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Okudah > > Young or Simmons

5BowlsSoon : 2/3/2020 8:19 am
Yesterdayís Super Bowl convinced me that if we have a chance to draft Jeff Okudah, do it.....even if it means Chase Young is available.

A great OT will take out Young in a big game, and chances are, a team you play in the SB Will have great tackles. Just like last night, you hardly even heard Bosaís name being called. He had little effect on the outcome of the game.

However, a great shutdown CB who can take out the opposing best WR is clearly much more invaluable. If SF had a guy like Okudah to cover THill, do you think Hill would have been all by himself 50 yards down the field like he was last night on that huge 3rd and 15 play? I donít think so.

Bottom line: the Great CB is important and has an impact on every passing Down. The EDGE rusher may have an impact on 1-2 plays (sacks) although if you count hurries, depending on how close he was to sacking the qb, that number may increase a bit. Even still, Iíd much rather have a guy who gives me a chance to marginalize the opponents best passing weapon on every passing play. His name is JEFF OKUDAH. Iím hoping Detroit gets stupid and trades out to some team who wants a qb.
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RE: RE: RE: And there is this caveat too:  
5BowlsSoon : 2/3/2020 3:23 pm : link
In comment 14802164 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
In comment 14802140 5BowlsSoon said:


Quote:


In comment 14802094 BlueLou'sBack said:


Quote:




Quote:


A great OT will take out Young in a big game...



So you flip your best ER to rush from the opposite side, or move him around to creat mismatches. Like Spags did with Tuck.


Young has and can rush the passer from the interior, though he's better off the edge.



Iíve read here from guys who watch closely that Young was ineffective toward the end against better teams. So, assuming the guys who reported this know what they are talking about, why do many just assume he would be much better than the shut down corner, Okudah ( assuming you agree Okudah is that special)?



Yeah I have to challenge that "ineffective against better teams" notion. Michigan went all in on doubling Young on every single 3rd down (which is the down on which pass rushers eat). Wisconsin copied the exact thing Michigan did.

Direct quote from Young after that Michigan game:



Quote:


ďThey just did it more consistently,Ē Young said. ďOther games I might get one or two (where) they would show it. It was like every third down there was an extra guy. It was definitely a challenge. I like challenges, Iím a competitor so Iím not backing down from nothing.Ē



BUT you want to hear why it's really silly to say he "struggled against better teams"? Here ya go...

One of the teams people cite when they say that is the Wisconsin conference championship game. Granted, Wisconsin has a great OL. But guess what? Just 3 weeks prior, Young had 5 TFL and 4 sacks against that exact same Wisconsin team! You read that right... THAT was his stat line! So the point is: when Young failed to get a sack 3 weeks later, is it because he suddenly got Space Jam'd by extraterrestrials who stole his powers? No. They just made damn sure he wasn't going to ruin their day again and copied the Michigan game plan of throwing extra guys at him every chance they got. And oh btw Ohio St. still won the game comfortably because you only get to have 11 guys on the field, and when you devote resources to stopping one guy, other guys get more production.

(Sometimes I honestly think people here are looking for any and every reason to not have to feel so bad about losing Young the Skins. The kid is something special no matter how you slice it.)


Maybe Iím justifying us losing Young, but after seeing what our secondary did last year, the thought of getting one guy who can be considered a stud makes me happy. Of course, hopefully the coaching will be much better too. And I can assure you, if we draft either Toung or Okudah, I,will be ecstatic.
No OSU CBs  
NYGinNC : 2/3/2020 3:29 pm : link
The bigger problem with this thread is why the hell would anyone use a top-5 pick on a CB from the Big Televenteen? The WRs in that conference are straight garbage, there is no way to properly evaluate how good their CBs are until they get predictably roasted in their bowl games. We saw how this played out with Eli Crapple.

Look at the top CBs in the NFL:
Patrick Peterson - SEC
Jaylen Ramsey - ACC
Stephon Gilmore - SEC
Xavien Howard - Big 12
Darius Slay - SEC
Kyle Fuller - ACC
Talib & Harris - Big 12

If you want to take Young from OSU then fine as their lines get a good test, but there is no way in hell that a top-5 pick should be used on a CB from there, you have no idea what you are getting.
Of course by that logic you'd never draft  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/3/2020 4:17 pm : link
a PSU RB in the first round, let alone as a top 5 pick.
RE: I'm sorry but,  
Rjanyg : 2/3/2020 4:37 pm : link
In comment 14802139 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
You are completely off base with your opinion of EDGE rushers and sound like you don't really know what you're watching. Great pass rushers have literally been one of the main keys to the Giants winning all 4 of their super bowls, case closed.

