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Vacchiano: 7 Giants who could become cap casualties

Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/6/2020 7:48 am
FYI...


These 7 Giants could become cap casualties this offseason - ( New Window )
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RE: Iíd keep Ogletree.  
BamaBlue : 2/6/2020 8:44 am : link
In comment 14804598 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
.


I have to say that you're in a very small group of people who think Ogletree can contribute. Even with his salary and cap hit aside, I don't know how his on-field presence is a positive?
Personally  
Jan in DC : 2/6/2020 8:51 am : link
I like Pulley. He didn't play last year because of Halapio but I thought he played pretty well when he got the burn the year before. Still don't know why they ran with Halapio over him.

As for everyone else, I'm ok with getting rid of them. Solder and Tate won't be cut, but if they were I wouldn't shed a tear.
None of these seven are earning their paychecks.  
Klaatu : 2/6/2020 8:56 am : link
All of them should be replaced in either free agency or the draft, except for Solder, because cutting him doesn't make financial sense this year. In light of Shepard's concussion issues, you could make a case that it would be wise to keep Tate around for another year, too.
RE: RE: Iíd keep Ogletree.  
Big Blue '56 : 2/6/2020 9:01 am : link
In comment 14804631 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 14804598 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


.



I have to say that you're in a very small group of people who think Ogletree can contribute. Even with his salary and cap hit aside, I don't know how his on-field presence is a positive?


I simply agree with RVís take on this:

Quote:


But remember, this is a very young defense about to learn a new scheme. The Giants could use some veteran leadership. Ogletree is only 28, and while his play doesn't justify his $10 million salary, he could be a good bridge until Ryan Connelly, who played well as a rookie before he got hurt last season, is ready to take over. Perhaps a pay cut could be in order here.

...  
christian : 2/6/2020 9:02 am : link
Solder is going into year 10 of his career and has been banged up and/or ineffective for 2 full years.

There's a good chance his body is shot. It'd be more of a shock that he rebounded. Most guys actually are on their way out after 9 years of starting. The statistical outliers of Peters and Whitworth have made some fans coo coo.

I'd much rather take the 27M saved over the next 2 years and invest it in a player like Dennis Kelley with far fewer miles on him, who's shown he actually can bounce over to RT.

He's a more realistic option if the Giants want to placehold for a draft pick.
The Cuts Should Be...  
Jim in Tampa : 2/6/2020 9:05 am : link
Ogletree, Ellison, Bethea and Martin.

No replacement for Solder, so he stays.

If Tate had played all 16 games he was on track for 70+ catches and nearly 1,000 yards. He stays too.

Pulley should stay at least through camp, until the Giants see what they have at C.
RE: The Cuts Should Be...  
LS : 2/6/2020 9:09 am : link
In comment 14804650 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
Ogletree, Ellison, Bethea and Martin.

No replacement for Solder, so he stays.

If Tate had played all 16 games he was on track for 70+ catches and nearly 1,000 yards. He stays too.

Pulley should stay at least through camp, until the Giants see what they have at C.


+1
Iíd rather give a young guy a shot  
Default : 2/6/2020 9:14 am : link
than keep paying that asshole Tate.
You need to have healthy replacements and evaluate the cost of  
Ivan15 : 2/6/2020 9:15 am : link
replacements before you get rid of guys. Tate, Solder should stay for now. Martin is one dimensional and Bethea was playing out of position. Both should go.

I think Ogletree may be overly criticized but the new coaching staff needs to evaluate.

I still like Ellison but he is easily replaced. I am not sure about Pulley but who else do you have? Temporarily, at least, he is the starter.

...  
christian : 2/6/2020 9:21 am : link
I'd also rather the coaches coach the players, and not another round of mentors, and coaches on the field. How did that work out for the last crew?

