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NFT: Mets sale will have no 5-year transition period

pjcas18 : 2/9/2020 6:47 pm
some good news on an otherwise shitty day.

per bloomberg, per twitter (Joe Demayo)

.  
pjcas18 : 2/9/2020 6:48 pm : link
Figures  
ripdumaine : 2/9/2020 6:50 pm : link
Now they want to do that. Sale could have been done already
If the control requirement  
KDavies : 2/9/2020 6:50 pm : link
Is why the deal fell through with Cohen, why would it not just go through with him now?
Hopefully we get  
Eli owns all : 2/9/2020 6:50 pm : link
An owner that wants to spend. Look what the dodgers are doing with new owner.
My guess  
pjcas18 : 2/9/2020 6:53 pm : link
is there was something with Cohen MLB didn't like.

otherwise I have no explanation other than he got uncomfortable with the 5 years and tried to renegotiate.

Just my opinion.

I don't get the feeling MLB is covering for the Wilpons here. It was a sweet deal for them. They'd have no reason to monkey around with it based on those terms.
RE: Hopefully we get  
Eman11 : 2/9/2020 6:58 pm : link
In comment 14807460 Eli owns all said:
Quote:
An owner that wants to spend. Look what the dodgers are doing with new owner.


Yeah but that owner is able to make money off their TV rights and from what I've heard SNY isn't included in any Mets sale. At least not for the next ten years or so.
RE: My guess  
KDavies : 2/9/2020 7:11 pm : link
In comment 14807463 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
is there was something with Cohen MLB didn't like.

otherwise I have no explanation other than he got uncomfortable with the 5 years and tried to renegotiate.

Just my opinion.

I don't get the feeling MLB is covering for the Wilpons here. It was a sweet deal for them. They'd have no reason to monkey around with it based on those terms.


Yeah, that crossed my mind. He had the insider trading thing, but Steinbrenner was a convicted felon, and was a great owner.

Something is weird about this. A billionaire with a ton of money, who is a lifelong Mets fan, originally agrees to buy them when the Wilpons stay on, but isn’t now? It doesn’t add up
I never  
pjcas18 : 2/9/2020 7:23 pm : link
understood how the Mets were getting $2.6B without SNY included in the transaction.

It doesn't make any sense.

I am guessing Cohen did this as some sort of publicity stunt, but I think he also knew it would force more scrutiny on the team and pressure a sale.

I think Cohen knew what he was doing, but never intended to follow through on this at those terms.

Just my opinion.
It’s confusing for sure but  
Giant John : 2/9/2020 8:00 pm : link
We really don’t know what the issues were. Who knows Cohen could step back into the picture.
What’s to stop Cohen from bidding in the auction?  
Rflairr : 2/9/2020 8:14 pm : link
.
Reports out yesterday  
ZGiants98 : 2/9/2020 8:20 pm : link
that BVW "aggressively pursued" Francisco Lindor this offseason starting from about the winter meetings on.

Brought this up a number of times.

Supposedly the asking price was Rosario plus two of our top prospects. Gotta say, Im pretty bummed we couldn't make that happen.
RE: What’s to stop Cohen from bidding in the auction?  
pjcas18 : 2/9/2020 8:21 pm : link
In comment 14807555 Rflairr said:
Quote:
.

nothing, some speculated he could. But if you read his comments it almost sounds like this was his pre-determined outcome.
RE: What’s to stop Cohen from bidding in the auction?  
pjcas18 : 2/9/2020 8:22 pm : link
In comment 14807555 Rflairr said:
Quote:
.

nothing, some speculated he could. But if you read his comments it almost sounds like this was his pre-determined outcome.
I have a feeling  
giantsfan227B : 2/9/2020 8:43 pm : link
MLB told the Wilpons we will protect you on the Cohen fiasco but will not again. There is no such thing as selling a team and remaining in control.
RE: I have a feeling  
Eric on Li : 2/9/2020 9:04 pm : link
In comment 14807590 giantsfan227B said:
Quote:
MLB told the Wilpons we will protect you on the Cohen fiasco but will not again. There is no such thing as selling a team and remaining in control.


I tend to agree with this take. The quotes from Cohen's side seemed to make clear that he and the Wilpon's viewed the "control person" differently over the 5 years - and I think there's a reason that's not something any of us have ever heard of with a prior sale.

I doubt MLB had an issue with Cohen initially since he was already a part owner and surely had to go through some form of vetting just to get in at any level.

So if the Wilpons are completely removing that provision going forward, and they also aren't just accepting Cohen's modified understanding of the offer, it stands to reason there was something else going on here too - and that's not shocking since he was clearly willing to go beyond gray areas with his main career. So back to the original premise, I believe MLB probably wasn't happy with the Wilpon's putting a poison pill into the offer and similarly wasn't happy with however Cohen handled it.

This could end up being the best possible outcome if another strong owner, who has never been indicted by the sdny, comes along and the Wilponzi's are out immediately.
I saw some speculation  
moespree : 2/9/2020 9:15 pm : link
That theorized Cohen did some shady shit here and that he never really had an intention of owning the team, rather got involved to drive the price up. So now when it's sold for an even higher amount than it otherwise would have been his current 8% interest can either be bought off by the new owner for a significantly higher amount than it would have been or he can hold it as it will now more than double in value due to the new sale deal.

The speculation is this is why the owners and commish are pissed off at him and suggesting he'll never be allowed to buy a team. They realized what he did.
RE: I saw some speculation  
pjcas18 : 2/9/2020 9:22 pm : link
In comment 14807628 moespree said:
Quote:
That theorized Cohen did some shady shit here and that he never really had an intention of owning the team, rather got involved to drive the price up. So now when it's sold for an even higher amount than it otherwise would have been his current 8% interest can either be bought off by the new owner for a significantly higher amount than it would have been or he can hold it as it will now more than double in value due to the new sale deal.

