He trusts advisers he has known for years, too — like his brother, Chris, the Giants’ senior vice president of player personnel; and his nephew, Tim McDonnell, the team’s assistant director of player personnel. Mara highly respects McDonnell’s talent evaluating skills.
Mara still bounces ideas off Accorsi and former NFL GM Bill Polian: What do you see? What do you think we’re doing wrong?
Mara is a loyalist through and through; and he's still too naive to realize that the last two SBs were more good fortunate than those teams being on the cusp on long term success...
BTW, if this is true and DG is fired after a bad year, what happened to all those posters who thought we should let the coach approve the GM. Matt Rhule could do that but not JJ.
Gettleman isn't going anywhere. Mara defended him up and down and clear as day endorsed him.
Mara thinks Gettleman is doing well and thinks he has a solid plan.
Mara gave him a qualified endorsement- he mentioned misses on personnel and that Dave knows that we need to start winning. So, not so sure he survives another 4-5 win season. 7 wins and up he probably buys another year.
Gettleman isn't going anywhere. Mara defended him up and down and clear as day endorsed him.
Mara thinks Gettleman is doing well and thinks he has a solid plan.
Mara gave him a qualified endorsement- he mentioned misses on personnel and that Dave knows that we need to start winning. So, not so sure he survives another 4-5 win season. 7 wins and up he probably buys another year.
The Giants have brand new head coach, new defensive system, new offensive system, potentially 3 new starters on the o-line, a 2nd year QB, presumably several new defensive starters, a secondary with a number of 2nd year players -- 7 wins (+3 from this year) will be a huge success.
I'm waiting for Gettlemen to really screw up this offseason Â
staff "they" tell DG how to do his job and the players they need. It makes sense given how DG loves to sack HC's when he gives them garbage to work with but retains his job.
Hopefully that unpolished twit retires or goes back into the film cave.
A few weeks ago, during this latest coaching search, Mara received a letter from a fan. Yes, he still gets letters — stacks of them when the Giants are losing.
The letter essentially said this:
If you really want to do what’s best for the Giants, leave your keys on your desk before you go home tonight.
The Giants went 5-11 and 4-12 and Gettleman still has a job, so Mara has already been patient. If Gettleman were to be fired after another losing season, nobody can say that Mara wasn't patient.
p.s.--I'm confident in Gettleman, but still.... reminds me of this sketch from Key and Peele - ( New Window )
Stupid by mara if he truly did leak this. Really don’t even like (publicly) putting a HC or anyone on the hot seat. Just seems almost childish to me and at times it can be counter productive. For a gm? It’s just dumb.
I've been reading your posts here for YEARS. Some I agree with some I don't. Not that it matters at all.
But at this point how the hell can you not know that JOHN MARA PICKS THE HEAD COACH. The Giants GM is in the room and I'm sure has some input but the owners hire the coach not the GM.
It's not like that's a secret of Mara tries to hide it.
RE: Seems like Geoff Schwartz is always quick to toss his hat in the ring Â
for a damning quote or two against the Giants. Since, you know, he gave so much to the team and got so little in return...
Quote:
“They stuck to their old ways of doing things at a time when football is changing,” former Giants offensive guard Geoff Schwartz said. “It just feels like they don’t have a plan. It’s hard when things are going really well to decide that you need to do something much different.”
Geoff Schwartz is a clown. I would be embarrassed to even mention the Gints organization if I were him.
But putting the screws to him this year is the huge mistake. 1st year head coach, lame duck GM and a lot of cap space is a recipe for disaster. Give him and the coach 2 years to show progress.
The roster, outside of Daniel Jones, is a total shitshow.
Bringing him back for 2020 was an indefensible decision.
Expecting results with a roster no where near ready to win, a rookie head coach and a ton of cap space is a recipe for Gettleman going out and blowing our salary cap space and hurting the team for years to come.
and asks them to explain how it happened? And and an in-conference competitor, at that? SMH.
Quote:
And when things are going wrong, Mara likes to consult executives for teams the Giants just played, like Packers president Mark Murphy last season. Mara sometimes appreciates a fresh set of eyes, so he can figure out: Am I missing something?
What’s wrong with that? If they are willing to talk, you listen.
RE: Jerry Reese became the GM after Ernie Accorsi retired... Â
And kept Tom Coughlin as Head Coach. If Gettleman "retires" after the 2020 season, odds are that he'll be replaced by Kevin Abrams, who will no doubt keep Joe Judge as Head Coach.
