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Opinion: Retire the numbers of Rosey Brown and Emlin Tunnel

sjnyfan : 1/29/2020 2:19 pm
This has been on my mind for some time, but with the announcement of Strahan's 92 getting retired and the 100th anniversary team I got to thinking on this further.

The Giants had four players on the 100th anniversary team, Mel Hein, Lawrence Taylor, Rosey Brown and Emlin Tunnell. I think most here know LT's career and it speaks for itself. Mel Hein was an excellent player himself as an 8 time All Pro and the 1938 MVP with 2 rings. But Brown's and Tunnell's careers stack up as well as any Giant to put on the uniform:

Roosevelt Brown's career accolades:
NFL champion (1956)
*9× Pro Bowl (1955–1960, 1962, 1964, 1965)
*6× First-team All-Pro (1956–1959, 1961, 1962)
*3× Second-team All-Pro (1960, 1963, 1965)
*NFL 75th Anniversary All-Time Team
*NFL 1950s All-Decade Team

He also worked in the Giants organization as a coach and scout from his retirement in 1966 until his death in 2004. That's over 50 years and a literal lifetime of service with one organization.

Emlin Tunnel's career accolades:
*First African American to sign and play for the Giants
*NFL champion w/NYG in 1956 (won another ring with GB in 1961)
*9× Pro Bowl (1950–1957, 1959), 8 with Big Blue
*6× First-team All-Pro (1949, 1951, 1952, 1954–1956)
*NFL 1950s All-Decade Team

When he retired in 1962,

*His 79 career interceptions were an NFL record and remain second most in NFL history.
*His 1,282 interception return yards were an NFL record for four decades and currently ranks fifth in NFL history.
*His 258 punt returns were an NFL record.
*His 2,209 punt return yards were an NFL record.
*He played in 158 consecutive games which was also an NFL record when he retired as a player.

Despite playing his last game as a Giant in 1958, he is still the franchise leader in punt returns, punt return yards and total return yards and tied for first in return TDs. He is the first African American elected in to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Tunnel also worked with the Giants organization as a scout and coach from his retirement in 1962 until his death from a heart attack at Giants training camp in 1975.


Starting with the anniversary team I took some free time to look over how many had their numbers retired. Minus special teams (because let's be real, no one will retire their number) 50 out of the 94 position players on the 100th anniversary team by my count has had their number retired. I thought it would be higher but there are several factors:

* The Raiders, Cowboys and Ravens don't retire numbers which would have added several more players to the list. However, they do hold out numbers for greats

* Brady, though a free agent, is still playing and will most definitely be retired.

* Some teams infrequently do it. For instance, the Redskins and Steelers, two storied franchises have retired a total of three numbers--Sammy Baugh for the Skins; Joe Greene and Ernie Stautner for the Steelers. Both do hold out numbers as well as do sevral other teams.

While the Giants do hold numbers as they did with Strahan's number, Brown's 71 is currently being worn by Will Hernandez and Tunnell's 45 was worn this past year by Nate Stupar. And it's not as if they are against retiring numbers. With the addition of Strahan and Eli, the Giants will tie the Bears for most retired numbers at 14, 4 of which aren't even Hall of Famers (Phil Simms, Ward Cuff, Al Blozis and Charlie Conerly). In the past, they have done it posthumously as they did with Blozis who died in World War II. They have also retired numbers years after retirement; Hein 18 years after his career ended and Gifford 36 years after his.

Teams of course have discretion on whose numbers are retired/not worn and there should absolutely be some sort of a system in place. But for a team that has shown a willingness to recognize its greats of one of the most storied and premier franchises in the sport, I frankly think this is overdue, especially with the recent announcements of two more to be retired in the upcoming year. You could argue that behind LT, Brown and Tunnell are the two best players to ever wear the uniform and the induction to the 100th anniversary team should cement that. Ring of Honor just doesn't cut it, in my opinion. Plus, considering the past several years we could use some good PR. Just thought I'd share my drawn out thoughts and if anyone could make some noise on the subject from a fan's perspective, no better place than here.
It is a fine argument  
Giantology : 1/29/2020 2:21 pm : link
But the demand isn't going to be there. Not to mention, I believe we are now up to 13 retired numbers already (including Eli + Strahan).
RE: It is a fine argument  
EricJ : 1/29/2020 2:35 pm : link
In comment 14797341 Giantology said:
Quote:
I believe we are now up to 13 retired numbers already (including Eli + Strahan).


