for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Saquon Barkley's Future With The Giants

nyjuggernaut2 : 2/12/2020 1:08 pm
Just had a conversation with a fellow Giants fan at my work about Saquon. He was very disappointed when the Giants used the #2 pick on him, and at the time wanted them to get Sam Darnold instead. But our conversation got me thinking about Saquon's future with the team.

As it stands right now, Saquon has two years remaining on his rookie contract. I wouldn't be surprised if come this time next year we start hearing grumblings from Saquon's camp of him wanting to "get paid" and extend his deal, and hopefully it doesn't lead to possible hold-out threats. It's almost certain he is going to look for a contract close to $100 million (Zeke Elliot signed a 6yr/$90mil extenstion). It's also considered by many NFL "gurus" to be unwise for a team to have a good portion of their salary cap allocated toward the RB position, as history shows good RBs can be found all over the draft.

With that said, when the time comes to make a decision, do you think the Giants end up re-signing Saquon, letting him walk, or possibly trading him away next off-season?
I think they pick up his option and re-sign him to a long-term deal  
Anakim : 2/12/2020 1:11 pm : link
But it's way too premature to talk about this.
Theyíll end up re-signing him  
MookGiants : 2/12/2020 1:12 pm : link
but they shouldnt. Shame that the team is going to be bad for his wntire rookie deal, which is when he will be most valuable and peak performance.

I wouldnt even consider giving him a long term deal. Its almost certainly going to happen and almost certainly is going to be a poor decision in the long run.

Betting on someone being an exception to a rule with large money on the line is bad business.
You address it when it needs addressing  
UConn4523 : 2/12/2020 1:13 pm : link
and Elliots contract is actually decent, IMO. They can get out of him at need by his age 28 season if they had too.

If we have to pay Barkley it means heís earned it and producing. Not really a problem unless we are still working through a lot of bad contract by then.
They should trade him while he still has value.  
Default : 2/12/2020 1:14 pm : link
Instead the team is going to be in the same situation as the Cards with Johnson and the Rams with Gurley.
Except Barkley will probably be making something dumb like $20 mil.
I would pick up his option  
MookGiants : 2/12/2020 1:14 pm : link
get 5 years out of him and either franchise him for his 6th season or let him walk.

Long term deal wouldnt even be an option.

If he wants to hold out as a result, fine.
He'll be a Giant for the next 10 years and break  
Brown Recluse : 2/12/2020 1:18 pm : link
every Giants rushing record in history. He'll retire as the greatest RB in Giants history and one of the greatest in NFL history and no one will care about where he was drafted and how big his contract was.
It all depends on if  
Tony in Tampa : 2/12/2020 1:19 pm : link
Gettleman is still the GM when Barkley's contract comes up. If DG's here they will find away to resign him.
He will get a very lucrative second contract from the Giants  
LBH15 : 2/12/2020 1:23 pm : link
and at some point during it the front office will realize it was a mistake.

The Giants have to sign him to a second contract  
JoeyBigBlue : 2/12/2020 1:24 pm : link
To justify picking him at No. 2 unfortunately. Heís a good kid, a model citizen, and a really good player. We just need to hope for the best and pray he doesnít get hurt.
Saquan needs to play better  
Rudy5757 : 2/12/2020 1:32 pm : link
to make those demands. If he has another season like last season it was not worth a big contract. If he plays like he did as a rookie next season he can stake a claim to a better contract. He needs to be a complete player, his blocking is atrocious.

I think he will have a bounce back tremendous season and will get paid by the Giants when the time comes. He is the type of person you want on your team and a guy everyone should root for, he just needs to play like we know he can play. he's in his head too much right now.
"history shows good RBs can be found all over the draft."  
Mr. Bungle : 2/12/2020 1:39 pm : link
History also shows that good [all positions] can be found all over the draft.
Magic-8 Ball says ask again later  
jcn56 : 2/12/2020 1:44 pm : link
If at the end of this season he has another year like 2019, then nobody's going to be in the mood to discuss a huge extension for megabucks, injury or no injury.

If he looks more like 2018, then it's a question of extend now or let him hit the market and set a price later. Given the average RB's lifespan, I would imagine the latter wouldn't be the worst thing in the world (option + FT + possibly more later).
a little early  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 2/12/2020 1:45 pm : link
to make these judgments
The Giants have an all-pro  
LS : 2/12/2020 1:47 pm : link
caliber running back and people want to get rid of him as soon as possible. Interesting.
I'd trade him this offseason...  
bw in dc : 2/12/2020 1:52 pm : link
to avoid any future contracts. Perfect time to get something material back for him.

But if we don't do that, which, alas, we won't, I still wouldn't re-sign him. It's just such a waste to give out these big cap dollars to RBs. Sure, it may work. But I'd play the odds and assume it won't work much longer since RBs traditionally have the shortest shelf life in the NFL.
Signing him early like  
UConn4523 : 2/12/2020 2:06 pm : link
Dallas did with Elliot is a real and wise option. Elliottís extension only included $28m in guarantees, something completely glosses over in these discussions. Heís very cuttable before he turns 28 if it comes to that.

Anyone saying we shouldnít give him a contract doesnít know shit right now, to be perfectly honest. We donít even know what the new CBA will be, but hey, donít pay your best player under any circumstances, right?
Wow  
aGiantGuy : 2/12/2020 2:09 pm : link
Because roty wasnít enough to justify using the second pick on him... FFS if we had Quentin Nelson on this team, Solder would still suck. If we had Bradley Chubb, he wouldíve still tore his ACL and missed the whole year.

Saquon couldíve won MVP and you guys would still talk down on the pick. I hope my son becomes a receiver or a qb
Always good to think ahead...  
BillKo : 2/12/2020 2:10 pm : link
..but let's see the dynamic between Jones and SB this year, and how the offense evolves.

Lots of questions can be answered, and to be answered.

We could have two studs.
My question regarding his future is: will they field a winner  
The_Boss : 2/12/2020 2:17 pm : link
During his rookie deal?

Now, personally, I'd let him walk at the end of his deal, but Mara and whomever is the GM won't do it. I will say though that having your best player eating up the lion's share of your cap as a RB isn't wise. And I think that's exactly where we are heading....
either  
uther99 : 2/12/2020 2:35 pm : link
sign him to reasonable deal after 3rd year like cowboys did with Zeke or

pay 5th year option and then let him walk.
A lot can change in 2 years.  
Section331 : 2/12/2020 2:40 pm : link
I wasn't a fan of taking any RB at #2, but unless you can reel in an incredible haul, I wouldn't trade him. Let him play out his contract, and I think it's almost a certainty that, barring injury, that the Giants will execute their option.

That gives them 3 years to figure out if they want to pay him for his 2nd contract. He's a remarkable talent, but their is a limit to what I would pay a RB.
RE: Wow  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/12/2020 2:49 pm : link
In comment 14809836 aGiantGuy said:
Quote:
if we had Quentin Nelson on this team, Solder would still suck. If we had Bradley Chubb, he wouldíve still tore his ACL and missed the whole year.


