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NFT: My 5 y/o kid head split open

penkap75 : 2/13/2020 2:39 pm
So yesterday at work, I get a call from my wife hysterical. My 5 y/o son was dropped off from his bus with the back of his head split open and bleeding everywhere from a laceration, clothes soaked in blood. Another 5 year old who has a history of being an asshole, tackled my son, and drove his head hard enough into the bus floor to cut it open. My son had to have 3 staples placed to stop the bleeding.

This bully kid has a history of being violent, and apparently the bus driver decided to seat my non violent calm son next to this kid thinking he would cause less trouble. They have assigned seats, and my kid normally sits no where close to this kid. Bus driver also acted like it was nothing, a just slapped a tissue on my kids head and continue with the drop offs as usual.

So today, my wife talks the principal who is blowing this off as an accident and not even disciplining the kid who assaulted my kid. She sat my kid and bully together and made them say it was accident and he is sorry. She is putting words in my kids mouth, because my kid was clearly saying the other kid tackled him intentionally.

This is in the Roslyn school district of Long Island, and I'm not paying a shitload of school taxes to have my 5 y/o kid's head split open on the bus. I would have stayed in Brooklyn if I wanted my kids beaten up. I'm not a litigious guy (I hate lawyers), but the school is blowing us off as a a nothing incident.

Need advice on what to do. I want to beat the shit out of the other kid's parents, but they won't even tell us the full name and contact info the bully kid.
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The school and or bus driver etc withholding the name of the boy  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/13/2020 7:20 pm : link
who attacked your son, and the lack of parents to parents interaction is extremely disconcerting to me. We once had a similar (not as physically bad in terms of injury, but in a way worse since my daughter was actually bitten by a classmate.)

But the offending child's parents were very ashamed, concerned and apologetic.

And the kindergarten teacher was very involved in the follow up and resolution to the conflict.

The school's and bus company and driver's disinterest in your son's welfare is shocking.
Best wishes to your son  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/13/2020 7:26 pm : link
for a speedy recovery both physical and emotional.
i'd want to know if the school has been covering up  
MM_in_NYC : 2/13/2020 7:47 pm : link
incidents with this student or other students. or even if not covering up not taking appropriate actions. and i'd want to know for reasons. if they were they acted negligently and thereby increasing the chances that something happening to someone, in this case, and quite unfortunately, to your son.

if they acted negligently, maybe grossly, i'd be even more pissed at them and want accountability as seen by discipline of people and consequences, including monetary.

pull the thread. get satisfaction. you deserve it.
Go right to the  
Bleedin Blue : 2/13/2020 7:47 pm : link
Superintendent, make an appointment and ask him or her who investigated the incident, the results and what is going to be done. Also say that your child and wife felt bullied by the principal to accept that it was an accident, when that was not what your child reported to you!
You are entitled to a copy of the incident report. The report should tell you how to file a claim, because the school district is required to file an incident report to their insurance company whenever a child is injured.

This is straight from the horses mouth, because my wife was the President of our school board when we lived on Long Island.
RE: Go right to the  
penkap75 : 2/13/2020 8:04 pm : link
In comment 14810828 Bleedin Blue said:
Quote:


This is straight from the horses mouth, because my wife was the President of our school board when we lived on Long Island.


Thanks! Very helpful advice. Will definitely do that. I want to do everything possible to avoid lawyers unless they force our hand.
Sorry to hear this I hope your son is OK  
steve in ky : 2/13/2020 9:02 pm : link
IMO you should insist at least something goes on record if for no other reason than in case the bully tries to pull something else with your son down the road this case is documented.. Even if the dollar amount isn't large I would insist that the boys parents pay for the medical bill. That would also serve as proof if you need it later for some reason.

Someone mentioned going to the press/media. Do your son a favor and don't go down that road. That would only embarrass him and make him a bigger target for mocking from other kids.

This has to be tough, seeing your child hurt or mistreated is a tough thing for any parent. Good luck with it.
RE: The school and or bus driver etc withholding the name of the boy  
robbieballs2003 : 2/13/2020 9:56 pm : link
In comment 14810818 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
who attacked your son, and the lack of parents to parents interaction is extremely disconcerting to me. We once had a similar (not as physically bad in terms of injury, but in a way worse since my daughter was actually bitten by a classmate.)

But the offending child's parents were very ashamed, concerned and apologetic.

And the kindergarten teacher was very involved in the follow up and resolution to the conflict.

The school's and bus company and driver's disinterest in your son's welfare is shocking.


