and woke me and my sister up to put us in front of the television (we were both very young). He wanted us to witness a little sports history. Always enjoy catching replays of that fight on ESPN Classic. I'm sure it'll pop up somewhere tonight.
He didn't properly train for fights for at least a few years. This was the first time it fully caught up with him. He wasted supreme talent.
Tyson was actually an excellent tactical fighter early in his career. His head and footwork were unmatched. He just had brutal power (and some dirty punches) that won fights so quick, that is is easily overlooked. After Atlas was gone, he not only wasn't in shape for many fights, but he just stopped boxing. His defense went out the window, his footwork was lazy, and his use of multi-punch combinations was gone. He looked for the one punch wins, which he was still able to muster often enough.
Tyson fights were generally boring anyway and he was fighting a complete nobody. Dad told me, "Hey, you never know what may happen." Lo and behold, Dad was right. Again.
He didn't properly train for fights for at least a few years. This was the first time it fully caught up with him. He wasted supreme talent.
Tyson was actually an excellent tactical fighter early in his career. His head and footwork were unmatched. He just had brutal power (and some dirty punches) that won fights so quick, that is is easily overlooked. After Atlas was gone, he not only wasn't in shape for many fights, but he just stopped boxing. His defense went out the window, his footwork was lazy, and his use of multi-punch combinations was gone. He looked for the one punch wins, which he was still able to muster often enough.
Not to mention his personal life being in complete turmoil and being manipulated/exploited by Don King.
Jets-Colts was a big one. Another one that is often overlooked was Rulon Gardner
Good call re: Rulon Gardner. Karelin hadn’t lost a match in 13 years, and hadn’t given up a point to an opponent in 6 years before Rulon beat him for Gold in 2000
He was unprepared, as was his trend after firing Atlas. However, he knocked out Douglas earlier in the fight. The ref blew the count.
I'm glad someone brought this up. There's a video out there showing the counts simultanesouly of when Buster and Tyson where knocked down, and the speed of the refs count on Buster was a joke. At one point the ref stops his count and turns around for a second of two, and then slowly continues.
I will just make this comment and then back away as I get blasted by the younger readers of this thread :
Tyson was likely the most overrated fighter of my life. He wouldn't have been anything but average in the hey day of heavyweights. Ali, Smokin Joe, Foreman, even Holmes, and a number of others would have beaten him.
I saw all of them in their prime. Tyson was in their class. Styles made fights. How he would have done vs any of them is just speculation. Cus Damato/Kevin Rooney Tyson was an all time great. Don King Tyson not so much.
I will just make this comment and then back away as I get blasted by the younger readers of this thread :
Tyson was likely the most overrated fighter of my life. He wouldn't have been anything but average in the hey day of heavyweights. Ali, Smokin Joe, Foreman, even Holmes, and a number of others would have beaten him.
I don't completely agree. I will say that Tyson fought in a terrible era for heavyweight boxing. That allowed him to completely dominate for more than a few years, even when not at his best.
While I agree that he definitely would not be steamrolling through the era you mentioned and may have lost to some of them, I don't think he would have been outclassed. To me, the biggest difference is that a number of guys in that era would have been willing and able to go toe to toe with him. Ali, Norton, Frazier, Forman, Holmes all could fight with him. That was the beauty of that era. They all fought each other and were willing to go at it. Tyson certainly wouldn't have been able to bully these guys. But, the young, disciplined, well-trained Tyson would still be able to fight with them. The Tyson that had no real trainer or discipline would have been shredded by all of those fighters.
Douglas was alert and watching ref for count. He was not knocked out. Douglas fought the perfect fight. He would not back up. He stayed in the center of the ring and pushed Tyson back when he bull rushed and used his jab. People forget Douglas was a big man that had good skills. His career ended because he did not like to fight or train. He was not a talent less bum.
during a sporting event. The world might as well have been bombarded with comets and asteroids as far as I was concerned.
I'll always love Tyson. To me he's probably the most fascinating sports figure of his era. One part monster, one part superstar, one part human, one part sympathetic figure. I don't think he gets enough credit for opening up as he has the last 10 years or so.
during a sporting event. The world might as well have been bombarded with comets and asteroids as far as I was concerned.
I'll always love Tyson. To me he's probably the most fascinating sports figure of his era. One part monster, one part superstar, one part human, one part sympathetic figure. I don't think he gets enough credit for opening up as he has the last 10 years or so.