A player should be on the Giants because he's the best contributor to the Giants winning games and fighting for a playoff spot.
It's time to re-think...  
BamaBlue : 2/6/2020 9:24 am : link
the philosophy of keeping high-priced players to be role models. These are professional athletes and leaders in their own right. The Giants don't have enough talent to afford the luxury of keeping people like Ogletree, on the chance he may be able to influence young players, or shepherd them into the NFL..
RE: ...  
Big Blue '56 : 2/6/2020 9:27 am : link
In comment 14804664 christian said:
Quote:
I'd also rather the coaches coach the players, and not another round of mentors, and coaches on the field. How did that work out for the last crew?

A player should be on the Giants because he's the best contributor to the Giants winning games and fighting for a playoff spot.


It could be a new paradigm here, so we should find out shortly. Until we do, our takes are kind of premature, no?
RE: Keep Tate  
jvm52106 : 2/6/2020 9:31 am : link
In comment 14804596 ron mexico said:
Quote:
Keep pulley til final cuts at least

Also fine with hanging on to solder and Ellison.

We are not strapped for cap, no need to go scorched earth this offseason.


Cutting Pulley gives us some cap toom and no negative impact. A backup center can be found cheaply or, assuming he makes it back Halapio becomes the backup. A starting Center will be had from FA or the draft.
Get rid of as many losers as possible.  
Mr. Bungle : 2/6/2020 9:32 am : link
Ogletree has been as responsible for the losing as anyone. Punt him out of here.
RE: One more year for Solder  
WillVAB : 2/6/2020 9:45 am : link
In comment 14804594 JonC said:
Quote:
because we have no backup plan at LT, and I do think he'll rebound after a rough year.

Cut the rest, including Tate.


Both Solder and Tate are worth riding out one more year. Move on next year when the Giants will need the money to lock in homegrown talent.
Agree with all 7 of them  
Earl the goat : 2/6/2020 9:55 am : link
Except I think Solder can play RT for one mire year and then cut him
Saves us a ton of dead space
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 2/6/2020 9:56 am : link
In comment 14804672 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14804664 christian said:


Quote:


I'd also rather the coaches coach the players, and not another round of mentors, and coaches on the field. How did that work out for the last crew?

A player should be on the Giants because he's the best contributor to the Giants winning games and fighting for a playoff spot.



It could be a new paradigm here, so we should find out shortly. Until we do, our takes are kind of premature, no?


My take is guys who struggled with assignments, execution, and/or maturity aren't very valuable as mentors or contributors.

Take a guy like Ogletree -- by many accounts a leader off the field. On the field if he's making mistakes, missing assignments, and contributing to the losses -- I don't see how his leadership resonates with young guys, especially when he's making 10X money.

Now of course I don't know he's making those mistakes. If the new staff feels it was all the fruit of Bettcher's staff, that's another story.

But then he's not just here to mentor, he's here to be a good player. That's what I would prefer.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
Big Blue '56 : 2/6/2020 9:59 am : link
In comment 14804707 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14804672 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 14804664 christian said:


Quote:


I'd also rather the coaches coach the players, and not another round of mentors, and coaches on the field. How did that work out for the last crew?

A player should be on the Giants because he's the best contributor to the Giants winning games and fighting for a playoff spot.



It could be a new paradigm here, so we should find out shortly. Until we do, our takes are kind of premature, no?



My take is guys who struggled with assignments, execution, and/or maturity aren't very valuable as mentors or contributors.

Take a guy like Ogletree -- by many accounts a leader off the field. On the field if he's making mistakes, missing assignments, and contributing to the losses -- I don't see how his leadership resonates with young guys, especially when he's making 10X money.

Now of course I don't know he's making those mistakes. If the new staff feels it was all the fruit of Bettcher's staff, that's another story.

But then he's not just here to mentor, he's here to be a good player. That's what I would prefer.


Thatís certainly a fair take
why would they cut Tate?  
giants#1 : 2/6/2020 10:16 am : link
A comparable WR will cost at least as much and you need at least 3 solid WRs nowadays.

Bethea/Pulley might make it to camp at least. You need depth and want to create as much competition as possible and there isn't a ton saved by cutting them, especially when factoring in what their replacements will cost.