You literally just implied that an EDGE rusher can only have an impact on the game when his "name is being called" and that they only impact 1-2 plays a per game at most i.e. when they get sacks (oh except for maybe when they get hurries)... Really? Again I'm sorry but that just sounds like such a simplistic understanding of what is going on on a football field.

OK, so Bosa had 5 tackles, 1 sack, 1 FF, 1 TFL, 2 "QB hits". He also had 12 QB pressures. When you're going up against Mahomes who has eyes in the back of his head, incredible athletic ability, and like 5 football senses in addition to his 5 existing senses, it's going to be a tougher game. But we could say the same thing for the corners that got burned last night, including Richard Sherman who may be a future HOFer. Great players make good players look bad, that's just how it is. I would like to remind you that for the first 53 minutes of that game, Mahomes did look more uncomfortable and overall worse than I've probably ever seen him, and I would say the 12 QB pressures and strip-sack by Bosa had at least a little something to do with it.

Also, side note: if shutting down the opposing team's #1 WR is apparently the most important thing you can do in beating a team, then doesn't that mean having a #1 WR is pretty important by that logic? So why not draft Jeudy, who has been touted as one of the most complete WR prospects to come out in several years? I'm not saying draft Jeudy, I'm just asking by YOUR logic why wouldn't we consider Jeudy?

Sorry getting off topic... I feel compelled to keep reminding people that Chase Young had 16.5 sacks through 9 games this past season. Bosa never came close to that kind of production in his college career. Then Michigan literally double and even Triple-teamed Young on every single play (EVERY play) and he was blanked, but taking up 2-3 blockers each down certainly has an impact on the game. Wisconsin and Clemson copied Michigan's same game plan and again Young didn't record a sack, but he still managed to pressure the QB a number of times, make some nice stops in the run game, and again having a guy drawing that much attention opens up a whole lot else for the rest of your defense. Great EDGE rushers (like Bosa and Young) do also play the run well btw, which is fairly important and about half of any given team's offense, not sure if you thought about that when considering a guy's "impact" on a game.

Anyway, I'm not downplaying the importance of a shutdown CB by any means, and I certainly like Okudah as a prospect. He and Young are the 2 guys I want and if they aren't there I'd prefer a trade down.

But if Young is there, you take Young and don't look back. Adding Young and then another premier pass rusher in FA (Ngakoue/Barrett/Clowney), combined with what we hope is better coaching on that side of the ball, could in part turn this defense around in a single offseason. Just look at the 49ers adding Bosa and Dee Ford and going from 4-12 to almost winning the super bowl (I know many other factors involved there but damn that pass rush was ferocious all year and hugely instrumental in their success).

The way I see it: Hey, I love a great corner, don't get me wrong, but relatively speaking-- it's very hard to find a DB who can cover anyone for 7 seconds, let alone a top WR. Even the very best can only cover a guy for so long. That's why it's a much quicker and more direct solution to just tackle the fucking quarterback as quickly as you can. It's a tried and true approach that has basically been the basis for all of this franchise's success over the last 40 years.

Go get some pass rushers.


Great post, and since we beat Washington we will not have a shot at Young unless something unforeseen happens. Gettlemen said we need to get a pass rusher which to me means expect some money being thrown around and a lot of it. Ngakoue is the youngest pass rusher available and he would be worth a long term investment. He is very good at pressuring and sacking the QB. I have to imagine DG will make his decision easy to come to NYG.
RE: No OSU CBs  
5BowlsSoon : 2/3/2020 8:20 pm : link
In comment 14802190 NYGinNC said:
Quote:
The bigger problem with this thread is why the hell would anyone use a top-5 pick on a CB from the Big Televenteen? The WRs in that conference are straight garbage, there is no way to properly evaluate how good their CBs are until they get predictably roasted in their bowl games. We saw how this played out with Eli Crapple.

Look at the top CBs in the NFL:
Patrick Peterson - SEC
Jaylen Ramsey - ACC
Stephon Gilmore - SEC
Xavien Howard - Big 12
Darius Slay - SEC
Kyle Fuller - ACC
Talib & Harris - Big 12

If you want to take Young from OSU then fine as their lines get a good test, but there is no way in hell that a top-5 pick should be used on a CB from there, you have no idea what you are getting.


