Some of you display the same "BPA Uber Alles" attitude towards the 1st Round, without regard for positional value, that led to giving short shrift to the O-Line in the 2011 and 2012 drafts, which led to actually forcing an O-Line pick in 2013. This was repeated in 2014 (although not as egregiously), but again it led to forcing an O-Line pick in 2015.
2016, and once again the O-Line was ignored in favor of a CB, and in 2017 it was for a TE. In 2018, it was for an RB, with the excuse, I suppose that we'd already made Nate Solder the highest-paid OT in the league. In 2019, after securing a QB, it was for a DT and another CB (which we traded up to get).
All the while we watched as our O-Line went from being one of the best in the league to one of the worst. The Giants wasted the last half of Eli Manning's career by failing to properly address the most obvious of their problems.
And now some of you want to pick up for Daniel Jones where we left off with Eli in the name of BPA, as well as "We can always draft O-Linemen later on." I just don't get that.
In my view, nothing is more important than rebuilding our O-Line, and every premium resource we have should be used to do that. Not even improving our woeful pass-rush is as important, and certainly not an upgrade to our under-performing secondary, or drafting another skill player.
but I can see grabbing Okudah at 4 still (particularly if Love is looked at as our next FS) at waiting until the top.of the second to grab an OT. Particularly if they think the "second tier" of OTs (Austin Jackson, etc) have about the same upside in year two that the top guys have. Because they're likely not dumping Solder yet, and two of the top 4 OTs (Will's and Wirfs) are actually right side OTs, and moving them to the left side I imagine carries some additional risk.
Plus maybe just maybe a stud OT like Conklin gets signed by DG as an FA?
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't complain in the least if DG drafts an OT in 1 and an OC in 2, and signs an FA like Ngakoue for pass rushing.
There is more than one way to skin a cat. But your point that OL was put on the back burner far too long is well made IMO, and I have bitched about it for years.
Marty, that's precisely the type of thinking that led us... Â
If the D is not addressed at its weakest point - the secondary - then it really doesn't matter what is done on the O
Management has plenty of FA $ to spend this year
There are plenty of quality OL in this coming draft
I could see management procuring either an OT or a C in FA and then spend a second-round choice on whatever OL they did not procure in FA
Such an approach frees up management to obtain maximum flexibility with their first-rounder
Such an open and flexible approach to the draft would likely maximize our return in lieu of just blindly raging that we need to invest our highest draft choices on OL
From the drafting of Chris Snee in 2004 until the drafting Â
of Justin Pugh at 19 (out of desperation to some extent) in 2013 the Giants under Jerry Reese drafted only ONE OL in the first three rounds (or with a top 100 pick), Will Beatty at 60 at the bottom of the second round.
That's eight strait years, 25 top 100 draft selections, with only ONE OL selected among premium (top 100) picks. And ZERO OL selected among 13 top 50 picks the Giants made over 8 years. Yet 5 of a team's 24 "starters" (counting 3 WR and 5 DBs as starters) are OL.
That's way there was no pipeline of OL as O'Hara, Snee and crew deteriorated. It was a clear mis-allocation of draft resources.
It doesn't need to be strengthened. It's strong enough as it is.
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If the D is not addressed at its weakest point - the secondary - then it really doesn't matter what is done on the O
I'd argue that the weakest aspect of the defense is the pass-rush. As for the secondary, along with the linebackers, it's one unit that should benefit the most from a new scheme and better coaching. You can't say the same with the offensive line, where we don't even have a Center or a Right Tackle, and our Left Tackle is arguably the worst in the league..
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Management has plenty of FA $ to spend this year
They do. And I've argued that they should try and sign an ILB like Nick Kwiatkosi and a FS like Anthony Harris to strengthen our defense (assuming that Ogletree and Bethea are cut). Others have argued for an Edge Rusher like Ngakoue. Some have even argued for a CB (there are plenty to choose from)
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There are plenty of quality OL in this coming draft
There are, but there are no guarantees that we'll get any of our top choices except with the #4 pick, and thanks to the Williams trade, we're already short one premium pick.