Ogletree, Martin and Ellison should be cut ASAP.
Keep Tate  
mdthedream : 2/6/2020 10:20 am : link
and Nate. Nate at 6.6 mill not worth cutting unless you added OT than you can make that decision. I feel Nate was coming off injury in preseason plus with the issue with his kid
gives him a pass.
RE: RE: RE: RE: ...  
Rory : 2/6/2020 10:21 am : link
In comment 14804708 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14804707 christian said:


Quote:


In comment 14804672 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 14804664 christian said:


Quote:


I'd also rather the coaches coach the players, and not another round of mentors, and coaches on the field. How did that work out for the last crew?

A player should be on the Giants because he's the best contributor to the Giants winning games and fighting for a playoff spot.



It could be a new paradigm here, so we should find out shortly. Until we do, our takes are kind of premature, no?



My take is guys who struggled with assignments, execution, and/or maturity aren't very valuable as mentors or contributors.

Take a guy like Ogletree -- by many accounts a leader off the field. On the field if he's making mistakes, missing assignments, and contributing to the losses -- I don't see how his leadership resonates with young guys, especially when he's making 10X money.

Now of course I don't know he's making those mistakes. If the new staff feels it was all the fruit of Bettcher's staff, that's another story.

But then he's not just here to mentor, he's here to be a good player. That's what I would prefer.



Thatís certainly a fair take


Cut cut cut, lets just cut everyone because we're so mad...

From a fans perspective Ogletree appears to be overvalued because we only see his play, but everything I've read about him being a key motivator with a young defense (Rams) and his ability to read a defense is the intangible quality we dont see/value.

I say let the new coaching staff evaluate, if he's still here I firmly believe it will be because his play is a product of system/young secondary.
...  
christian : 2/6/2020 10:26 am : link
Rory, that's quite a weird interpretation to take from that exchange.

No one is remotely saying cut anyone out of anger.

It's simple, if he's a good player, and this staff believes so, he'll be kept and presumably play better. That would be awesome.

If he's not a good player and his value is simply mentorship, paying him the 5th highest cap hit in the league at his position in 2020 isn't wise.
I will be pretty surprised if the Giants cut Oggletree  
AdamBrag : 2/6/2020 10:33 am : link
Gettleman is pretty big on culture and I think he views Oggletree as a team leader. Also, our depth at LB is bad.

I think the most likely scenario is restructuring his contract and freeing up $3-4 million in cap space instead of freeing up $8 million in cap space.
RE: The Cuts Should Be...  
Rjanyg : 2/6/2020 10:45 am : link
In comment 14804650 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
Ogletree, Ellison, Bethea and Martin.

No replacement for Solder, so he stays.

If Tate had played all 16 games he was on track for 70+ catches and nearly 1,000 yards. He stays too.

Pulley should stay at least through camp, until the Giants see what they have at C.


Yup.

The big thing with Ogletree is he really isn't a physical player and he has horrible form when tackling. I hear people complain about he prospect of drafting Simmons but the kid is way more physical and can actually tackle.
RE: One more year for Solder  
BillKo : 2/6/2020 11:10 am : link
In comment 14804594 JonC said:
Quote:
because we have no backup plan at LT, and I do think he'll rebound after a rough year.


But isn't it TWO rough years? I mean...he's been a huge dissapointment.

And I was all for signing him - and keeping him for the reason you state.

But he's been awful for 2 years.


















I'm betting  
George : 2/6/2020 11:56 am : link
our Center for 2020 is not yet on the roster.
Keep Tate, maybe Solder depending  
Sneakers O'toole : 2/6/2020 12:00 pm : link
on what OLine moves come this offseason. Tate is a keeper.
remove emotion from the equation and...  
Torrag : 2/6/2020 12:10 pm : link
Tate and Solder get one more year.
RE: I will be pretty surprised if the Giants cut Oggletree  
christian : 2/6/2020 12:46 pm : link
In comment 14804772 AdamBrag said:
Quote:
Gettleman is pretty big on culture and I think he views Oggletree as a team leader. Also, our depth at LB is bad.

I think the most likely scenario is restructuring his contract and freeing up $3-4 million in cap space instead of freeing up $8 million in cap space.