I like the different perspective you added to this thread. Thanks.

I donít watch college football so if you are right and there are no good WRs in the Big 10 or 12, whatever it is called now, then I can see you being reticent in wanting to draft a guy who basically has not been challenged much. Now they did play a bowl game or two...Im pretty sure Clemson has some pretty decent WRs so how did Okudah do against those guys?

You do make a good point looking at the conferences where the top CBS have come out from.

Oh, Just to clear this up, are you saying just because Young also plays in that same conference, he did not have it as easy as Okudah because there are many good OLs in his conference that he had to compete against? Again, I would have to take your word or others as knowledgeable because I have no idea how good Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan state, etc OL is.
RE: RE: RE: Were you actually watching the game?  
5BowlsSoon : 2/3/2020 8:26 pm : link
In comment 14801533 johnnyb said:
Quote:
In comment 14801522 5BowlsSoon said:


Quote:


In comment 14801499 chilly460 said:


Quote:


Bosa was ragdolling Fisher all game, his stat line (which is good anyway) doesn't even show how many times he effected Mahomes. Given equal need and quality of two players at DE and CB, nobody in their right mind is going to take the CB.



Yes I watched it. I replayed the 4th quarter last night and didnít see him impacting much of anything, let alone rag dolling Fischer.



5 Bowls. I agree Fisher was being abused by Boss. Yes, Q4 Bosa was tiring but stats alone do not show how dominant he was. He was a beast last night and listening to Boomer this morning he noticed the same thing. Not sure what you were watching in the first three quarters.


Was watching with lots of people and honestly I wasnít just watching him. I didnít recall hearing his name much. He did have one sack and did have 3 qb hits, but they often donít say your name on every hit. I did replay the 4th q only....didnít notice him at all when KC scores 3 tds.
RE: Of course by that logic you'd never draft  
5BowlsSoon : 2/3/2020 8:27 pm : link
In comment 14802238 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
a PSU RB in the first round, let alone as a top 5 pick.


Curt Warner
Lenny Moore
John Cappelletti
Blair Thomas
FRANCO HARRIS
Bosa was an absolute monster and game-wrecker  
GuzzaBlue : 2/4/2020 8:29 am : link
during the Superbowl. I couldn't disagree more about your post.

12 QB pressures and 10 hurries. Mahomes had one of the worst games of his career and you could tell he felt the pressure.

We were watching the game at my friends and all you kept hearing from us is "Bosa in the backfield again". He was a monster. You could argue due to his age, he would be the first defensive player you'd start a franchise with.
RE: Bosa was an absolute monster and game-wrecker  
5BowlsSoon : 2/4/2020 8:38 am : link
In comment 14802700 GuzzaBlue said:
Quote:
during the Superbowl. I couldn't disagree more about your post.

12 QB pressures and 10 hurries. Mahomes had one of the worst games of his career and you could tell he felt the pressure.

We were watching the game at my friends and all you kept hearing from us is "Bosa in the backfield again". He was a monster. You could argue due to his age, he would be the first defensive player you'd start a franchise with.


What is the difference between quarterback pressures and hurries?

He had 1 sack and 3 qb hits

It seems to me a pressure and a hurry is the same thing? No?
Bosa would have been in the running for MVP if  
jlukes : 2/4/2020 8:48 am : link
San Francisco would have one.

Did you watch the game with your eyes closed?
won*  
jlukes : 2/4/2020 8:49 am : link
.
RE: You need good players everywhere  
MM_in_NYC : 2/4/2020 8:52 am : link
In comment 14801427 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
You do not pick players based on what position they play


thread should have stopped here with the first post
Some clarity on pressure stats  
Tuckrule : 2/4/2020 9:38 am : link
All hurries, hits and sacks are called ďpressuresĒ the hurry, hit and sacks are just categories to more clearly depict what happened. Mahomes pressure numbers from the super bowl are as follows:

52 drop backs
20 Total pressures
13 hurries
5 sacks
2 hits

Bosa accounted for 12 out of the 20 pressures. Yea really invisible 🤦‍♂️
In some threads..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/4/2020 9:41 am : link
a quite bow out by the OP is appropriate. But a path ignored here.
RE: RE: Bosa  
LeftHook : 2/4/2020 1:19 pm : link
In comment 14801562 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
In comment 14801475 5BowlsSoon said:


Quote:


3 tackles
1 sack

I donít see a stat labeled HURRIES but I did not have the tv on mute and I didnít hear his name mentioned much. I did hear Shermanís name mentioned a lot.