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I could see management procuring either an OT or a C in FA and then spend a second-round choice on whatever OL they did not procure in FA
Such an approach frees up management to obtain maximum flexibility with their first-rounder
That's assuming they're able to sign a free agent they covet. They weren't able to in 2013, which led to them reaching for Pugh. I've argued that they should try and sign C/OG Ted Karras from New England. Other's have pushed for OT Jack Conklin. But you can't guarantee that the Giants will be able to sign any free agent O-linemean of note. We're not the only team with a lot of cap space.
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Such an open and flexible approach to the draft would likely maximize our return in lieu of just blindly raging that we need to invest our highest draft choices on OL
I'm not "blindly raging." I'm pointing out how the mistakes of the past should not be repeated, with nine years of history to back me up. I'm also pointing out the importance of factoring in positional value along with BPA when it comes to draft picks, particularly 1st round draft picks.
Finally, I don't want to find the Giants in the same boat next year, hoping to maybe, possibly, solve their O-Line problems in free agency and the draft, after another season of watching Daniel Jones under constant duress, and watching Saquon Barkley repeatedly stuffed behind the line of scrimmage.
It just makes no sense to me to be pushing for a specific thrust in the draft when free agency has not even begun.
JInts have a whole new coaching staff to influence DG with regard to how holes in our team needs to be addressed.
Lets see who they come up with in FA and then start arguing about the draft
Should the Jints get so lucky as to procure Byron Jones cb from the Cows perhaps via Jason Garrett's influence then I won't be pushing for Okudah in the draft
Should they capture the Jag ER then the pass rush won't be such a dire need
Jints could also get lucky in obtaining some quality OL in FA. I prefer to take an optimistic view here. I prefer to remember gets like Kareem McKenzie, Bart Oates, O'Hara et al
A major factor here is we just don't know how the new coaching staff sizes up someone like Gates. Do they seem him as a potential starter and if so, at which position?
One thing we can agree on is our mutual respect for Nick Kwiatowski as a potential ILB get. Combine him with a healthy Connelly and our middle zones won't seem so porous
Take care of a couple of holes in FA and it completely changes the draft perspective. We have the money to do so and I am confident that will happen.
I would like to see the draft focus on speed and athleticism and smarts that overall can be putty for our coaching staff to mold long term.
That can only happen if management takes a smart approach to FA. I like that our coaching staff has some real NFL experience to bring a variety of perspectives to FA. It gives me real confidence.
Once a productive FA harvest is processed I think the draft approach will be clear.
No need to push for a particular draft approach now.
If the D is not addressed at its weakest point - the secondary - then it really doesn't matter what is done on the O
Management has plenty of FA $ to spend this year
There are plenty of quality OL in this coming draft
I could see management procuring either an OT or a C in FA and then spend a second-round choice on whatever OL they did not procure in FA
Such an approach frees up management to obtain maximum flexibility with their first-rounder
Such an open and flexible approach to the draft would likely maximize our return in lieu of just blindly raging that we need to invest our highest draft choices on OL
This philosophy is why the Giants OL has sucked for 10 years.
Linked below is a very good column from several years ago regarding Positional Value and the draft.
Good link.
Tier 5 - RBs, Gs, and DTs.
And so what do we do the last two years? Draft a RB in the first round, followed by a DT in the first round, and then we traded two draft picks for another DT...
Can you please send this link to Mara, Gettleman, Abrams, etc? ; )
as much as any other need on this team. At #4, your goal is to draft a guy you project as a perennial pro bowler.
I’ve been leaning Okudah for a while, assuming he’s there and DG doesn’t pull off a trade down
I disagree. The Giants have already invested a lot of draft capital in CB's at the expense of the O-Line (with the exception of Hernandez in 2018). And if you buy what this guy is selling, you're more likely to find your perennial pro-bowler in the 1st round at OT, not CB.
