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Williams, Cleveland Plain Dealer on Isaiah Simmons

Big Blue '56 : 2/13/2020 9:36 am
Quote:

“Isaiah Simmons, 6-4, 230 pounds, Clemson, junior

When discussing Clemson’s do-it-all defender, it is important to first understand how he was deployed by the Tigers this season.

Check these numbers out:

* Of his 822 snaps this season, Simmons lined up in the box as a traditional linebacker 299 times (36 percent), according to Pro Football Focus.

* He served as Clemson’s deep free safety 132 times (16 percent), and as a defensive end or edge rusher on 116 snaps (14 percent).

* Most impressively, Simmons lined up in the slot as a souped-up nickel corner 262 times (32 percent), proving more than capable of defending the nation’s best tight ends and slot receivers in space.

As the numbers show, Simmons can play anywhere. Which is why defining him as a linebacker or safety is pointless.

Pro Football Focus gave Simmons a 92 coverage grade this season, meaning he locked up the nation’s best tight ends and slot receivers. He scored 85 overall or higher in pass rushing, run defense and tackling. Simply, he doesn’t have a weakness.

There isn’t much to dislike. As a safety, he is the best in his class. The same can be said as a linebacker. At his size, he projects as an every-down player who can do it all.

Usually, Simmons spent his Saturday afternoons overpowering blockers and proving too fast and too big for ball carriers to juke him. Simmons is as much a “can’t miss” prospect as there is in this class.”



Sy?


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He's exactly what our slow  
Metnut : 2/13/2020 9:42 am : link
defense needs. We've been abused over the middle, by screens, and by TEs for a while. Adding an elite rangy player is the type of weapon our coaching staff could really unleash. We already have the bulk in front to utilize him.

No reason why we can't have either Simmons, Young or a trade-down in this draft.
If he is gonna be anything like Deion Jones  
Chris684 : 2/13/2020 9:45 am : link
at the next level.

Bring him in.
What is very exciting about those numbers  
Jay on the Island : 2/13/2020 9:46 am : link
he lined up as an edge rusher just on 14% of the snaps yet he still recorded 7 sacks.
A versatile player like this  
Oscar : 2/13/2020 9:49 am : link
With a coach like Judge who is going to adjust his scheme to fit the opponent/situation, seems like a match made in heaven.
sounds like a faster Polamalu  
giants#1 : 2/13/2020 9:49 am : link
likely not as physical, but a hybrid LB/S that you need to account for on every play. I've seen lots of comparisons here to Peppers/Collins, but he's been far better in coverage than those two and arguably better moving forward as a pass rusher.
He's the piece  
GoDeep13 : 2/13/2020 9:50 am : link
That makes Graham's system and philosophy work. He is the definition of "Multiple". He can do literally anything you could ask a defender to do on the football field.
Those stats are very impressive.  
DonnieD89 : 2/13/2020 9:51 am : link
I’ve heard the argument that Simmons is a similar player to Peppers, being utilize the same way. My question to everyone is can both Peppers and Simmons play on the same field together. Would that be an advantage?
RE: Those stats are very impressive.  
giants#1 : 2/13/2020 9:56 am : link
In comment 14810269 DonnieD89 said:
Quote:
I’ve heard the argument that Simmons is a similar player to Peppers, being utilize the same way. My question to everyone is can both Peppers and Simmons play on the same field together. Would that be an advantage?


I'm not a CFB expert, but if Simmons can competently play (some) FS as a true centerfielder then I don't see why not. Can also probably play in the big nickel together with Love playing FS.
I'm Warming To Simmons At 4th Overall  
Trainmaster : 2/13/2020 9:56 am : link
if no trade down is offered. I know I'm in the minority, but in the admittedly limited number of games I've watched for each of them, I like Simmons over Young.
If he’s in fact the real and versatile goods,  
Big Blue '56 : 2/13/2020 9:59 am : link
it would seem to me that he ought to be a slam dunk at 4, imv
I love Simmons, but he does have a weakness. When you put him on  
Ira : 2/13/2020 10:01 am : link
inside lb, he'll be blocked out of the play by an offensive lineman. But because of his versatility, you can put him in the slot or at safety on short yardage plays.
At no.4 I want a potential All-Pro  
90.Cal : 2/13/2020 10:03 am : link
LB, Edge, corner or safety... not a guy who is just kind of good at all 4 of those spots.