Iím not saying an EDGE guy is unimportant....Iím saying a GREAT CB > a GREAT EDGE guy probably because a GREAT OT will marginalize the GREAT EDGE GUY, like last night.



So you admit you weren't actually watching the game?

You were listening to the announcers' take instead while you went back and forth to the fridge for drinks and snacks?

If the Chiefs OL had been called for 20% of the time they were blatantly holding the Niners' DL the game was likely a different outcome.

On one actual sack of Mahomes, Buckner was being held and I mean like lassoed as and after he ripped past the OG over him.

That obviously didn't matter as a non call, but there were several others.

As per usual, a few screw ups by the refs impacted the game greatly.

As did Garapolo's miss of a wide open Sanders to win the game.

Eli he ain't.

Just thinking, were any of the 2 teams called for holding.
RE: Some clarity on pressure stats  
5BowlsSoon : 2/4/2020 1:25 pm : link
In comment 14802792 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
All hurries, hits and sacks are called ďpressuresĒ the hurry, hit and sacks are just categories to more clearly depict what happened. Mahomes pressure numbers from the super bowl are as follows:

52 drop backs
20 Total pressures
13 hurries
5 sacks
2 hits

Bosa accounted for 12 out of the 20 pressures. Yea really invisible 🤦‍♂️


Thanks tuck rule. That clears it up.
Read my original post fellows  
5BowlsSoon : 2/4/2020 1:36 pm : link
It was not about Bosa. It is about Young v Okudah. It is about choosing between a great EDGE rusher v a great shut down corner. Itís about Okudah >> Young or Simmons

The point has been made over and over but many here that Bosa had a great game with his one sack and 12 hurries. Made and noted. Time to move on......to the original point, if you feel led to.

if you have anything to add on the content of the OP, please do.

In your OP  
figgy2989 : 2/4/2020 1:39 pm : link
You clearly state that Bosa didn't have a good game.
RE: In your OP  
5BowlsSoon : 2/4/2020 1:57 pm : link
In comment 14803197 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
You clearly state that Bosa didn't have a good game.


I had a long OP and this is all I said about Bosa...Ē Just like last night, you hardly even heard Bosaís name being called. He had little effect on the outcome of the game. Ē

Many have responded to just this sentence ignoring everything else. If you or anyone believe Bosa had great effect on the game, fine by me. Iím not trying to talk you out of that...I shared why I didnít notice him so what more is there to say about Bosa? Your point has been noted. Iím just trying to move away from Bosa....As far as I know, Bosa wonít be a Giant anytime soon, but Okudah, Young, Simmons may be. This affects me much much more.

But if anyone Still Feels the need to brag on Bosa and how great he was Sunday night, okay, express yourself. I did mention him so I realize that is open for discussion too. Maybe you could also get back to discussing everything else brought up in the OP not Bosa related.
That is kind of the point  
figgy2989 : 2/4/2020 2:00 pm : link
In your OP and you stated again, you didn't notice Bosa. That in itself is the statement that makes the rest of your OP and subsequent posts irrelevant.

How do you expect to be taken seriously in your analysis of draft prospects when you it is pretty clear, you have no idea what you are watching?
RE: Okudah is an excellent corner, but there are no shut down corners.  
5BowlsSoon : 2/4/2020 2:09 pm : link
In comment 14801488 Ira said:
Quote:
Deion Sanders was and Revis was close. Watch the link below showing Okudah's plays against Clemson receivers. Sometimes he wins the battle - other times he doesn't. Ohio State CB Jeff Okudah vs Clemson (Fiesta Bowl) - ( New Window )


Hey Ira, I finally got around to watching the 6 minute video you linked. Overall I am even more impressed with Okudah than I was before I saw it. He is a great tackler, has very long arms, and great speed. That one long pass showed him running faster than the WR. There were a few catches made with him covering, with the last one, a TD in the endzone. Of course the qb had plenty of time to throw it which allowed Higgins to make a few moves to get open. There were two small passes caught against him as well.