Huh?

Solder would still suck, because he is past his prime. Why would Chubb have still gotten hurt?
Daivd Johnson and Todd Gurley recently signed  
ZogZerg : 2/12/2020 2:50 pm : link
massive deals.

Both teams are trying to figure a way out of them less then 2 years later.

I guess we need to see how Zeke does.
Lets  
jtfuoco : 2/12/2020 3:03 pm : link
See how he does in the new system the guy should be putting up ridicules numbers and his usage has been odd these past two seasons. I still feel the team should be built around him and have a offense like you see in Tennessee. In addition I would rather give him a 100M contract then somebody like OBJ.
I'd rather have this problem with Barkley  
Giants in 07 : 2/12/2020 3:05 pm : link
than have it with Darnold.

We really dodged a bullet there. And yet, the Darnold contingency still cannot get over it.
RE: Daivd Johnson and Todd Gurley recently signed  
bw in dc : 2/12/2020 3:18 pm : link
In comment 14809860 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
massive deals.

Both teams are trying to figure a way out of them less then 2 years later.

I guess we need to see how Zeke does.


I don't think Zeke was great this year. He looked less explosive...actually, he was less explosive. So he may be right at the point where he tips the wrong way.

There is just a lot of evidence that going big on the RB comp in this era is a misuse of cap funds. There are just more positions that are more critical for success.
What bullet did we dodge? Gettleman had no real interest  
LBH15 : 2/12/2020 3:20 pm : link
in finding a replacement for Manning in 2018.

Unless you want to say we dodged a bullet only to die a slower death by knife.
RE: I'd rather have this problem with Barkley  
BrettNYG10 : 2/12/2020 3:24 pm : link
In comment 14809868 Giants in 07 said:
Quote:
than have it with Darnold.

We really dodged a bullet there. And yet, the Darnold contingency still cannot get over it.


Darnold looked really good the back half of the year. I think him and Jones are in absolutely awful positions.
I'm glad we've got Jones ....  
Manny in CA : 2/12/2020 3:26 pm : link

AND Barkly on the team.

It's not sour grapes about Darnold, either; Jones just has more up-side - bigger, can run better, just as good an arm and more accurate.

The will resign him  
ron mexico : 2/12/2020 3:53 pm : link
He is too marketable to let go.

Wether or not he will be an integral part of a championship caliber team is another discussion
RE: What bullet did we dodge? Gettleman had no real interest  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2020 3:59 pm : link
In comment 14809879 LBH15 said:
Quote:
in finding a replacement for Manning in 2018.

Unless you want to say we dodged a bullet only to die a slower death by knife.


In retrospect, Gettleman was wise to not pick a QB.

And that's evident in the number of posters who wanted darnold suddenly changing their tune to say they wanted Nelson or Chubb.

If we selected Darnold, we're likely in worse shape than we are now, with a QB that will become an albatross to team building.
RE: He'll be a Giant for the next 10 years and break  
rsjem1979 : 2/12/2020 4:03 pm : link
In comment 14809787 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
every Giants rushing record in history. He'll retire as the greatest RB in Giants history and one of the greatest in NFL history and no one will care about where he was drafted and how big his contract was.


I sure as hell will care if those personal achievements are reached as a member of mediocre/bad teams.
If he was shuts a running back  
Giantimistic : 2/12/2020 4:05 pm : link
Then I would have to think about it. However if used correctly he is not only an all pro running back but also a major receiving threat. I think he can be a 1000 plus receiving yards.

Then it is worth it in my opinion.
RE: RE: What bullet did we dodge? Gettleman had no real interest  
LBH15 : 2/12/2020 4:21 pm : link
In comment 14809894 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14809879 LBH15 said:


Quote:


in finding a replacement for Manning in 2018.

Unless you want to say we dodged a bullet only to die a slower death by knife.



In retrospect, Gettleman was wise to not pick a QB.

And that's evident in the number of posters who wanted darnold suddenly changing their tune to say they wanted Nelson or Chubb.

If we selected Darnold, we're likely in worse shape than we are now, with a QB that will become an albatross to team building.


Well I think its more fair to say he just didn't pick a QB. But not because he had ultimate wisdom, but moreso because he was convinced Eli still had it so he had his QB and he went head over heels with Barkley.

Our guy wasn't at the firing range that day.
So..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2020 4:25 pm : link
you'd rather he pick a QB just for the fuck of it?? If the argument comes down to if Barkley should have been picked or Darnold or Rosen, it will be highly unlikely the QB option would be better.

Then again - I'm responding to a 2/20 poster on a shitload of threads questioning Gettleman.

It's like the standard dupe playbook move these days here.
RE: What bullet did we dodge? Gettleman had no real interest  
Section331 : 2/12/2020 4:31 pm : link
In comment 14809879 LBH15 said:
Quote:
in finding a replacement for Manning in 2018.

Unless you want to say we dodged a bullet only to die a slower death by knife.


Maybe he didn't think any of the QB's were the answer. If so, he may have been right.
RE: So..  
LBH15 : 2/12/2020 4:42 pm : link
In comment 14809918 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
you'd rather he pick a QB just for the fuck of it?? If the argument comes down to if Barkley should have been picked or Darnold or Rosen, it will be highly unlikely the QB option would be better.

Then again - I'm responding to a 2/20 poster on a shitload of threads questioning Gettleman.

It's like the standard dupe playbook move these days here.


Easy pal. I didn't say anything about just picking a QB. I said DG wasn't interested in any of these QBs because he was convinced he had his QB already.
RE: RE: What bullet did we dodge? Gettleman had no real interest  
LBH15 : 2/12/2020 4:43 pm : link
In comment 14809924 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 14809879 LBH15 said:


Quote:


in finding a replacement for Manning in 2018.

Unless you want to say we dodged a bullet only to die a slower death by knife.



Maybe he didn't think any of the QB's were the answer. If so, he may have been right.


Maybe. Or maybe he wasn't really interested in the question because he thought Eli was his answer already.
...  
christian : 2/12/2020 5:02 pm : link
QB is very important, but a good QB is made or ruined by the circumstances he is drafted into, not the draft position he was taken.

A good coach, a good line, and good weapons make a QB.

I cross my fingers Barkely stays healthy, and when he inevitably pulls down a huge contract, he's still healthy and proportionately productive.
funny  
Nick in LA : 2/12/2020 5:15 pm : link
everyone is quick to ship out the best player on our team. Solid plan.
RE: RE: RE: What bullet did we dodge? Gettleman had no real interest  
CromartiesKid21 : 2/12/2020 6:08 pm : link
In comment 14809928 LBH15 said:
Quote:
In comment 14809924 Section331 said:


Quote:


In comment 14809879 LBH15 said:


Quote:


in finding a replacement for Manning in 2018.

Unless you want to say we dodged a bullet only to die a slower death by knife.