That last point is spot on. He also doesn't get a lot of credit for his true love and knowledge of boxing. Unlike most people here, this fight was one of my least favorite sports memories.
RE: RE: never been more excited, shocked and amazed Â
during a sporting event. The world might as well have been bombarded with comets and asteroids as far as I was concerned.
I'll always love Tyson. To me he's probably the most fascinating sports figure of his era. One part monster, one part superstar, one part human, one part sympathetic figure. I don't think he gets enough credit for opening up as he has the last 10 years or so.
That last point is spot on. He also doesn't get a lot of credit for his true love and knowledge of boxing. Unlike most people here, this fight was one of my least favorite sports memories.
I don't know that most people enjoyed it. I felt it was more of a train wreck, personally.
What I recall most about it was how shocking it was.
He was unprepared, as was his trend after firing Atlas. However, he knocked out Douglas earlier in the fight. The ref blew the count.
I remember the post-fight press conference on ESPN. King, Tyson et al were watching the replay where Douglas was knocked down, and counting out loud as Douglas struggled to get up. It seemed pretty clear he didn't beat the count...
I will just make this comment and then back away as I get blasted by the younger readers of this thread :
Tyson was likely the most overrated fighter of my life. He wouldn't have been anything but average in the hey day of heavyweights. Ali, Smokin Joe, Foreman, even Holmes, and a number of others would have beaten him.
with all due respect, i say BS. Tysonw as a force of nature in the 80s. For about 5 years or so he was a dominant force and would have been a handful for any great fighter. He made mincemeat of the entire division before his peak came to an end. HE didn't have the best chin, i'll give you that, be he was so elusive and quick and powerful. And I truly believe the world was cheated because of Don King once he got his tentacles into Tyson. If Tyson was managed properly throughout, he would have been a legend for longer than his legend lasted.
I will just make this comment and then back away as I get blasted by the younger readers of this thread :
Tyson was likely the most overrated fighter of my life. He wouldn't have been anything but average in the hey day of heavyweights. Ali, Smokin Joe, Foreman, even Holmes, and a number of others would have beaten him.
"even Holmes" really underrates him. He was a great fighter in his prime. And I agree that there is no way Tyson beats Ali or Foreman in their primes either. Not sure about Frazier. Height and style wise he was tailor made for Tyson, who had those short powerful punches. Ali, Holmes and Foreman would have pumped jabs in his face all night.
Tyson fights were generally boring anyway and he was fighting a complete nobody. Dad told me, "Hey, you never know what may happen." Lo and behold, Dad was right. Again.
Greg - friends and I were walking up Rugby Road that very night. Lots were deep into their cups already, and we were telling people that Tyson lost. No one believed us...
Buster beat the crap out of him HOLYFIELD ruined him Â
I was telling people for yrs prior holyfield would beat him, even in his "prime"
Thing is when Tyson finally fought evander, evanader was 34 and thought to be shot
Man vs boy Holy beats him 10/10 mentally it was like schooling the playground bully
Funny thing is they are close friends now they were pretty tight in amateurs
Tyson was awesome for a few yr period would beat frazier and norton foreman would bounce him off canvas holmes jab would dominate and ALI would have him befuddled and quitting before end of fight
Butch those every 4-6 weeks tyson fights were great to watch on HBO we would do mega bongs then watch fun times!
Tyson fights were generally boring anyway and he was fighting a complete nobody. Dad told me, "Hey, you never know what may happen." Lo and behold, Dad was right. Again.
Greg - friends and I were walking up Rugby Road that very night. Lots were deep into their cups already, and we were telling people that Tyson lost. No one believed us...
Rugby Road in Brooklyn?
RE: Buster beat the crap out of him HOLYFIELD ruined him Â
I was telling people for yrs prior holyfield would beat him, even in his "prime"
Thing is when Tyson finally fought evander, evanader was 34 and thought to be shot
Man vs boy Holy beats him 10/10 mentally it was like schooling the playground bully
Funny thing is they are close friends now they were pretty tight in amateurs
Tyson was awesome for a few yr period would beat frazier and norton foreman would bounce him off canvas holmes jab would dominate and ALI would have him befuddled and quitting before end of fight
Butch those every 4-6 weeks tyson fights were great to watch on HBO we would do mega bongs then watch fun times!
When he was fighting every 6 weeks, it was on ABC. That's how I got to see most of his fights.