Why is that concerning? No administrator should ever give out someone else's information. Imagine something happened after the fact like as was stated above by going to their house and something happened. The administrator would be in serious shit.
I am sorry to hear about your son  
newjacksm : 2/13/2020 10:31 pm : link
I would try to get some answers from the Super Intentendent or Supervisor. As well as speak to the parents of the boy and even get the kids to speak as well under supervision of the parents and school administration.

I am not sure a lawyer would be needed unless something else comes out of this, like the bus driver did this out of malice...... Yeah I don't think so on the last part...

Best of luck and I really hope this resolves quickly, and your son heals up quickly.

Also, maybe BJJ/Grappling classes would be cool, he will appreciate it in a few years and he will get build some confidence after being shoved like this on a moving bus and losing balance. Just speaking from experience when I was younger, I had a similar experience of being bullied on a bus when I was in 5 in the Half Hollow Hills school district....
So the administrator's first act was to cover up  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/13/2020 11:10 pm : link
the incident by having an alleged attack be re-described as "an accident" to cover the ass of the perp and their second response should in theory be to deny access to information (that could probably be fairly easily ascertained through asking various classmates about the name of the perp) to cover his own ass just in case the aggrieved party, rather than seeking an explanation and resolution, is looking for vigilante justice?

What kind of fucked up society is that, in an exclusive neighborhood?

I thank G-d my daughter's incident occurred in a town with an educational system that valued truth and conflict resolution over ass covering.
_________  
I am Ninja : 2/13/2020 11:21 pm : link
IAAL. Call the police and tell them you want a Family Court Order of Protection.
RE: I think the advice from pj was good  
Jim from Katonah : 2/13/2020 11:51 pm : link
In comment 14810661 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
Not the stalking...the idea that kids take emotional queues from their parents. Getting yourself worked up, involving lawyers and the media may underscore to your son that he is a victim, and what happened to him is horrible. Making a big deal out of it may also bring even more attention that your son may not want.

My suggestion would be to tell your son to sit elsewhere on the bus. Send him with a note from you and your wife that you don't want him sitting with a kid who has been violent. If the driver makes him sit there, call the principal.

Believe me, I understand the desire to find the kid's dad and kick the crap out of him. I am a father and have had similar reactions. But I am (slowly) learning that really never is the best answer.

I hope your boy is doing better and this is behind both of you.


This is great advice.
I'd demand a meeting with the principle and bus driver and insist  
jcp56 : 2/14/2020 2:23 am : link
that the bully sits no where near your son, and neither will pass each other on the bus.

Otherwise, move on. And consider teaching your son some basic self defense so your son can put an end to the bullying if he has no other options.
What does your boy want?  
George from PA : 2/14/2020 3:03 am : link
Karate lessons?

The more you get involved the worse it might get for your son.

Police report.if the kid doesn’t learn  
Giant John : 2/14/2020 4:31 am : link
And repeats a violent act you want to have a record that shows the kid has a history. Schools don’t particularly like to have the police brought into these situations. They tend to take things more seriously when that happens. Sorry about your son and hope he has no more trouble with the kid.
Unbelievable...  
rnargi : 2/14/2020 6:57 am : link
...so sorry your son was attacked. I'm from a different era. I would have been ordered by my dad to walk up to the bully the next day and sock him in the nose as hard as possible and then wail on him until stopped. No more bully. I've seen it work, too. The most ironic thing is this. Had the five year old bully pretended to shoot your son with a finger gun, he'd have been arrested and expelled. Food for thought if you can't get anywhere through reason.
RE: Unbelievable...  
penkap75 : 2/14/2020 7:36 am : link
In comment 14810939 rnargi said:
Quote:
...so sorry your son was attacked. I'm from a different era. I would have been ordered by my dad to walk up to the bully the next day and sock him in the nose as hard as possible and then wail on him until stopped. No more bully. I've seen it work, too. The most ironic thing is this. Had the five year old bully pretended to shoot your son with a finger gun, he'd have been arrested and expelled. Food for thought if you can't get anywhere through reason.


Trust me, I grew up in an era where I fought all the time (and personally enjoyed it). As an asian kid growing in Brooklyn and Queens, I can't count how many times I was called Bruce Lee or go back to china. Kids are dumbasses that age. Settling in the school yard was the only way I knew, even my mom told me to fight and don't bother her.

I teach both my 5y/o and 7/o to fight back, but they keep telling me they are afraid of getting in trouble with the teachers since its suppose to be zero tolerance these days. I tell them they will never get in trouble with me if they fight, hell, I will even reward them with a video game if know they fought back. But despite all this zero tolerance PC bullshit, my kid is getting shafting so the school can minimize their liability. I'm personally talking to the Principal today.
I am very sorry to read about your son and his injury......but  
GiantBlue : 2/14/2020 7:46 am : link
the shocking thing to me throughout this whole story and advice is the bus driver.