The speculation is this is why the owners and commish are pissed off at him and suggesting he'll never be allowed to buy a team. They realized what he did.


this was my assumption too based on a) Cohen's comments and b) MLB and the beats strong language about it not being on the Wilpons that the deal feel through. I don't buy that the league or the beats are simply Mets mouthpieces or protecting the Wilpons.
Sounds to me like two idiots that want to entice a buyer  
montanagiant : 2/9/2020 9:28 pm : link
And then try to wedge in the control issue down the road. just like they did Cohan
RE: Sounds to me like two idiots that want to entice a buyer  
montanagiant : 2/9/2020 9:29 pm : link
In comment 14807640 montanagiant said:
Quote:
And then try to wedge in the control issue down the road. just like they did Cohan

Cohen I mean
Cohen was poised to become the wealthiest owner in MLB  
Eric on Li : 2/9/2020 9:31 pm : link
an 8% stake in a team worth 2.6b is $208m.
at a 2b valuation that = $160m.
at a 3b valuation that = $240m.

Point being even if he drove up the price a half a billion dollars, it's a rounding error to a guy whose art collection is reportedly worth over $1b.

Not saying he didn't do something shady but I find it hard to believe this was a scheme to boost the value of his minority interest in the team. Lawyer fees and 6 months of his time are probably worth more to him than whatever he stands to gain.
Nothing regarding Mets ownership  
ZGiants98 : 2/9/2020 9:42 pm : link
or future ownership will excite me until the next person or grouping has signed on the dotted line.

Could care less about all this nonsense until we have something final on paper.

Im ready to focus on 2020 and a talented Mets roster.

Rumors, speculation, posturing, negotiating... Yawn. Especially with the fickle Wilpons in the fold.

If we end up with an owner with deep pockets...  
Torrag : 2/9/2020 9:51 pm : link
and don't get saddled with some BS Wilponsi delayed control component that's an even better result than Cohen and waiting years to see the back of them. The sooner Fred and his cronies are gone the better. They presided over the sleaziest, most dysfunctional phase in Mets franchise history.
Would not shock me if  
bhill410 : 2/10/2020 7:08 am : link
They cannot find anyone willing to pay more and end up with Cohen anyway.
Any speculation on potential interested buyers?  
Chris684 : 2/10/2020 9:08 am : link
I just searched and found a compilation of names but it was from 2011.

It was funny to go back in time and see names like Repole from Vitamin Water, Trump, Jerry Seinfeld, etc.

Andy  
DanMetroMan : 2/10/2020 10:22 am : link
Martino came off extremely poorly during this debacle. He acknowledged the conflict of interest people were accusing him of but then proceeded to only defend the Wilpons and then quickly moved on to other topics. Either man up and do your job or sit this one out.
Forgot  
DanMetroMan : 2/10/2020 10:24 am : link
to mention, he pissed off Carlos Delgado essentially accusing him of being a cheater by using his notebook and comparing that to the Astros shit... he had to apologize. Not a good look for weasel Martino (Cespedes also used his voice criticizing him in his newest hype video).
FG  
DanMetroMan : 2/10/2020 10:26 am : link
Here are the teams with several early picks as the draft order currently stands:

Detroit (1, 38, 63, 75)
Baltimore (2, 30, 39, 76)
Miami (3, 40, 62, 77)
Kansas City (4, 32, 41, 78)
Seattle (6, 43, 65, 80)
Pittsburgh (7, 31, 44, 81)
San Diego (8, 34, 45, 82)
Colorado (9, 35, 46, 83)
Cincinnati (12, 48, 66, 86)
San Francisco (13, 49, 68, 69, 87)
New York Mets (19, 53, 70, 93)
St. Louis (21, 55, 64, 71, 95)
Washington (22, 56, 72, 96)
Cleveland (23, 36, 57, 97)
Tampa Bay (24, 37, 58, 98)
the delgado comment was 1 of the stupidest attempts at an equivalence  
Eric on Li : 2/10/2020 10:29 am : link
I've ever seen. The guy clearly gets access to info from somewhere but he most be an absolute moron. Carlos Delgado clowning him about it was solid.
RE: the delgado comment was 1 of the stupidest attempts at an equivalence  
DanMetroMan : 2/10/2020 10:30 am : link
In comment 14807943 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
I've ever seen. The guy clearly gets access to info from somewhere but he most be an absolute moron. Carlos Delgado clowning him about it was solid.


This from a guy who once accused Mets fans of disliking Castillo because he was latino....
RE: the delgado comment was 1 of the stupidest attempts at an equivalence  
pjcas18 : 2/10/2020 10:37 am : link
In comment 14807943 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
I've ever seen. The guy clearly gets access to info from somewhere but he most be an absolute moron. Carlos Delgado clowning him about it was solid.

agree, and he tried to backtrack on it
Please, please  
sshin05 : 2/10/2020 10:44 am : link
Let this be real this time.
Is the no SNY thing a big deal?  
ChathamMark : 2/10/2020 10:51 am : link
Thought that was a pretty big revenue chunk for the Wilpons, and the new guy/girl does not get that. Clip from an article I read:

The negative, Ganis said, is the exclusion of SNY, which will make it more difficult for any prospective owner to make money.

“If SNY is not included, the potential flip in losses to profitability is likely to be significantly deferred,” he said.
RE: Is the no SNY thing a big deal?  
DanMetroMan : 2/10/2020 10:56 am : link
In comment 14807970 ChathamMark said:
Quote:
Thought that was a pretty big revenue chunk for the Wilpons, and the new guy/girl does not get that. Clip from an article I read:

The negative, Ganis said, is the exclusion of SNY, which will make it more difficult for any prospective owner to make money.

“If SNY is not included, the potential flip in losses to profitability is likely to be significantly deferred,” he said.


Yes- it's likely a significant part of the price.
Speculation  
giantsfan227B : 2/10/2020 11:50 am : link
I saw in one article is that by removing the clause that the Wilpon's want control for a certain amount of time the price could very well be higher. With the amount of debt still owed on the team and stadium I can't imagine someone or group paying hundreds of millions more than Cohen. I thought his line "I look forward to getting a higher bid" for his 8% ownership stake was great. Basically saying get more and I get paid and don't and I am still here. Whether MLB at this point will allow Cohen back in is another story but at the very least will want maximum $$$ which drives up the cost of other teams. If no one beats out Cohen are they truly going to force the Mets to sell for a lower price than what they had?