Hopefully we’re not heading down the same road here with DG...he’s got one HR pick here like he did in Carolina (Barkley) but a lot of failed FA acquisitions highlighted his tenure there as well. And, like JR here, many of his picks aren’t there anymore.
“Gettleman also missed on two second-round picks: defensive end Kony Ealy in 2014 and wide receiver Devin Funchess in 2015. That led to using high draft picks the past two seasons to replenish those positions instead of filling other needs.
Only seven of 21 players selected by Gettleman from 2013 to 2016 are on the current roster and five of those players are free agents this offseason. Of the 25 free agents Gettleman signed, none are on the current roster.
Gettleman did make some good choices. Michael Oher, the anchor at left tackle during the Super Bowl year, was one in free agency. Selecting running back Christian McCaffrey with the eighth pick in 2017 was a home run. But overall, the draft and free-agent moves didn’t strengthen the roster enough in the long term.”
staff "they" tell DG how to do his job and the players they need. It makes sense given how DG loves to sack HC's when he gives them garbage to work with but retains his job.
Hopefully that unpolished twit retires or goes back into the film cave.
staff "they" tell DG how to do his job and the players they need. It makes sense given how DG loves to sack HC's when he gives them garbage to work with but retains his job.
Hopefully that unpolished twit retires or goes back into the film cave.
First we know Mara has already said that Dave needs to step up publicly.
Second, you can criticize DG for his free agency and trade moves, but he's been pretty solid with his drafts.
I expect Free Agency to be much better this year. Not has desperate as his first year, and now money. His only big FA hit was Solder, but we were desperate and people don't want to remember that.
Plus I have to think that our coaching staff is better than anything we've had in 4 years (not that hard to imagine) so they should have some great input in who to bring in.
You also don't have Betcher just asking for his old guys. You'll have fresh eyes also evaluating talent.
Hopefully we’re not heading down the same road here with DG...he’s got one HR pick here like he did in Carolina (Barkley) but a lot of failed FA acquisitions highlighted his tenure there as well. And, like JR here, many of his picks aren’t there anymore.
“Gettleman also missed on two second-round picks: defensive end Kony Ealy in 2014 and wide receiver Devin Funchess in 2015. That led to using high draft picks the past two seasons to replenish those positions instead of filling other needs.
Only seven of 21 players selected by Gettleman from 2013 to 2016 are on the current roster and five of those players are free agents this offseason. Of the 25 free agents Gettleman signed, none are on the current roster.
Gettleman did make some good choices. Michael Oher, the anchor at left tackle during the Super Bowl year, was one in free agency. Selecting running back Christian McCaffrey with the eighth pick in 2017 was a home run. But overall, the draft and free-agent moves didn’t strengthen the roster enough in the long term.”
Thanks for posting this. It's always a good reminder how many overrate Gettleman's stint in Carolina as the GM. A few of us - Greg on LI comes to mind - have looked closely at DG's drafts and moves in free agency for Carolina and pretty quickly discerned his work there was not compelling.
Indeed, he does get some credit for their SB run in 2015. But that was Marty Hurney's team. Just like when the Cowboys won the 1995 SB. Barry Switzer was the HC. But everyone knows that was really Jimmy Johnson's team.
Hopefully we’re not heading down the same road here with DG...he’s got one HR pick here like he did in Carolina (Barkley) but a lot of failed FA acquisitions highlighted his tenure there as well. And, like JR here, many of his picks aren’t there anymore.
“Gettleman also missed on two second-round picks: defensive end Kony Ealy in 2014 and wide receiver Devin Funchess in 2015. That led to using high draft picks the past two seasons to replenish those positions instead of filling other needs.
Only seven of 21 players selected by Gettleman from 2013 to 2016 are on the current roster and five of those players are free agents this offseason. Of the 25 free agents Gettleman signed, none are on the current roster.
Gettleman did make some good choices. Michael Oher, the anchor at left tackle during the Super Bowl year, was one in free agency. Selecting running back Christian McCaffrey with the eighth pick in 2017 was a home run. But overall, the draft and free-agent moves didn’t strengthen the roster enough in the long term.”
This is a bit misleading on the draft picks.