The bus driver assigned your son to sit next to this bully. Why? Was it a change? What caused the change? What is the climate on the bus? Is it typically a raucous bus ride or is it typically tranquil? Ask your son if this child has a history on this bus of causing problems. I still would like to know why your son was asked to sit next to him and on that particular day; he was injured by this child.

Second, tissue paper to the cut and let's resume the regular stops??????

This is crazy. If a five year boy had an apparent head injury with blood, the first thing should be a call to 911 and pulling out a first aid kit to staunch the bleeding until the ambulance arrives.

Also, the bus driver should have parent contact numbers and the next call should have been to you or your wife.

This was handled extremely poorly by the bus driver.

I know this isn't primary to your issue, but what about the other kids on the bus who witnessed this and all the blood? What about their parents when the child went home and explained about the drama on the bus that day?

I know the school principal and board should be more involved, but if the bus company is a private entity hired by the school, then complaints should be made against that totally inexperienced bus driver.

That person should never drive a school bus again.
I live in NYC and work for the Dept of Ed  
Matt M. : 2/14/2020 7:47 am : link
so my advice is based on those experiences, but will probably mostly apply. Cirst of all, you contact the principal again and demand a formal.iformal.incurrent is logged in whatever system they use. Cc the Superintendent. Depending on who is responsible for the bus, you contact the company or the school district and demand an investigation involving the driver's behavior.

Even at that age, when our son was being physically bullied by a known violent kid, I met with the principal and informed him he has to do his job and I do mine. I have instructed my son to defend himself. Every hear we requested not to be in that kid's class. When my son finally did pop him in nose in defence, I told the Principal, "oh well"
RE: So the administrator's first act was to cover up  
robbieballs2003 : 2/14/2020 7:47 am : link
In comment 14810910 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
the incident by having an alleged attack be re-described as "an accident" to cover the ass of the perp and their second response should in theory be to deny access to information (that could probably be fairly easily ascertained through asking various classmates about the name of the perp) to cover his own ass just in case the aggrieved party, rather than seeking an explanation and resolution, is looking for vigilante justice?

What kind of fucked up society is that, in an exclusive neighborhood?

I thank G-d my daughter's incident occurred in a town with an educational system that valued truth and conflict resolution over ass covering.


One is completely different than the other. I think we both agree this principal sucks and handled this wrong. However, you never discuss other students to students or parents. I don't understand why that is an issue. If you child was involved in an incident as the one doing the act you think it is right for an administrator to give out your child's information to someone else that could retaliate on their own terms? Sorry. That is stupid. If it is that bad of an incident then file a police report.
Also, demand to be present when your 5 year old  
Matt M. : 2/14/2020 7:51 am : link
is interviewed. They have a tendency to get kids to twist words, change stories, and/or not record exactly what is said. When my son was involved in a bus incident with the matron, first we had to request they interview him. They were set to close the investigation without interviewing the victim. I demanded to be present. At 6, he was a champ. The investigator was a former cop and was interrogating him as if he did something. He asked the same questions several different ways at different points. My boy's answers were unwavering.
RE: Sorry to see this  
Matt M. : 2/14/2020 7:53 am : link
In comment 14810594 Gap92 said:
Quote:
Shitty situation. As the parent of another non-violent 5-year old boy, I feel your pain and am pissed off on your behalf.

I'm not sure what the options are here. Speaking to the Board of Ed is an option, but if your LI board is anything like my Board here in CT, it's likely a waste of time.

I hope your little dude feels better and is separated from the bully kid from here on out.
It's not about wasting time. It's important to create a paper trail in case there is a next time.
RE: I am very sorry to read about your son and his injury......but  
penkap75 : 2/14/2020 7:53 am : link
In comment 14810957 GiantBlue said:
Quote:
the shocking thing to me throughout this whole story and advice is the bus driver.

The bus driver assigned your son to sit next to this bully. Why? Was it a change? What caused the change? What is the climate on the bus? Is it typically a raucous bus ride or is it typically tranquil? Ask your son if this child has a history on this bus of causing problems. I still would like to know why your son was asked to sit next to him and on that particular day; he was injured by this child.

Second, tissue paper to the cut and let's resume the regular stops??????

This is crazy. If a five year boy had an apparent head injury with blood, the first thing should be a call to 911 and pulling out a first aid kit to staunch the bleeding until the ambulance arrives.

Also, the bus driver should have parent contact numbers and the next call should have been to you or your wife.

This was handled extremely poorly by the bus driver.