So can he just play all 4 spots or can he play all 4 spots at potentially an all pro level? If he can then picking him would be a no-brainer. I loved watching Simmons the past 2 years but projecting him to the next level has been challenging, for me at least.

I'd still take the top OL in the draft at 4 or trade back, getting an extra pick and still getting one of Lamb or Jeudy if that's even possible.
Simmons in coverage was  
section125 : 2/13/2020 10:05 am : link
astounding. Simmons at the LOS not so much.

For 230 lbs he can move - fast and agile.

If Graham can place him where the big OL cannot get to him he would be just what they need. A fast LB that can cover anywhere and attack the QB from anywhere, remarkably so.

Is he the same style player as Peppers? IDK. He is bigger and taller. If he can truly play FS in the NFL, then he'd be a great foil with Peppers.
I said it last month  
AdamBrag : 2/13/2020 10:06 am : link
and I doubt I change my mind before the draft, I strongly think this is who the Giants will draft.
His versatility has been mentioned numerous times  
Biteymax22 : 2/13/2020 10:08 am : link
But the reality is one question needs to be answered, can he do those things at the NFL level?

Is he stout enough to play inside in the NFL?

Is he rangy enough to play single high?

Is he quick enough to play in the slot?

Will he be able to effectively pass rush? Remember prior to 2019 he had 2.5 career sacks, and only one of his 2019 sacks came against a ranked opponent.


While I'd love an impact linebacker in the worst ways, I think there are some questions about Simmons that are going to pop up closer to the draft. He'll still be a top 10 pick, but I wouldn't be shocked if he goes closer to 10 than 4.
Sorry, but  
Jan in DC : 2/13/2020 10:11 am : link
please take those statistics with a grain of salt. Clemson didn't play any competition until their final two games of the season.
I've seen the criticism  
Dr. D : 2/13/2020 10:13 am : link
that he's only 230 lbs. But he's also only 21 yrs old.

He's listed as 6'4". Is it not possible, I would say likely, for him to add some bulk with NFL training (without losing too much speed)?
I like him as well  
UConn4523 : 2/13/2020 10:16 am : link
and i'm confident that a creative coaching staff can use him to confuse offenses - we haven't had a guy with his ability in forever.

I realize his shortcomings and maybe 4 will be a bit too high. But you can work on his faults, you can't teach what he already has.
RE: Sorry, but  
barens : 2/13/2020 10:17 am : link
In comment 14810291 Jan in DC said:
Quote:
please take those statistics with a grain of salt. Clemson didn't play any competition until their final two games of the season.


Texas A&M and South Carolina...not top of the line teams, but 2 SEC teams, in addition to their ACC schedule.
I AM NOT comparing him to LT  
Dr. D : 2/13/2020 10:20 am : link
but just as far as playing weight/height: LT was listed as 6'3" 238 lbs.

I really don't know, but would it be inconceivable for Simmons to put on 5-8 lbs of muscle on his 6'4" frame (without losing too much speed)?

RE: What is very exciting about those numbers  
allstarjim : 2/13/2020 10:22 am : link
In comment 14810260 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
he lined up as an edge rusher just on 14% of the snaps yet he still recorded 7 sacks.


I looked at all his sacks this year. IIRC, all but one he came in unblocked. There was one sack he bent the edge well. I wanted to see more of that.
RE: RE: Sorry, but  
section125 : 2/13/2020 10:25 am : link
In comment 14810298 barens said:
Quote:
In comment 14810291 Jan in DC said:


Quote:


please take those statistics with a grain of salt. Clemson didn't play any competition until their final two games of the season.