Out of the 21 players he drafted, 14 are still playing in the NFL. And all of the players he drafted in 2017, including SB winning PK Harrison Butker. 11 of his draftees ended the season as starters(including the 2017 draft that was suspiciously not referenced in the post above)
the rest were Gettlemans, including most of the OL/DL which were strengths of that team. Newton, Keuchly, Kalil, Olsen, Norman, Johnson were key players that were Hurley's but I don't think it's fair to say that Gettleman didn't have a big part of that team (Oher, Turner, Norwell, Remmers, Lotulelei, Short, Ealy alone on the lines). Link - ( New Window )
RE: 19 of the players on the 2015 Panthers were holdovers from Hurney Â
In comment 14804909 YAJ2112 said:
[quote] ...Newton, Keuchly, Kalil, Olsen, Norman, Johnson were key players that were Hurley's but I don't think it's fair to say that Gettleman didn't have a big part of that team (Oher, Turner, Norwell, Remmers, Lotulelei, Short, Ealy alone on the lines).
Well, Hurley also added Ginn, Stewart, Tolbert, Thomas Davis. Just look at the stats that year. Them majority of the production that year were from Hurney's players.
Yes, DG did add some good players. But to even suggest that it's like this 50/50 contribution is just not accurate. His job was made much easier by his predecessor.
In comment 14804909 YAJ2112 said:
[quote] ...Newton, Keuchly, Kalil, Olsen, Norman, Johnson were key players that were Hurley's but I don't think it's fair to say that Gettleman didn't have a big part of that team (Oher, Turner, Norwell, Remmers, Lotulelei, Short, Ealy alone on the lines).
Well, Hurley also added Ginn, Stewart, Tolbert, Thomas Davis. Just look at the stats that year. Them majority of the production that year were from Hurney's players.
Yes, DG did add some good players. But to even suggest that it's like this 50/50 contribution is just not accurate. His job was made much easier by his predecessor.
Actually Gettleman added Ginn. Hurley drafted him but Ginn left as a FA only to be brought back by DG.
so they fire him and bring in someone who doesn't get to pick his own coach?
Maybe it's time to stop thinking of the GM as the coach's boss and start thinking of them as being on equal footing within the organization?
The bigger problem is why keep him around to enter free agency with enough cap room to set the franchise back half a decade when his FA moves are by far his weakest work to date as GM of the Giants.
RE: I'm guessing Gettleman got a job over Lombardo Â
on the Giants, his job was made much more difficult by his predecessor, yet not much of that gets accounted for in the never-ending bashing of him.
So let's bottom line it - Success in going to a SB - mainly Hurney's work. Failure when given little to work with - Gettleman's fault.
Some of you guys still can't get past the way he was hired.
I see a trend in this country in holding onto things from 3-4 years ago:)
I definitely don't runaway from it. The way Gettleman was hired still bothers me. If there was anywhere in this organization that a Judge-like move - thinking way out of box, getting out of the comfort zone - was needed, it was the GM hire.
We're two years in, and I think it's very hard to separate DG from Reese at this point. We continue to have poor records and the coaching hires - since Coughlin - have been putrid.
I'm not sure taking solace in cap space, a high pick investment in a RB, and possibly some draft picks that may or may not be hits (yet) is the best place to be right now...
I've always maintained 3 full off seasons is a fair place to measure a GM. Switching coaches complicates that, but I hope Mara does take a hard look at the GM's body of work after this year.
That said, Gettleman's had a lot of ammo for 2 years, let's look at what he'll have had in 3 off seasons:
- Opportunity to hire 2 head coaches
- 3 top 10 1st round picks
- 5 overall 1st round picks
- Hand picked starting QB
- Hand picked franchise running back
- Completely re-built O-line, including highest paid lineman in league history at the time
- More guaranteed money issued in 2018 off season that in 2016 Reese "splurge"
- Allowed to cut/trade virtually all big contracts from previous GM
I think it's quite fair with that amount of latitude, by year 3 you should be putting a winner on the field.
This is what galls me. When an organization puts family members in high-ranking executive positions they're unqualified for, it says winning isn't their top priority. Chris Mara and Tim McDonnell shouldn't even be on the payroll, let alone in an executive role.
Mara still bounces ideas off Accorsi and former NFL GM Bill Polian: What do you see? What do you think we’re doing wrong?
Mara is a loyalist through and through; and he's still too naive to realize that the last two SBs were more good fortunate than those teams being on the cusp on long term success...
Mara thinks Gettleman is doing well and thinks he has a solid plan.
Quote:
Gettleman isn't going anywhere. Mara defended him up and down and clear as day endorsed him.
Mara thinks Gettleman is doing well and thinks he has a solid plan.
Mara gave him a qualified endorsement- he mentioned misses on personnel and that Dave knows that we need to start winning. So, not so sure he survives another 4-5 win season. 7 wins and up he probably buys another year.
