Seems very high on Joe Judge, and also loves the Jason Garrett hire and what he means to Daniel Jones’ development. He also makes some good points on the Giants upcoming free agency, how they need to focus on keeping the team young and building not only for next year, but for the next 4-5 years. He thinks signing guys coming off their first contracts (25-27 year olds) is what Gettlemen and Co should be looking at.
It’s a great listen if you have some time.
Link - (
New Window )
Don't always agree with his NYG takes, but the stories he tells about his coaching, scouting, front-office and even youth football leadership give some incredible insight.
Kirwin is the best. I basically treat his overall takes on everything as gospel.
Another guy that comes to mind is Blake Martinez, who is only 26. Especially is they release Ogletree. I’d also like the Giants to take a look at Connor McGovern, the center from Denver. Young player who really came into his own last season in Denver. He’s only 26 too.
Normally that’s the case, but this upcoming FA class has quite a bit of high quality players that could be available and are only 25-26 years old:
25 year olds - Ngakoue, Austin Hooper, Hunter Henry, Justin Simmons
26 year olds - Corey Littleton, Blake Martinez, Arik Armstead, Jameis Winston, Derek Henry, Dante Fowler, Connor McGovern, DJ Humphries, Leonard Williams
Granted if these guys end up hitting the market next month and don’t get re-signed/tagged before then.
go OL OL OL in draft is possible
OR
judon and conklin
and go OL and ILB in draft
C/OG Ted Karras is 26 (27 in March). He's number two.
FS Anthony Harris is 28 (29 in October). He's number three.
I'm not as high on Jack Conklin as are a lot of posters (and I'm the guy who started a thread with "Give Me Jack Conklin or Give Me Death!" prior to the 2016 draft). However, if the Giants feel he's worth the risk and they can swing a deal for him, so be it. It's not like they don't need an RT.
Good question. I don't see the Giants making a move for a free agent TE. They've got bigger fish to fry. You never know, though, but I'd still say the odds were against it.
As for the draft, I'd say there was a good possibility if they were able to swing a trade for Engram, but if not, and already short one day two pick thanks to the Williams trade, maybe they take a late-round flyer on someone, maybe sign a UDFA or maybe they pin their hopes on the UDFA's they already have, Dickerson and Conrad, along with Engram and Smith. Maybe Kitchens can do something with them.
As for LB the guy from Cleveland Joe Schobert (spelling?) is the type I would like to the team add in free agency.
Conklin turns 26 in August.
As for LB the guy from Cleveland Joe Schobert (spelling?) is the type I would like to the team add in free agency.
Spotrac.com estimates Hooper's value at $9.9 million per year/5 yrs, $49,923,499. That's a lot to invest for a team that has a lot of holes to fill, and that's probably just a starting point.
At ILB, I prefer Kwiatkoski over Schobert.
Usually players come into the NFL at the age of 23. After three years, they are a restricted free agent, and four an unrestricted free agent (unless they were a 1st round pick with an option that was picked up).
That's why so many UFA's are 27.
Although not on the roster, CJ Conrad is still under contract. He was a good blocker at Kentucky. Maybe Kitchens can develop him.
If the Giants look at TE in FA (not saying they will, but it might be an alternative to trying to identify multiple WR), don't sleep on Hunter Henry.
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in free agency or draft? Assume Ellison is gone and Engram and Smith remain. Did Smith show himself at all as a blocker?
If the Giants look at TE in FA (not saying they will, but it might be an alternative to trying to identify multiple WR), don't sleep on Hunter Henry.
Hunter Henry makes Evan Engram look like Ol' Reliable. When he's healthy, he's one of the best two-way TE's in the league. The problem is that he's hardly ever healthy for long.
Usually players come into the NFL at the age of 23. After three years, they are a restricted free agent, and four an unrestricted free agent (unless they were a 1st round pick with an option that was picked up).
That's why so many UFA's are 27.
It's not unusual in the new CBA. Since CFB juniors started declaring en masse, and redshirt years in college have become rare (bordering on non-existent) among top players, there is a much larger group than their used to be who enters the draft just 3 years post HS graduation, at age 20-21, and then enters FA at 24/25/26. Some get picked high but many become late round picks or UDFA's who don't even have the 5th year option. Saquon, Flowers, Landon Collins, OBJ, Eli Apple, and Dexter Lawrence all fit that profile.
This is the case for many of the top prospects we are talking about right now in the draft. Andrew Thomas just turned 21 last month. So if he doesn't get extended early he'll either be 24 or 25 when he is entering FA. Chase Young turns 21 the month of the draft so he's in the same boat. Same with Okudah, Wills, Jerry Jeudy, etc.
And it's not just first round prospects - there will literally be dozens of juniors who declared for the draft who won't even be drafted. But for the few who slip through the cracks and turn into good players, they are only 4 years away from a pay day at age 25. RJ Mcintosh is an example of a later pick who was a junior entry who is still only 23 years old right now and just 2 years from FA.
