I realize the dead money would be huge if they cut him. And he's certainly a quality human.
But we're talking about possibly the worst starting left tackle in the league in 2019. He turns 33 in April.
Should they just cut their losses and cut him? I think so.
Start fresh....sign Jack Conklin, Alex Karras in the offseason. Draft a left tackle in April. Thoughts?
A GM worth his salt can't cut his LT before he's got a replacement, and he can't wait until the draft to TRY and get his LT. You're basically doubling down on the weak hand.
sorry....I meant Ted Karras.
A GM worth his salt can't cut his LT before he's got a replacement, and he can't wait until the draft to TRY and get his LT. You're basically doubling down on the weak hand.
I realize this. But Solder would have to be moved to RT. I think its pretty clear he can't play LT.
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Conklin is a RT.
A GM worth his salt can't cut his LT before he's got a replacement, and he can't wait until the draft to TRY and get his LT. You're basically doubling down on the weak hand.
I realize this. But Solder would have to be moved to RT. I think its pretty clear he can't play LT.
only other idea would by to try to trade a mid to late round pick to another team that has a really good backup LT. Don't give up too much for him...but a serviceable LT than can compete with the high draft pick.
Beside, with the NE connection with the coaches and the hugh cap hit...
He gets another year
1. Is it because he is a poor locker room guy? No.
2. Is it because he cannot play anymore? Maybe but then you need to have a replacement which we do not have and this can blend with #3.
3. Can we find his replacement for the salary cap savings? This is a hard one to anwer.
4. Is there a benefit of cutting him now as opposed to later in the year or next year?
5. Does he have trade value? I think the answer to this is yes. I don't think it is much but there were rumors last year that teams were interested in him and OL are at a premium.
6. Is he willing to take a pay cut? He said he is so this is the most logical solution. He takes a pay cut and earns his spot. If he doesn't then he may have even more value in a trade. We'll eat the dead money and the new team only has to worry about his base salary and any bonuses not currently paid.
We now have a Garrett/Columbo combo that has proven solid for OL
Solder was terrible under a regime that seemed to get the worst out of everyone
Given the investment in him. The Giants need to see if he can turn it around under a new staff thats better suited for him
This is what I hope happens in April. Giants trade down with SD in round 1 acquiring another 2nd. They then take and OT Jedrick Wills at 6 and OT Matt Peart in round 4.
LT Wills/Solder
LG Hernandez
C Karras/Wisniewski
RG Zeitler/Gates
RT Williams/Peart
Solder might also bounce back. We have absolutely no idea if his personal situation with his son is under control, or maybe he begins the season with a new regiment and different way to handle football and personal life. We also had every single member of the line regress in 2019 so I'm putting a lot of that on the coaches as well.
I'm guessing there will be a higher comfort level with Judge and better coaching all around. No reason to go into the season with yet another hole to fill.
Solder's young son underwent cancer treatment during the season and had a real negative effect on Nate. His head did not seem to be in the game and he didn't play like he has for the last decade. His son's cancer is presumably in remission now which should allow him to refocus and get his head back in the game. Coupled with JJ's faith in him and Garrett, Columbo, and Wilkerson working with him, we should see a big step in the right direction with Solder this coming season.
for a minimal cap savings this season when we are flush with cash?
there should be like a 10 minute cooling off period when you start a thread.
that keeps asking you to read what are posting and does this make sense
A few factors to consider:
- After spending his career under arguably the best HC of all time and a great OL coach, is it more likely Solder forget how to play fundamentally sound football, or in year 8 & 9 of his career he was starting to break down?
- In year 10 of his NFL career are his health, body, and skill likely to rebound after 2 down years?
- In his 10th or 11th year of his NFL career is he likely to move to a new position he's never played professionally and succeed?
- Is it more likely he has a renaissance or more likely he's at the end of his career?
for a minimal cap savings this season when we are flush with cash?
there should be like a 10 minute cooling off period when you start a thread.
that keeps asking you to read what are posting and does this make sense
There aren't any other than a fan getting a pound of flesh. The $6.5m savings isn't enough to bring in even a mid-tier FA Tackle let alone a top tier FA. And of the top tier guys one is a RT anyway.
Too many unknowns at this point in time. Things will look a lot different post draft but by then Free Agency likely has sorted out all of the big names and you are left with the scrap heap or the vets waiting for an injury to sign - not a good strategy to rely on.
That said, if he cut Solder today... then I would be with the others who thinks he should be fired.
It is not easy to find a starting offensive lineman in this league. You do NOT cut until you have effectively replaced.
All of us also unanimously agreed that the coaching here has been horrible. We have a new OL coach who has been successful elsewhere. We need to see what this guy can do with Solder and the others.
This also does not mean DG stops trying to find a replacement.
I think the two options are (1) keep him this year and cut him next year (2) restructure his contract, pay him less this year, but guarantee more next year.
It's not ideal, but I think (1) is the best option. Again, we don't need all the cap space we have this year and even if we can lower his cap hit to $13m-$15m a year for two years, that doesn't seem great given his play.
The classic do 9 things right and no one notices, but do 1 wrong and everyone notices.
The criticism is warranty only because of the contract. He's a top 2/3 OT being paid as the best in the league. But that is sunk cost now, you don't throw away a 2/3rd OT for nothing.
Who didn't have a down season last year on offense? After watching the 49ers running game...the traps, pulls, etc...and how that effected the play I'm convinced we simply had poor coaching.
I would be hesitant to cut anyone at this point without a better player to take their place. I believe that these coaches will get this team much improved fundamentally with better schemes by week 4ish. It won't happen overnight but Solder, Zietler, Hernandez and Barkley will benefit from Garrett and Kitchens and Colombo. You can't tell me they didn't become worse statistically because of talent alone...they were set up to fail.