It seems to me, our Baker looked this good in his last year at Georgia too.
RE: That is kind of the point  
5BowlsSoon : 2/4/2020 2:23 pm : link
In comment 14803212 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
In your OP and you stated again, you didn't notice Bosa. That in itself is the statement that makes the rest of your OP and subsequent posts irrelevant.

How do you expect to be taken seriously in your analysis of draft prospects when you it is pretty clear, you have no idea what you are watching?


Well, Iím really not interested in how you Judge me personally....Iím more concerned how you judge my content.

Too bad you havenít read this thread...I think Iíve said Several times I donít watch college football, so all I know about prospects is what I read or what videos on YouTube I watch. So, you really shouldnít take me seriously on anything I say about draft prospects. You can rebut or respond accordingly To the content as written though if you wish.

Oh, and one more thing since you want to talk about Bosa more than Okudah or Young....i have a question for you. Im sure you know more than I do and weíre watching the game more closely than I did....The last 3 times KC had the ball, they scored tds....would you mind telling me what Bosa did that affected the outcome of the game during those last three drives? Thanks.
The whole 49ers defense shit the bed with 7 minutes to go in the 4th  
figgy2989 : 2/4/2020 2:31 pm : link
Sherman couldn't cover anyone, safeties allowing Hill to get behind coverage. Saleh getting conservative with the play calling.

There are 10 other guys on that defense.



I don't recall either team called for offensive  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/4/2020 2:44 pm : link
line holding. I noticed KC doing it more often, especially vs Bosa but also vs Armstead and Buckner.

I'm ok with non calls during a big playoff game for anything other than egregious penalties.

Which is why I question the OPI call against Kittle. Not that it wasn't the correct call by the book, but it wasn't flagrant and IMO shouldn't have been called just as many by the book and in fact more flagrant holding penalties by the KC OL weren't called.

RE: The whole 49ers defense shit the bed with 7 minutes to go in the 4th  
5BowlsSoon : 2/4/2020 3:08 pm : link
In comment 14803269 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
Sherman couldn't cover anyone, safeties allowing Hill to get behind coverage. Saleh getting conservative with the play calling.

There are 10 other guys on that defense.




So you agree, he (and all the others) had no effect on them winning in the fourth quarter, but in fact had a great effect allowing for KC to win.

Now I concede, many here said Bosa had a lot of pressures which I obviously didnít notice because I donít think the announcers tell us who had a pressure on every passing play. They usually only tell us who made the tackle or who made the sack...maybe at times who hit the qb too as he was throwing. I concede I was watching the game with 20 other people while eating and drinking and having plenty of dialog with my friends. So I obviously I missed noticing Bosaís hurries. But I did replay the 4th quarter and didnít see him make any great plays to negatively effect KC, which led to their victory.

So, do you still want to talk about Bosa?

RE: I don't recall either team called for offensive  
5BowlsSoon : 2/4/2020 3:10 pm : link
In comment 14803290 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
line holding. I noticed KC doing it more often, especially vs Bosa but also vs Armstead and Buckner.

I'm ok with non calls during a big playoff game for anything other than egregious penalties.

Which is why I question the OPI call against Kittle. Not that it wasn't the correct call by the book, but it wasn't flagrant and IMO shouldn't have been called just as many by the book and in fact more flagrant holding penalties by the KC OL weren't called.


What about the pass interference call on 3rd and 10 in the endzone with the CB not looking back at the qb but rather just raising hands to shield the receiver? Was that egregious? I didnít think so. I donít recall him holding the receiver or obstructing him by having his arms on him.
5 Bowlssoon you really should ditch this thread, it's an  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/4/2020 3:41 pm : link
awful and simply incorrect premise.

To answer your question I will simply reply that the PI call in the end zone vs the DB who failed to turn and play the pass itself was a type of call made far more often and regularly than the OPI call vs Kittle.

And it looked like a catchable ball, even if poorly thrown.

Was it egregious? Not sure, as you point out there wasn't much in the way of actual contact, clutching, bumping or otherwise. But those types of plays often draw penalty flags.

RE: Two,penalties  
5BowlsSoon : 2/4/2020 4:22 pm : link
In comment 14803353 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
awful and simply incorrect premise.

To answer your question I will simply reply that the PI call in the end zone vs the DB who failed to turn and play the pass itself was a type of call made far more often and regularly than the OPI call vs Kittle.

And it looked like a catchable ball, even if poorly thrown.

Was it egregious? Not sure, as you point out there wasn't much in the way of actual contact, clutching, bumping or otherwise. But those types of plays often draw penalty flags.