I don't see how anyone can look at the makeup of this team and not see how talent-deficient the O-Line is, and that fixing it must be the number one priority this offseason. Daniel Jones was the third-most pressured QB in the league last year. Barkley was hit repeatedly behind the LOS. You're wasting your two most valuable acquisitions by giving them a sub-standard O-Line to work with.
So shall we make a list of biggest needs and draft by position down the list?
It's not about the biggest need. That's the part you're not getting here. That line of thinking got us Flowers.
There may very well be more top OT talent than CB in the first round, but at 4 Okudah may very well be the bpa.
Instead of spewing negativity why don't you offer up your own plan?
I have on other threads. The Giants shouldn’t touch CB until 6/7 round or after the draft, if at all.
Conklin and one of Dupree/Yannick/Judon in FA. I like the Chicago LB as well.
Draft trade out of 4 and target ER LT and C. There’s plenty of ER options in round 1 as well as LT options. I’d go after Biadasz at Center.
Later in the draft I’d look for value at LB, TE, and WR. S would make sense late as well.
The Giants need to manipulate this off-season to fix the OL and pass rush. That’s the problem with the team. Not slot corners or LBs in coverage or other random ancillary pieces.
I would disagree with your diminished opinion regarding corner but that is me
Corner is critical imo with the way the game is played now.
60% or more of all non punting offensive plays are pass plays
With the increase in play action, mis direction and run pass options it is really difficult to mount a consistent pass rush particularly against mobile qb's.
That means the back seven needs to cover.
Jints pass defense was ranked #28
Their best corner Jackrabbit is no longer on the team.
I would spend FA $ on the best corner available Byron Jones. Barring that I would certainly give Okudah a long look in the draft.
I still think a balanced approach to spending wisely in FA to fill holes and then drafting for speed and athleticism is the way to go.
Now some may say that approach has not worked for the Jints.
I would say that approach has worked extremely well for the successful teams.
The difference is how wisely you pick your players in both FA and the draft.
It is my belief that the influx of wisemen from around the league to fill our coaching staff will have a positive impact on DG
I would disagree with your diminished opinion regarding corner but that is me
Corner is critical imo with the way the game is played now.
60% or more of all non punting offensive plays are pass plays
With the increase in play action, mis direction and run pass options it is really difficult to mount a consistent pass rush particularly against mobile qb's.
That means the back seven needs to cover.
Jints pass defense was ranked #28
Their best corner Jackrabbit is no longer on the team.
I would spend FA $ on the best corner available Byron Jones. Barring that I would certainly give Okudah a long look in the draft.
I still think a balanced approach to spending wisely in FA to fill holes and then drafting for speed and athleticism is the way to go.
Now some may say that approach has not worked for the Jints.
I would say that approach has worked extremely well for the successful teams.
The difference is how wisely you pick your players in both FA and the draft.
It is my belief that the influx of wisemen from around the league to fill our coaching staff will have a positive impact on DG
This philosophy doesn’t work. The model for this would be the 19 Pats and smashmouth football booted them from the playoffs. The niners and Chiefs weren’t littered w studs in their secondary. They do however play well in the trenches and rush the passer.
You’ve been pushing this model for years and it just doesn’t work.
The deficiencies along the OL and lack of a viable pass rush are the root cause of the problems with this team. Fix that and the team will win.
IS it possible that positional value a few years ago and current 2020 positional values (anticipating the game playing shifts we are seeing) are different?
Is it also possible that the overall "position" value for CB's is different for say slot corners and or island corners?
Taking away one X receiver with one island defender is kind of a more important key than "average"
I ask because so often "average" hides the importance of understanding it could be average composed of pygmies and Elephants
Lastly, "average" positional value is almost 45% different from a value from the top end of any spectrum as to also ofte " mask" useful insight
as much as any other need on this team. At #4, your goal is to draft a guy you project as a perennial pro bowler.
I’ve been leaning Okudah for a while, assuming he’s there and DG doesn’t pull off a trade down
I disagree. The Giants have already invested a lot of draft capital in CB's at the expense of the O-Line (with the exception of Hernandez in 2018). And if you buy what this guy is selling, you're more likely to find your perennial pro-bowler in the 1st round at OT, not CB.