I think the issue is Tyson's career is really split in 3 Â
His early career, trained by Rooney, he was a truly fantastic boxer. He was often mistaken for just a brute force puncher, but he was a fantastic defensive fighter. He was lightning quick with textbook footwork and head movement. He made his opponents miss and then destroyed them. Most of the fights were over so fast that you really couldn't appreciate the tactician he was.
Part 2 is Rooney fired. Don King managed his career and his buddies "trained" him. At that point he got lazy and overconfident and his friends were nothing more than yes men. They trained where he wanted and when he wanted and skipped training when he wanted. In this period, he was still more talented and stronger than most of the inferior talent in the heavyweight division. That is how he got to his first few decisions. They couldn't beat him, but he was looking for the knockout and let fights go on too long, instead using the deadly multi-punch combinations he was known for.
Part 3 is obviously after prison. Then he just became an exaggerated version of #2, only his skills were deteriorating. This is the version too many remember and use, I think, when talking about how Tyson would fare against the Ali era. I truly believe if the Tyson from the first 1/3 of his career fought them, he would absolutely hold up. He would frustrate Holmes, Ali, and Foreman as much as they did him...moreson Holmes and Ali. Also, are we talking about vintage Ali or the older Ali?
RE: RE: RE: My dad put the fight on. I was annoyed. Â
about how boxing has changed. We had 30+ people gathered around the fraternity TV watching that fight. I can't think of the last time I've watched a boxing match.
and how all they had for swelling was a rubber glove they filled with cold water. At one point they were bickering and giving him conflicting advice between rounds.
RE: I remember how clueless his corner men looked, Â
and how all they had for swelling was a rubber glove they filled with cold water. At one point they were bickering and giving him conflicting advice between rounds.
That is a good point and highlights the disarray of his camp. Those were boxing professionals in his corner.
about how boxing has changed. We had 30+ people gathered around the fraternity TV watching that fight. I can't think of the last time I've watched a boxing match.
So true. I think that may really be the last PPV fight I watched.
about how boxing has changed. We had 30+ people gathered around the fraternity TV watching that fight. I can't think of the last time I've watched a boxing match.
Same here. I was a HUUUGE boxing fan. THe excess $$ from PPV ruined it. From being able to easily recite the 8 champions, now you have a title every 2 lbs. wit 4 sanctioning bodies at each weight. You need a spreadsheet to figure it out.
Funny thing is, for years boxing was derided as barbaric and cruel, but now MMA is just fine by the states. Punching with padded gloves is barbaric, flying kicks to the head okay.
so he loved the sport. Therefore I grew to love the sport.
I grew up in NJ right across the river from Easton, PA. So Larry Holmes was a big, big deal in the area. Nicest guy in the world. Used to see him out all of the time. Gracious guy who told great stories...as you'd expect. He hated having to fight Ali. Broke his heart when he realized early in the fight he could win easily.
Miss being a real young kid in the '80s when boxing was in a boom era with Leonard, Duran, Tyson, Benitiz, Sanchez, Hagler, Hearns, etc. The welter weight division was unbelievable.
Greatest fight I ever saw is coming up on its 30th year anniversary - Chavez v Meldrick Taylor. An absolute masterpiece. I still don't know how Taylor didn't die that night with the pounding he took at the end of that fight...
is that twice Buster Douglas was on the edge of winning the Heavy Weight Championship and stopped the fight. He had James Bone Crusher Smith beat and quit.
Douglas was a legit boxer, but lazy as hell.
I believe Tyson in the 50's, 60's and 70's would have done well to the point of being a legit contender and mid fifties champ.
He probably goes toe to toe with Smokin' Joe and wins. Foreman would have destroyed him; Mike was too short and Foreman was probably more powerful and would have beat him like he did with Joe in Jamaica. Ali would have beaten him, no doubt, just too smart and could take a punch like no one else. Ken Norton I'd say was 50/50, big man, tough puncher, he broke Ali's jaw. I think Kenny Holmes and he would have been one hell of a fight and would not predict a winner.
In the 50's he like wins until Sonny Liston, and then I'd call that a tough win for Liston. Floyd Patterson would have been destroyed.
I will just make this comment and then back away as I get blasted by the younger readers of this thread :
Tyson was likely the most overrated fighter of my life. He wouldn't have been anything but average in the hey day of heavyweights. Ali, Smokin Joe, Foreman, even Holmes, and a number of others would have beaten him.