So, we had two penalties that are penalties according to the ďletter of the lawď but for some reason we both arenít satisfied.
5BowlsSoon - it's because of the context of the game  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/4/2020 5:40 pm : link
being the SB itself, and the general tone of "let 'em play" that the officials did a good job following... Overall.

So we naturally question calls that seriously impacted the final score.
RE: I don't recall either team called for offensive  
Leg of Theismann : 2/4/2020 10:43 pm : link
In comment 14803290 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
line holding. I noticed KC doing it more often, especially vs Bosa but also vs Armstead and Buckner.

I'm ok with non calls during a big playoff game for anything other than egregious penalties.

Which is why I question the OPI call against Kittle. Not that it wasn't the correct call by the book, but it wasn't flagrant and IMO shouldn't have been called just as many by the book and in fact more flagrant holding penalties by the KC OL weren't called.


I thought the Kittle OPI was egregious, in the sense that he pushed twice (the 2nd one getting full arm extension, which is textbook OPI) and it resulted in him having separation that wouldn't have been there without the shove.

If there had been contact by both players, and the push by Kittle came in the midst of mutual "hand-fighting" (basically like the Rudolph non-OPI call in the Saints game) then I could understand people arguing for a non-call. But that's not what happened. The DB was simply running stride for stride with ZERO contact and Kittle took the initiative to just shove him away so as to create the space he needed to catch the ball.

Mainly the fact that 1) Kittle had full arm extension which refs are taught to watch for and call, and 2) there was NOT contact by both players, only Kittle, is why I'm surprised that so many people disagreed with the call.
RE: I read somewhere that Analytics say  
Joey in VA : 2/4/2020 10:48 pm : link
In comment 14801881 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
that a great CB is more valuable than a great Edge. Donít agree with that.
What great reference point, very substantive and backed up! Find it, link it and show it or it's just you posting more bullshit again about how you understand football. Here's the rub, you don't and nothing you post can convince anyone otherwise but you keep spewing bullshit anyway. You may have read that pass blocking efficiency is more valuable than pass rush efficiency, because it was an actual article, but you know what, fuck it, just say whatever you want without one iota of evidence because it's late and you're shit faced.
RE: RE: I read somewhere that Analytics say  
Joey in VA : 2/4/2020 11:00 pm : link
In comment 14802135 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
In comment 14801881 Dave on the UWS said:


Quote:


that a great CB is more valuable than a great Edge. Donít agree with that.



This was one of the points I was trying to make....a shutdown corner> Very good EDGE rusher.

Apparently Iím all alone thinking this.
You are alone in thinking this. Dave is a moron and so are you. With the rules that exist there is no more shut down CB. Did you watch super bowl 42 or 46? You and dave are fucking nitwits, don't eat the analytics shit sandwich, but nothing can stop you because you are both fucking morons. I know more about football than two of you combined, then squared then times 9 but have fun thinking you have a clue, you're a fucking moron.
RE: RE: RE: I read somewhere that Analytics say  
5BowlsSoon : 2/4/2020 11:39 pm : link
In comment 14803705 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14802135 5BowlsSoon said:


Quote:


In comment 14801881 Dave on the UWS said:


Quote:


that a great CB is more valuable than a great Edge. Donít agree with that.



This was one of the points I was trying to make....a shutdown corner> Very good EDGE rusher.

Apparently Iím all alone thinking this.

You are alone in thinking this. Dave is a moron and so are you. With the rules that exist there is no more shut down CB. Did you watch super bowl 42 or 46? You and dave are fucking nitwits, don't eat the analytics shit sandwich, but nothing can stop you because you are both fucking morons. I know more about football than two of you combined, then squared then times 9 but have fun thinking you have a clue, you're a fucking moron.


Joey, are you violating the code of conduct here with this post? I donít really know if the Moderators care about this kind of stuff, but it seems to me you did. Are you drunk? You sound like you are.

By the way, you have Provided not one shred of evidence to support your belief that a great CB is NOT > than an great Edge. Does that mean you have no evidence? I find that people who only attack the messenger usually are incapable for whatever reason to attack the message. So, if you have some persuasive evidence to convince us that a great Edge rusher is far more important to a defense than a great CB, Iím all ears.
This is Classic!!  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/5/2020 8:52 am : link
It is like you want everyone to ignore the utter ignorance in the OP and focus only on a certain point.