I don't see how anyone can look at the makeup of this team and not see how talent-deficient the O-Line is, and that fixing it must be the number one priority this offseason. Daniel Jones was the third-most pressured QB in the league last year. Barkley was hit repeatedly behind the LOS. You're wasting your two most valuable acquisitions by giving them a sub-standard O-Line to work with.
So shall we make a list of biggest needs and draft by position down the list?
It's not about the biggest need. That's the part you're not getting here. That line of thinking got us Flowers.
No, it was the four previous years where the O-Line was given short shrift in the draft that got us Flowers, that prompted JR to reach for a day three talent on day one, and in the top ten no less. It's following your line of thinking from 2011 to 2014 that caused that mistake, not mine.
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There may very well be more top OT talent than CB in the first round, but at 4 Okudah may very well be the bpa.
And if you draft solely on BPA, without regard for positional value, you end up exactly where we are today, still struggling to fix an offensive line that's been horrific for almost ten years, because we've also followed your line of thinking in 2016, 2017, 2018, and 2019.
won their last SB because their secondary shut down the opposing passing offense
There is your model
Your obsessive opposition is duly noted just not well articulated
Bit keep trying
I like your posts much better when you are constructive and not negative
I’m not being negative. I just don’t see how you can stay on brand given the current state of the roster.
Plugging holes along the OL and ER in FA would be nice but realistically probably won’t happen. There won’t be many attractive FA’s at need spots. Maybe they get an ER or OT, maybe they get lucky and get both. It’s slim pickings from the anticipated pool of players and that may dwindle before FA even starts. Then there’s no guarantee the available guys will sign here even if the money is right.
The Giants could find themselves going into the draft needing a RT, C, and successor at LT. They could need two ERs.
CB has no place in the conversation this year, especially after everything they’ve invested in the secondary the last two years. If they’re deficient going into 20 so be it. If Okudah is the bpa then hopefully there’s a GM out there who shares your philosophy and will give up a bunch to select him.
IS it possible that positional value a few years ago and current 2020 positional values (anticipating the game playing shifts we are seeing) are different?
I don't think so, Bill. If we've seen any shift at all at the top of the draft, it's an elevation of OG's.
Passers, pass-protectors, and pass-rushers are still at a premium. I'd argue that WR's might be overvalued as a 1st round group, because "pass-catchers" can include TE's and RB's, too, but that's a separate issue.
Good pass-defenders are a fine thing to have. No one is suggesting that the CB position should be ignored or relegated solely to day three picks or UDFA's, least of all me. But I look at a pick like Okudah at #4 as a homeowner replacing all of his windows while the foundation of his house is crumbling beneath him.
Of course, we'll never know.
Exactly Jay. If they are going to go #4 for an OT, it’s because he is that good. I do not want any OT pick forces at #4.
2016, and once again the O-Line was ignored in favor of a CB, and in 2017 it was for a TE. In 2018, it was for an RB, with the excuse, I suppose that we'd already made Nate Solder the highest-paid OT in the league. In 2019, after securing a QB, it was for a DT and another CB (which we traded up to get).
All the while we watched as our O-Line went from being one of the best in the league to one of the worst. The Giants wasted the last half of Eli Manning's career by failing to properly address the most obvious of their problems.
And now some of you want to pick up for Daniel Jones where we left off with Eli in the name of BPA, as well as "We can always draft O-Linemen later on." I just don't get that.
In my view, nothing is more important than rebuilding our O-Line, and every premium resource we have should be used to do that. Not even improving our woeful pass-rush is as important, and certainly not an upgrade to our under-performing secondary, or drafting another skill player.
O-Line, early and often.
We lost Jackrabbit and he needs to be replaced.
Okudah could be a starting corner for the next 8-10 years
You just cannot have too many quality corners
Free agency and the second round will bring OL
Plus maybe just maybe a stud OT like Conklin gets signed by DG as an FA?