Maybe he didn't think any of the QB's were the answer. If so, he may have been right.



Maybe. Or maybe he wasn't really interested in the question because he thought Eli was his answer already.


Exactly why you draft a RB #2 overall...he's supposed to be the missing piece for a playoff run
Why the negativity With Saquon?  
Bradshaw's Decal : 2/12/2020 6:33 pm : link
He has been as advertised, doing it on a bad team and not much to work with. He is a great player, teammate,leader and someone who real Giants fans should brag about. He has a couple of things to work on, sure, but who in the NFL doesn't ? Rebuild the defense, and I think we can win many playoff games with him. He is a special talent, enjoy it.
RE: Why the negativity With Saquon?  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2020 6:36 pm : link
In comment 14809969 Bradshaw's Decal said:
Quote:
He has been as advertised, doing it on a bad team and not much to work with. He is a great player, teammate,leader and someone who real Giants fans should brag about. He has a couple of things to work on, sure, but who in the NFL doesn't ? Rebuild the defense, and I think we can win many playoff games with him. He is a special talent, enjoy it.


That's really what should happen, but it won't. If he has a really good season and the team makes the playoffs or contends to the final week, people will bitch and moan about how much we'll have to pay him in another two years.

And then there will be some that will actually root against his success because they dug in so hard about him being a terrible pick and they've gone all-in on stabbing the shit out of Gettleman with pitchforks.
Fans don't root against Saquon Barkley's success  
LBH15 : 2/12/2020 6:53 pm : link
so that is just pure exaggeration on your part.

And Gettleman may not be well-liked and is used plenty as a punching bag in the media and here on BBI, but those views are also not unfounded. He has made plenty of mistakes in his short time here and his second as a GM.

Why do you feel the need to defend him so?
You sure..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2020 6:56 pm : link
have your finger on the pulse of the board being here for less than two weeks!!

Why would you sign up on a message board and in two weeks post almost exclusively about the job the GM is doing?

What page of the dupe playbook is that on?
Just between jobs right now  
LBH15 : 2/12/2020 6:59 pm : link
so I have a good amount of free time.

But its not that difficult to get a feel on here.
Sure...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2020 7:00 pm : link
and you just joined too.

Right.
And have posted plenty of non-Gettleman comments  
LBH15 : 2/12/2020 7:06 pm : link
It just seems you are on threads defending him a good bit so I guess we clash somewhat. Whatever.
Sure..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2020 7:12 pm : link
seems like you've made odd posts on threads where Gettleman isn't even mention. On the thread about PFF's positional ranking you came up with this gem:

Quote:
So Gettleman should pick a RB early
LBH15 : 4:50 pm : link : reply
because the supply of good ones isn't that plentiful this year?


Yet there was no discussion prior to that about Gettleman or even discussing RB's. It's less about defending Gettleman and more about pointing out your stupidity and obsession with posting about him.

For a fucking guy who supposedly just signed up 2 weeks ago.
I posted that because there was a similar dicussion  
LBH15 : 2/12/2020 7:33 pm : link
going on at same time another thread about positional value and DG's decision to go contrary to it with Barkley. That's all it was. Relax.
RE: RE: Wow  
section125 : 2/12/2020 7:46 pm : link
In comment 14809859 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14809836 aGiantGuy said:


Quote:


if we had Quentin Nelson on this team, Solder would still suck. If we had Bradley Chubb, he wouldíve still tore his ACL and missed the whole year.




Huh?

Solder would still suck, because he is past his prime. Why would Chubb have still gotten hurt?


Solder is NOT past his prime. OL last longer than any other position.
He sucks because he sucks, not his age.
RE: Signing him early like  
MookGiants : 2/12/2020 8:13 pm : link
In comment 14809831 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
Dallas did with Elliot is a real and wise option. Elliottís extension only included $28m in guarantees, something completely glosses over in these discussions. Heís very cuttable before he turns 28 if it comes to that.

Anyone saying we shouldnít give him a contract doesnít know shit right now, to be perfectly honest. We donít even know what the new CBA will be, but hey, donít pay your best player under any circumstances, right?


Saquon being our best player isn't a good thing. If in 2 years he's still the Giants best player, it will be a disaster.

Haha, ok man  
UConn4523 : 2/12/2020 8:18 pm : link
you are overly dramatic on just about every thread these days, even non-Giants threads.

If Barkley is our best player in 2 years still that means heís putting up 2000 yard seasons, which I thought would be a good thing until I read on here that itís actually bad.

And Iíll bring it up for the third time now - Ezekiel Elliottís contract is very team friendly and they have an easy out after his age 27 season. Heís the cheapest by a mile when it comes to him Cooper and Dak, and heís the most valuable. That contract is in no way shape or form preventing them from getting better elsewhere. They havenít paid the other 2 guys yet because itís those contracts that could be back breaking. Cooper isnít worth elite WR money and Dak sure as fuck isnít worth $35m per year.
what is really interesting  
mdc1 : 2/12/2020 8:26 pm : link
is if we start running a Patriots type of offense, there is really not a need for a Barkley type of RB. Just need a guy that can give a number we need.
That's..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2020 8:30 pm : link
fucking awesome!

Barkley being good is bad!! You can't make some of these takes up by those jilted by not drafting Darnold. As I said above, there are people openly rooting against Barkley - supposedly in the name of making the team better!!
Which  
MookGiants : 2/12/2020 8:33 pm : link
of the playoff teams this year best player was a running back?

The Giants roster needs to get to the point where the best player isnt a running back. Because it's not anywhere near valuable enough of a position to win big when your best player by far is your running back.

No one said barkley being good is bad. He just can't be the Giants best player if they want to truly contend. Right now he is, and that's resulted in 2 horrendous seasons.
and no one is openly rooting against him  
MookGiants : 2/12/2020 8:35 pm : link
I want him to succeed. I just have zero interest in signing him to a long term deal. Go ahead and bet on him being an exception to a rule, I would not do that. I'm sure the Giants will because they have fucked just about everything up with Gettleman steering the ship.
RE: RE: RE: Wow  
christian : 2/12/2020 8:36 pm : link
In comment 14810005 section125 said:
Quote:
Solder is NOT past his prime. OL last longer than any other position.
He sucks because he sucks, not his age.


Offensive lineman hitting the end of the road at or near their 10th NFL season isn't uncommon.

The history of Giants offensive lineman is littered with it.
I guess Barkley has killed some child  
section125 : 2/12/2020 8:37 pm : link
or committed armed robbery the way he is treated around here. All the Darnold apologists out in form.

Sad
...  
christian : 2/12/2020 8:40 pm : link
The Cowboys signed Dak to a very favorable deal. The Rams signed Gurley to a horror show.

If Barkley and his team sign-ups for the discount Dak did, that's good for the Giants.
RE: and no one is openly rooting against him  
Chris684 : 2/12/2020 8:47 pm : link
In comment 14810027 MookGiants said:
Quote:
I want him to succeed. I just have zero interest in signing him to a long term deal. Go ahead and bet on him being an exception to a rule, I would not do that. I'm sure the Giants will because they have fucked just about everything up with Gettleman steering the ship.