I fully get Reese/Coughlin/McAdoo put together quite a collection of bozos who needed to be removed. I'm glad they are all gone.

Fast-forward to now -- why can't the Giants have mentors and good guy vets at or near the vet minimum?

Not being a bozo should be a prerequisite to being on the team, and with that given contracts should be reflective of the projected ability to contribute on the field.

If the player's primary contribution is mentorship on and off the field stuff, minimum money is the right price.

RE: Iíd keep Ogletree.  
Joey in VA : 2/6/2020 12:51 pm : link
In comment 14804598 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
.
What in the hell for? He's not a good player and he's not anything but old and overpaid.
my guess: they keep Solder, Tate and Pulley  
Del Shofner : 2/6/2020 12:58 pm : link
and cut the other four.
Man I was  
MtDizzle : 2/6/2020 3:00 pm : link
so excited when we got Ogletree, I admit I was dead wrong. Last year he looked like a deer in headlights out there a majority of the time. Get rid of him!!!
Bill  
JonC : 2/6/2020 3:09 pm : link
The big thing with Solder is the difficulty we likely face in 1) replacing him and 2) we really don't have a RT either. Two big holes with no solutions.

Will, I'm not a Tate fan, too much mercurial and it's all about me from him.
I wonder why you think Solders distraction issue is behind him  
Bob in Newburgh : 2/6/2020 3:24 pm : link
I really can't believe his head will now be in the game.

I believe he will be even more out out of it, waiting for test results, etc.

Disclaimer: I sympathise, but this discussion is from management perspective, and their is no provision foe familial health issues.
...  
christian : 2/6/2020 3:53 pm : link
I'd love for Solder to bounce back, but that's not a 19.5M bet to take, not at his age and mileage.

Open market Solder isn't getting 19.5 over 2 years. The Giants have to get that figured way down for him to stay.
Big Blue Banter guys..  
Racer : 2/6/2020 3:53 pm : link
...had most of these earlier in the week.
RE: One more year for Solder  
Racer : 2/6/2020 4:00 pm : link
In comment 14804594 JonC said:
Quote:
because we have no backup plan at LT, and I do think he'll rebound after a rough year.

Cut the rest, including Tate.


I'm usually 100pct with you on your posts , but I'm with Sy here in terms of keeping him. Specifically for me, until there's a known quantity who DJ can rely on running the right route, catching it when it's in the area and is consistent with body language and all that 'on the same page with the QB' detail, I'm currently very hesitant to enter 2020 assuming he can be replaced before the 53 is final.
IF there's a replacement in FA  
fkap : 2/6/2020 6:26 pm : link
for Tate, I'd do it. Didn't see much from him that made me say, wow, I'm so glad Tate's on the team.

Solder depends on whether he was injured/distracted and will recover. Keeping a shitty player just because we have no one else is not good reasoning. Hopefully, adding a real center will have a ripple effect on the line and Solder can do a little more than he has. Plus, there's a new coach to maybe inspire the line. But, if he's cooked, it doesn't matter if we have no one else.

The rest can go.

And please, Mr Gettleman, no more trying to get one last year out of players at the end of their career.
While I agree  
BigBluesman : 2/6/2020 8:09 pm : link
that it does not make financial sense to cut Solder, I'm not as fussed about finding his replacement. Who could honestly do worse than he has?
RE: ...  
MotownGIANTS : 2/6/2020 9:49 pm : link
In comment 14805409 christian said:
Quote:
I'd love for Solder to bounce back, but that's not a 19.5M bet to take, not at his age and mileage.

Open market Solder isn't getting 19.5 over 2 years. The Giants have to get that figured way down for him to stay.


It is reported he is willing to take a paycut.
RE: The Cuts Should Be...  
Optimus-NY : 2/7/2020 4:49 am : link
In comment 14804650 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
Ogletree, Ellison, Bethea and Martin.

No replacement for Solder, so he stays.

If Tate had played all 16 games he was on track for 70+ catches and nearly 1,000 yards. He stays too.