This is a dangerous game. MLB better know what they are doing. I just wonder who is a Mets fan that has that type of cash AND willing to spend it. Unless Michael Bloomberg wants to chuck down a ton of cash on the team (assuming his Presidential Bid fails) there are not many people with that amount of money and it is hard to imagine a public corporation laying down the money since they would have to answer to stockholders.

I wouldn't be shocked if Cohen gets back in the game.
Don’t Assume Deep Pockets  
Samiam : 2/10/2020 11:53 am : link
I know nothing about what went on with the deal except what the public relations people are spinning so I take anything that’s sent with a grain of salt. That said, most seem to assume that if the buyer is not Cohen, it’ll be somebody ridiculously wealthy with deep pockets willing to spend more than the Wilpons. What I’m worried about is somebody putting together a deal who doesn’t have the big bucks and will need to sell off assets to pay for the deal and take on partners to finance the purchase. And, doesn’t have the money to spend large. I can’t stand the Wilpons but we could get something worse. I’m hoping Cohen is trying to drive the purchase price down and ends up,with the club.
RE: Cohen was poised to become the wealthiest owner in MLB  
TyreeHelmet : 2/10/2020 4:14 pm : link
In comment 14807642 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
an 8% stake in a team worth 2.6b is $208m.
at a 2b valuation that = $160m.
at a 3b valuation that = $240m.

Point being even if he drove up the price a half a billion dollars, it's a rounding error to a guy whose art collection is reportedly worth over $1b.

Not saying he didn't do something shady but I find it hard to believe this was a scheme to boost the value of his minority interest in the team. Lawyer fees and 6 months of his time are probably worth more to him than whatever he stands to gain.


Spot on. I think Cohen did this because he wanted to own the Mets and nothing else.
So  
DanMetroMan : 2/10/2020 4:22 pm : link
very Mets
Link - ( New Window )
So if Cohen  
pjcas18 : 2/10/2020 4:51 pm : link
didn't do something shady (or at best cold feet) how do you explain how the transaction fell apart?

The 5 year transition period was reported as such since the day the news broke.

Either you believe Cohen got buyers remorse and tried to change the terms, or you believe MLB, the beat writers, and Cohen are covering for the Wilpons.

RE: So if Cohen  
DanMetroMan : 2/10/2020 5:00 pm : link
In comment 14808375 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
didn't do something shady (or at best cold feet) how do you explain how the transaction fell apart?

The 5 year transition period was reported as such since the day the news broke.

Either you believe Cohen got buyers remorse and tried to change the terms, or you believe MLB, the beat writers, and Cohen are covering for the Wilpons.


If you believe reports the Wilpons wanted Cohen to remain a silent partner/piggy bank over the 5 years. He was under the impression he'd have decision making power. Fred also insisted that Jeff remain on after the 5 years in a decision making role at a salary of 4 million per season.
Do  
DanMetroMan : 2/10/2020 5:02 pm : link
you honestly remember any recent sports sale where the old owner remained in charge for 5 years while another owner paid 2+ billion to sit there and just wait and then kept the old owner not only on the payroll but also in a "decision making" role? Even when the story broke the impression was Cohen would be taking over majority stake once he gained league approval and would be involved if not outright in charge immediately. Then after the 5 year period it would fully be his team. The newer reports suggest otherwise. That the Wilpons wanted the cash but not to step aside.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/10/2020 5:05 pm : link
"Jeff Wilpon wanted to take Cohen’s initial investments as the majority owner to build the club’s funds, but still make the final decisions regarding the franchise over a five-year transitional period.

The source confirmed to amNewYork that New York Daily News’ Deesha Thosar‘s initial report from Wednesday was correct in that the Wilpons were looking to extend the length of that phase-out period and their hold of SNY — the source adding that the television demands “added fuel the fire.”"
Normally  
DanMetroMan : 2/10/2020 5:10 pm : link
pro-Mets Jacob Resnick chimes in

"Jacob Resnick
@Jacob_Resnick
·
2h
It is ironic that the organization has talked about wanting to create a unified "Mets way" throughout the organization but would rather let this clubhouse sit dormant for 10 months than let their minor leaguers use it in the summer."
I have been wondering if minority owners  
bhill410 : 2/10/2020 7:08 pm : link
Have a right if first refusal. It’s a pretty common clause and it wouldn’t shock me if Cohen has that provision, possibly allowing him to get back into this.
RE: I have been wondering if minority owners  
Eric on Li : 2/10/2020 7:18 pm : link
In comment 14808457 bhill410 said:
Quote:
Have a right if first refusal. It’s a pretty common clause and it wouldn’t shock me if Cohen has that provision, possibly allowing him to get back into this.


I would guess not only because Einhorn wanted a clause like that as a minority owner and when the Wilpon's realized he was angling to become a majority owner they scuttled that deal.
Reports coming out of fox business  
bhill410 : 2/10/2020 7:27 pm : link
That interest for Mets at 3 billion is “scant” and that Katz family is pissed Cohen deal fell apart.

I know I am a broken record but I can’t help but think that Cohen eventually gets this assuming the bridge hasn’t been burned too drastically between wilpons and MLB. It just makes too much sense.
The Wilpons have inspired me  
Jim in Fairfax : 2/10/2020 7:33 pm : link
I think I’ll sell my house and insist the buyer let me keep living there for another 5-10 years.
'Katz family is pissed'  
Torrag : 2/10/2020 7:37 pm : link
They should be. Saul apparently wants out. That and approaching the debt ceiling allowed by MLB are the driving forces behind the Wilponsis finally selling.

Now he finds out that a record deal for a MLB franchise sale was torpedoed by unrealistic demands of continued control by his 'partners'.

Here's an idea  
figgy2989 : 2/11/2020 7:34 am : link
If the Wilpons are so set on keeping control of the team, why don't they buy out they just buy out the Katz stake in the team?

Oh..that's right...they don't have the money to do this because all of their funds are tied up in real estate deals that they can't pay for.