The classic do 9 things right and no one notices, but do 1 wrong and everyone notices.
The criticism is warranty only because of the contract. He's a top 2/3 OT being paid as the best in the league. But that is sunk cost now, you don't throw away a 2/3rd OT for nothing.
Zeitler has just as many whiff's and no one is calling for him to be cut.
And that said replacement will be an upgrade - major major if, especially with our track record both in FA and the draft.
I realize this. But Solder would have to be moved to RT. I think its pretty clear he can't play LT.
Huh? You were talking about cutting him.
He isn't going anywhere this year. He didn't play well, but he also has a very sick child. I think we all should have a little empathy for his situation.
Solder's young son underwent cancer treatment during the season and had a real negative effect on Nate. His head did not seem to be in the game and he didn't play like he has for the last decade. His son's cancer is presumably in remission now which should allow him to refocus and get his head back in the game. Coupled with JJ's faith in him and Garrett, Columbo, and Wilkerson working with him, we should see a big step in the right direction with Solder this coming season.
I'm not for cutting Solder, because there is no option right now. But lets be serious. There are three factors that determine how well a player performs in the NFL.
1. Talent
2. Scheme
3. Coaching.
Solder had talent, but has he lost the physical abilities needed for the position? Has he been playing in a scheme that requires different talents than he was in while with the Pats? And coaching. We can assume that in a career that has spanned more than a decade that he has been "coached up", a term that is highly overrated. If a player has lost his physical skills, or is in the wrong scheme, coaching won't make much of a difference, if any.
The only real question here is - was his performance in 2019 (and 2018) affected by injuries and/or his son's condition?
No, it really wasn't. He was awful.
He's still better than Solder.
SUPPOSE to protect Jones ..... IJS
When it comes to Solder the only consideration should be the dollar amount you put on his value to the team in 2020 (compared to the dollar value applied to anticipated OT free agents). If they think he has something left in the tank and won't be a liability, they should ask him to take an appropriate pay cut. If he declines, they should cut him, but tell him to keep in touch if he's unable to recoup that $13M on the open market. They can always re-sign him. Because as I've said repeatedly, the dead cap hit is money already spent and nothing is bringing it back. With $70-80M projected cap room, there is absolutely no reason to kick the dead money down the road.
SMITHERS: Um, sir... I'm afraid all of those players have retired and, uh... passed on. In fact, your right-fielder has been dead for a hundred and thirty years.
How savvy is Gettleman? It requires a confrontation I'm not sure he is willing to have.
Judge and the new staff will likely give him a chance to rebound. The cap savings question isn’t a great argument either, we’ll have a lot of cap space without cutting him anyway, and there aren’t any blue chip LTs in free agency worth overpaying for.
I realize a lot of you guys muster up an unhealthy hatred of guys who underperform, but that doesn’t make doing mental gymnastics to justify a shortsighted move a worthwhile exercise.
Sign a tackle in free agency, and draft one who can hopefully project as future LT. Then by all means cut Solder next year.
How savvy is Gettleman? It requires a confrontation I'm not sure he is willing to have.
Come on now...if Gettleman has proven anything in his career, it’s that he’s willing to confront and make harsh decisions with underperforming vets.
I don’t know if forcing him into a pay cut is an option (would be nice)...I just don’t want to see them push any more dead cap space out further on his deal with another restructure
What if Solder puts in another equivalent year? The Giants will be in an equally unsure position in a year, with the option to again grossly overpay Solder.
Just a few not far-fetched, and in my view less risky options.
- Dennis Kelly, swing tackle, who has played really well subbing at RT & LT when the Titans big name tackles have been injured
- Cameron Flemming, swing tackle, who has played both sides and subbed well and has strongly been rumored as a cap casualty in Dal
Both players are competent, if not exciting options to bridge LT at a much lower cost than 27M overt the next 2 years.
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The $6.5m savings isn't enough to bring in even a mid-tier FA Tackle let alone a top tier FA.
They save $13M by cutting him before his $3M roster bonus is due on March 18th.
This isn't correct. $13M is his dead cap number, independent of his roster bonus. His dead money escalates to $16M upon execution of his roster bonus on 3/18.
He's still carrying $8M for amortized signing bonus, plus an additional $5M from last year's restructure. That's the $13M, and it's unavoidable. The roster bonuses are $3M this year and $4M next year. Those are on top of the $13M in dead money that would be incurred by releasing or trading Solder this offseason.
Next year, the dead money entering the offseason will be $6.5M with the $4M roster bonus looming on top of that. That 2021 roster bonus is the most likely trigger for a release, assuming his play does not improve drastically this season.
The OL as a whole did not function well. The push up the middle doesn't give the tackles the ability to ride guys out of the play because the QB can't step up. there is a lot more to it than he just didnt play well. the unit as a whole needs to be fixed, Hernandez hasnt played well either ad people opverrate his play based on his draft position.
Many of us don't know what to look for when evaluation OL. Columbo has a big job to do and I suspect Solder will be part of this team in 2020.
Actually, you can (and will) wait.
I don't know who's figures are 100% correct but I just don't see the upside in cutting him this year regardless. It would have to take Judge and Co thinking he's completely toast which I can't see them possibly knowing until camp - and then its too late to find his replacement unless its already on the roster (which could be the case).
Biggest problem with that solution - I don't think there's a blue chip OL in this year's draft.
I am actually worried that Solder is completely shot, partly for very understandable personal reasons (his child), and really can't play at a starting level any more.
I think he's here for next year - but the Giants better have a plan for replacing him next season.
To be fair to DG - Solder was the only bad contract.