Texas A&M and South Carolina...not top of the line teams, but 2 SEC teams, in addition to their ACC schedule.


And he looked very good vs LSU
Great college stats...  
Tark10 : 2/13/2020 10:25 am : link
What happens when he is playing in the NFL? "Superman" may be mortal...
His scouting reports sounds  
Dnew15 : 2/13/2020 10:27 am : link
a lot like Jabrill Peppers.

If Simmons returned punts - it would sound exactly like Peppers.
I don't get the Collins/Peppers comps  
giants#1 : 2/13/2020 10:30 am : link
They are in-the-box safeties because they are strong against the run, but are mediocre (at best) in coverage. Covering TEs, and even slot WRs, sounds like a strength of Simmons who also happens to excel coming off the edge. Sounds more like a bigger Honey Badger than Peppers.
RE: Great college stats...  
UConn4523 : 2/13/2020 10:32 am : link
In comment 14810308 Tark10 said:
Quote:
What happens when he is playing in the NFL? "Superman" may be mortal...


Can't you say that about anyone? When he enters the NFL he will have to continue to get better, just like any other college player...
Graham and Flores wanted minkah Fitzpatrick to play all over the place  
Platos : 2/13/2020 10:33 am : link
and he wanted a trade in only his second year.

maybe Simmons won't care what his actual title is. he's definitely talented. does he show instincts?
RE: His scouting reports sounds  
section125 : 2/13/2020 10:33 am : link
In comment 14810309 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
a lot like Jabrill Peppers.

If Simmons returned punts - it would sound exactly like Peppers.


Nor does he play RB, as Peppers could.

While the skill set sounds the same, they are totally different. I would say Peppers is a safety that can play at the LoS. Simmons is a Safety/LB hybrid that can play LB and he is much bigger and because of his size covers TEs better.
RE: RE: Great college stats...  
section125 : 2/13/2020 10:35 am : link
In comment 14810314 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 14810308 Tark10 said:


Quote:


What happens when he is playing in the NFL? "Superman" may be mortal...



Can't you say that about anyone? When he enters the NFL he will have to continue to get better, just like any other college player...


Of course, this is true, just like many CFB players are underrated and overlooked and become stars...
He's the guy I want  
Eman11 : 2/13/2020 10:38 am : link
Maybe with a little luck the Giants can even trade back a spot or two to a QB needing team, pick up whatever picks they can and still grab him at 5-7.

If not, I'd still want him at 4.
Metnut  
Buzzard64 : 2/13/2020 10:49 am : link
"We have been abused over the middle by screens and tight ends for a while." That is a huge understatement. We have been abused over the middle by screens and tight ends for DECADES. If Simmons can be the solution to stopping this deficiency then draft him, it would immediately improve our Defense by leaps and bounds.
RE: Metnut  
section125 : 2/13/2020 10:59 am : link
In comment 14810344 Buzzard64 said:
Quote:
"We have been abused over the middle by screens and tight ends for a while." That is a huge understatement. We have been abused over the middle by screens and tight ends for DECADES. If Simmons can be the solution to stopping this deficiency then draft him, it would immediately improve our Defense by leaps and bounds.


This^^^
Nice to get off the field on defense on 3rd and longs.
I dont think he will be that dominant at the next level  
Rudy5757 : 2/13/2020 11:00 am : link
One of his weaknesses is engaging blockers and I think he is a liability against the run. He doesnt seem to have the killer instinct either imo. I think people fall in love with his numbers but he seems to get lost a lot of games and his plays come in spurts. He doesn't get through traffic as well as you would like. I see him as a good player in the NFL but not a great player. I would be happier with him after 15 not at 4.
I don't get the comparisons to Jabril Peppers  
gidiefor : Mod : 2/13/2020 11:03 am : link
Peppers was touted as a Safety, who could explode through the gaps with speed and not get touched, a running back and a returner. His scouting reports said he was not good in coverage. He was a three tool college player and he is 6'1"

Simmons can cover -- he has off the charts ability on coverage and area of NY Giants weakness, and he can turn the corner and pass rush - and punch the Offensive Tackle and get around him - these are two very different tools than Peppers has shown. Also he is 6' 5" and has a large wingspan -- it's a very different body type than Peppers

I love his abilities -- he does seem to stop playing sometimes - and when you compare him to Chase Young I think Young is a much more aggressive and physical player -- but Simmons has some mad skills that you don't find in combination much.