It's like a drunk vomiting all over your carpet and saying "Ignore the bile and phlegm. Just look at those intact carrots and peas!"

Saying Bosa was invisible and didn't impact the game is the height of stupidity. Most would slink away - instead, you preen and produce a plume of feathers!

A proud, fucking moron.
I did notice this in the 4th qtr...  
bw in dc : 2/5/2020 9:58 am : link
Bosa seemed to be rotating out more for Anthony Zettel. And any time heís off the field is a good thing for the offense.

Makes you wonder if the 9ers defensive coaching staff didnít plan wisely enough for the potential exhaustion factor chasing Mahomes for four quarters.
RE: I did notice this in the 4th qtr...  
5BowlsSoon : 2/5/2020 10:48 am : link
In comment 14803814 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Bosa seemed to be rotating out more for Anthony Zettel. And any time heís off the field is a good thing for the offense.

Makes you wonder if the 9ers defensive coaching staff didnít plan wisely enough for the potential exhaustion factor chasing Mahomes for four quarters.


Hey bw......does this make you feel better that the Giants were not interested in SELAH? I know several guys here were promoting his name. I couldnít understand why...his resume didnít just stand out to me. How about you?
Wasn't bw one of the Saleh cheerleaders  
figgy2989 : 2/5/2020 10:53 am : link
for HC?
RE: Wasn't bw one of the Saleh cheerleaders  
bw in dc : 2/5/2020 11:05 am : link
In comment 14803860 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
for HC?


Absolutely not. Not a fan of those coordinators who run that Seattle D...
My bad bw  
figgy2989 : 2/5/2020 11:09 am : link
There was someone around here singing Saleh's praises.
RE: RE: I did notice this in the 4th qtr...  
bw in dc : 2/5/2020 11:43 am : link
In comment 14803853 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:

Hey bw......does this make you feel better that the Giants were not interested in SELAH? I know several guys here were promoting his name. I couldnít understand why...his resume didnít just stand out to me. How about you?


I'm good with Judge over Salah - for sure.

The more I reflect on the coaching process, I hope we didn't miss out on Bieniemy. I watched a few interviews with him the last few weeks - stuff he did for the Super Bowl run up - and I was very impressed.

Plus, and this really stands out to me, is the Andy Reid coaching tree. It's very impressive with SB winners in John Harbaugh and Doug Pederson. Sean McDermott is doing very good work in Buffalo. Nagy is doing pretty well in Chicago. And Rivera was under Reid for a while...

Of course, Shurmur is also part of the Reid Tree. But I consider him an outlier... ;)

It makes me wonder, actually, if Jints Central may have held the Shurmur experience against Bienemy to a degree. Sort of the "been there, done that" reaction...
So if Shurmur was the outlier  
figgy2989 : 2/5/2020 11:48 am : link
What was Spags, Bowles and Leslie Frazier?
RE: RE: RE: I did notice this in the 4th qtr...  
5BowlsSoon : 2/5/2020 12:27 pm : link
In comment 14803914 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14803853 5BowlsSoon said:


Quote:



Hey bw......does this make you feel better that the Giants were not interested in SELAH? I know several guys here were promoting his name. I couldnít understand why...his resume didnít just stand out to me. How about you?



I'm good with Judge over Salah - for sure.

The more I reflect on the coaching process, I hope we didn't miss out on Bieniemy. I watched a few interviews with him the last few weeks - stuff he did for the Super Bowl run up - and I was very impressed.

Plus, and this really stands out to me, is the Andy Reid coaching tree. It's very impressive with SB winners in John Harbaugh and Doug Pederson. Sean McDermott is doing very good work in Buffalo. Nagy is doing pretty well in Chicago. And Rivera was under Reid for a while...

Of course, Shurmur is also part of the Reid Tree. But I consider him an outlier... ;)

It makes me wonder, actually, if Jints Central may have held the Shurmur experience against Bienemy to a degree. Sort of the "been there, done that" reaction...


I too liked what I read of Bieniemy but I donít understand how he said he would bring along Brady to be his OC. That seemed odd. The rap on Bieniemy as you probably know is that Reid still calls the plays.

As much as I liked B.....I LOVE JUDGE and I will take Garrett as my OC and be happy.
RE: My bad bw  
5BowlsSoon : 2/5/2020 12:28 pm : link
In comment 14803880 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
There was someone around here singing Saleh's praises.