Zzzzzzz

RE: ...  
Joey in VA : 2/12/2020 8:58 pm : link
In comment 14810032 christian said:
Quote:
The Cowboys signed Dak to a very favorable deal. The Rams signed Gurley to a horror show.

If Barkley and his team sign-ups for the discount Dak did, that's good for the Giants.
uh when did this occur?
RE: ...  
Big Blue '56 : 2/12/2020 9:00 pm : link
In comment 14810032 christian said:
Quote:
The Cowboys signed Dak to a very favorable deal. The Rams signed Gurley to a horror show.

If Barkley and his team sign-ups for the discount Dak did, that's good for the Giants.


You had me combing the internet for a Dak signing. Not understanding your post.
RE: Which  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2020 9:04 pm : link
In comment 14810026 MookGiants said:
Quote:
of the playoff teams this year best player was a running back?

The Giants roster needs to get to the point where the best player isnt a running back. Because it's not anywhere near valuable enough of a position to win big when your best player by far is your running back.

No one said barkley being good is bad. He just can't be the Giants best player if they want to truly contend. Right now he is, and that's resulted in 2 horrendous seasons.


Ummm Derrick Henry. Pretty much dominated the first two games. And Mostert wants to know why you're dismissing his 200+ yard game.
And..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2020 9:07 pm : link
by the way, but a good case could be made that Williams deserved the MVP in the SB.

The funniest thing to me  
Leg of Theismann : 2/12/2020 9:25 pm : link
Is when people come on here and say ďBarkley isnít actually a good receiving back because he only averages 7.8 ypc, therefore heís not very ĎefficientíĒ . As though 1) a RBís ypc is at all comparable to a WRís ypc, and 2) they often quote his ypc number in 2018 forgetting that the Eli literally checked down to Barkley like every other pass play and itís impossible to have a high ypc when you have 80 receptions all within a couple yards of the LOS.

Like just use your fucking eyes to watch him play. If what youíre saying doesnít match up with what logically makes sense, think about the numbers youíre quoting in context of the player, the position, the team, and the scheme. He catches everything, makes at least one guy miss every time he catches the ball (when healthy), and even is a pretty damn good route runner when split out wide or in the slot.

Sorry just had to get that off my chest because Iíve seen so many places on this board people say Barkleyís overrated as a receiving back and the posters always quote some fantasy football number or some other random stat completely out of context.. Rant over.
RE: Which  
bw in dc : 2/12/2020 9:34 pm : link
In comment 14810026 MookGiants said:
Quote:
of the playoff teams this year best player was a running back?

The Giants roster needs to get to the point where the best player isnt a running back. Because it's not anywhere near valuable enough of a position to win big when your best player by far is your running back.

No one said barkley being good is bad. He just can't be the Giants best player if they want to truly contend. Right now he is, and that's resulted in 2 horrendous seasons.


This is largely true.

But differently put, Barkley is the best player by too large a margin over other critical positions that need to be better on this team: OL, QB, Edge, LB, TE, Corner, WR.

If those other positions are better, than having an upper level RB becomes less necessary. And the team is more balanced to compete.

That's why trading Barkley is really the best move. It would hopefully enable us to get more players to help bolster those other positions of greater need.

SB is at his highest asset value right now. So let's capitalize while there is still a market...
Good post. I was offering up the same theme  
LBH15 : 2/12/2020 9:40 pm : link
earlier this evening but was not getting anywhere in the conversation because posters cannot see such an event as additive.

Barkley is a really good RB (maybe even great) but the idea that he is indispensable is a shocking overstatement.
Let's..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2020 9:41 pm : link
bottom line this.

Is allocating $$ to the RB position detrimental to a team's success. Can teams succeed when they do that?
RE: RE: Signing him early like  
Leg of Theismann : 2/12/2020 9:44 pm : link
In comment 14810019 MookGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14809831 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


Dallas did with Elliot is a real and wise option. Elliottís extension only included $28m in guarantees, something completely glosses over in these discussions. Heís very cuttable before he turns 28 if it comes to that.

Anyone saying we shouldnít give him a contract doesnít know shit right now, to be perfectly honest. We donít even know what the new CBA will be, but hey, donít pay your best player under any circumstances, right?



Saquon being our best player isn't a good thing. If in 2 years he's still the Giants best player, it will be a disaster.


But Saquon being the best player on the team has to do with the rest of the team sucking ass. Why are you pointing a finger at him as though itís his fault for being good? I donít understand your logic. You want to get rid of our best player simply because our best player canít be a RB? So we get rid of Saquon and then we have no good players, or at least our best player wonít be a RB, and youíll be happy then? This will result in a super bowl championship I presume? How about we keep Barkley and build the rest of the team up to have other good players in addition?

Youíre acting like getting rid of Barkley will automatically result in us getting better players at every other position. It wonít. For instance we have like $80M in cap space, yet we wonít be able to sign our way to victory in one offseason. Because we canít just sign any and every good player, they have to actually become available In FA, not be tagged, and sign with us out of 32 possible teams. If weíre going to win weíre going to have to build through the draft no matter what. Getting rid of Barkley isnít going to automatically result in us signing all these amazing OL and DL and having the best lines on both sides of the ball simply because it looks that way on paper.

Barkley has proven to be one of the few RBs in the league worth a top 5 pick who can actually be a difference maker unto himself. Regardless of the position he plays, there are 8,000 different ways to win in the NFL. All of them Include at least having multiple good players at multiple positions.
RE: RE: Which  
section125 : 2/12/2020 9:45 pm : link
In comment 14810058 bw in dc said:
Quote:

That's why trading Barkley is really the best move. It would hopefully enable us to get more players to help bolster those other positions of greater need.

SB is at his highest asset value right now. So let's capitalize while there is still a market...


The Giants trading their best player is the right move? Think about what you just wrote...the Giants would be better trading their best player to get other lesser players.
Let's point out..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2020 9:48 pm : link
that the past two SB's have had two teams in the top 5 in salary allocation to RB's. And the other two teams were in the top 10 and top 15.
RE: Let's..  
bw in dc : 2/12/2020 9:55 pm : link
In comment 14810063 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
bottom line this.

Is allocating $$ to the RB position detrimental to a team's success. Can teams succeed when they do that?


I think you meant to say big $$.

Is it detrimental to success? Most of the time, yes.

There are always exceptions - if you are a great team and are in full luxury mode - but why risk it when you can pump money into other vital positions. Upgrade the OL, upgrade the pass rush, upgrade the secondary, etc. Don't those ideas just sound better for improving a football team?