Pulley should stay at least through camp, until the Giants see what they have at C.


+1,000,000
RE: Ogletree is a good example of  
Milton : 2/7/2020 7:15 am : link
In comment 14804606 JonC said:
Quote:
a well paid player who doesn't earn it on gameday, despite his positives.
And Solder isn't a good example?

Solder needs to take a paycut. I don't see how you pay a guy $13M to be a liability. And this whole thing about the dead cap hit is a red herring. The Giants have more than enough cap room in 2020. There is no need to kick the can down the road, they will be rolling over cap space into 2021 regardless.
RE: RE: Ogletree is a good example of  
Klaatu : 2/7/2020 7:57 am : link
In comment 14805729 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 14804606 JonC said:


Quote:


a well paid player who doesn't earn it on gameday, despite his positives.

And Solder isn't a good example?

Solder needs to take a paycut. I don't see how you pay a guy $13M to be a liability. And this whole thing about the dead cap hit is a red herring. The Giants have more than enough cap room in 2020. There is no need to kick the can down the road, they will be rolling over cap space into 2021 regardless.


Ogletree is easily replaced. Solder, well, maybe. It depends on who the Giants are able to sign in free agency, and who they draft. As bad as he's been for the past two years, Solder may still end up being their best option at one of the OT spots, as sad as that sounds.
RE: RE: Ogletree is a good example of  
JonC : 2/7/2020 1:44 pm : link
In comment 14805729 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 14804606 JonC said:


Quote:


a well paid player who doesn't earn it on gameday, despite his positives.

And Solder isn't a good example?

Solder needs to take a paycut. I don't see how you pay a guy $13M to be a liability. And this whole thing about the dead cap hit is a red herring. The Giants have more than enough cap room in 2020. There is no need to kick the can down the road, they will be rolling over cap space into 2021 regardless.


I have no problem cutting (or pay-cutting) Solder if they have his replacement on board. Currently, they don't and it's not a snap to find one or rely on a rookie.
RE: RE: RE: Ogletree is a good example of  
Milton : 2/7/2020 1:57 pm : link
In comment 14806145 JonC said:
Quote:
I have no problem cutting (or pay-cutting) Solder if they have his replacement on board. Currently, they don't and it's not a snap to find one or rely on a rookie.
They can always re-sign Solder. It's not like somebody else is gonna pay him $13M in 2020.

p.s.--I'm not a scout and don't have a strong opinion on Solder but the media and fan consensus seems to be that he was a liability in 2019. Do you agree with the consensus? My biggest issue is with those who think the dead cap hit should play a role in the decision. That money is gone and isn't coming back.
He definitely put out a number of poor performances  
JonC : 2/7/2020 2:01 pm : link
and a few good ones, much like the unit as a whole. It was a bad year, but I think Solder and the others have a rebound in them.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Ogletree is a good example of  
Klaatu : 2/7/2020 2:32 pm : link
In comment 14806160 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 14806145 JonC said:


Quote:


I have no problem cutting (or pay-cutting) Solder if they have his replacement on board. Currently, they don't and it's not a snap to find one or rely on a rookie.

They can always re-sign Solder. It's not like somebody else is gonna pay him $13M in 2020.


No, but he could sign with someone else for considerably less before we had a chance to re-sign him.
Keep Soldier to project Jones  
KWALL2 : 2/7/2020 2:32 pm : link
Cut the rest especially Tate. Waste of space. Get a young player in there to get the PT. Great draft for WRs. Or bring in Sammy Watkins who could be a great value. He still has plenty left.
when I say the others  
JonC : 2/7/2020 2:33 pm : link
I mean Zeitler and Hernandez along with Solder. We must upgrade RT and preferably C.
RE: Keep Soldier to project Jones  
BigBluesman : 2/7/2020 6:04 pm : link
In comment 14806188 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
Cut the rest especially Tate. Waste of space. Get a young player in there to get the PT. Great draft for WRs. Or bring in Sammy Watkins who could be a great value. He still has plenty left.

Why keep Solder to protect Jones when the problem is HE CAN'T BLOCK?
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