The transition tag guarantees the original club the right of first refusal to match any offer the player may make with another team.
On the surface it seems like this could be our best option, let Williams assess his true market value while still giving us the opportunity to match. Ensures we don't overpay, yet still gives us the opportunity to sign him long term.
What does everyone think?
The TT is estimated to be around $12-13M for DTs. So cheaper than the FT. The downside is if a team matches there is no compensation back like a FT situation...
I can not imagine we wouldn't match any offer
How much do Judge/Williams value him? This is a very big question imo.
If Williams were to leave via signing a big contract with another team, his salary would be part of the 2021 compensatory pick calculation I assume.
If Williams were to leave via signing a big contract with another team, his salary would be part of the 2021 compensatory pick calculation I assume.
I don't think so. I could be wrong but I don't think tagged players are but that is more a guess than anything else. I remember Gettleman FT-ing Norman and then rescinding it. Norman wasn't used in the formula if I am not mistaken.
If Williams were to leave via signing a big contract with another team, his salary would be part of the 2021 compensatory pick calculation I assume.
Like I mentioned above, the TT comes with NO compensation if we were not to match.
Definitely. It’s Leonard Williams, he’s young and freakishly talented. He’ll be here next season, and will continue to be solid, if not excellent.
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And Williams plays in the majority of games and stays relatively healthy, the world will continue to spin on its axis.
Definitely. It’s Leonard Williams, he’s young and freakishly talented. He’ll be here next season, and will continue to be solid, if not excellent.
He's never been excellent. He's a slightly above-average 3-4 DE/DT, and there's no reason in the world to overpay for one of those.
In the case of LW the first set of conditions would apply. He earned $14M last season so the higher number in his case would be 120% of that or $16.8M.
The only 'benefit' to this would be the short term of the deal but I don't see us tagging him at that cost.
Remarkably well done. Eat shit now or eat shit later. Two great choices.
Remind me again why this clown kept his job?
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And Williams plays in the majority of games and stays relatively healthy, the world will continue to spin on its axis.
Definitely. It’s Leonard Williams, he’s young and freakishly talented. He’ll be here next season, and will continue to be solid, if not excellent.
Lmao. He has never even been remotely close to excellent. And where is this “freakish” talent that you talk about?
Guy has never been more than solid at any point and now he’s going to be excellent after getting a huge payday.
Being optimistic is one thing, but thats nothing more than blind optimism.
The Giants would be smart to let him walk. Dont make the mistake of giving up a 3rd round pick for him worse by handing out a huge contract. The 3rd round pick cant be part of the equation in whether or not ge is brought back. This team is far away from winning and should not even consider giving a guy who doesnt rush the passer at all that kind of money.
If no one here wants to pay LW $15M a year(his ask) why do we believe some other team will? That makes no sense at all.
The best result is for him to test free agency and then sign with the Giants for a reasonable amount. It would mean giving up a 5th round pick instead of a 4th round pick in 2021 (if they were to re-sign him prior to free agency).
That said I agree with those that say they wouldn't have made the trade to begin with. I don't like the value on the return. I'll like it more if we keep him. But really what did giving up a 3rd rounder get us? A few months with him to see him up close?
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In comment 14807584 djm said:
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And Williams plays in the majority of games and stays relatively healthy, the world will continue to spin on its axis.
Definitely. It’s Leonard Williams, he’s young and freakishly talented. He’ll be here next season, and will continue to be solid, if not excellent.
Lmao. He has never even been remotely close to excellent. And where is this “freakish” talent that you talk about?
Guy has never been more than solid at any point and now he’s going to be excellent after getting a huge payday.
Being optimistic is one thing, but thats nothing more than blind optimism.
The Giants would be smart to let him walk. Dont make the mistake of giving up a 3rd round pick for him worse by handing out a huge contract. The 3rd round pick cant be part of the equation in whether or not ge is brought back. This team is far away from winning and should not even consider giving a guy who doesnt rush the passer at all that kind of money.
This was a contract year, one where his original team cut him loose and he was on an audition with the Giants, and that's the best play he could offer. The combo of age and being paid likely means this guy's play falls off a cliff, from his current standing as 'solid', yet some people keep playing off his draft status and his 'freakish talent' which somehow has never been able to translate to performance.
I really hope Judge is as advertised and has more say than we think, otherwise he's just as fucked as the coaches who came before him.
In the case of LW the first set of conditions would apply. He earned $14M last season so the higher number in his case would be 120% of that or $16.8M.
The only 'benefit' to this would be the short term of the deal but I don't see us tagging him at that cost.