I think Ali and Holmes would have danced around, frustrated him and tired him out then beat him in the later rounds. Foreman was such a devastating puncher that he probably would have knocked him out. Frazier, I don't know. If you use the Foreman fight as a measuring stick, Frazier wasn't a very smart boxer. If you're being bludgeoned you don't keep coming forward and leading with your face. I think Tyson-Frazier would have been a slug fest that would have maybe lasted 3 rounds.
I will just make this comment and then back away as I get blasted by the younger readers of this thread :
Tyson was likely the most overrated fighter of my life. He wouldn't have been anything but average in the hey day of heavyweights. Ali, Smokin Joe, Foreman, even Holmes, and a number of others would have beaten him.
"even Holmes" really underrates him. He was a great fighter in his prime. And I agree that there is no way Tyson beats Ali or Foreman in their primes either. Not sure about Frazier. Height and style wise he was tailor made for Tyson, who had those short powerful punches. Ali, Holmes and Foreman would have pumped jabs in his face all night.
IIRC Tyson never would've beaten Foreman even in the mid 80s. Didn't Cus D'Amato warn him never to fight Foreman because Foreman's style was Tyson's Kryptonite?
Tyson's corner was also a mess. Didn't have a eye iron to help with swelling and they a used a glove filled with water. Total trainwreck.
Honestly thought he knocked out Buster. Certain a few question marks with the count.
Douglas certainly fought the fight of his life and earned the title that day.
Tyson was certainly not in the best shape for his bout, but its not uncommon as other fighters who have rose to fame have experienced the same fate too.
Don King is a leach and has ruined many a fighter. Yet they still sign the deal and are taking advantage of.
If Jacobs had lived chances are Mike Tyson would have been better off for few years at the very least.
I didn't know who Douglas was before the fight, but I do remember reading stories saying that after the fight. Boxing writers thought he had plenty of talent but no fire or drive. That's what the story was after beating Tyson, that losing his mother fired him up and got him focused for the first (and, as it turned out, only) time in his career.
I didn't know who Douglas was before the fight, but I do remember reading stories saying that after the fight. Boxing writers thought he had plenty of talent but no fire or drive. That's what the story was after beating Tyson, that losing his mother fired him up and got him focused for the first (and, as it turned out, only) time in his career.
That was my take also. Very few people, outside of fanatic boxing followers really knew who Douglas was. I was watching boxing regularly at that point and I never heard of him or saw him fight prior to this fight being announced.
I didn't know who Douglas was before the fight, but I do remember reading stories saying that after the fight. Boxing writers thought he had plenty of talent but no fire or drive. That's what the story was after beating Tyson, that losing his mother fired him up and got him focused for the first (and, as it turned out, only) time in his career.
That was my take also. Very few people, outside of fanatic boxing followers really knew who Douglas was. I was watching boxing regularly at that point and I never heard of him or saw him fight prior to this fight being announced.
And, don't forget he wasn't even the #1 contender at the time. He was like #5 or #6.
RE: I think the issue is Tyson's career is really split in 3 Â
His early career, trained by Rooney, he was a truly fantastic boxer. He was often mistaken for just a brute force puncher, but he was a fantastic defensive fighter. He was lightning quick with textbook footwork and head movement. He made his opponents miss and then destroyed them. Most of the fights were over so fast that you really couldn't appreciate the tactician he was.
Part 2 is Rooney fired. Don King managed his career and his buddies "trained" him. At that point he got lazy and overconfident and his friends were nothing more than yes men. They trained where he wanted and when he wanted and skipped training when he wanted. In this period, he was still more talented and stronger than most of the inferior talent in the heavyweight division. That is how he got to his first few decisions. They couldn't beat him, but he was looking for the knockout and let fights go on too long, instead using the deadly multi-punch combinations he was known for.
Part 3 is obviously after prison. Then he just became an exaggerated version of #2, only his skills were deteriorating. This is the version too many remember and use, I think, when talking about how Tyson would fare against the Ali era. I truly believe if the Tyson from the first 1/3 of his career fought them, he would absolutely hold up. He would frustrate Holmes, Ali, and Foreman as much as they did him...moreson Holmes and Ali. Also, are we talking about vintage Ali or the older Ali?
so he loved the sport. Therefore I grew to love the sport.