The Giants have brand new head coach, new defensive system, new offensive system, potentially 3 new starters on the o-line, a 2nd year QB, presumably several new defensive starters, a secondary with a number of 2nd year players -- 7 wins (+3 from this year) will be a huge success.
Hopefully that unpolished twit retires or goes back into the film cave.
with Mara?
The letter essentially said this:
If you really want to do what’s best for the Giants, leave your keys on your desk before you go home tonight.
p.s.--I'm confident in Gettleman, but still....
reminds me of this sketch from Key and Peele - ( New Window )
But at this point how the hell can you not know that JOHN MARA PICKS THE HEAD COACH. The Giants GM is in the room and I'm sure has some input but the owners hire the coach not the GM.
It's not like that's a secret of Mara tries to hide it.
Quote:
“They stuck to their old ways of doing things at a time when football is changing,” former Giants offensive guard Geoff Schwartz said. “It just feels like they don’t have a plan. It’s hard when things are going really well to decide that you need to do something much different.”
The roster, outside of Daniel Jones, is a total shitshow.
Bringing him back for 2020 was an indefensible decision.
Expecting results with a roster no where near ready to win, a rookie head coach and a ton of cap space is a recipe for Gettleman going out and blowing our salary cap space and hurting the team for years to come.
I don’t think Gettleman has done well at all, but hopefully he’s not on a short lease and making desperate decisions.
Hopefully he and Mara agree he’s here to shore up a few more things then retiring.
Agree but I think we’d appreciate him even more if we had a dominant pass rusher that took advantage of his double teams.
Quote:
And when things are going wrong, Mara likes to consult executives for teams the Giants just played, like Packers president Mark Murphy last season. Mara sometimes appreciates a fresh set of eyes, so he can figure out: Am I missing something?
What’s wrong with that? If they are willing to talk, you listen.
You nailed it Klaatu
The roster, outside of Daniel Jones, is a total shitshow.
Sticking to your guns that Barkley isn't a worthy player I see. Some people pick a hill to die on, not realizing that it is a giant pile of manure....
“Gettleman also missed on two second-round picks: defensive end Kony Ealy in 2014 and wide receiver Devin Funchess in 2015. That led to using high draft picks the past two seasons to replenish those positions instead of filling other needs.
Only seven of 21 players selected by Gettleman from 2013 to 2016 are on the current roster and five of those players are free agents this offseason. Of the 25 free agents Gettleman signed, none are on the current roster.
Gettleman did make some good choices. Michael Oher, the anchor at left tackle during the Super Bowl year, was one in free agency. Selecting running back Christian McCaffrey with the eighth pick in 2017 was a home run. But overall, the draft and free-agent moves didn’t strengthen the roster enough in the long term.”
Hopefully that unpolished twit retires or goes back into the film cave.
Shurmur is the only coach he's ever fired lol.
Quote:
staff "they" tell DG how to do his job and the players they need. It makes sense given how DG loves to sack HC's when he gives them garbage to work with but retains his job.
Hopefully that unpolished twit retires or goes back into the film cave.
Shurmur is the only coach he's ever fired lol.
Mara and Tisch fired PS, wasn’t gettlemans call
First we know Mara has already said that Dave needs to step up publicly.
Second, you can criticize DG for his free agency and trade moves, but he's been pretty solid with his drafts.
I expect Free Agency to be much better this year. Not has desperate as his first year, and now money. His only big FA hit was Solder, but we were desperate and people don't want to remember that.
Plus I have to think that our coaching staff is better than anything we've had in 4 years (not that hard to imagine) so they should have some great input in who to bring in.
You also don't have Betcher just asking for his old guys. You'll have fresh eyes also evaluating talent.
Stupid article.
“Gettleman also missed on two second-round picks: defensive end Kony Ealy in 2014 and wide receiver Devin Funchess in 2015. That led to using high draft picks the past two seasons to replenish those positions instead of filling other needs.
Only seven of 21 players selected by Gettleman from 2013 to 2016 are on the current roster and five of those players are free agents this offseason. Of the 25 free agents Gettleman signed, none are on the current roster.
Gettleman did make some good choices. Michael Oher, the anchor at left tackle during the Super Bowl year, was one in free agency. Selecting running back Christian McCaffrey with the eighth pick in 2017 was a home run. But overall, the draft and free-agent moves didn’t strengthen the roster enough in the long term.”
Thanks for posting this. It's always a good reminder how many overrate Gettleman's stint in Carolina as the GM. A few of us - Greg on LI comes to mind - have looked closely at DG's drafts and moves in free agency for Carolina and pretty quickly discerned his work there was not compelling.