I doubt any of those guys will come out and identify themselves after that Miami meltdown.
Okudah v Simmons v a Tackle  
5BowlsSoon : 2/5/2020 12:32 pm : link
Leaving Young out....I know everyone prefers Young over anyone and believes the great EDGE rusher trumps a great CB.

But how about Okudah v Simmons or a Tackle. This scenario could easily take place, especially if either Lions take a qb or the Lions trade out to a team who wants a qb.

Does a great LB (although some feel he is a tweener) Trump a great CB?
Does a great tackle Trump a great CB?

Thoughts?
RE: Okudah v Simmons v a Tackle  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/5/2020 12:36 pm : link
In comment 14803963 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
Leaving Young out....I know everyone prefers Young over anyone and believes the great EDGE rusher trumps a great CB.

But how about Okudah v Simmons or a Tackle. This scenario could easily take place, especially if either Lions take a qb or the Lions trade out to a team who wants a qb.

Does a great LB (although some feel he is a tweener) Trump a great CB?
Does a great tackle Trump a great CB?

Thoughts?


My main thought at this point is that you are immature and a very poor listener, or you would have abandoned this thread if not outright deleted it.

I will not enable your post any further. /out

RE: So if Shurmur was the outlier  
bw in dc : 2/5/2020 1:48 pm : link
In comment 14803917 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
What was Spags, Bowles and Leslie Frazier?


Spags didn't work out - true.

Bowles was with the Jets. Do we have to elaborate beyond that?

Frazier didn't work out either - true.

But you are not going to have a 100% hit/success rate...

With Shurmur, there was a case to be made that his prior HC experience was in Cleveland, where coaches go to die. So I could see the Giants thinking a second bite of the apple might work, especially after he did such a good job as an OC.
RE: RE: Okudah v Simmons v a Tackle  
5BowlsSoon : 2/5/2020 2:21 pm : link
In comment 14803967 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
In comment 14803963 5BowlsSoon said:


Quote:


Leaving Young out....I know everyone prefers Young over anyone and believes the great EDGE rusher trumps a great CB.

But how about Okudah v Simmons or a Tackle. This scenario could easily take place, especially if either Lions take a qb or the Lions trade out to a team who wants a qb.

Does a great LB (although some feel he is a tweener) Trump a great CB?
Does a great tackle Trump a great CB?

Thoughts?



My main thought at this point is that you are immature and a very poor listener, or you would have abandoned this thread if not outright deleted it.

I will not enable your post any further. /out


Thank you for the contributions you added to this thread. Iím sorry to see you go. Maybe you will like my next thread...or maybe not.
Maybe..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/5/2020 2:59 pm : link
next time you won't sound like a clueless idiot in starting a thread and then sticking to the ignorance multiple times.

"They didn't mention Bosa much on the telecast I was watching, so he didn't have an impact on the game, and SF lost, so clearly he was terrible"

But this is even richer:

Quote:
I think Iíve said Several times I donít watch college football, so all I know about prospects is what I read or what videos on YouTube I watch. So, you really shouldnít take me seriously on anything I say about draft prospects.


If you don't know shit about watching a game and don't know shit about prospects, what the fuck is there to discuss? Like I said above - bailing on this thread was the best course and you've quadrupled down on the idiocy.
Be great to have both  
Rolyrock : 2/6/2020 2:37 am : link
Pass rusher and shut down CB.
A few teams from the pass had that. Think the Eagles years ago.
RE: Be great to have both  
5BowlsSoon : 2/6/2020 8:10 am : link
In comment 14804560 Rolyrock said:
Quote:
Pass rusher and shut down CB.
A few teams from the pass had that. Think the Eagles years ago.


I canít argue with that.
We did have Golden, who I believe had 10 sacks this year, which is one more than Nick Bosa had if you want a comparison. Hopefully we resign Golden as well as pick up another EDGE RUSHER to compliment him. I think we may have a better chance picking a quality edge up in Free agency than we do the draft if we go LB, tackle one two.

Of course, if Detroit doesnít take Okudah for whatever reason at 3, we will have a choice to take Okudah or anyone else. This will show us how the Giants feel about having a shutdown corner vs anyone else. Remember, we were told BAKER was a shutdown corner too...that no one scored a TD against him in 2-3 years or something like that. Iím not sure what great CBs will be available during FA, not having looked at that list yet.
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