I grew up in NJ right across the river from Easton, PA. So Larry Holmes was a big, big deal in the area. Nicest guy in the world. Used to see him out all of the time. Gracious guy who told great stories...as you'd expect. He hated having to fight Ali. Broke his heart when he realized early in the fight he could win easily.
Miss being a real young kid in the '80s when boxing was in a boom era with Leonard, Duran, Tyson, Benitiz, Sanchez, Hagler, Hearns, etc. The welter weight division was unbelievable.
Greatest fight I ever saw is coming up on its 30th year anniversary - Chavez v Meldrick Taylor. An absolute masterpiece. I still don't know how Taylor didn't die that night with the pounding he took at the end of that fight...
Taylor Chavez was fucking unbelievable. I agree It was the best fight I ever watched. I was talking to a casual but big enough boxing fan who never saw this fight and I never shut up about it. Richard Steele smh..... I know Taylor was pretty cooked but Cmon.... crooked! Even if Taylor was done... crooked.
He didn’t die that night but he was never the same fighter after that night. If you can track down the documentary about that fight I highly recommend it. Heartbreaking fight and a heartbreaking aftermath.
I have a hard time saying how good Tyson or wasn't at his prime Â
Because everyone else was such crap. I guess we can speculate he'd be competitive against the Ali/Frazier/Foreman era, but really what was ever shown to prove that.
RE: It has to rank right up there with the Miracle on Ice.... Â
BUT, while it was a devastating upset, the miracle on ice is, IMO, is on another level entirely.
When it comes to boxing,(heavy weight boxing to be specific), any fighter has a better shot at winning on a single wild punch at any second of any heavy weight fight than an entire team does at winning in hockey against the greatest team ever. Especially when said teams is fielding college students who aren’t getting paid and never have been paid.
In order for the US hockey team, made of actual college student athletes, to win that game they had to work together as a team, to hold off the greatest Professional hockey team in the history of the sport. That involved so many moving parts while also absent of the one punch pure luck haymaker possibility that can happen in any boxing match (especially in the heavy weight division) that the two are not comparable in my opinion.
Those kids not only had the pressure of the Russian team weighing on them. But they had the pressure of the entire nation, on US soil, with the world watching to try and manage. This was accompanied by the absolute misery of the economic recession and the over all low morale of the nation caused by the recession and the hostage crisis during that time. Not too mention this same Russian team had recently beaten them as if they weren’t even on the ice for the game. And they had also just decimated the NHL all star team days before. They beat them like they would a group of children against their parents who are all former professionals.
Douglas definitely upsetting Tyson ranks among the greatest upset in sports, but I don’t really think the two are on the same level. And that’s saying something. That’s saying a LOT.
Tyson was actually an excellent tactical fighter early in his career. His head and footwork were unmatched. He just had brutal power (and some dirty punches) that won fights so quick, that is is easily overlooked. After Atlas was gone, he not only wasn't in shape for many fights, but he just stopped boxing. His defense went out the window, his footwork was lazy, and his use of multi-punch combinations was gone. He looked for the one punch wins, which he was still able to muster often enough.
Tyson was actually an excellent tactical fighter early in his career. His head and footwork were unmatched. He just had brutal power (and some dirty punches) that won fights so quick, that is is easily overlooked. After Atlas was gone, he not only wasn't in shape for many fights, but he just stopped boxing. His defense went out the window, his footwork was lazy, and his use of multi-punch combinations was gone. He looked for the one punch wins, which he was still able to muster often enough.
Not to mention his personal life being in complete turmoil and being manipulated/exploited by Don King.
Jets-Colts was a big one. Another one that is often overlooked was Rulon Gardner
Quote:
as greatest sports upsets ever, no?
Jets-Colts was a big one. Another one that is often overlooked was Rulon Gardner
Good call re: Rulon Gardner. Karelin hadn’t lost a match in 13 years, and hadn’t given up a point to an opponent in 6 years before Rulon beat him for Gold in 2000
I'm glad someone brought this up. There's a video out there showing the counts simultanesouly of when Buster and Tyson where knocked down, and the speed of the refs count on Buster was a joke. At one point the ref stops his count and turns around for a second of two, and then slowly continues.
Tyson was likely the most overrated fighter of my life. He wouldn't have been anything but average in the hey day of heavyweights. Ali, Smokin Joe, Foreman, even Holmes, and a number of others would have beaten him.