I know this isn't primary to your issue, but what about the other kids on the bus who witnessed this and all the blood? What about their parents when the child went home and explained about the drama on the bus that day?

I know the school principal and board should be more involved, but if the bus company is a private entity hired by the school, then complaints should be made against that totally inexperienced bus driver.

That person should never drive a school bus again.


Trust me, this is the 1st thing I am going to bring up with the principal. I am seriously concerned about the bus safety protocol, and the lapses are egregious.
RE: RE: Unbelievable...  
robbieballs2003 : 2/14/2020 7:57 am : link
In comment 14810950 penkap75 said:
Quote:
In comment 14810939 rnargi said:


Quote:


...so sorry your son was attacked. I'm from a different era. I would have been ordered by my dad to walk up to the bully the next day and sock him in the nose as hard as possible and then wail on him until stopped. No more bully. I've seen it work, too. The most ironic thing is this. Had the five year old bully pretended to shoot your son with a finger gun, he'd have been arrested and expelled. Food for thought if you can't get anywhere through reason.



Trust me, I grew up in an era where I fought all the time (and personally enjoyed it). As an asian kid growing in Brooklyn and Queens, I can't count how many times I was called Bruce Lee or go back to china. Kids are dumbasses that age. Settling in the school yard was the only way I knew, even my mom told me to fight and don't bother her.

I teach both my 5y/o and 7/o to fight back, but they keep telling me they are afraid of getting in trouble with the teachers since its suppose to be zero tolerance these days. I tell them they will never get in trouble with me if they fight, hell, I will even reward them with a video game if know they fought back. But despite all this zero tolerance PC bullshit, my kid is getting shafting so the school can minimize their liability. I'm personally talking to the Principal today.


While I have the same mentality and grew up the same way that is a dangerous path. There are too many idiots today that can get a weapon. Hell, I live in a pretty wealthy area and I went to get my haircut yesterday. The barber just told me a story where a father was waiting to get his haircut so he said he'd be right back. The father brought his kid to the 7-11 next door. There was a car in the parking lot moving very slowly and staring at the father. The window rolls down and the guy asks if he wants to get shot. The father moved his son behind him and rushed him into the store. He was so distraught that he never got the license plate. The barber saw the whole thing out the window. Just remember that there is a fine line between being tough and smart.
Sorry but its only going to get worse  
Gettledogman : 2/14/2020 8:33 am : link
NY is a shithole run by shitheads.. The rule of law is fast eroding and the tax base is leaving very quickly. Go visit LA to see your future prospects, not kidding.

So glad we moved, I highly recommend it.
RE: Contact Police Department and file a report  
Gettledogman : 2/14/2020 8:35 am : link
In comment 14810756 give66 said:
Quote:
Even if they end up doing nothing it will be on the record. If you don't report and something happens again, you will not have a record and the school admin can pull the same confidentiality bs and you will be back at square one.
I would also get a lawyer.


File a report -nothing will happen but youu will have documentation for support.
RE: Police report.if the kid doesn’t learn  
penkap75 : 2/14/2020 8:37 am : link
In comment 14810929 Giant John said:
Quote:
And repeats a violent act you want to have a record that shows the kid has a history. Schools don’t particularly like to have the police brought into these situations. They tend to take things more seriously when that happens. Sorry about your son and hope he has no more trouble with the kid.


Don't think I'm going to go that route, and I am meeting with the principal this afternoon.

But out of curiosity, what is he statue of limitation for police reports? The incident occurred wednesday, can you still call the police 2 days later after the fact?
RE: RE: I think the advice from pj was good  
Bill L : 2/14/2020 8:37 am : link
In comment 14810920 Jim from Katonah said:
Quote:
In comment 14810661 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


Not the stalking...the idea that kids take emotional queues from their parents. Getting yourself worked up, involving lawyers and the media may underscore to your son that he is a victim, and what happened to him is horrible. Making a big deal out of it may also bring even more attention that your son may not want.

My suggestion would be to tell your son to sit elsewhere on the bus. Send him with a note from you and your wife that you don't want him sitting with a kid who has been violent. If the driver makes him sit there, call the principal.

Believe me, I understand the desire to find the kid's dad and kick the crap out of him. I am a father and have had similar reactions. But I am (slowly) learning that really never is the best answer.

I hope your boy is doing better and this is behind both of you.



This is great advice.