If this was all a ruse to drive up the valuation for the team, they failed miserably.
How  
DanMetroMan : 2/11/2020 7:40 am : link
Jeff was allowed to blow this for the rest of the "family" is beyond me. Fred isn't without fault (insisting Jeff stay on, raise etc) but letting 2+ billion roll out the door because you're a selfish prick... impressive.
"Zero"  
DanMetroMan : 2/11/2020 7:48 am : link
serious inquiries since the Cohen news broke per my Mets guy (he doesn't work for the team but has people who do)
Everything we've watched with the Mets for years  
Chris684 : 2/11/2020 9:08 am : link
makes sense when you consider Jeff has been the strongest voice in the room for a while.

Whatever they can F up, they F up. It never fails.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/11/2020 10:17 am : link
Old article but (relevant in regard to this tweet) in 2013
@business
valued
@Mets
at 2.1 billion.. with 1.2 billion coming from SNY.. so... if SNY is not included... the value of
@Mets
to a new buyer is highly depreciated
the reality is there are only 600 billionaires in the US and a lot of  
Eric on Li : 2/11/2020 10:34 am : link
them are worth less than the 2.6b Cohen offered and/or don't live near the team or have much interest in owning the Mets. All the waxing poetic on Mark Cuban, he's worth like $4b. You think he's spending more than half his net worth on the Mets?

It is a very, very, very, small group of people who can lead a purchase of this value. And an even smaller group who check the box of giving a shit about the Mets.
Cespedes  
DanMetroMan : 2/11/2020 10:36 am : link
to see some reps at 1b? Seems like a waste of time with Alonso, Dom, Davis and Cano all on the roster. My guess... they hope to send Cespedes somewhere and save themselves from spending 11 million (his salary jumps to 11 if he's on the OD roster).
RE: .  
pjcas18 : 2/11/2020 11:05 am : link
In comment 14808738 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Old article but (relevant in regard to this tweet) in 2013
@business
valued
@Mets
at 2.1 billion.. with 1.2 billion coming from SNY.. so... if SNY is not included... the value of
@Mets
to a new buyer is highly depreciated


even if this has increased significantly since 2013 as I expect it has, this is why I felt like $2.6B for the Mets without SNY and with a 5 year transition seemed farcical.

I believe there was never intent for Cohen to buy the team.

Just looked at the Forbes list  
bhill410 : 2/11/2020 11:16 am : link
and based upon that (which obviously is not always completely accurate), there are 330 US residents whose net worth is 2.6 billion or higher.

So this is an extremely shallow pond. Furthermore, unless SNY is included or the contract renegotiated to be market value, the Mets lose money. So if someone whose net worth is say 5 billion or less comes on we could actually be in a worse spot because they may not be willing to incur losses and the Wilpons may have refused to give up their stake in SNY.

To add, if you are a minority owner, meaning you pony up your minimum 60 million to be a member of the ownership group, you are going to be even less persuaded to buy a team that is going to be losing money and you are going to be on the hook for repeatedly investing 1-2 milllion to cover operating losses.

All of this is consistent with my belief that if they actually want to sell the team they go back to Cohen.
I will be up front is saying I have no idea what the current SNY  
figgy2989 : 2/11/2020 11:33 am : link
contract looks like with regards to the Mets.

But if I am a potential buyer and paying top dollar without getting SNY, once I get control of the team (assuming it is right away), can't that person essentially eliminate or not renew the SNY contract? If the Wilpon's want to hold on to that so badly, can't the new owner work out a deal with MSG or essentially start another network to broadcast the Mets games?

I know SNY has the Nets and get some college basketball/football games from time to time, but without the Mets, the network would go bankrupt.

Again, I have no idea, but if keeping SNY is just another revenue stream for Sterling Properties, ultimately, the next buyer can cut that off.

I have said it numerous times, but if a sale was to go through, I want no ties to the Wilpons/Katz/Sterling Properties, etc...
Figgy  
DanMetroMan : 2/11/2020 11:47 am : link
when the deal fell apart it was report the Wilpons wanted to extend the SNY deal for more than the current "20 years" if that means that was the initial contract then the Mets are tied to SNY through 2026 at minimum. If that means 20 more years then obviously we are talking 2040. I have no insight on the SNY contract other than until the contract expires the Mets will air on SNY.
Rojas  
DanMetroMan : 2/11/2020 11:49 am : link
says no timeline on Cespedes yet.
Port St Lucie  
TyreeHelmet : 2/11/2020 11:57 am : link
Puts up 55 million of the 57 million cost to build a new facility. But the little league field initially in the plans has to get scrapped from the budget? Not mention the clubhouse can’t be used by the minor leaguers? But hey atleast Brodie and Jeff have lockers!

Really shows you the type of of people the Wilpons are.
Rojas  
DanMetroMan : 2/11/2020 12:18 pm : link
said everyone but DeGrom is competing for a rotation spot. Silly but not a big deal.
Thanks Dan  
figgy2989 : 2/11/2020 1:54 pm : link
That makes sense and if I am a potential buyer and not having SNY a sort of the deal, that has to be considered. After 2026, the TV rights go out to bid.
RE: Thanks Dan  
Metnut : 2/11/2020 1:59 pm : link
In comment 14808973 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
That makes sense and if I am a potential buyer and not having SNY a sort of the deal, that has to be considered. After 2026, the TV rights go out to bid.


A buyer would probably be willing to wait until 2026 (after subtracting some cash off of the valuation) since they'd get a chance for a new TV deal (SNY is close to worthless without the Mets TV rights).

The problem is if the Wilpons extend the SNY deal (at some below market rate) to like 2040, then why would anyone pay anything close to a full valuation for the team when one of the most valuable assets (the tv rights) wouldn't be included?
A  
DanMetroMan : 2/11/2020 2:11 pm : link
potential buyer wants to sever ties with SNY as soon as possible. The Dodgers TV deal was worth nearly...9 billion with Spectrum for context. Cable rights are a HUGE value.
Dan  
figgy2989 : 2/11/2020 2:20 pm : link
My exact thoughts as well. I remember the Dodger deal the the cable deal was a huge part.

If the Wilpon's are really concerned about that revenue stream that they get from holding on to SNY, I really see that as a hold up from any potential buyers.


The more I think about it  
figgy2989 : 2/11/2020 2:23 pm : link
I really do think we will be stuck with the Wilpon's in some fashion forever.