We've been down this road many, many times. It's always easier to hedge on RB because you can usually count on the available supply. The examples seem endless...
I think  
jtfuoco : 2/12/2020 9:56 pm : link
its funny how so many Giants Fans are upset when Eli said that the fan base was unique when describing it during his retirement presser. Then one week later look how the same fans talk about the current best player on the roster now with more then half wanting to trade him or not pay him. I think Eli used the right words to describe us
This is the dumbest thread yet.  
since1925 : 2/12/2020 9:58 pm : link
Some poster "wouldn't be surprised" if there are big problems with Saquon in the future based on NOTHING. Wow, genius, what a take.
RE: RE: RE: Which  
bw in dc : 2/12/2020 10:01 pm : link
In comment 14810065 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14810058 bw in dc said:


Quote:



That's why trading Barkley is really the best move. It would hopefully enable us to get more players to help bolster those other positions of greater need.

SB is at his highest asset value right now. So let's capitalize while there is still a market...



The Giants trading their best player is the right move? Think about what you just wrote...the Giants would be better trading their best player to get other lesser players.


I expect most players to be less great than Barkley.

What would be better right now for this team? A very good, dependable OL? Or the current state of affairs - a great RB and piss poor OL?

You wouldn't trade Barkley to upgrade a position that will have a larger ripple effect for the team?
I'm not..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2020 10:06 pm : link
sure what "big money" is supposed to mean:

Quote:
I think you meant to say big $$.

Is it detrimental to success? Most of the time, yes.


Relative money says that all 4 SB teams the past two years have spent pretty well on the RB position, including SF who was #1 this season.

Worst was 14th place and the rest were 4th and 9th. I'm sure you are trying to make a point, but I'm not sure what it is. The #1 spending team was literally just in the SB.
RE: RE: Let's..  
Leg of Theismann : 2/12/2020 10:26 pm : link
In comment 14810073 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14810063 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


bottom line this.

Is allocating $$ to the RB position detrimental to a team's success. Can teams succeed when they do that?



I think you meant to say big $$.

Is it detrimental to success? Most of the time, yes.

There are always exceptions - if you are a great team and are in full luxury mode - but why risk it when you can pump money into other vital positions. Upgrade the OL, upgrade the pass rush, upgrade the secondary, etc. Don't those ideas just sound better for improving a football team?

We've been down this road many, many times. It's always easier to hedge on RB because you can usually count on the available supply. The examples seem endless...


Guys, winning a super bowl is not about having more money tied up in one position compared to another. The main thing is you just donít want a bunch of money either tied up in dead cap or in shitty players who arenít worth the big contracts you gave them. Barkley is a difference maker and a fantastic player, if you bet heís going to continue being a great player, you pay him and you donít worry about it. GREAT players are worth big money, regardless of their position (besides maybe punter, but even a great punter is worth the market price of a great punter). The exception is when they cause more trouble than their worth (like OBJ perhaps), but Barkley is not that guy. Heís an awesome leader and presence in the locker room.

If this past year in the NFL has taught us anything, itís that there is no ďone way to winĒ. Old school /new school /new age... doesnít matter, there are a million ways to skin a cat, just do what you do better than anyone else does their thing and you can win. One common denominator though: Having good players on your team regardless of position and using them correctly and efficiently is how you win football games.

Maybe QB is the one position where it especially helps your SB Chances to have a good player on a rookie deal (especially when a mediocre starting QB can cost like $40M ), but for the most part if you have a guy who is a top 5 player at his position, is a proven difference maker as opposed to just being an easily replaceable piece, and is a fantastic influence on the team from a leadership/intangibles standpoint, you pay that guy and keep him on your team. Getting rid of him or trading him doesnít guarantee that youíre replacing him and his cap number with equal or better value.

This team does not suck because of Barkley, nor will we suck because we paid him. Weíve sucked because of awful drafting mostly by Jerry Reese for a long long time and we suck because of the dead cap and 10s of millions of $ in resources tied up in shitty things: like ogletree, solder, the ghost of Odell Beckham, and this past season our backup QB (no offense Eli). Saquon freakiní Barkley and the $15m per year we pay him should be the least of our concerns, he will not be the end all be all reason why we donít win a super bowl, trust me.
Btw  
Leg of Theismann : 2/12/2020 10:27 pm : link
What about the half a decade between Bradshaw and Barkley? Those were the dark ages of the Giants RB position. We were lucky enough to land Bradshaw in the 7th round and he had a great career here, but the way people talk like you can just replace Barkleyís production with any old Joe (and iím not talking Joe Morris nor Joe Morrison, ha, anywayó) is just ignoring the fact that that position was awful for so many years here. We finally get that position right, heís one of the best in the league, and now everyone wants to trade the guy for unknown values.
Want to see how his health holds up  
Giant John : 2/12/2020 10:30 pm : link
Next season.
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 2/12/2020 10:31 pm : link
In comment 14810041 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14810032 christian said:


Quote:


The Cowboys signed Dak to a very favorable deal. The Rams signed Gurley to a horror show.

If Barkley and his team sign-ups for the discount Dak did, that's good for the Giants.



You had me combing the internet for a Dak signing. Not understanding your post.


Lord Almighty, in my defense I took a long flight today and am jet lagged.

I meant Zeke.

Elliot signed an incredibly favorable deal. When you add up what his rookie deal 4th and 5th year salary were, the Cowboys didn't actually commit too much more in guarantees.
I sure..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2020 10:31 pm : link
pine for the days of watching a plodding Peyton Hillis trudging in Big Blue!
Assuming he has a relatively healthy year...  
Milton : 2/13/2020 12:05 am : link
...and is as explosive as he was his rookie year, I would give him an extension. It's the right thing to do, he will have earned it.
RE: I'm not..  
bw in dc : 2/13/2020 12:07 am : link
In comment 14810078 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
sure what "big money" is supposed to mean:



Quote:


I think you meant to say big $$.

Is it detrimental to success? Most of the time, yes.



Relative money says that all 4 SB teams the past two years have spent pretty well on the RB position, including SF who was #1 this season.

Worst was 14th place and the rest were 4th and 9th. I'm sure you are trying to make a point, but I'm not sure what it is. The #1 spending team was literally just in the SB.


Re: 9ers cap situation with RBs. You failed to add context. So I will. As you know, McKinnon's has been hurt and they've had to invest in replacements. They aren't big costs, but compounded with McKinnon's contract, the numbers inflate overall.

But here is the key piece you overlook - the costs for the running back position includes BOTH RBs and FBs. And the 9ers have invested a big chunk in their FB, Juszczyk. And that spills into that total cost. But his value is in his blocking. He's essentially another lineman to their running game and that is an enormous asset. Money very wisely spent...

So, of the top ten teams with most money spent on RBs, only 3 made the playoffs. Those teams were the 9ers, Pats, and Ravens. Throw the Pats out because, well, they are the Pats and they can afford to take luxury chances. And now we have more color on the 9ers situation. Incidentally, McKinnon's cap hit in 2020 is only $8.8M.

Of the next ten teams with most money spent on RBs, 6 made the playoffs.