Doesn't this send a message that if someone kicks dirt on you that you should take it and then hide?
RE: RE: Unbelievable...  
Bill L : 2/14/2020 8:41 am : link
In comment 14810950 penkap75 said:
Quote:
In comment 14810939 rnargi said:


Quote:


...so sorry your son was attacked. I'm from a different era. I would have been ordered by my dad to walk up to the bully the next day and sock him in the nose as hard as possible and then wail on him until stopped. No more bully. I've seen it work, too. The most ironic thing is this. Had the five year old bully pretended to shoot your son with a finger gun, he'd have been arrested and expelled. Food for thought if you can't get anywhere through reason.



Trust me, I grew up in an era where I fought all the time (and personally enjoyed it). As an asian kid growing in Brooklyn and Queens, I can't count how many times I was called Bruce Lee or go back to china. Kids are dumbasses that age. Settling in the school yard was the only way I knew, even my mom told me to fight and don't bother her.

I teach both my 5y/o and 7/o to fight back, but they keep telling me they are afraid of getting in trouble with the teachers since its suppose to be zero tolerance these days. I tell them they will never get in trouble with me if they fight, hell, I will even reward them with a video game if know they fought back. But despite all this zero tolerance PC bullshit, my kid is getting shafting so the school can minimize their liability. I'm personally talking to the Principal today.
Same experience here. Except that, given popular television at the time, "bruce Lee" was interspersed with "Quai-Chiang" or "Ah-so, Grasshopper" with maybe some "hai-ya"'s and other nonsensical sounds meant to be Chinese thrown in for good measure.

Sniff. I miss those days.
As for the school your taxes mean nothing to this conversation  
Gettledogman : 2/14/2020 8:42 am : link
sad but true -Lawyers are what matter. I would speak directly with Principal and then Superintendent and let them know you are speaking with an Attorney, you don't want to do this but it is unacceptable that your child was injured seriously for no reason -especially with a boy who has a history of creating problems. Read the riot act -squeaky wheel gets the grease -even use the race card to put a really good scare into them. Schools are bureaucratic nightmare filled with people who are afraid of lawyers. As a parent that's all you can do in this politically sensitive climate.
On a more serious note,  
Bill L : 2/14/2020 8:45 am : link
leaving the bullying incident aside...

You entrusted care of your minor child to the state (school and/or bus company) and in their care he was seriously injured. It seems to me that there is some liability here, regardless.
Good luck with the meeting.  
robbieballs2003 : 2/14/2020 9:22 am : link
Document what was discussed and don't leave unsatisfied but also don't go crazy because they will escort you out.
Agree....Stay very calm and rational  
GiantBlue : 2/14/2020 9:35 am : link
I would also speak to other parents of the kids on the bus that your son may know or interact with.

It never hurts to mention that you have a cadre of concerned parents because of this child (and future actions), the bus driver (and how she handled this situation as a precursor to future situations) and the principal himself (letting him know that people are watching this reaction).

I know most parents are nervous when they put their five year old's onto a bus and send them to school. Heck, I remember being five years old in Hollis, Queens and wondering if the bus was going the right way just because the route took it north of Hillside Avenue and I lived closer to Jamaica Avenue (1965- Ha!)

I feel for you and your son because he and you/your wife by extension should never have to deal with type of situation/injury. We are seeing what head injuries are doing to football players on a daily basis.

I say again, that bus driver should have taken the greatest possible caution when encountered with that situation.
RE: Also, my end goal  
Bleedin Blue : 2/14/2020 9:39 am : link
In comment 14810788 penkap75 said:
Quote:
Is simply to have the kid thrown off the bus. He needs to understand their are consequences to his actions. And his parents need the inconvenience of finding another way of getting to him to school. I don't care about lawyers, media. Etc. When I was a kid, bloody fights were normal (not at 5 though, wtf?). But this day and age I thought it was zero tolerance, safe space, and all that bullshit right?


They can but they would have to suspend his bus privileges first, then if another incident, they can revoke, free bus is an entitlement not a right.
You’re better off pursuing an aide to be assigned to the troubled kid, where he has to sit with the side in the front of the bus. That option is costly to the district, so it would be for a short term, and if the kid continues to act up, then they could move to suspend his bus privileges.
Good Luck! Keep us up to date
DON'T LET IT SLIDE.  
x meadowlander : 2/14/2020 9:55 am : link
Boys will be boys, my ass. If it was a fistfight or something along those lines, yeah, that stuff happens, but if it's what was described here, a bully driving a non violent kids head into the floor causing that much damage?

If that goes unaddressed, your son's injury will pale to the pain and damage that little fucker will get away with in the future.

I taught my kids to defend themselves, there was a bully in my oldest sons elementary school - a punch to the bully's belly ended that episode, but that same bully later kicked a unsuspecting classmate so hard in the balls the kid had damage that had to be surgically repaired.