Young is all Pass Rusher, violent and quick

Simmons can pass rush and cover -- and he can lay the wood

JonC doesn't like SImmons - I wonder if he could speak up about it -- but the tape I've seen on him shows a pretty damn good defensive player with multiples - and that is the buzz coming out of Judge
I willing admit that I'm not  
Dnew15 : 2/13/2020 11:10 am : link
a college football guy - I don't have the time to watch a lot of college football (I'm usually at a baseball/soccer field watching my own kids play).

The commonality between Peppers and Simmons to the lazy college scout like myself is the versatility piece to his game.

BTW - I'm not saying it as a knock him. I happen to think that Peppers is a good player and I think he was better than, oh I don't know, Landon Collins when it came to covering TEs.

RE: I don't get the comparisons to Jabril Peppers  
section125 : 2/13/2020 11:11 am : link
In comment 14810360 gidiefor said:
Quote:
Peppers was touted as a Safety, who could explode through the gaps with speed and not get touched, a running back and a returner. His scouting reports said he was not good in coverage. He was a three tool college player and he is 6'1"

Simmons can cover -- he has off the charts ability on coverage and area of NY Giants weakness, and he can turn the corner and pass rush - and punch the Offensive Tackle and get around him - these are two very different tools than Peppers has shown. Also he is 6' 5" and has a large wingspan -- it's a very different body type than Peppers

I love his abilities -- he does seem to stop playing sometimes - and when you compare him to Chase Young I think Young is a much more aggressive and physical player -- but Simmons has some mad skills that you don't find in combination much.

Young is all Pass Rusher, violent and quick

Simmons can pass rush and cover -- and he can lay the wood

JonC doesn't like SImmons - I wonder if he could speak up about it -- but the tape I've seen on him shows a pretty damn good defensive player with multiples - and that is the buzz coming out of Judge


FWIW, I agree on the Peppers comparisons - physically different players.
His only draw back is his narrow build. I don't think he can carry much more weight, he is built like a very tall safety. I don't think he'd do well inside on 1st and 2nd downs, but would be perfect on 3rd and medium to long.
I will admit however...  
Dnew15 : 2/13/2020 11:12 am : link
that I do have concerns about guys that come out of college as jack of all trades, master of none type players.
I expected Simmons to be a polarizing prospect...  
Torrag : 2/13/2020 11:16 am : link
because he is unusual and he was deployed in unusual ways on gameday. It's difficult to find a comp for him in the league. Polomalu is a pretty good one. He covered, played in the box and blitzed well. Cam Chancelor is another good one. But these types of guys aren't widespread because there combination of physical tools don't manifest in one player very often. It's a rare skillset.

It's a skillset that comes with an extremely high upside. All Pro upside. It's not one without risk though. Why? Because it will take an innovative coaching staff to assess week to week and game to game how to deploy him vs the next opponent to maximize his potential.

You can't line him up as a LB in the box and press play. He ISN'T a traditional LB. He played much less than 50% of his career snaps at the position. He doesn't thrive taking on the blocks of Guards and Centers in space. He's a 'MOVE' defender and if you don't use him that way you're going to be disappointed in the result.

I happen to think we have the right staff and philosophy to exploit his potential or I wouldn't advocate taking him #4. IF we stay there and Young doesn't miraculously fall to us(which he won't) Simmons would be my pick. I'd have some butterflies and a strange combination of excitement and worry going on in my head but I'd do it. The payoff could be tremendous. He makes impact plays at a startling rate.
I do really like  
Dnew15 : 2/13/2020 11:17 am : link
reading about people who do know college football and what they think about players and how they will project to the NFL, so thank you for your insight.