Of the bottom twelve teams, 3 made the playoffs.

So you can see where the distribution is across the league. Essentially, the majority of the teams who made the playoffs were not in the top ten in RB spend. And 3 made it in the bottom end. The Chiefs, btw, were 20th in RB spend...

What do you..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/13/2020 12:23 am : link
mean "they aren't big costs"??

The Niners have the most allocation to the RB position in the NFL.

That, by definition, is the largest cost out there.
And..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/13/2020 12:25 am : link
the Chiefs were 14th in RB spend in the NFL
RE: And..  
bw in dc : 2/13/2020 12:38 am : link
In comment 14810123 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the Chiefs were 14th in RB spend in the NFL


I was using both 2019 and 2020 Spotrac data. I wanted to see McKinnon's cap hit in 2020.

In 2019, the Chiefs are 17th. They are going to be 20th in 2020...pending the outcome of free agency.
Top Spend by Position. - ( New Window )
RE: What do you..  
bw in dc : 2/13/2020 12:46 am : link
In comment 14810122 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
mean "they aren't big costs"??

The Niners have the most allocation to the RB position in the NFL.

That, by definition, is the largest cost out there.


The total costs are high, but they haven't over-invested in replacements for McKinnon. They have just spread the costs over more bodies in their RBBC format.

And they thought highly enough of Juscczyk to make him an old school blocking FB. Essentially another blocker. An unconventional move in today's game...
Look  
aGiantGuy : 2/13/2020 1:23 am : link
Some of you guys take analytics way too close to heart. Statistics are just data that needs to be interpreted, it doesnít prove anything and canít be used as a proof.

The Giants had success with Rb by committee before, but before that they had a decade of success with Tiki Barber. Trends in the NFL are constantly cycling. Positional value is not the freakin Bible and even if it was, it should be questioned.

Belicheck traded away Chandler Jones in his prime for a second rd pick, a trade that just spits in the face of the whole positional value concept and just look where those teams are.
I repeat, positional value is not gospel.
RE: Let's point out..  
WalterSobchak : 2/13/2020 6:01 am : link
In comment 14810066 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
that the past two SB's have had two teams in the top 5 in salary allocation to RB's. And the other two teams were in the top 10 and top 15.


The Rams may have been top 5 with rb salary . But who is the other team ? Pats are not top 5 nor the chiefs ? Maybe the 49ers since they signed Mckinnon and he never played? Either way , go ask Les Snead about how the Rams feel about investing all that $ into a rb who has an arthritic knee. Also Gurley was good in the regualar season in 2018 but contributed very little on their run to the Superbowl.
Rams would love to get out of the Gurley deal , one of the all time dumbest nfl contracts (signed him with 2 years left on his rookie deal).
49ers are paying Mostert less then 3mill per and he signed the deal after the nfc champ game.
Barkley is good but it was a dumb pick with how many holes we had to fill and an oline that was/is awful. Like someone living in a shanty and spending all their money on Lexus.
Ohh no the Gurley deal  
UConn4523 : 2/13/2020 6:49 am : link
you can find an example of anything to counter an argument in the nfl. There arenít 20 deals like Gurleys, not sure why people post as such. His knee went, it happens. But they are in cap hell for other reasons too - care to talk about all the other players they signed and traded away picks for? They shouldnít have paid Goff, thatís a problem bigger than Gurley as well.

And the Chiefs have the best QB in the league - of course they donít need to go out and spend a ton on a RB. That said Iím not convinced they donít pay Hunt if he didnít fuck himself over.
RE: RE: Let's point out..  
aGiantGuy : 2/13/2020 7:17 am : link
In comment 14810146 WalterSobchak said:
Quote:
In comment 14810066 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


that the past two SB's have had two teams in the top 5 in salary allocation to RB's. And the other two teams were in the top 10 and top 15.



The Rams may have been top 5 with rb salary . But who is the other team ? Pats are not top 5 nor the chiefs ? Maybe the 49ers since they signed Mckinnon and he never played? Either way , go ask Les Snead about how the Rams feel about investing all that $ into a rb who has an arthritic knee. Also Gurley was good in the regualar season in 2018 but contributed very little on their run to the Superbowl.
Rams would love to get out of the Gurley deal , one of the all time dumbest nfl contracts (signed him with 2 years left on his rookie deal).
49ers are paying Mostert less then 3mill per and he signed the deal after the nfc champ game.
Barkley is good but it was a dumb pick with how many holes we had to fill and an oline that was/is awful. Like someone living in a shanty and spending all their money on Lexus.


With Gurley healthy the Rams are a top 3 team in the NFL, without Gurley they canít even make the playoffs. If Gurley doesnít deserve a contract, who does??

Thatís like me saying when Cam Newton is healthy the Panthers are a playoff team, now that Cam has been consistently hurt for 3 years and theyíve been a bottom dwelling team for most of that period, they shouldíve never gave Newton that 5 yr contract. The contract was a waste.

Your example has nothing to do with the position that is being played. All positions get hurt, you donít want to sign anyone to a long term contract that is going to get hurt.

You pay your best players, or you play like Belicheck and pay who you want to pay with your inside info. But you live and die by that as well
RE: Btw  
LBH15 : 2/13/2020 7:18 am : link
In comment 14810086 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
What about the half a decade between Bradshaw and Barkley? Those were the dark ages of the Giants RB position. We were lucky enough to land Bradshaw in the 7th round and he had a great career here, but the way people talk like you can just replace Barkleyís production with any old Joe (and iím not talking Joe Morris nor Joe Morrison, ha, anywayó) is just ignoring the fact that that position was awful for so many years here. We finally get that position right, heís one of the best in the league, and now everyone wants to trade the guy for unknown values.


That time period also coincides when Reese was basically the worst drafter in the NFL. And the RB position did not escape that fact. He used plenty of picks on RBs and they all pretty much sucked and had major flaws.
i'd consider trading saquon for the right return  
MM_in_NYC : 2/13/2020 7:38 am : link
with this roster combined with recent results i'd consider trading anyone if i could do so to improve the team overall.

that doesn't mean i think sb isn't good.

it also doesn't mean team's can't win with money invested in rb.

it does mean that you need to be much better constructing the rest of your roster at the traditionally higher priced positions.

and that is harder.

and so it does increase your risk of not attaining the success we seek.

so i am wary of giving a rb a massive, long term contract. yet, we have sb on our team now and we can't squander that.

unless we can get an overwhelming offer now i don't view this as decision we need to make until after his 4th year - i don't think the original post correctly values the 5th year option we have.

let's judge where our roster is then. i'd play hard ball of this.

RE: Ohh no the Gurley deal  
Chris684 : 2/13/2020 8:07 am : link
In comment 14810150 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
you can find an example of anything to counter an argument in the nfl. There arenít 20 deals like Gurleys, not sure why people post as such. His knee went, it happens. But they are in cap hell for other reasons too - care to talk about all the other players they signed and traded away picks for? They shouldnít have paid Goff, thatís a problem bigger than Gurley as well.