Tyson was likely the most overrated fighter of my life. He wouldn't have been anything but average in the hey day of heavyweights. Ali, Smokin Joe, Foreman, even Holmes, and a number of others would have beaten him.
While I agree that he definitely would not be steamrolling through the era you mentioned and may have lost to some of them, I don't think he would have been outclassed. To me, the biggest difference is that a number of guys in that era would have been willing and able to go toe to toe with him. Ali, Norton, Frazier, Forman, Holmes all could fight with him. That was the beauty of that era. They all fought each other and were willing to go at it. Tyson certainly wouldn't have been able to bully these guys. But, the young, disciplined, well-trained Tyson would still be able to fight with them. The Tyson that had no real trainer or discipline would have been shredded by all of those fighters.
I'll always love Tyson. To me he's probably the most fascinating sports figure of his era. One part monster, one part superstar, one part human, one part sympathetic figure. I don't think he gets enough credit for opening up as he has the last 10 years or so.
I'll always love Tyson. To me he's probably the most fascinating sports figure of his era. One part monster, one part superstar, one part human, one part sympathetic figure. I don't think he gets enough credit for opening up as he has the last 10 years or so.
Quote:
during a sporting event. The world might as well have been bombarded with comets and asteroids as far as I was concerned.
I'll always love Tyson. To me he's probably the most fascinating sports figure of his era. One part monster, one part superstar, one part human, one part sympathetic figure. I don't think he gets enough credit for opening up as he has the last 10 years or so.
That last point is spot on. He also doesn't get a lot of credit for his true love and knowledge of boxing. Unlike most people here, this fight was one of my least favorite sports memories.
I don't know that most people enjoyed it. I felt it was more of a train wreck, personally.
What I recall most about it was how shocking it was.
I remember the post-fight press conference on ESPN. King, Tyson et al were watching the replay where Douglas was knocked down, and counting out loud as Douglas struggled to get up. It seemed pretty clear he didn't beat the count...
Tyson was likely the most overrated fighter of my life. He wouldn't have been anything but average in the hey day of heavyweights. Ali, Smokin Joe, Foreman, even Holmes, and a number of others would have beaten him.
with all due respect, i say BS. Tysonw as a force of nature in the 80s. For about 5 years or so he was a dominant force and would have been a handful for any great fighter. He made mincemeat of the entire division before his peak came to an end. HE didn't have the best chin, i'll give you that, be he was so elusive and quick and powerful. And I truly believe the world was cheated because of Don King once he got his tentacles into Tyson. If Tyson was managed properly throughout, he would have been a legend for longer than his legend lasted.
Tyson was likely the most overrated fighter of my life. He wouldn't have been anything but average in the hey day of heavyweights. Ali, Smokin Joe, Foreman, even Holmes, and a number of others would have beaten him.
"even Holmes" really underrates him. He was a great fighter in his prime. And I agree that there is no way Tyson beats Ali or Foreman in their primes either. Not sure about Frazier. Height and style wise he was tailor made for Tyson, who had those short powerful punches. Ali, Holmes and Foreman would have pumped jabs in his face all night.
Greg - friends and I were walking up Rugby Road that very night. Lots were deep into their cups already, and we were telling people that Tyson lost. No one believed us...
Thing is when Tyson finally fought evander, evanader was 34 and thought to be shot
Man vs boy Holy beats him 10/10 mentally it was like schooling the playground bully
Funny thing is they are close friends now they were pretty tight in amateurs
Tyson was awesome for a few yr period would beat frazier and norton foreman would bounce him off canvas holmes jab would dominate and ALI would have him befuddled and quitting before end of fight
Butch those every 4-6 weeks tyson fights were great to watch on HBO we would do mega bongs then watch fun times!
Quote:
Tyson fights were generally boring anyway and he was fighting a complete nobody. Dad told me, "Hey, you never know what may happen." Lo and behold, Dad was right. Again.
Greg - friends and I were walking up Rugby Road that very night. Lots were deep into their cups already, and we were telling people that Tyson lost. No one believed us...
Thing is when Tyson finally fought evander, evanader was 34 and thought to be shot
Man vs boy Holy beats him 10/10 mentally it was like schooling the playground bully
Funny thing is they are close friends now they were pretty tight in amateurs
Tyson was awesome for a few yr period would beat frazier and norton foreman would bounce him off canvas holmes jab would dominate and ALI would have him befuddled and quitting before end of fight
Butch those every 4-6 weeks tyson fights were great to watch on HBO we would do mega bongs then watch fun times!
