insurance for a living. He wouldn't last a week.

If I'm Miami, I'm feeling pretty good I'll get one of Herbert or Tua. So long as they're happy making either guy their franchise QB, then I just sit tight. The wildcard will be Washington. If Washington take Young, the chances of one of the QBs falling to them are probably 90+%. Even if Detroit takes a QB, they know the Giants won't. They also know the Giants don't trade down. On the off-chance the Giants are seriously considering it, and I'm the Miami GM, I place a call to Gettleman and tell him to call me before trading the pick. If he has a serious offer, Miami with its 2 #1's can probably top it.

may have no interest in being chosen by Detroit.

See the link. Prefers Miami.
Tua - ( New Window )

But did anyone catch Carson Palmer's comments regarding the Bengals?

Cliff-Notes:
Carson states that the Bengals weren't serious about trying to win Super Bowls.

Then we learned that Joe Burrow will be working with Jordan Palmer (Carson's brother) for pre-draft training.

Then after Carson's comments were made, Joe Burrow comes out and makes a statement that reads very similar to Carson's comments.

Quote:

“You want to go No. 1,” Burrow said during an appearance on the Dan Patrick Show. “But you also want to go to a great organization that is committed to winning. Committed to winning Super Bowls.”

Could he possibly pull an "Eli" and refuse to play for Cincinnati? Could the Bengals look to shop the #1 pick knowing that Burrow might be tainted and not want to play for them?

if we traded down for a pick swap this year(plus a 3rd) and that teams 1st in 2021

In comment 14799398 Diver_Down said:

Quote:

But did anyone catch Carson Palmer's comments regarding the Bengals? Cliff-Notes: Carson states that the Bengals weren't serious about trying to win Super Bowls. Then we learned that Joe Burrow will be working with Jordan Palmer (Carson's brother) for pre-draft training. Then after Carson's comments were made, Joe Burrow comes out and makes a statement that reads very similar to Carson's comments. Quote: “You want to go No. 1,” Burrow said during an appearance on the Dan Patrick Show. “But you also want to go to a great organization that is committed to winning. Committed to winning Super Bowls.” Could he possibly pull an "Eli" and refuse to play for Cincinnati? Could the Bengals look to shop the #1 pick knowing that Burrow might be tainted and not want to play for them?

Interesting comments from Ross yesterday when he expressed concern regarding Tua's health. He has also has not hidden his desire to select Burrow.

Plenty of time before the draft, but don't be surprised if Ross greenlights Grier to make an offer that the Bengals can't refuse. Cincy can still trade the draft capital gained from Miami to move up to #2/#3 to get QB2.

In comment 14799599 Diver_Down said:

Quote:

In comment 14799398 Diver_Down said: Quote: But did anyone catch Carson Palmer's comments regarding the Bengals? Cliff-Notes: Carson states that the Bengals weren't serious about trying to win Super Bowls. Then we learned that Joe Burrow will be working with Jordan Palmer (Carson's brother) for pre-draft training. Then after Carson's comments were made, Joe Burrow comes out and makes a statement that reads very similar to Carson's comments. Quote: “You want to go No. 1,” Burrow said during an appearance on the Dan Patrick Show. “But you also want to go to a great organization that is committed to winning. Committed to winning Super Bowls.” Could he possibly pull an "Eli" and refuse to play for Cincinnati? Could the Bengals look to shop the #1 pick knowing that Burrow might be tainted and not want to play for them? Interesting comments from Ross yesterday when he expressed concern regarding Tua's health. He has also has not hidden his desire to select Burrow. Plenty of time before the draft, but don't be surprised if Ross greenlights Grier to make an offer that the Bengals can't refuse. Cincy can still trade the draft capital gained from Miami to move up to #2/#3 to get QB2.

Another day and another dot connected in the Bengals-Burrow-Trainers-Miami drama. Now, TJ Houshmandzadeh is doing the heavy lifting of suggested trade scenarios that would be necessary to for the Bengals to consider trading out of #1.
Which side are you on, TJ? - ( New Window )