It would be great if a new buyer comes in, buys the team and says to Fred, hey, we will definitely look into extending that SNY deal at some point, but let's get this ownership deal done first. Then once the ink is dry, he or she gives a big middle finger to them and says SNY is done after 2026!
RE: I will be up front is saying I have no idea what the current SNY  
Section331 : 2/11/2020 2:58 pm : link
In comment 14808856 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
contract looks like with regards to the Mets.

But if I am a potential buyer and paying top dollar without getting SNY, once I get control of the team (assuming it is right away), can't that person essentially eliminate or not renew the SNY contract? If the Wilpon's want to hold on to that so badly, can't the new owner work out a deal with MSG or essentially start another network to broadcast the Mets games?


The Mets (and Sterling) own 65% of SNY, and it is a cash cow. Any Mets buyer is going to want SNY included.
They  
DanMetroMan : 2/11/2020 3:13 pm : link
would want SNY to bleed it dry or buy out the Mets contract. Local cable networks aren't worth as much as deals directly with the cable networks, see the Dodgers.
if they want cash and keep control  
capone : 2/11/2020 3:50 pm : link
they should just borrow and cash LP's out... something tells me they don't have room to borrow more , or they would - $ is VERY cheap now... if the fans really get together and really pinch their cashflows they could force their hand
Dan I don’t think that is accurate  
bhill410 : 2/11/2020 3:53 pm : link
And likely driven by market dynamics. For starters that dodger deal has been a disaster as the dodgers were never picked up by most local cable providers, secondly yes, nesn, and sny are immensely profitable. We just don’t have clear visibility into that profit and since they control everything soup to nuts it’s much more difficult to extrapolate overhead and production costs. It is also a good way to hide revenue from profit sharing which is why I have always been curious why it’s allowed.
RE: Dan I don’t think that is accurate  
DanMetroMan : 2/11/2020 4:07 pm : link
In comment 14809096 bhill410 said:
Quote:
And likely driven by market dynamics. For starters that dodger deal has been a disaster as the dodgers were never picked up by most local cable providers, secondly yes, nesn, and sny are immensely profitable. We just don’t have clear visibility into that profit and since they control everything soup to nuts it’s much more difficult to extrapolate overhead and production costs. It is also a good way to hide revenue from profit sharing which is why I have always been curious why it’s allowed.


bhill,
t we "heard" Cohen didn't care about taking SNY but did care about the Wilpon's extending the agreement leads me to believe he felt he could "do better" on his own. Mike Ozanian from Forbes sees it the way I do (not that I'm some cable sports guru) (die horn is obviously an autocorrect for Einhorn)

Responding to another poster he said

"
ERD
@e_r_d4
Replying to
@MikeOzanian
Standalone networks (excl. YES) having a really tough go (sub decline, carriage problems, RF increases). Not sure new owner wants to take on an asset of this nature unless it was then sold to one of the current RSN operators or otherwise added to a larger portfolio of networks."

Mike Ozanian
@MikeOzanian
·
22h
Agree. Die horn and Cohen didn’t want SNY plus SNY not growing past 2 years. Figure maybe worth 5 times revenue
Beltran  
DanMetroMan : 2/11/2020 4:46 pm : link
comes off VERY poorly in the new piece on the Astros cheating, McCann on the other hand openly was trying to stop them from cheating.
RE: Beltran  
Eric on Li : 2/11/2020 10:55 pm : link
In comment 14809130 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
comes off VERY poorly in the new piece on the Astros cheating, McCann on the other hand openly was trying to stop them from cheating.


"I did not ask Carlos about it, I read the article the same time everyone else did"
- BVW
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2020 11:07 am : link
@fangraphs places only 1 Met in their top 120 prospects in baseball "Mets:
Ronny Mauricio: 35
Andres Gimenez: 103
Mark Vientos: 106".. @BaseballAmerica ranked @mets system 26th, down from 19th #Mets
RE: .  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2020 11:13 am : link
In comment 14809616 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
@fangraphs places only 1 Met in their top 120 prospects in baseball "Mets:
Ronny Mauricio: 35
Andres Gimenez: 103
Mark Vientos: 106".. @BaseballAmerica ranked @mets system 26th, down from 19th #Mets


how is that one Met and then three are listed?

Mets pay a premium on prospsect rankings too? 3 for 1?
RE: RE: .  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2020 11:14 am : link
In comment 14809621 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14809616 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


@fangraphs places only 1 Met in their top 120 prospects in baseball "Mets:
Ronny Mauricio: 35
Andres Gimenez: 103
Mark Vientos: 106".. @BaseballAmerica ranked @mets system 26th, down from 19th #Mets



how is that one Met and then three are listed?

Mets pay a premium on prospsect rankings too? 3 for 1?


Top 100 prospects that should read. Top 100 is generally what is considered a "top" prospect.

"The deal will include at least 1 top 100 prospect" is what you usually hear not "1 top 120 prospect" no?
I was just  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2020 11:15 am : link
going by what the words say.
It  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2020 11:17 am : link
was a simple copy and paste error. Most people consider "top 100". MLB.com, BA, BP does 101 for some reason but top 100 is the industry standard.
Nate  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2020 11:20 am : link
Pearson who the Mets reportedly were prepared to take before opting for David Peterson... #8 prospect in baseball per FG. Ugh
RE: .  
giants#1 : 2/12/2020 11:22 am : link
In comment 14809616 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
@fangraphs places only 1 Met in their top 120 prospects in baseball "Mets:
Ronny Mauricio: 35
Andres Gimenez: 103
Mark Vientos: 106".. @BaseballAmerica ranked @mets system 26th, down from 19th #Mets


Isn't that 3 Mets?
RE: RE: .  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2020 11:26 am : link
In comment 14809637 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14809616 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


@fangraphs places only 1 Met in their top 120 prospects in baseball "Mets:
Ronny Mauricio: 35
Andres Gimenez: 103
Mark Vientos: 106".. @BaseballAmerica ranked @mets system 26th, down from 19th #Mets



Isn't that 3 Mets?


Explained above.