And the Chiefs have the best QB in the league - of course they donít need to go out and spend a ton on a RB. That said Iím not convinced they donít pay Hunt if he didnít fuck himself over.


Gurley's knee has also been an issue since college.

Saquon's knees are not.
I think the problem is that Barkleys talent has not  
Rudy5757 : 2/13/2020 10:11 am : link
made this team better and thats why a lot of people still have a hard time with him being picked where he was. There are still holes in his game and for a guy that was picked #2 overall and getting paid like he's already done it he needed to be better out of the gate. Great stats his 1st year but he can't block. Coaching and play calling have not done him any justice either.

I dont think the question is whether the team would be better with Darnold because I dont think Gettlemen and crew thought he was a franchise QB or he would have been the pick. I think the question is would this team have been better picking up a positional player like Nelson or even trading the pick for multiple picks. I think that answer is yes.

I don't hate Barkley, I got my kids Barkley Jerseys because he is the kind of kid you want them to root for but the RB position was not the problem on this team. the guys blocking for him continue to be the problem. the lack of players on D are the problem. 1 offensive lineman can improve the whole unit. We had arguably the best WR and barkley in 2018 and the O still sucked. In 2017 we were 21st in total O, in 2018 we were 16th. the Colts on the other hand went from 31st in 2017 to 6th in 2018. Is it all because of nelson no, but it cant be ignored.
RE: Ohh no the Gurley deal  
christian : 2/13/2020 10:48 am : link
In comment 14810150 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
you can find an example of anything to counter an argument in the nfl. There arenít 20 deals like Gurleys, not sure why people post as such.


If you look at the top 10 AAV for running backs, and subtract the guys on rookie deals you have plenty of cautionary tales.

Gurley, Bell, David Johnson, Devonta Freeman, and McKinnon are all deals that don't look great now.

We'll see if Elliot can buck the trend.

There just aren't a lot of running backs that are big time players 5+ years.

You can find individuals who were, but in my view there are many more who fizzle out.
RE: RE: Ohh no the Gurley deal  
WalterSobchak : 2/13/2020 12:28 pm : link
In comment 14810343 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14810150 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


you can find an example of anything to counter an argument in the nfl. There arenít 20 deals like Gurleys, not sure why people post as such.



If you look at the top 10 AAV for running backs, and subtract the guys on rookie deals you have plenty of cautionary tales.

Gurley, Bell, David Johnson, Devonta Freeman, and McKinnon are all deals that don't look great now.

We'll see if Elliot can buck the trend.

There just aren't a lot of running backs that are big time players 5+ years.

You can find individuals who were, but in my view there are many more who fizzle out.


Yup whole lot of cautionary tales . And just to be clear , the reason Gurleys contract was so dumb for the Rams was he had 2+ full seasons of cheap control when they extended him. Why wouldn't they wait at least till one year left on such a fragile position ? If they had ,his knee condition would be known and they could have had him cheap or just let go. I get keeping players happy but it was a poorly thought out move by LA
Never has so much worry or concern been made  
djm : 2/13/2020 12:32 pm : link
Over such a great player here with the giants. Chris in philly says it best. You guys are exhausting.
RE: Never has so much worry or concern been made  
PatersonPlank : 2/13/2020 12:58 pm : link
In comment 14810464 djm said:
Quote:
Over such a great player here with the giants. Chris in philly says it best. You guys are exhausting.


+1. I agree. Its amazing to me that a top, premier talent like Barkley (who is also a good citizen and Giant) generates this much dislike. He is an awesome player who is constantly striking fear in the defense (really our only offensive player that does). Even in 2019, when he was out for 3.5 games and injured for another 4, he still got to 1k yards rushing. Plus he's a great receiver.

As for he hasn't turned the team around single handedly, who can? There are 22 players out there. Did Jones turn us around? You need to pick up a number of good players to turn it around, and Barkley is the key piece to that puzzle (along with Jones).
Christian  
UConn4523 : 2/13/2020 1:16 pm : link
yes, those are examples of some bad contracts. Now apply that to the rest of the roster, especially at more expensive positions. There are a lot there too.

David Johnson is somewhat a victim of circumstance as well. That entire team changed, Rosen stunk at getting him the ball (coupled with the old Offense which was terribly contracted) so they just wasted signing him. I don't think he fell off a cliff, its just mis management at its finest. His contract also isn't backbreaking like many would lead you to believe RB contracts are. Generally speaking the guaranteed money is a lot lower than most other positions (check them vs WR's for a good laugh) so cutting them is much easier if need be.

Again, look at Elliotts contract. Its unbelievably flexible for Dallas to get out of.
Giants should  
AdamBrag : 2/13/2020 1:28 pm : link
Bring in another RB and decrease Saquon's snaps by a good chunk. His value for his next contract will be lower, but his longevity will be longer.
granted this is almost a year old  
UConn4523 : 2/13/2020 1:30 pm : link
and is subjective, but it breaks down some absurd contracts that are being handed out across the league. 1 RB is on it (unless i missed another).
Worst contract for each team - ( New Window )
sorry  
UConn4523 : 2/13/2020 1:31 pm : link
there are 2.
On the Zeke contract...  
bw in dc : 2/13/2020 1:52 pm : link
keep in mind Jerry had some leverage there because of Zeke's off the field idiocy. Team Zeke knew they couldn't play total hardball due to the possibility Zeke was a suspension risk...

So I wouldn't call that contract a benchmark, in terms of Dallas's flexibility, going forward.
its a fair point  
UConn4523 : 2/13/2020 1:59 pm : link
but he's also a top 3 RB in the league so not that many would even qualify to surpass that anyway. Say we had to pay Barkley this year, I don't think we'd be looking at doubling the guarantees or anything.
RE: Christian  
christian : 2/13/2020 3:48 pm : link
In comment 14810525 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
yes, those are examples of some bad contracts. Now apply that to the rest of the roster, especially at more expensive positions. There are a lot there too.

David Johnson is somewhat a victim of circumstance as well. That entire team changed, Rosen stunk at getting him the ball (coupled with the old Offense which was terribly contracted) so they just wasted signing him. I don't think he fell off a cliff, its just mis management at its finest. His contract also isn't backbreaking like many would lead you to believe RB contracts are. Generally speaking the guaranteed money is a lot lower than most other positions (check them vs WR's for a good laugh) so cutting them is much easier if need be.

Again, look at Elliotts contract. Its unbelievably flexible for Dallas to get out of.


Just to clarify, my point isn't that RB contracts are prohibitive.

My point is that many of the higher paid (granted this a relative figure to other positions) RBs haven't produced after getting a big pay raise.

I don't have any misgivings about extending Barkley. I just don't expect him to buck the trend of recent RBs who tail off.