That's the issue right there...
I agree 1,000%!!  
Emlen'sGremlins : 1/29/2020 2:37 pm : link
Shouldn't the numbers of all four GIANTS players on both the NFL 75th Anniversary List and 100th Anniversary List be retired?

Total no brainer!
Such an easy way to make the Boomers happy, I vote OK  
V.I.G. : 1/29/2020 2:38 pm : link
yes...
And the numbers of....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 1/29/2020 2:43 pm : link
….Ray Flaherty, Tuffy Leemans, Ward Cuff, Al Blozis, Joe Morrison and Ken Strong can be UN-retired.

It's truly a disgrace that TWO of the FOUR greatest players in GIANTS history don't have their numbers retired!

Before Eli and Strahan's are retired 45, 79 AND Harry Carson's 53 MUST be retired!!!
I assumed Tunnel was in the Hall of Fame  
since1925 : 1/29/2020 2:45 pm : link
How is he possible that a guy with 79 interceptions is NOT in the hall? That is insane. Good grief, time to correct this egregious error. This should have happened decades ago.
I’m surprised Well Mara  
Big Blue '56 : 1/29/2020 2:55 pm : link
didn’t retire them
RE: I assumed Tunnel was in the Hall of Fame  
Emlen'sGremlins : 1/29/2020 3:06 pm : link
He is. But evidently not good enough to have his number retired by the Giants.
We should assign fractions, Real, and complex numbers  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 1/29/2020 3:07 pm : link
to players. 3 + 2i
RE: I’m surprised Well Mara  
Emlen'sGremlins : 1/29/2020 3:08 pm : link
Blue '56 said:
didn’t retire them

Surprised even more so that he retired numbers of multiple mediocre players and not the TRUE greats!
Nope.  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/29/2020 3:13 pm : link
Can't retire everybody's number. Eli and Strahan it is.
Contrarian opinion:  
81_Great_Dane : 1/29/2020 3:25 pm : link
Un-retire all numbers. It's not practical to keep retiring numbers; as noted above there are already 13 retired numbers and that's too many. Honor guys in a different way. Statues. Giants Hall of Fame. Something, but not that.

But if you have a number like 10 that was worn by Tarkenton, Van Pelt and Manning, you don't give that out lightly. You make guys earn it. Same with 56, 53 and some of the others. The weird thing is that now, in pre-season, they're short on numbers so you see some of those numbers on fringe players. That's queasy, in my opinion.

If you are absolutely bound and determined to retire numbers in some way, retire them for as long as the player is alive. So we would expect #10 to be back in circulation in maybe 40-50 years.
NFL should switch to 3-digit or Hexadecimal.  
x meadowlander : 1/29/2020 3:29 pm : link
Hex would work. Enough number combo's to outlast the NFL, anyway.
Do not unretire Al Blozis!  
flycatcher : 1/29/2020 3:29 pm : link
From his wiki:
NJ native, (Garfield and JC), he was literally too big for WWII service, so “ after repeated attempts, Blozis finally persuaded the Army to waive its size limit and accept him. It took further persuading to get from a desk job to the front lines."
Blozis “set the Army's hand grenade throwing record with a toss of 94 yards, 2 feet 6.5 inches.[1] He was commissioned as a second lieutenant in the 28th Infantry Division. On January 31, 1945, his platoon was in the Vosges Mountains of France scouting enemy lines. When two of his men, a Sergeant and a private, failed to return from a patrol, he went in search of them alone.[4] He never returned.”

Al Blozis was a hero, #32 should always remain retired.
start using letters as well-  
Del Shofner : 1/29/2020 3:48 pm : link
players A through Z would add 26 new designations. Adds enough to solve the retired number problem.
RE: RE: I’m surprised Well Mara  
Big Blue '56 : 1/29/2020 3:56 pm : link
In comment 14797389 Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
Blue '56 said:
didn’t retire them

Surprised even more so that he retired numbers of multiple mediocre players and not the TRUE greats!