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't complain in the least if DG drafts an OT in 1 and an OC in 2, and signs an FA like Ngakoue for pass rushing.
There is more than one way to skin a cat. But your point that OL was put on the back burner far too long is well made IMO, and I have bitched about it for years.
If the D is not addressed at its weakest point - the secondary - then it really doesn't matter what is done on the O
Management has plenty of FA $ to spend this year
There are plenty of quality OL in this coming draft
I could see management procuring either an OT or a C in FA and then spend a second-round choice on whatever OL they did not procure in FA
Such an approach frees up management to obtain maximum flexibility with their first-rounder
Such an open and flexible approach to the draft would likely maximize our return in lieu of just blindly raging that we need to invest our highest draft choices on OL
That's eight strait years, 25 top 100 draft selections, with only ONE OL selected among premium (top 100) picks. And ZERO OL selected among 13 top 50 picks the Giants made over 8 years. Yet 5 of a team's 24 "starters" (counting 3 WR and 5 DBs as starters) are OL.
That's way there was no pipeline of OL as O'Hara, Snee and crew deteriorated. It was a clear mis-allocation of draft resources.
It doesn't need to be strengthened. It's strong enough as it is.
I'd argue that the weakest aspect of the defense is the pass-rush. As for the secondary, along with the linebackers, it's one unit that should benefit the most from a new scheme and better coaching. You can't say the same with the offensive line, where we don't even have a Center or a Right Tackle, and our Left Tackle is arguably the worst in the league..
They do. And I've argued that they should try and sign an ILB like Nick Kwiatkosi and a FS like Anthony Harris to strengthen our defense (assuming that Ogletree and Bethea are cut). Others have argued for an Edge Rusher like Ngakoue. Some have even argued for a CB (there are plenty to choose from)
There are, but there are no guarantees that we'll get any of our top choices except with the #4 pick, and thanks to the Williams trade, we're already short one premium pick.
Such an approach frees up management to obtain maximum flexibility with their first-rounder
That's assuming they're able to sign a free agent they covet. They weren't able to in 2013, which led to them reaching for Pugh. I've argued that they should try and sign C/OG Ted Karras from New England. Other's have pushed for OT Jack Conklin. But you can't guarantee that the Giants will be able to sign any free agent O-linemean of note. We're not the only team with a lot of cap space.
I'm not "blindly raging." I'm pointing out how the mistakes of the past should not be repeated, with nine years of history to back me up. I'm also pointing out the importance of factoring in positional value along with BPA when it comes to draft picks, particularly 1st round draft picks.
Finally, I don't want to find the Giants in the same boat next year, hoping to maybe, possibly, solve their O-Line problems in free agency and the draft, after another season of watching Daniel Jones under constant duress, and watching Saquon Barkley repeatedly stuffed behind the line of scrimmage.
JInts have a whole new coaching staff to influence DG with regard to how holes in our team needs to be addressed.
Lets see who they come up with in FA and then start arguing about the draft
Should the Jints get so lucky as to procure Byron Jones cb from the Cows perhaps via Jason Garrett's influence then I won't be pushing for Okudah in the draft
Should they capture the Jag ER then the pass rush won't be such a dire need
Jints could also get lucky in obtaining some quality OL in FA. I prefer to take an optimistic view here. I prefer to remember gets like Kareem McKenzie, Bart Oates, O'Hara et al
A major factor here is we just don't know how the new coaching staff sizes up someone like Gates. Do they seem him as a potential starter and if so, at which position?
One thing we can agree on is our mutual respect for Nick Kwiatowski as a potential ILB get. Combine him with a healthy Connelly and our middle zones won't seem so porous
Take care of a couple of holes in FA and it completely changes the draft perspective. We have the money to do so and I am confident that will happen.
I would like to see the draft focus on speed and athleticism and smarts that overall can be putty for our coaching staff to mold long term.
That can only happen if management takes a smart approach to FA. I like that our coaching staff has some real NFL experience to bring a variety of perspectives to FA. It gives me real confidence.
Once a productive FA harvest is processed I think the draft approach will be clear.