I also hope the Giants copy the Cowboys and construct a deal they can exit if Barkley's production declines in the same way as the players I mentioned.
barkely was touted as a generational talent  
Platos : 2/13/2020 3:49 pm : link
like emmitt smith and barry sanders.

if he's either of those guys and stays healthy why wouldn't you want him after the rookie contract? money be damned.
RE: barkely was touted as a generational talent  
Default : 2/13/2020 3:58 pm : link
In comment 14810660 Platos said:
Quote:
like emmitt smith and barry sanders.

if he's either of those guys and stays healthy why wouldn't you want him after the rookie contract? money be damned.


Because he isnít. And as great as Barry Sanders was, and Barkley is not Barry Sanders, Sanders won how many playoff games?
But I guess in Giants land jersey sales and how nice a guy is, is more important than winning.
Jesus Christ  
UConn4523 : 2/13/2020 4:23 pm : link
with the Barry Sanders playoff wins - do you think before you type? Can you post Emmitt Smiths playoff wins? Iím guessing you wonít...
RE: Jesus Christ  
Default : 2/13/2020 4:40 pm : link
In comment 14810693 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
with the Barry Sanders playoff wins - do you think before you type? Can you post Emmitt Smiths playoff wins? Iím guessing you wonít...


I wonít because despite what the stats say Emmitt Smith isnít in the same league as Barry Sanders...
RE: Jesus Christ  
Default : 2/13/2020 4:40 pm : link
In comment 14810693 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
with the Barry Sanders playoff wins - do you think before you type? Can you post Emmitt Smiths playoff wins? Iím guessing you wonít...


I wonít because despite what the stats say Emmitt Smith isnít in the same league as Barry Sanders...
Sweet out there buddy  
UConn4523 : 2/13/2020 5:42 pm : link
knew you didnít have it in you.
Iíll give you the real answer  
UConn4523 : 2/13/2020 5:42 pm : link
if the Lions drafted Joe Montana they would have fucked that up too.
RE: Iíll give you the real answer  
aGiantGuy : 2/13/2020 5:48 pm : link
In comment 14810758 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
if the Lions drafted Joe Montana they would have fucked that up too.


Ha!
He's a special player and citizen  
JonC : 2/13/2020 6:05 pm : link
I believe he'll develop into a consistent top flight offensive weapon. As such, I have no problem paying him, especially as a beloved Giant.

I have a huge problem paying open market dollars to Leonard Williams, Nate Solder, Marcus Golden, or Golden Tate, to name a few.

Spend smart, don't shop hungry and there will be plenty of cap space. No reason the aforementioned caliber of players should be able to hold NYG over the barrel.
...  
christian : 2/13/2020 7:51 pm : link
I think the max reasonable window for big time production from a running back is 4-5 years. And then you nearly always see it slip.

The Tiki Barber, Adrian Peterson, Emmit Smith types are major outliers.

I don't mind investing a lot in Barkley in years 4 and 5, and in exchange for that securing control in years 6 and 7 with the ability to get out cheaply.
Give him the 5 year deal now  
Prude : 2/14/2020 12:14 pm : link
This offseason. Extend him for 5 years sothat he is locked up until he is 29 or 30 years old. Give yourself and easy out for the last year or two of the contract. He is already getting paid like a top rb because of his draft position. He is still going to command big money at the end of his 4(or 5) year rookie contract, despite the fact that his production is likely to drop dramatically around age 30. Give him 80-90m now, lock him up for his prime years and then let some other team pay for his contracts after 30 years old.
RE: RE: barkely was touted as a generational talent  
Now Mike in MD : 2/14/2020 12:44 pm : link
In comment 14810668 Default said:
Quote:
In comment 14810660 Platos said:


Quote:


like emmitt smith and barry sanders.

if he's either of those guys and stays healthy why wouldn't you want him after the rookie contract? money be damned.



Because he isnít. And as great as Barry Sanders was, and Barkley is not Barry Sanders, Sanders won how many playoff games?
But I guess in Giants land jersey sales and how nice a guy is, is more important than winning.


How in the world can say what Barkley will be relative to sanders after two years? It's impossible.

And this constant harping on Saners' career record is just stupid. He made his team much better than it would have been without him. There's no debate on this. But ultimately football is a team sport, and no single player can completely overcome significant shortcomings of his surrounding cast. Archie Manning has a career record of 35-101. So what?
Detroits record with Barry Sanders was much better than  
PatersonPlank : 2/14/2020 12:48 pm : link
before him, or since. Sure they had trouble in the playoffs primarily because he was carrying them, and in the playoffs you play the top teams. However its stupid and uneducated to denigrate his influence on Detroit.
It means Archie provided poor  
UConn4523 : 2/14/2020 12:50 pm : link
positional value. QBs werenít worth big money back then!
RE: Give him the 5 year deal now  
Milton : 2/15/2020 2:16 am : link
In comment 14811188 Prude said:
Quote:
This offseason.
The CBA prevents it. For drafted players, rookie contracts can only be extended after three years (undrafted players can be extended after only two).
p.s.--This is why I believe that extending players after three years who have outperformed their rookie contracts is the right thing to do. The players sacrificed the right to demand extensions after only a year or two so the flipside should be the owners willingness to give extensions after three (assuming reasonable demands and stellar performance).
RE: Detroits record with Barry Sanders was much better than  
Milton : 2/15/2020 2:23 am : link
In comment 14811212 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
before him, or since. Sure they had trouble in the playoffs primarily because he was carrying them, and in the playoffs you play the top teams. However its stupid and uneducated to denigrate his influence on Detroit.
Barry Sanders was great with the ball in his hands, but he couldn't block or pass-catch and was taken off the field inside the opponent's ten yard line for that reason. He created as many problems for his offensive coordinator as he did for opposing team's defensive coordinators. He is a poor comparison to Barkley.
RE: Iíll give you the real answer  
ron mexico : 2/15/2020 6:42 am : link
In comment 14810758 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
if the Lions drafted Joe Montana they would have fucked that up too.


Haha. I was thinking the same thing.

The problem isnít Saquon, itís the guy and the front office who drafted him two overall
Saquon Barkleyís Future  
johnboyw : 2/15/2020 6:53 am : link
I donít think itís so much a question of do the Giants want to resign him because Iím sure they do. I think itís more a question of whether Barkley will wants to stay with them.
If Gettleman and company donít put out an OL that can open holes for him and allow him to carry the offense like he is capable of THIS YEAR, he may decide that this is not the place for him and move on to a team that is more committed to capitalizing on his significant skill set.
The Barkley pick  
Josh in the City : 2/15/2020 7:25 am : link
was as bad as it gets when it was made. You donít pick a RB at two overall unless thatís the missing piece to your SB team (but then you wouldnít be picking there in the first place). I said it at the time and I stand by it now. Signing him to a monster extension would just exacerbate the issue instead of allocating those resources to where theyíre really needed (building the trenches). People here can still defend the pick but theyíd still be downright wrong. And btw, same goes for signing Leonard Williams to a $15 mm/yr contract just to justify that absurdly foolish trade.
Back to the Corner