Couldn’t agree more
There are a lot of numbers, if the Giants real;y want to retire Brown  
Mad Mike : 1/29/2020 4:02 pm : link
and Tunnel, they'll be fine for numbers going forward. That said, they pretty clearly are moving away from retiring numbers, Eli and Strahan notwithstanding, and I think the ship has sailed. (It is cool though seeing fans bash prior players as somehow undeserving). I suppose in the extremely unlikely event some future all-timer wears one of their numbers and warrants jersey retirement, they could do a two-fer, Adam Graves / Andy Bathgate style, but I wouldn't recommend holding your breath.
If we keep this up  
Beer Man : 1/29/2020 4:03 pm : link
at some point the team will start running out of position #s; maybe 2-digit #s. What then? A better solution is to place these players in the Ring of Fame and make their #'s unavailable while they are still alive.
RE: There are a lot of numbers, if the Giants real;y want to retire Brown  
Big Blue '56 : 1/29/2020 4:04 pm : link
In comment 14797430 Mad Mike said:
Quote:
and Tunnel, they'll be fine for numbers going forward. That said, they pretty clearly are moving away from retiring numbers, Eli and Strahan notwithstanding, and I think the ship has sailed. (It is cool though seeing fans bash prior players as somehow undeserving). I suppose in the extremely unlikely event some future all-timer wears one of their numbers and warrants jersey retirement, they could do a two-fer, Adam Graves / Andy Bathgate style, but I wouldn't recommend holding your breath.


As a kid, Bathgate was my favorite
Pretty sure Rosen Brown was #79. Morrison’s number was 40.  
Ivan15 : 1/29/2020 4:36 pm : link
Maybe they will start giving out numbers like LB56 and RB16 so more numbers can be retired. Better than Roman numerals which at least a few people are serious about.

This whole discussion really is a waste of time.
Again we're talking about doing this for TWO of the FOUR Giants....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 1/29/2020 4:37 pm : link
….who are on the NFL 100th Anniversary ALL TIME Team! It's an absolute travesty that Tunnel and Brown's numbers are not retired.

I'd expect nothing less from the franchise that let Lombardi, Landry and Belichick go.
tunnel played 11 seasons w the giants  
japanhead : 1/29/2020 4:41 pm : link
three w the packers. maybe that's part of it?

brown and carson each played 13 seasons, only with the giants. case could be made.

eli and strahan played 16 and 15 respective seasons only with the giants.

going forward only retiring numbers of players who won SBs and who have 15 or more years of time with the team, and/or who played their whole careers w the giants, seems reasonable.

a lot of the NYG numbers that are retired seem nonsensical. al blozis? war hero? is that the rationale? even tittle was a giant for just four years, a 49er for 10.

I love  
PaulN : 1/29/2020 5:32 pm : link
Joe Morrison, how do you retire his number and not Brown or Tunnel, it makes the organization look real bad. At least we had Jerry Reese.
joe morrisson  
hankb1126 : 1/29/2020 5:44 pm : link
joe morisson's number was not supposed to be retired he was given a day and I believe alex webster said his number will be retired and no one corrected him
other teams  
hankb1126 : 1/29/2020 5:46 pm : link
how do the other teams do it in retiring numbers like Pittsburgh and dallas and maybe even Cleveland since old browns of the 50's had a lot of great players
How about retiring the combination of a name and number.  
eric2425ny : 1/29/2020 9:15 pm : link
Like Taylor/56, Manning/10, etc. What are the odds you will have two hall of fame Taylor’s or Manning’s with the same number on the same team over decades and decades.
I  
AcidTest : 1/29/2020 9:47 pm : link
would retire their numbers.
RE: Again we're talking about doing this for TWO of the FOUR Giants....  
Giant4Life : 1/30/2020 8:51 am : link
In comment 14797453 Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
….who are on the NFL 100th Anniversary ALL TIME Team! It's an absolute travesty that Tunnel and Brown's numbers are not retired.

I'd expect nothing less from the franchise that let Lombardi, Landry and Belichick go.


The Giants didn't exactly let Belichick go. He was the heir apparent after Parcells, but Parcells quit in May of 1991 and Belichick was already gone (I may have the month wrong, but it was something like that). Young was angry with Parcells for years after, apparently, for preventing the Giants from promoting Belichick.
RE: How about retiring the combination of a name and number.  
Leg of Theismann : 2/6/2020 8:16 pm : link
In comment 14797604 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
Like Taylor/56, Manning/10, etc. What are the odds you will have two hall of fame Taylor’s or Manning’s with the same number on the same team over decades and decades.


What?

First of all... What??

Second of all, even given your premise, shouldn't the question be "what are the odds you have another player named Manning wearing #10"? Why add the bit about the 2nd guy being HOF?

Third of all... What?????

OK, yes, let's say no other player named Manning who plays for the Giants will be allowed to wear #10. Wow. What an honor for Eli.
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