"It
DanMetroMan : 11:17 am : link : reply
was a simple copy and paste error. Most people consider "top 100". MLB.com, BA, BP does 101 for some reason but top 100 is the industry standard."
Not going to lose sleep over someone ranking two Mets prospects  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2020 11:27 am : link
103 and 106, but people only care about top 100.

plus the Mets have maybe 5 prospects I think are more interesting than Gimenez or Vientos. I am more interested in Szapucki, Alvarez, Allan, Baty, and Wolf.

Either way, I don't get hung up on prospect rankings and definitely won't sulk over not having more than 1 top 100 especially when two of them are 103 and 106.
26th  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2020 11:29 am : link
best system is absolute shit given their lack of much to show for it. That's the point.
Gimenez looks like  
Metnut : 2/12/2020 11:30 am : link
a bust to me. Not exciting at all. Hope I'm wrong.

Much more interested and excited about Alvarez, Allan and Baty. A healthy Szapucki could get back on the radar too but I'll believe that when I see it.
RE: 26th  
Metnut : 2/12/2020 11:31 am : link
In comment 14809653 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
best system is absolute shit given their lack of much to show for it. That's the point.


Why are you surprised? Did you see the trades our GM made?

The good news is that PECOTA has the Mets as slight favorites in the NL east next year. At least we have a good MLB team to watch next year since the farm system looks a bit underwhelming.
I  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2020 11:33 am : link
haven't seen Szapucki or Wolf on any reputable top 100 lists or even honorable mentions. MLB.com didn't mention either in their list of players who just missed either. (Allan was)
FG's  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2020 11:35 am : link
thinks Gimenez has league average upside but hard to see where that would be with the Mets with McNeil, Cano, Rosario and Mauricio the top prospect in the system. They think Vientos is a 1b.
Mets  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2020 11:38 am : link
refused to give an update on Lowrie. What the fuck happened to this guy and why are they still paying him? I truly don't understand why it's so secretive.
Dan  
Drewcon40 : 2/12/2020 11:44 am : link
I love your updates and truly respect your posts but sometimes (without context) I don't know what you are referring to? Lowrie is hurt? Didn't he finish last season healthy?
RE: Dan  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2020 11:45 am : link
In comment 14809675 Drewcon40 said:
Quote:
I love your updates and truly respect your posts but sometimes (without context) I don't know what you are referring to? Lowrie is hurt? Didn't he finish last season healthy?


Apparently he was NOT healthy but got AB's anyway.
RE: Mets  
Jim in Fairfax : 2/12/2020 11:46 am : link
In comment 14809664 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
refused to give an update on Lowrie. What the fuck happened to this guy and why are they still paying him? I truly don't understand why it's so secretive.

What option do they have but to pay him? He has a contract and didn’t pull a Cespedes, so what can they do?
hmmmm  
Drewcon40 : 2/12/2020 11:47 am : link
Dan, don't get me wrong...this is my main source of Mets news so I was just curious.
Again  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2020 11:48 am : link
he had a few AB's in September yet this is from 2 months ago

" "We've continued to try to diagnose what Jed's issues were that kept them out this season. We'll continue to do that with the plan for him being 100 percent ready to go for spring training."

"It's not going to be a normal offseason considering what he went through last year."

What the hell does that mean? If he was healthy enough to play what does the second quote mean?
RE: RE: Mets  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2020 11:51 am : link
In comment 14809680 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 14809664 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


refused to give an update on Lowrie. What the fuck happened to this guy and why are they still paying him? I truly don't understand why it's so secretive.


What option do they have but to pay him? He has a contract and didn’t pull a Cespedes, so what can they do?


Why the secrecy? When have we heard of an injury with ZERO information that kept a player out this long with no real idea?

This is from.. July

"Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
·
Jul 12, 2019
Jed Lowrie had a recent setback in his rehab - strained right calf. He had been building up his left side, according to Brodie Van Wagenen."

It's now February and they are still trying to diagnose his issues? Not a normal off-season? From a calf strain in.. July?
Oh  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2020 11:54 am : link
and this was what they said about the injury that somehow kept him out from the first day of ST until when he strained his calf in June/July

"
Wayne Randazzo
@WayneRandazzo
·
Feb 21, 2019
Brodie Van Wagenen said on
@wcbs880
that Jed Lowrie’s MRI revealed no significant damage, and they’ll bring him along slowly. #Mets"

So no significant damage in Feb... not back by June/July, strained calf... July-August-Sept... allow him to have a few ab's... December.. "continue to try and diagnose his issues"... why wasn't his off-season normal if he played in Sept? Why is this such a mystery for a calf strain in July?
Here is AA  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2020 12:12 pm : link
with a full timeline and how strange it's been
Link - ( New Window )
RE: 26th  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2020 12:32 pm : link
In comment 14809653 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
best system is absolute shit given their lack of much to show for it. That's the point.


it's pretty rare for a team to have a competitive major league team and a solid farm. Of course I'd like both, but given the choice I'd pick a competitive major league team 100 times out of 100.

problem is despite the talent the Mets major league team was not competitive.

if they were I don't care if the farm is 30th.

RE: RE: 26th  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2020 12:42 pm : link
In comment 14809730 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14809653 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


best system is absolute shit given their lack of much to show for it. That's the point.



it's pretty rare for a team to have a competitive major league team and a solid farm. Of course I'd like both, but given the choice I'd pick a competitive major league team 100 times out of 100.

problem is despite the talent the Mets major league team was not competitive.

if they were I don't care if the farm is 30th.


PJ that's just not accurate
TB, Atlanta, LAD, Arizona, Twins are all top farm systems in baseball and won 85+ games last year... LAD arguably the best team in baseball on paper


I don't have access to BA's full list but here is Bleacher reports top 6 farms...

Rays, Padres, Braves, Mariners, Dodgers, Twins,


Link - ( New Window )
I guess we have different goals  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2020 12:50 pm : link
for being competitive. The Mets won over 85 games last year and I did not consider them competitive.

None of those teams you mentioned made it out of the division series.

and if the results  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2020 12:52 pm : link
show three or four teams out of 30 are competitive and have highly rated farm systems I'd consider that rare.

if you don't then we also differ on the definition of rare.
RE: I guess we have different goals  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2020 12:55 pm : link
In comment 14809752 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
for being competitive. The Mets won over 85 games last year and I did not consider them competitive.