No need to push for a particular draft approach now.
If the D is not addressed at its weakest point - the secondary - then it really doesn't matter what is done on the O
Management has plenty of FA $ to spend this year
There are plenty of quality OL in this coming draft
I could see management procuring either an OT or a C in FA and then spend a second-round choice on whatever OL they did not procure in FA
Such an approach frees up management to obtain maximum flexibility with their first-rounder
Such an open and flexible approach to the draft would likely maximize our return in lieu of just blindly raging that we need to invest our highest draft choices on OL
This philosophy is why the Giants OL has sucked for 10 years.
Instead of spewing negativity why don't you offer up your own plan?
Good link.
Tier 5 - RBs, Gs, and DTs.
And so what do we do the last two years? Draft a RB in the first round, followed by a DT in the first round, and then we traded two draft picks for another DT...
Can you please send this link to Mara, Gettleman, Abrams, etc? ; )
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as much as any other need on this team. At #4, your goal is to draft a guy you project as a perennial pro bowler.
I’ve been leaning Okudah for a while, assuming he’s there and DG doesn’t pull off a trade down
I disagree. The Giants have already invested a lot of draft capital in CB's at the expense of the O-Line (with the exception of Hernandez in 2018). And if you buy what this guy is selling, you're more likely to find your perennial pro-bowler in the 1st round at OT, not CB.
I don't see how anyone can look at the makeup of this team and not see how talent-deficient the O-Line is, and that fixing it must be the number one priority this offseason. Daniel Jones was the third-most pressured QB in the league last year. Barkley was hit repeatedly behind the LOS. You're wasting your two most valuable acquisitions by giving them a sub-standard O-Line to work with.
So shall we make a list of biggest needs and draft by position down the list?
It's not about the biggest need. That's the part you're not getting here. That line of thinking got us Flowers.
There may very well be more top OT talent than CB in the first round, but at 4 Okudah may very well be the bpa.
Instead of spewing negativity why don't you offer up your own plan?
I have on other threads. The Giants shouldn’t touch CB until 6/7 round or after the draft, if at all.
Conklin and one of Dupree/Yannick/Judon in FA. I like the Chicago LB as well.
Draft trade out of 4 and target ER LT and C. There’s plenty of ER options in round 1 as well as LT options. I’d go after Biadasz at Center.
Later in the draft I’d look for value at LB, TE, and WR. S would make sense late as well.
The Giants need to manipulate this off-season to fix the OL and pass rush. That’s the problem with the team. Not slot corners or LBs in coverage or other random ancillary pieces.
I would disagree with your diminished opinion regarding corner but that is me
Corner is critical imo with the way the game is played now.
60% or more of all non punting offensive plays are pass plays
With the increase in play action, mis direction and run pass options it is really difficult to mount a consistent pass rush particularly against mobile qb's.
That means the back seven needs to cover.
Jints pass defense was ranked #28
Their best corner Jackrabbit is no longer on the team.
I would spend FA $ on the best corner available Byron Jones. Barring that I would certainly give Okudah a long look in the draft.
I still think a balanced approach to spending wisely in FA to fill holes and then drafting for speed and athleticism is the way to go.
Now some may say that approach has not worked for the Jints.
I would say that approach has worked extremely well for the successful teams.
The difference is how wisely you pick your players in both FA and the draft.
It is my belief that the influx of wisemen from around the league to fill our coaching staff will have a positive impact on DG
I would disagree with your diminished opinion regarding corner but that is me
Corner is critical imo with the way the game is played now.
60% or more of all non punting offensive plays are pass plays
With the increase in play action, mis direction and run pass options it is really difficult to mount a consistent pass rush particularly against mobile qb's.
That means the back seven needs to cover.
Jints pass defense was ranked #28
Their best corner Jackrabbit is no longer on the team.
I would spend FA $ on the best corner available Byron Jones. Barring that I would certainly give Okudah a long look in the draft.
I still think a balanced approach to spending wisely in FA to fill holes and then drafting for speed and athleticism is the way to go.