Indeed, he does get some credit for their SB run in 2015. But that was Marty Hurney's team. Just like when the Cowboys won the 1995 SB. Barry Switzer was the HC. But everyone knows that was really Jimmy Johnson's team.
“Gettleman also missed on two second-round picks: defensive end Kony Ealy in 2014 and wide receiver Devin Funchess in 2015. That led to using high draft picks the past two seasons to replenish those positions instead of filling other needs.
Only seven of 21 players selected by Gettleman from 2013 to 2016 are on the current roster and five of those players are free agents this offseason. Of the 25 free agents Gettleman signed, none are on the current roster.
Gettleman did make some good choices. Michael Oher, the anchor at left tackle during the Super Bowl year, was one in free agency. Selecting running back Christian McCaffrey with the eighth pick in 2017 was a home run. But overall, the draft and free-agent moves didn’t strengthen the roster enough in the long term.”
This is a bit misleading on the draft picks.
Out of the 21 players he drafted, 14 are still playing in the NFL. And all of the players he drafted in 2017, including SB winning PK Harrison Butker. 11 of his draftees ended the season as starters(including the 2017 draft that was suspiciously not referenced in the post above)
Link - ( New Window )
[quote] ...Newton, Keuchly, Kalil, Olsen, Norman, Johnson were key players that were Hurley's but I don't think it's fair to say that Gettleman didn't have a big part of that team (Oher, Turner, Norwell, Remmers, Lotulelei, Short, Ealy alone on the lines).
Well, Hurley also added Ginn, Stewart, Tolbert, Thomas Davis. Just look at the stats that year. Them majority of the production that year were from Hurney's players.
Yes, DG did add some good players. But to even suggest that it's like this 50/50 contribution is just not accurate. His job was made much easier by his predecessor.
So let's bottom line it - Success in going to a SB - mainly Hurney's work. Failure when given little to work with - Gettleman's fault.
Some of you guys still can't get past the way he was hired.
I see a trend in this country in holding onto things from 3-4 years ago:)
[quote] ...Newton, Keuchly, Kalil, Olsen, Norman, Johnson were key players that were Hurley's but I don't think it's fair to say that Gettleman didn't have a big part of that team (Oher, Turner, Norwell, Remmers, Lotulelei, Short, Ealy alone on the lines).
Well, Hurley also added Ginn, Stewart, Tolbert, Thomas Davis. Just look at the stats that year. Them majority of the production that year were from Hurney's players.
Yes, DG did add some good players. But to even suggest that it's like this 50/50 contribution is just not accurate. His job was made much easier by his predecessor.
Actually Gettleman added Ginn. Hurley drafted him but Ginn left as a FA only to be brought back by DG.
Maybe it's time to stop thinking of the GM as the coach's boss and start thinking of them as being on equal footing within the organization?
The bigger problem is why keep him around to enter free agency with enough cap room to set the franchise back half a decade when his FA moves are by far his weakest work to date as GM of the Giants.
Are you getting Lombardo and Lombardi confused?
It is when you look at the horrid roster he's built.
So let's bottom line it - Success in going to a SB - mainly Hurney's work. Failure when given little to work with - Gettleman's fault.
Some of you guys still can't get past the way he was hired.
I see a trend in this country in holding onto things from 3-4 years ago:)
I definitely don't runaway from it. The way Gettleman was hired still bothers me. If there was anywhere in this organization that a Judge-like move - thinking way out of box, getting out of the comfort zone - was needed, it was the GM hire.
We're two years in, and I think it's very hard to separate DG from Reese at this point. We continue to have poor records and the coaching hires - since Coughlin - have been putrid.
I'm not sure taking solace in cap space, a high pick investment in a RB, and possibly some draft picks that may or may not be hits (yet) is the best place to be right now...
That said, Gettleman's had a lot of ammo for 2 years, let's look at what he'll have had in 3 off seasons:
- Opportunity to hire 2 head coaches
- 3 top 10 1st round picks
- 5 overall 1st round picks
- Hand picked starting QB
- Hand picked franchise running back
- Completely re-built O-line, including highest paid lineman in league history at the time
- More guaranteed money issued in 2018 off season that in 2016 Reese "splurge"
- Allowed to cut/trade virtually all big contracts from previous GM
I think it's quite fair with that amount of latitude, by year 3 you should be putting a winner on the field.
9-23
9-23
Typed it 3 times so you all get it through your heads.
It is not good enough.
Of fucking course he has to do better this year.
He will have a shit ton of money to spend.
The pressure is on DG
It fucking should be.