I do love the NFL draft.

I find it to be fascinating.

As someone who watched as much tape on Simmons as possible  
GoDeep13 : 2/13/2020 11:35 am : link
I think people really don't get it. He's far more than a "3 down linebacker". To put it this way.

If he played strictly Safety. He'd be the top Safety in this class.

He's currently the top LB listed in this class.

He might be the best slot defender I've covered in this draft.

This guy can line up 15 yards from the line of scrimmage and make a tackle on a running back for a loss. His closing speed is ridiculous. For a league that has Lamar Jackson, Kyler Murray, Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, and other QBS that can be threats running the ball. Simmons is a special prospect.
I don't know.  
Klaatu : 2/13/2020 11:37 am : link
As I've said before, I haven't seen enough of Simmons to form an educated opinion, however, two things come to mind:

First, okay, PFF loves him. But PFF loved Leonard Floyd pre-draft, too. Now, not so much.

JonC doesn't like him much, at least not at #4, and his judgement is usually sound. I'll wait and see if his opinion has changed. Ditto for Sy'56, whom I believe was not very high on Simmons, either, so we'll see about that, too.

It's no secret I'm all about an OT at #4, however, for the past two years I've wanted the Giants to draft a bona fide defensive difference-maker in the 1st round, preferably a disruptive pass-rusher. If the Giants feel Simmons can be that guy, so be it.
'He's currently the top LB listed in this class.'  
Torrag : 2/13/2020 11:39 am : link
He's not. He has power issues inside and slips blocks far too often rather than taking them on. He played well under 50% of his snaps as a Lb in his college career.

He's a multi position guy that needs to play in space as a move defender the majority of his snaps.
RE: I don't know.  
Dnew15 : 2/13/2020 11:46 am : link
In comment 14810408 Klaatu said:
Quote:
As I've said before, I haven't seen enough of Simmons to form an educated opinion, however, two things come to mind:

First, okay, PFF loves him. But PFF loved Leonard Floyd pre-draft, too. Now, not so much.

JonC doesn't like him much, at least not at #4, and his judgement is usually sound. I'll wait and see if his opinion has changed. Ditto for Sy'56, whom I believe was not very high on Simmons, either, so we'll see about that, too.

It's no secret I'm all about an OT at #4, however, for the past two years I've wanted the Giants to draft a bona fide defensive difference-maker in the 1st round, preferably a disruptive pass-rusher. If the Giants feel Simmons can be that guy, so be it.


I'm with you on the OT idea - but again - as a lazy scout, it seems like all the OT guys at the top of the class Wirfs/Thomas/Willis/Becton all kind of have warts. Are any of them worth pick #4...probably a topic for a different thread...but you guys know a lot more than I do...clearly.

I did miss Sy's bowl game previews - I did get a better idea of who was who thanks to those.
RE: 'He's currently the top LB listed in this class.'  
GoDeep13 : 2/13/2020 11:46 am : link
In comment 14810410 Torrag said:
Quote:
He's not. He has power issues inside and slips blocks far too often rather than taking them on. He played well under 50% of his snaps as a Lb in his college career.

He's a multi position guy that needs to play in space as a move defender the majority of his snaps.


Bucky Brooks has him listed as the top LB in the draft.

Also thats what people said about Roquan Smith and Deion Jones. Slip blocks others take on. not about what they do but how well they do it. Darius Leonard slips blocks all day. one of the best Will backers in the league.
RE: I've seen the criticism  
Toth029 : 2/13/2020 11:47 am : link
In comment 14810296 Dr. D said:
Quote:
that he's only 230 lbs. But he's also only 21 yrs old.

He's listed as 6'4". Is it not possible, I would say likely, for him to add some bulk with NFL training (without losing too much speed)?