None of those teams you mentioned made it out of the division series.


PJ c'mon. The Dodgers won 106 games, the Twins 101, Braves 97, Rays 96. Those are top MLB teams in the sport and will likely be again.. with their top ranking farm systems in tow.

PECOTA has LAD as the best team in baseball with 103 wins, Twins 93, Rays 87. You can really say with a straight face these teams aren't "competitive" or top teams in the game? I find that very hard to believe.
RE: RE: I guess we have different goals  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2020 12:59 pm : link
In comment 14809760 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 14809752 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


for being competitive. The Mets won over 85 games last year and I did not consider them competitive.

None of those teams you mentioned made it out of the division series.




PJ c'mon. The Dodgers won 106 games, the Twins 101, Braves 97, Rays 96. Those are top MLB teams in the sport and will likely be again.. with their top ranking farm systems in tow.

PECOTA has LAD as the best team in baseball with 103 wins, Twins 93, Rays 87. You can really say with a straight face these teams aren't "competitive" or top teams in the game? I find that very hard to believe.


I'm saying it doesn't matter to me what rank random expert/site has for the farm system if the major league team is competitive.

I don't think many teams have both competitive major league teams and highly ranked farm systems, but it's ancillary to my point.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2020 1:03 pm : link
Tim Healey
@timbhealey
·
4m
Luis Rojas said he got to the facility today at 5:30 a.m. — five hours before the Mets’ workout. He said he had to get a workout in before actually starting his work day.
Anthony DiComo
@AnthonyDiComo
·
1m
On the first official day of Mets spring workouts, Luis Rojas arrived at the facility at 5:30 a.m. so he could get in a workout before beginning his day. (Perhaps trying to make good on Noah Syndergaard's proclamation that Rojas is the "most jacked manager in the league.")
Dom  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2020 1:07 pm : link
Smith is early. Will wear #2 if he makes the team.
I mean if we essentially kept BVW from picking up a phone  
bhill410 : 2/12/2020 1:25 pm : link
We would probably be a top 10 team farm wise and our senior team would probably be in similar boat. We have 3/4 top 100 prospects traded by that bonehead.
SNY  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2020 1:33 pm : link
posted a video of Cespedes lightly working out. Looks like he has a bit of a gut, but he likely always does #LooseUnis
RE: I mean if we essentially kept BVW from picking up a phone  
Eric on Li : 2/12/2020 1:50 pm : link
In comment 14809795 bhill410 said:
Quote:
We would probably be a top 10 team farm wise and our senior team would probably be in similar boat. We have 3/4 top 100 prospects traded by that bonehead.


Exactly. The way I look at it right now we have:

5 very good IF prospects (Mauricio, Gimenez, Vientos, Alvarez, Baty)
1 very good SP prospect (Allen)
3-6 interesting P prospects but who knows (Wolf, Peterson, Smith, Kilome, Szapucki, Santos)
and 0 OF prospects

Kelenic, SWR, and Kay would have given them 3 more very good prospects and an overall very strong top 9.

Kay would have been both our 9th best prospect right now and in the futures game last year, which would speak to an impressive system.

Fingers crossed Stroman wins his first Cy Young edging out Diaz' in a comeback player of the year season, but I'm not holding my breathe.
Incredibly  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2020 1:53 pm : link
by the rankings the Mets top OF prospect has played a whopping 3 games stateside and he (Freddy Valdez) is ranked #18 in a poor system. Pretty tough to pull off being unable to draft/find OF's. Nimmo was drafted... in 2011, Conforto 2014. Forget "stars", where are the potential 4th OF types? Yeesh.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2020 1:55 pm : link
Mathew Brownstein
@MBrownstein89
Amed Rosario through the years:

K%:
2017: 28.8
2018: 20.1
2019: 18.9

Hard Hit %:
2017: 25.0
2018: 32.1
2019: 39.1

Avg. exit velocity:
2017: 84.3
2018: 87.3
2019: 89.2

xwOBA:
2017: .245
2018: .290
2019: .320
RE: Incredibly  
Eric on Li : 2/12/2020 2:03 pm : link
In comment 14809818 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
by the rankings the Mets top OF prospect has played a whopping 3 games stateside and he (Freddy Valdez) is ranked #18 in a poor system. Pretty tough to pull off being unable to draft/find OF's. Nimmo was drafted... in 2011, Conforto 2014. Forget "stars", where are the potential 4th OF types? Yeesh.


Need to hope all the IF'ers pan out to the point where maybe 1 of them shifts to the OF competently the way McNeil was able to. But yeah, the state of OF'ers in the system makes the Kelenic trade that much more insane.
So only because I am obsessed with this  
bhill410 : 2/13/2020 1:11 pm : link
there are rumors on the Mets Reddit sub that are very very hearsayish that Cohen maybe back negotiating since there seems to be little appetite out there for current asking price.

Also was doing some digging on the Dodgers situation v. mets. SNY apparently has a net profit (not gross) of 150 million according to one of the NY times articles that came out. Dodgers TV deal amounts to 280 million per year over 25 years. Now that timespan I am sure accounts for appreciation of the contract so I would suspect it is probably closer to 180-200 at this point. What is interesting about the Time Warner deal is that it called for the creation of a dodgers network that would be owned by the Dodgers with Time Warner but where Time warner took all of the risk (meaning that 280 average was guaranteed). This is relevant because apparently if you own your TV network, you only have to make FMV approximation of the deal available for revenue sharing due to the fact there is risk and fluctuation with TV stations. At the time other franchises were chirping that they didnt really own the network since they were not taking any risk on. In the dodgers case that risk was significant because most local cable providers did not pick up the station.

All of that is a fancy way of saying the SNY value (of which 65 is owned by Wilpons) is significant. 150 profit x going market rate of 7x for Ebita (in my industry that seems to be going rate) is over a billion dollar valuation.

Forbes  
pjcas18 : 2/13/2020 1:19 pm : link
or one of the sites available by googling it has all the franchises broken out into parts and estimated the value of the Mets franchise (no SNY, no ballpark which I don't even think the Mets own anyway) at under $1B and SNY at a little over $1B.