Now some may say that approach has not worked for the Jints.
I would say that approach has worked extremely well for the successful teams.
The difference is how wisely you pick your players in both FA and the draft.
It is my belief that the influx of wisemen from around the league to fill our coaching staff will have a positive impact on DG
This philosophy doesn’t work. The model for this would be the 19 Pats and smashmouth football booted them from the playoffs. The niners and Chiefs weren’t littered w studs in their secondary. They do however play well in the trenches and rush the passer.
You’ve been pushing this model for years and it just doesn’t work.
The deficiencies along the OL and lack of a viable pass rush are the root cause of the problems with this team. Fix that and the team will win.
Is it also possible that the overall "position" value for CB's is different for say slot corners and or island corners?
Taking away one X receiver with one island defender is kind of a more important key than "average"
I ask because so often "average" hides the importance of understanding it could be average composed of pygmies and Elephants
Lastly, "average" positional value is almost 45% different from a value from the top end of any spectrum as to also ofte " mask" useful insight
Stuff to consider?
There is your model
Your obsessive opposition is duly noted just not well articulated
Bit keep trying
I like your posts much better when you are constructive and not negative
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In comment 14806529 mfsd said:
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as much as any other need on this team. At #4, your goal is to draft a guy you project as a perennial pro bowler.
I’ve been leaning Okudah for a while, assuming he’s there and DG doesn’t pull off a trade down
I disagree. The Giants have already invested a lot of draft capital in CB's at the expense of the O-Line (with the exception of Hernandez in 2018). And if you buy what this guy is selling, you're more likely to find your perennial pro-bowler in the 1st round at OT, not CB.
I don't see how anyone can look at the makeup of this team and not see how talent-deficient the O-Line is, and that fixing it must be the number one priority this offseason. Daniel Jones was the third-most pressured QB in the league last year. Barkley was hit repeatedly behind the LOS. You're wasting your two most valuable acquisitions by giving them a sub-standard O-Line to work with.
So shall we make a list of biggest needs and draft by position down the list?
It's not about the biggest need. That's the part you're not getting here. That line of thinking got us Flowers.
No, it was the four previous years where the O-Line was given short shrift in the draft that got us Flowers, that prompted JR to reach for a day three talent on day one, and in the top ten no less. It's following your line of thinking from 2011 to 2014 that caused that mistake, not mine.
And if you draft solely on BPA, without regard for positional value, you end up exactly where we are today, still struggling to fix an offensive line that's been horrific for almost ten years, because we've also followed your line of thinking in 2016, 2017, 2018, and 2019.
What has that gotten us?
There is your model
Your obsessive opposition is duly noted just not well articulated
Bit keep trying
I like your posts much better when you are constructive and not negative
I’m not being negative. I just don’t see how you can stay on brand given the current state of the roster.
Plugging holes along the OL and ER in FA would be nice but realistically probably won’t happen. There won’t be many attractive FA’s at need spots. Maybe they get an ER or OT, maybe they get lucky and get both. It’s slim pickings from the anticipated pool of players and that may dwindle before FA even starts. Then there’s no guarantee the available guys will sign here even if the money is right.
The Giants could find themselves going into the draft needing a RT, C, and successor at LT. They could need two ERs.
CB has no place in the conversation this year, especially after everything they’ve invested in the secondary the last two years. If they’re deficient going into 20 so be it. If Okudah is the bpa then hopefully there’s a GM out there who shares your philosophy and will give up a bunch to select him.
I don't think so, Bill. If we've seen any shift at all at the top of the draft, it's an elevation of OG's.
Passers, pass-protectors, and pass-rushers are still at a premium. I'd argue that WR's might be overvalued as a 1st round group, because "pass-catchers" can include TE's and RB's, too, but that's a separate issue.
Good pass-defenders are a fine thing to have. No one is suggesting that the CB position should be ignored or relegated solely to day three picks or UDFA's, least of all me. But I look at a pick like Okudah at #4 as a homeowner replacing all of his windows while the foundation of his house is crumbling beneath him.