Part 2 is Rooney fired. Don King managed his career and his buddies "trained" him. At that point he got lazy and overconfident and his friends were nothing more than yes men. They trained where he wanted and when he wanted and skipped training when he wanted. In this period, he was still more talented and stronger than most of the inferior talent in the heavyweight division. That is how he got to his first few decisions. They couldn't beat him, but he was looking for the knockout and let fights go on too long, instead using the deadly multi-punch combinations he was known for.
Part 3 is obviously after prison. Then he just became an exaggerated version of #2, only his skills were deteriorating. This is the version too many remember and use, I think, when talking about how Tyson would fare against the Ali era. I truly believe if the Tyson from the first 1/3 of his career fought them, he would absolutely hold up. He would frustrate Holmes, Ali, and Foreman as much as they did him...moreson Holmes and Ali. Also, are we talking about vintage Ali or the older Ali?
Charlottesville.....it's fraternity row for UVA.
Same here. I was a HUUUGE boxing fan. THe excess $$ from PPV ruined it. From being able to easily recite the 8 champions, now you have a title every 2 lbs. wit 4 sanctioning bodies at each weight. You need a spreadsheet to figure it out.
Funny thing is, for years boxing was derided as barbaric and cruel, but now MMA is just fine by the states. Punching with padded gloves is barbaric, flying kicks to the head okay.
Quote:
Rugby Road in Brooklyn?
Charlottesville.....it's fraternity row for UVA.
Yep. C-ville.
I grew up in NJ right across the river from Easton, PA. So Larry Holmes was a big, big deal in the area. Nicest guy in the world. Used to see him out all of the time. Gracious guy who told great stories...as you'd expect. He hated having to fight Ali. Broke his heart when he realized early in the fight he could win easily.
Miss being a real young kid in the '80s when boxing was in a boom era with Leonard, Duran, Tyson, Benitiz, Sanchez, Hagler, Hearns, etc. The welter weight division was unbelievable.
Greatest fight I ever saw is coming up on its 30th year anniversary - Chavez v Meldrick Taylor. An absolute masterpiece. I still don't know how Taylor didn't die that night with the pounding he took at the end of that fight...
Douglas was a legit boxer, but lazy as hell.
I believe Tyson in the 50's, 60's and 70's would have done well to the point of being a legit contender and mid fifties champ.
He probably goes toe to toe with Smokin' Joe and wins. Foreman would have destroyed him; Mike was too short and Foreman was probably more powerful and would have beat him like he did with Joe in Jamaica. Ali would have beaten him, no doubt, just too smart and could take a punch like no one else. Ken Norton I'd say was 50/50, big man, tough puncher, he broke Ali's jaw. I think Kenny Holmes and he would have been one hell of a fight and would not predict a winner.
In the 50's he like wins until Sonny Liston, and then I'd call that a tough win for Liston. Floyd Patterson would have been destroyed.
Tyson was likely the most overrated fighter of my life. He wouldn't have been anything but average in the hey day of heavyweights. Ali, Smokin Joe, Foreman, even Holmes, and a number of others would have beaten him.
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I will just make this comment and then back away as I get blasted by the younger readers of this thread :
Tyson was likely the most overrated fighter of my life. He wouldn't have been anything but average in the hey day of heavyweights. Ali, Smokin Joe, Foreman, even Holmes, and a number of others would have beaten him.
"even Holmes" really underrates him. He was a great fighter in his prime. And I agree that there is no way Tyson beats Ali or Foreman in their primes either. Not sure about Frazier. Height and style wise he was tailor made for Tyson, who had those short powerful punches. Ali, Holmes and Foreman would have pumped jabs in his face all night.
IIRC Tyson never would've beaten Foreman even in the mid 80s. Didn't Cus D'Amato warn him never to fight Foreman because Foreman's style was Tyson's Kryptonite?
Honestly thought he knocked out Buster. Certain a few question marks with the count.
Douglas certainly fought the fight of his life and earned the title that day.
Tyson was certainly not in the best shape for his bout, but its not uncommon as other fighters who have rose to fame have experienced the same fate too.
Don King is a leach and has ruined many a fighter. Yet they still sign the deal and are taking advantage of.