Which again is why after letting it sink in a little $2.6B from Cohen for just the Mets with no SNY and a 5-year period for the Wipons to loot the store seemed preposterous and leads me to think he was not sincere in his attempt to buy the team.
bhill  
CMicks3110 : 2/13/2020 3:57 pm : link
Can you provide link to reddit
RE: Forbes  
DanMetroMan : 2/13/2020 4:00 pm : link
In comment 14810530 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
or one of the sites available by googling it has all the franchises broken out into parts and estimated the value of the Mets franchise (no SNY, no ballpark which I don't even think the Mets own anyway) at under $1B and SNY at a little over $1B.

Which again is why after letting it sink in a little $2.6B from Cohen for just the Mets with no SNY and a 5-year period for the Wipons to loot the store seemed preposterous and leads me to think he was not sincere in his attempt to buy the team.


But then how do the Wilpons look if they sell the Mets (again without SNY) for FAR less than 2.6 billion? Don't they come off looking like utter morons?
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/13/2020 4:13 pm : link
Per @kevinmdraper "more than a dozen" insiders the Wilpons do not want to give up control of @Mets. He also confirms @SNYtv is not part of the negotiations. It is not a given @mets are sold at all. The team was valued at 1.5 billion last year when the Wilpons bought back 12% of the team
RE: Forbes  
DanMetroMan : 2/13/2020 4:15 pm : link
In comment 14810530 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
or one of the sites available by googling it has all the franchises broken out into parts and estimated the value of the Mets franchise (no SNY, no ballpark which I don't even think the Mets own anyway) at under $1B and SNY at a little over $1B.

Which again is why after letting it sink in a little $2.6B from Cohen for just the Mets with no SNY and a 5-year period for the Wipons to loot the store seemed preposterous and leads me to think he was not sincere in his attempt to buy the team.


PJ,
The closest we can come to an actual valuation is the knowledge that the Wilpons paid X for 12% of the team last year (buying back shares) and at the time the value sans SNY was 1.5 billion so your number looks about right.
RE: RE: Forbes  
pjcas18 : 2/13/2020 4:20 pm : link
In comment 14810672 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 14810530 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


or one of the sites available by googling it has all the franchises broken out into parts and estimated the value of the Mets franchise (no SNY, no ballpark which I don't even think the Mets own anyway) at under $1B and SNY at a little over $1B.

Which again is why after letting it sink in a little $2.6B from Cohen for just the Mets with no SNY and a 5-year period for the Wipons to loot the store seemed preposterous and leads me to think he was not sincere in his attempt to buy the team.



But then how do the Wilpons look if they sell the Mets (again without SNY) for FAR less than 2.6 billion? Don't they come off looking like utter morons?


they look no worse. They always look bad.

I'm no conspiracy theorist, but I wouldn't be shocked if the whole thing was a charade and Cohen was in on it and it was orchestrated to try and flush a new buyer out of bushes with slightly better terms (no 5 year transition), but otherwise similar shitty terms to the original deal that Cohen was never going to agree with.

nothing about this sounds plausible.

Cmicks I am admittedly a maroon with this stuff  
bhill410 : 2/13/2020 7:51 pm : link
And every time I try and get the link the reddit app opens on my phone. It was from yesterday midday. If you google Mets Reddit go about 15 or so posts down.
Ouch  
pjcas18 : 2/14/2020 9:13 am : link
Quote:
Athlete Logos
@athletelogos
·
43m
Happy Valentines Day #Mets fans. #LGM @nymvalentines


RE: Cmicks I am admittedly a maroon with this stuff  
JayBinQueens : 2/14/2020 9:20 am : link
In comment 14810831 bhill410 said:
Quote:
And every time I try and get the link the reddit app opens on my phone. It was from yesterday midday. If you google Mets Reddit go about 15 or so posts down.

Was it this?
Link - ( New Window )
Yup that was source  
bhill410 : 2/14/2020 10:06 am : link
Admittedly sketchy and also in direct contrast to that post yesterday that manfred killed deal because of insider trading stuff.
I  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2020 12:35 pm : link
realize this topic is boring to most but on the SNY stuff, apparently revenue has really stalled out with 292, 294 and 295 the past 3 seasons (SNL Kagan projected 460 million in revenue in 2018). Similar stagnation for MSG (I'm not knocking the Mets) but it's something to consider.

- Brodie comes off very poorly here. He was upset with Wheeler saying he wasn't surprised the Mets didn't really pursue him

@NYPost_Mets
Brodie Van Wagenen said he was “surprised” and “disappointed” with Zack Wheeler’s comments yesterday, after the Mets “helped him parlay two good half-seasons over the last five into $118 million.”

Yet... when Wheeler signed with the Phillies

"the value for what we thought the investment (was) didn't line up. The projections that we had for Zack (Wheeler), both short-term and long-term, didn't quite match up to the market he was able to enjoy."


So YOU say you think they overpaid and he's not allowed to say what he said? lol good lord thin skin
NYPOST  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2020 1:49 pm : link
says A-Rod may kick the tires on a bid if he can find investors... and that Cohen may still be lurking.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2020 1:51 pm : link
“No chance A-Rod pulls that off, especially with Steve Cohen still out there playing safety on this thing,” said one banker familiar with Cohen and the deal. “This auction will not get close to $3 billion, and it will be lucky to get over $2 billion. Steve knows that, he’s talking to people and he’s waiting for the Wilpons to come back begging for $2.6 billion and no five-year window.”

Cohen declined to comment on the notion that he is still actively monitoring the situation, but one source close to the $13 billion financier made it clear that he would not be involved with the Mets auction and “refuses to be used as a stalking horse” in the process.

Neither Rodriguez nor his representative, Ron Berkowitz, could be reached for comment.

The ARod thing is a nice headline  
Metnut : 2/14/2020 2:02 pm : link
but the fact that they wrote that sources confirm Cohen is still involved is the bigger news IMO. Some of us thought that this might be a negotiation tactic on his part. It'll be interesting to look back a year from now and see how this all shakes out.
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