Fuck bullies. I'd call a lawyer, and go after the kid's family, the school and the bus driver. Fuck that.
for some strange reason  
bc4life : 2/14/2020 10:37 am : link
school admisintrators hear attorney's voices more clearly than parents'
When you made your appointment  
eli4life : 2/14/2020 11:01 am : link
With the principal you should of asked for a direct contact number for your lawyer should this not be immediately resolved satisfactorily. Mention lawyer and I promise you will have his full attention
I haven't read the whole thread  
figgy2989 : 2/14/2020 11:52 am : link
But I am here on LI too. If all you are looking for is justice to the Roslyn School District, have you thought about contacting channel 12?

You see them do stories on situations similar this all the time and usually paints the school district in a negative light.
Also  
figgy2989 : 2/14/2020 11:56 am : link
Make sure you are keeping notes with Dates with everyone you and your wife have met with at the school.
RE: RE: RE: I think the advice from pj was good  
Jim from Katonah : 2/14/2020 12:03 pm : link
In comment 14810983 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14810920 Jim from Katonah said:


Quote:


In comment 14810661 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


Not the stalking...the idea that kids take emotional queues from their parents. Getting yourself worked up, involving lawyers and the media may underscore to your son that he is a victim, and what happened to him is horrible. Making a big deal out of it may also bring even more attention that your son may not want.

My suggestion would be to tell your son to sit elsewhere on the bus. Send him with a note from you and your wife that you don't want him sitting with a kid who has been violent. If the driver makes him sit there, call the principal.

Believe me, I understand the desire to find the kid's dad and kick the crap out of him. I am a father and have had similar reactions. But I am (slowly) learning that really never is the best answer.

I hope your boy is doing better and this is behind both of you.



This is great advice.


Doesn't this send a message that if someone kicks dirt on you that you should take it and then hide?


I can see your point. But with the caveat that I know nothing about the other kid, my 2 cents is thar the age here matters. I have 4 kids (and have coached a lot of youth sports over the past 15 years) and in my experience 5 year olds have little or no impulse control and understanding of the ramifications of their actions. I’ve had kids walk over to other kids and throw baseballs at their head from a foot away, all sorts of crazy stuff ... their brains are just not fully formed, and it’s probably way too early (at least in most cases) to say that their actions were truly informed and mean spirited. I’d feel differently if the kids were even 7 or 8.

Bigger picture, I was raised by the ethic of “never start a fight — but don’t back down one from either,” and I pretty much followed that rule growing up (with mixed results lol). Over time though, I’ve thought about things differently. There is a certain satisfaction with a scorched earth approach, but it also comes with a personal cost of a different sort — immersion in anger at the expense of using your energy to pursue the good things in life. That doesn’t just go for physical fights, it also goes for business disputes, parking spots, you name it ... there is a cost to being drawn in.

I’ve taught my kids ad nauseam that they are going to run into assholes throughout their lifetime, and the best approach is usually to deflect, remove yourself, and not let the bastards draw you in. And, in many instances the better satisfaction is in not pursuing an eye for an eye, but finding a different remedy. For example, in a competitive situation like basketball, if someone commits a dirty foul on you, don’t come back at him like Anthony Mason, come back at him like Steph Curry and drill 3 pointers down his throat ... and then shake his hand at the end. Now, there’s always gonna be a time where you don’t want to be a doormat, but I think teaching your kids some emotional intelligence works — has worked great for my kids, at least.
My two cents...  
BillKo : 2/14/2020 1:37 pm : link
...I'd get the parents name, get their address, and go knock on their door to correct the situation with their kid.

Lawyers cost money, media gives probably unnecessary spotlight on your kid.

I'm not saying to go punch the other father out, but tell him in no uncertain terms it's not happening again.
RE: Earl the goat...  
x meadowlander : 2/14/2020 1:42 pm : link
In comment 14810792 rmc3981 said:
Quote:
Back in 1975 my father did exactly that. I went to to an all boy school in New Jersey and I was 7-1 as a baseball pitcher as a freshman and thought I was a big deal and BMOC. First day of sophomore year, I was sitting in Algebra class and the Christian Brother teaching us was wearing a hearing aid. The assholes that we were as kids (me in particular), a bunch of us were sitting in the back of the class scratching aluminum to interfere with the Brother's hearing aid. Well, long story short, the teacher caught me and proceeded to take me out to the locker room area and beat the living shit out of me. I still have a scar on the side of my chin where his ring caught me. I was bleeding like I was stabbed. As a 14 year old, you weren't even thinking about fighting back. Well, they suspended me for two weeks. My father came to pick me up having been called at work that an "incident" had occurred. He saw me, asked what had happened. I told him and he said "good, he should have beat you worse, that's what I'm paying for you to go to private school for? Don't ever do anything like that again" (I never did)...he then proceeded to the Brother's office with me in tow and, with one punch, laid him out. Nobody at the school administration ever said a thing. Times have changed. I have always felt bad about putting my father in that position and also about being a jerk with the Christian Brother. I grew up in a hurry that day.