If Jacobs had lived chances are Mike Tyson would have been better off for few years at the very least.
I didn't know who Douglas was before the fight, but I do remember reading stories saying that after the fight. Boxing writers thought he had plenty of talent but no fire or drive. That's what the story was after beating Tyson, that losing his mother fired him up and got him focused for the first (and, as it turned out, only) time in his career.
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Douglas was a legit boxer, but lazy as hell
I didn't know who Douglas was before the fight, but I do remember reading stories saying that after the fight. Boxing writers thought he had plenty of talent but no fire or drive. That's what the story was after beating Tyson, that losing his mother fired him up and got him focused for the first (and, as it turned out, only) time in his career.
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In comment 14809189 section125 said:
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Douglas was a legit boxer, but lazy as hell
I didn't know who Douglas was before the fight, but I do remember reading stories saying that after the fight. Boxing writers thought he had plenty of talent but no fire or drive. That's what the story was after beating Tyson, that losing his mother fired him up and got him focused for the first (and, as it turned out, only) time in his career.
That was my take also. Very few people, outside of fanatic boxing followers really knew who Douglas was. I was watching boxing regularly at that point and I never heard of him or saw him fight prior to this fight being announced.
Part 2 is Rooney fired. Don King managed his career and his buddies "trained" him. At that point he got lazy and overconfident and his friends were nothing more than yes men. They trained where he wanted and when he wanted and skipped training when he wanted. In this period, he was still more talented and stronger than most of the inferior talent in the heavyweight division. That is how he got to his first few decisions. They couldn't beat him, but he was looking for the knockout and let fights go on too long, instead using the deadly multi-punch combinations he was known for.
Part 3 is obviously after prison. Then he just became an exaggerated version of #2, only his skills were deteriorating. This is the version too many remember and use, I think, when talking about how Tyson would fare against the Ali era. I truly believe if the Tyson from the first 1/3 of his career fought them, he would absolutely hold up. He would frustrate Holmes, Ali, and Foreman as much as they did him...moreson Holmes and Ali. Also, are we talking about vintage Ali or the older Ali?
Yup perfectly said.
I grew up in NJ right across the river from Easton, PA. So Larry Holmes was a big, big deal in the area. Nicest guy in the world. Used to see him out all of the time. Gracious guy who told great stories...as you'd expect. He hated having to fight Ali. Broke his heart when he realized early in the fight he could win easily.
Miss being a real young kid in the '80s when boxing was in a boom era with Leonard, Duran, Tyson, Benitiz, Sanchez, Hagler, Hearns, etc. The welter weight division was unbelievable.
Greatest fight I ever saw is coming up on its 30th year anniversary - Chavez v Meldrick Taylor. An absolute masterpiece. I still don't know how Taylor didn't die that night with the pounding he took at the end of that fight...
Taylor Chavez was fucking unbelievable. I agree It was the best fight I ever watched. I was talking to a casual but big enough boxing fan who never saw this fight and I never shut up about it. Richard Steele smh..... I know Taylor was pretty cooked but Cmon.... crooked! Even if Taylor was done... crooked.
It’s among the biggest upsets ever, no doubt.
BUT, while it was a devastating upset, the miracle on ice is, IMO, is on another level entirely.
When it comes to boxing,(heavy weight boxing to be specific), any fighter has a better shot at winning on a single wild punch at any second of any heavy weight fight than an entire team does at winning in hockey against the greatest team ever. Especially when said teams is fielding college students who aren’t getting paid and never have been paid.
In order for the US hockey team, made of actual college student athletes, to win that game they had to work together as a team, to hold off the greatest Professional hockey team in the history of the sport. That involved so many moving parts while also absent of the one punch pure luck haymaker possibility that can happen in any boxing match (especially in the heavy weight division) that the two are not comparable in my opinion.
Those kids not only had the pressure of the Russian team weighing on them. But they had the pressure of the entire nation, on US soil, with the world watching to try and manage. This was accompanied by the absolute misery of the economic recession and the over all low morale of the nation caused by the recession and the hostage crisis during that time. Not too mention this same Russian team had recently beaten them as if they weren’t even on the ice for the game. And they had also just decimated the NHL all star team days before. They beat them like they would a group of children against their parents who are all former professionals.
Douglas definitely upsetting Tyson ranks among the greatest upset in sports, but I don’t really think the two are on the same level. And that’s saying something. That’s saying a LOT.