Which makes you wonder why the LW Team, if you believe the reports, is looking for $15M/yr. They should know that they could get $16.8M at the FT. So that should be their baseline to start any multi-year deal...
Otherwise, his reps are being negligent is their approach...
That may be true (and you're right that it does happen with some regularity), but even if the tag isn't the jumping off point, it's part of the equation, as is LW's 2019 salary of $14.2M.
You said on another thread that you felt that $12-$12.5M AAV was fair market value for LW. I think that's probably a fair estimate (though still think it was a poor trade to waste draft picks for a guy who isn't good enough to be talking about as a market-setting type of talent anyway), but I would be absolutely stunned if LW's contract comes in anywhere lower than $15M AAV.
How many dollars above "fair market value" does a contract have to be in order for you to consider it a definitive overpay?
His current salary is $14,200,000 so no matter what his 2020 number would be $17,040,000 on either tag.
I think it has to be either a long term deal that offers a better cap number or we let him walk which would be one of the worst trades in the history of the NFL in my opinion. Basically giving the Jets 2 picks for really nothing.
Williams was on his 5th year option - which was $14.2M.
The number you're seeing on OTC is the amount the Giants paid him in 2019 after the trade (which was halfway through the season) and after the Jets ate a portion of his salary as a condition of the trade itself.
Facts do indeed matter. Want to try again?
Seriously I don't know what people are expecting. Is he the best DL in the NFL? No. But he is absolutely a great core piece to the DL.
You may want to keep pissing and moaning about the trade of picks, and yeah I get it. But He is a talented guy.
LW is a good player, but $15M is an overpay, $17M is ridiculous. He was a luxury that a good team could take a chance on, we weren't in that position.
Seriously I don't know what people are expecting. Is he the best DL in the NFL? No. But he is absolutely a great core piece to the DL.
You may want to keep pissing and moaning about the trade of picks, and yeah I get it. But He is a talented guy.
If you acknowledge that he's not among the best DL in the NFL, surely you would concede that paying him like he's among the best DL in the league would be foolish, wouldn't you?
Paying players more than they are worth is a bad way to do business in a capped league.
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People downplay the guys talent. He is a good team player, a great run defender, and adds a ton to this front.
Seriously I don't know what people are expecting. Is he the best DL in the NFL? No. But he is absolutely a great core piece to the DL.
You may want to keep pissing and moaning about the trade of picks, and yeah I get it. But He is a talented guy.
If you acknowledge that he's not among the best DL in the NFL, surely you would concede that paying him like he's among the best DL in the league would be foolish, wouldn't you?
Paying players more than they are worth is a bad way to do business in a capped league.
So what is he worth? There's a lot of hand-wringing but nobody knows exactly what we will pay him yet. Personally I have no problem if the Giants give him 12-13 Mill a year. See if he gets a better offer.
So what is he worth? There's a lot of hand-wringing but nobody knows exactly what we will pay him yet. Personally I have no problem if the Giants give him 12-13 Mill a year. See if he gets a better offer.
12-13 mill would be fine, but I don't see how he would accept a pay cut, especially given that his agent knows he has the Giants in a bind. Giving up picks almost guarantees that they have to resign him, and letting him test the market has risks too.
Hmm, not sure. As far as I know he is made 6 Mill this season, and the Jets picked up 4 mill of that. I think that 14.2 Mill is the dead cap... But not sure... there are other people here that know cap better than I do.
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there's no way he accepts a value that is less than that right now -- think about it -- he's a player in his prime
Hmm, not sure. As far as I know he is made 6 Mill this season, and the Jets picked up 4 mill of that. I think that 14.2 Mill is the dead cap... But not sure... there are other people here that know cap better than I do.
He made $14.2M. There's a dead cap element because the Jets traded him in the middle of a guaranteed salary season so his prorated salary shifted to "dead money" on their 2019 cap.
If you look at Spotrac, it's a bit clearer than on OTC (link below). Including his prorated salary through week 8 along with the money the Jets picked up as a term of the trade, they paid $10,682,353 for Leonard Williams in 2019. The Giants then paid him $3,517,647 for the remainder of the 2019 season. Those two numbers add up exactly to $14,200,000.
I'm not sure where the confusion is coming from with regard to his 2019 salary - the 5th year option is a published number.
LW Spotrac Page - ( New Window )
Yeah I wouldn't be upset. If Judge wants him, I want him... lol
Not an especially good one, but...
His ascension to greatness didn't start until after late October of 2019, apparently.
It's valid to ask whether a very good player is worth 15 mill a year. Depends if you consider a core player doing the dirty work worth that money I guess. I'd be OK with it (Greg is not OK with anything the Giants do, especially Gettleman) but to act like he's not a good player is just... well, silly.