Having said all that, I'm sorry that your little boy went through all that. There are never any easy answers. I do think, that in some respects, the faster you get through all of it, the less traumatic for your son, but, I'm certainly no expert.
Which school?

I did one year at Paramus Catholic. Fucking HATED it. More fights in one year there then I ever had combined in my life. I was a small kid, easy target for bullies.
RE: RE: RE: I think the advice from pj was good  
pjcas18 : 2/14/2020 2:02 pm : link
In comment 14810983 Bill L said:
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In comment 14810920 Jim from Katonah said:


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In comment 14810661 Mike from Ohio said:


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Not the stalking...the idea that kids take emotional queues from their parents. Getting yourself worked up, involving lawyers and the media may underscore to your son that he is a victim, and what happened to him is horrible. Making a big deal out of it may also bring even more attention that your son may not want.

My suggestion would be to tell your son to sit elsewhere on the bus. Send him with a note from you and your wife that you don't want him sitting with a kid who has been violent. If the driver makes him sit there, call the principal.

Believe me, I understand the desire to find the kid's dad and kick the crap out of him. I am a father and have had similar reactions. But I am (slowly) learning that really never is the best answer.

I hope your boy is doing better and this is behind both of you.



This is great advice.


Doesn't this send a message that if someone kicks dirt on you that you should take it and then hide?


No, it doesn't send that message.

I never said anyone should "take it and then hide"

My suggestion was to take a breath, realize almost all the information the poster has on this has come from a 5 year old and a woman with English as a second language (no offense - and that is probably irrelevant but true), and do some basic investigation.

Don't blow up, and fly off the handle without facts. especially in front of your child.

As a parent and someone who coached kids that were not my own from the time they were 5 years old and up, I learned that children absolutely take emotional cues from parents or coaches or teachers, etc - an authority figure.

if they notice you as a parent as upset about this (in front of them) they will be too. And it could lead to many unintended outcomes. Your child could fear school, fear the school bus, fear for their safety, feel like a victim, etc.

My main point was be measured in your response, explore the issue, gather as much information as possible from as many sources and if and when it's time to blow up then you do. but otherwise approach this calmly - but by no means say what happened is ok or "hide" - no idea where that came from.

But it's certainly possible this was an accident or non malicious. Or maybe it was aggressive and malicious bullying. Point is you don't know.
'go knock on their door to correct the situation with their kid'  
Torrag : 2/14/2020 2:38 pm : link
This is literally the worst possible thing you could do. Opens you up to all kinds of legal ramifications. Let your attorney handle it. What the hell do you pay them for?
RE: My two cents...  
Jim from Katonah : 2/14/2020 3:00 pm : link
In comment 14811234 BillKo said:
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...I'd get the parents name, get their address, and go knock on their door to correct the situation with their kid.

Lawyers cost money, media gives probably unnecessary spotlight on your kid.

I'm not saying to go punch the other father out, but tell him in no uncertain terms it's not happening again.


You’d create a potential physical confrontation ... concerning the actions of a five year old? Holy moly.
RE: RE: My two cents...  
BillKo : 2/14/2020 3:10 pm : link
In comment 14811350 Jim from Katonah said:
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In comment 14811234 BillKo said:


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...I'd get the parents name, get their address, and go knock on their door to correct the situation with their kid.

Lawyers cost money, media gives probably unnecessary spotlight on your kid.

I'm not saying to go punch the other father out, but tell him in no uncertain terms it's not happening again.



You’d create a potential physical confrontation ... concerning the actions of a five year old? Holy moly.


I explicitly said do not punch the father out lol...which obviously means don't doing anything physical.

But I think going there and saying you need to get your kid under control. Maybe it sets off the light bulb they need to do something differently. Hearing directly from the parent.....could work.

Then again, I guess it could run in the family and it could be a confrontation. So advice taken!
First and foremost, I am glad your kid is ok  
Essex : 2/14/2020 3:11 pm : link
That is always the most important thing. And, of course, I can understand the parents frustration and anger (except for the remark about Brooklyn—i raise my kids in park slope and nobody gets beat up on a regular basis).