Urlacher added 20 lbs. or so going into the Combine.

He doesn't need to be the ILB #1. They'll run a lot of nickel and hybrid defenses anyway. Lawrence, Tomlinson and (potentially) Williams are boulders up front. Keep someone like Simmons clean and he could be a big factor.

How is his tackling? Coverage is nice but covering college receivers is different than the pros (obviously).
RE: As someone who watched as much tape on Simmons as possible  
Dnew15 : 2/13/2020 11:49 am : link
In comment 14810403 GoDeep13 said:
Quote:
I think people really don't get it. He's far more than a "3 down linebacker". To put it this way.

If he played strictly Safety. He'd be the top Safety in this class.

He's currently the top LB listed in this class.

He might be the best slot defender I've covered in this draft.

This guy can line up 15 yards from the line of scrimmage and make a tackle on a running back for a loss. His closing speed is ridiculous. For a league that has Lamar Jackson, Kyler Murray, Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, and other QBS that can be threats running the ball. Simmons is a special prospect.


Man - it's hard to fathom a 6'4' 230 pd slot corner succeeding in the NFL. Either the guy is a special talent, or the slot WRs in the ACC weren't very good.
'Bucky Brooks has him listed as the top LB in the draft.'  
Torrag : 2/13/2020 11:54 am : link
Maybe bucky is struggling with categorizing him as many do and took a shot and missed. When you play well under 50% of your snaps at a position you aren't that thing. You're a new thing. He lined up 48% of the time as a DB of some type. Either high safety or nickel CB.

I really want Simmons  
SteelGiant : 2/13/2020 12:19 pm : link
I can't believe how many of you are down on him. I would take at 4 for sure, in perfect world I would love you trade down to 5 and get an extra first so we can get a OL then too.

In today's NFL you need a modern day inside LB and I do believe that Simmons could turn into an All-Pro at that position.

Look around the league at today's weapons, QB are becoming more mobile and getting rid of the ball quicker. Team are running TEs and WR slanting through middle of the field all the time.

Simmons is exactly the kind of Athlete you need in the middle and they are even harder to find than pure pass rushers. If you want to win in this league you need to be able to cover the pass catching TE, spy on mobile QBs, and disguise the middle of the field.

Simmons has the potential to do all those things for us. You want to be able to disguise your pass rushers and you can't do that if you don't have LBs who can cover. I think we desperately need a guy like this.
RE: Sorry, but  
ZogZerg : 2/13/2020 12:31 pm : link
In comment 14810291 Jan in DC said:
Quote:
please take those statistics with a grain of salt. Clemson didn't play any competition until their final two games of the season.


Agree with this.
ACC was garbage this year.
RE: I really want Simmons  
DonnieD89 : 2/13/2020 12:36 pm : link
In comment 14810451 SteelGiant said:
Quote:
I can't believe how many of you are down on him. I would take at 4 for sure, in perfect world I would love you trade down to 5 and get an extra first so we can get a OL then too.

In today's NFL you need a modern day inside LB and I do believe that Simmons could turn into an All-Pro at that position.

Look around the league at today's weapons, QB are becoming more mobile and getting rid of the ball quicker. Team are running TEs and WR slanting through middle of the field all the time.

Simmons is exactly the kind of Athlete you need in the middle and they are even harder to find than pure pass rushers. If you want to win in this league you need to be able to cover the pass catching TE, spy on mobile QBs, and disguise the middle of the field.

Simmons has the potential to do all those things for us. You want to be able to disguise your pass rushers and you can't do that if you don't have LBs who can cover. I think we desperately need a guy like this.


Your argument has very valid points. I think it is just a matter of how the Giants staff projects him onto the field at the pro level. Are they going to be able to utilize him this way and is he going to be a fit their schemes all 3 downs? The other question is how high do they have him ranked compared to other draftees, compared to Okudah, Wills, or even Thomas? There is tremendous unclarity at #4.
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