Ngakoue 24
Henry 25
Vonn Bell 25
Hooper 25
Kendall Fuller 25
Conklin 25
Littleton 26
Schobert 26
Kamalei Correa 26
Mackensie Alexander 26
Sean Davis 26
Justin Simmons 26
A lot of that list are DB's and there are a couple young pass rushers - which were positions he also specifically called out. If they can add 2-3 guys from that list plus a few other under the radar types it will go a long way to improving the roster.
My point was a minor one but I'm surprised Kirwan harped on 25 year old. It's not the norm to get a 25-year old UFA. That's just a fact.
That's just not true.
There have been 100+ early entries in each of the last 3 drafts, which I believe each broke the previous record highs at the time, and there are there are 99 early entries this year. Simple math that "many" of them aren't going in the first round, and of those that do only a select number get the 5th year option.
Remember UDFA Travis Rudolph? He was a 3 and out junior entry and 1 of 20 early entries that went undrafted in 2017. 36 junior entries went undrafted in 2018 including our very own Nick Gates. In both years almost as many junior entries got picked in the first round as they did in the 2nd and day 3.
Some of the best juniors are certainly high picks who end up with the 5th year option, but they are not the majority. The NFL has been flooded by a crop of younger players (many who have made bad decisions btw) since the new CBA has de-emphasized the financial benefit of getting selected in round 1. But whatever % end up panning out (10%? 20%?) end up creating a sizable chunk UFA market between age 25-27.
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In comment 14806554 LBH15 said:
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in free agency or draft? Assume Ellison is gone and Engram and Smith remain. Did Smith show himself at all as a blocker?
If the Giants look at TE in FA (not saying they will, but it might be an alternative to trying to identify multiple WR), don't sleep on Hunter Henry.
Hunter Henry makes Evan Engram look like Ol' Reliable. When he's healthy, he's one of the best two-way TE's in the league. The problem is that he's hardly ever healthy for long.
You got that one backwards.
Engram has played 15, 11 and 8 games over the past 3 years.
Over that span, Hunter Henry has played 15, 14 and 12.
Add in that Henry is actually a reliable blocker and its no contest.
My point was a minor one but I'm surprised Kirwan harped on 25 year old. It's not the norm to get a 25-year old UFA. That's just a fact.
you are changing the discussion, Kirwan said that's who he would target and you said:
I'm not trying to play gotcha but that statement was wrong and what a lot of the posts on this thread have pointed out is that Kirwan's suggestion isn't unreasonable because the FA market has gotten younger due to the new CBA. Olivier Vernon was actually 1 of the first examples of that when he was signed as a UFA at...age 25...as a 3rd rd pick junior entry...off a 4 year rookie deal.
As I wrote, when he's healthy he's one of the best two-way TE's in the league. Excellent receiver, excellent blocker. But he's probably going to cost close to what Hooper is, according to Spotrac.com., and if you sign him you're taking just as much risk, if not more, than you are with Evan Engram.
I've been running this site for 26 years. Other than RFA's, the "young" UFAs are almost always 27 (26 if they are fortunate).
Very difficult to deal with 3 rookie starting o-linemen at the same time.
Additionally, rookie Cs do not typically have good 1st years, even when they go on to have fine careers.
Very difficult to deal with 3 rookie starting o-linemen at the same time.
Additionally, rookie Cs do not typically have good 1st years, even when they go on to have fine careers.
I'd be shocked if he didn't re-sign with Denver. He's expressed publicly his desire to stay with the team, which may be just "free agent speak," but he's also said glowing things about his head coach, position coach, and his young QB.
I've been running this site for 26 years. Other than RFA's, the "young" UFAs are almost always 27 (26 if they are fortunate).
Your original comment was that players "are not ending their first contract at age 25" and that is wrong, it is as simple as that. I don't understand what's so hard to admit about it being inaccurate and just moving on.
And if you want to pull the "26 years card" that's fine - I'd encourage you to count up how many of those years intersected with free agents whose first contracts were part of the new CBA and check your 2016 records when the Giants signed Vernon, who was 25 for the majority of his first year here.
And I'm not cherry picking some 1 time fluke, just last year we let Landon Collins go to play every game of his first year for Washington as a 25 year old. Since the new CBA it's relatively common for guys to hit FA at age 25 - and as evidenced by both of those examples they aren't always first rounders.
Giants Agree to Terms with Olivier Vernon - ( New Window )
You have to be an underclassman who wasn't drafted in the 1st round who hits the open market.
It is much, much, much more common to be 27 (or about to turn 27) when you hit the open market. It just is. I do the write-ups on these guys when we sign them.
just did a rough count of PFF's top 50 FA 9 are age 25 (or younger). 11 more are 26.
pff FA rankings - ( New Window )
So did I when I thought he’d really transform our O..I was wrong.