But To those blaming the other kids parents though, the kid is 5 years old?!? Are you insane? You think a parent is at fault for a five year old?? My older son, who is now 9, is a pain in the ass. He never hits anyone, but he is immature and gets in trouble in school with his friends by acting up. Every day, I beg him to behave and some days my begging works and some days it doesn’t. As he has gotten older, my parenting has been more helpful in steering him clear of trouble, but anyone who thinks that a parent of a five year old could really control his child who is a “bully” I think is being way too judgmental. The parent of the five year old is probably horrified by what his son did to the OP’s son.
RE: RE: RE: My two cents...  
Essex : 2/14/2020 3:12 pm : link
In comment 14811362 BillKo said:
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In comment 14811350 Jim from Katonah said:


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In comment 14811234 BillKo said:


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...I'd get the parents name, get their address, and go knock on their door to correct the situation with their kid.

Lawyers cost money, media gives probably unnecessary spotlight on your kid.

I'm not saying to go punch the other father out, but tell him in no uncertain terms it's not happening again.



You’d create a potential physical confrontation ... concerning the actions of a five year old? Holy moly.



I explicitly said do not punch the father out lol...which obviously means don't doing anything physical.

But I think going there and saying you need to get your kid under control. Maybe it sets off the light bulb they need to do something differently. Hearing directly from the parent.....could work.

Then again, I guess it could run in the family and it could be a confrontation. So advice taken!


Explain to me how he is going to get his five year old under control??
RE: First and foremost, I am glad your kid is ok  
BillKo : 2/14/2020 3:15 pm : link
In comment 14811363 Essex said:
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That is always the most important thing. And, of course, I can understand the parents frustration and anger (except for the remark about Brooklyn—i raise my kids in park slope and nobody gets beat up on a regular basis).

But To those blaming the other kids parents though, the kid is 5 years old?!? Are you insane? You think a parent is at fault for a five year old?? My older son, who is now 9, is a pain in the ass. He never hits anyone, but he is immature and gets in trouble in school with his friends by acting up. Every day, I beg him to behave and some days my begging works and some days it doesn’t. As he has gotten older, my parenting has been more helpful in steering him clear of trouble, but anyone who thinks that a parent of a five year old could really control his child who is a “bully” I think is being way too judgmental. The parent of the five year old is probably horrified by what his son did to the OP’s son.


Essex you make a good point about the age. 5 is young...as I picture this I'm thinking more of the range your son is in like 8-9.......


RE: RE: RE: My two cents...  
Jim from Katonah : 2/14/2020 3:51 pm : link
In comment 14811362 BillKo said:
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In comment 14811350 Jim from Katonah said:


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In comment 14811234 BillKo said:


Quote:


...I'd get the parents name, get their address, and go knock on their door to correct the situation with their kid.

Lawyers cost money, media gives probably unnecessary spotlight on your kid.

I'm not saying to go punch the other father out, but tell him in no uncertain terms it's not happening again.



You’d create a potential physical confrontation ... concerning the actions of a five year old? Holy moly.



I explicitly said do not punch the father out lol...which obviously means don't doing anything physical.

But I think going there and saying you need to get your kid under control. Maybe it sets off the light bulb they need to do something differently. Hearing directly from the parent.....could work.

Then again, I guess it could run in the family and it could be a confrontation. So advice taken!


It’s Russian roulette if you show up at the front door of someone unannounced concerning an issue like this. You might be charming as heck and mean well, but to me it’s a recipe for trouble.
RE: RE: RE: RE: My two cents...  
Jim from Katonah : 2/14/2020 3:57 pm : link
In comment 14811365 Essex said:
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In comment 14811362 BillKo said:


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In comment 14811350 Jim from Katonah said:


Quote:


In comment 14811234 BillKo said:


Quote:


...I'd get the parents name, get their address, and go knock on their door to correct the situation with their kid.

Lawyers cost money, media gives probably unnecessary spotlight on your kid.

I'm not saying to go punch the other father out, but tell him in no uncertain terms it's not happening again.



You’d create a potential physical confrontation ... concerning the actions of a five year old? Holy moly.



I explicitly said do not punch the father out lol...which obviously means don't doing anything physical.

But I think going there and saying you need to get your kid under control. Maybe it sets off the light bulb they need to do something differently. Hearing directly from the parent.....could work.

Then again, I guess it could run in the family and it could be a confrontation. So advice taken!



Explain to me how he is going to get his five year old under control??


Have you had any experience with 5 year olds? Not trying to be a wise ass, honestly. They are half in this world and half in la-la land.

That all said, I’m talking a big conciliatory game, but it’s not my kid this terrible thing happened too, and that paternal instinct can come on strong at times. No offense intended if I sound too preachy!
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