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NFT: My 5 y/o kid head split open

penkap75 : 2/13/2020 2:39 pm
So yesterday at work, I get a call from my wife hysterical. My 5 y/o son was dropped off from his bus with the back of his head split open and bleeding everywhere from a laceration, clothes soaked in blood. Another 5 year old who has a history of being an asshole, tackled my son, and drove his head hard enough into the bus floor to cut it open. My son had to have 3 staples placed to stop the bleeding.

This bully kid has a history of being violent, and apparently the bus driver decided to seat my non violent calm son next to this kid thinking he would cause less trouble. They have assigned seats, and my kid normally sits no where close to this kid. Bus driver also acted like it was nothing, a just slapped a tissue on my kids head and continue with the drop offs as usual.

So today, my wife talks the principal who is blowing this off as an accident and not even disciplining the kid who assaulted my kid. She sat my kid and bully together and made them say it was accident and he is sorry. She is putting words in my kids mouth, because my kid was clearly saying the other kid tackled him intentionally.

This is in the Roslyn school district of Long Island, and I'm not paying a shitload of school taxes to have my 5 y/o kid's head split open on the bus. I would have stayed in Brooklyn if I wanted my kids beaten up. I'm not a litigious guy (I hate lawyers), but the school is blowing us off as a a nothing incident.

Need advice on what to do. I want to beat the shit out of the other kid's parents, but they won't even tell us the full name and contact info the bully kid.
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Sorry to see this  
Gap92 : 2/13/2020 2:44 pm : link
Shitty situation. As the parent of another non-violent 5-year old boy, I feel your pain and am pissed off on your behalf.

I'm not sure what the options are here. Speaking to the Board of Ed is an option, but if your LI board is anything like my Board here in CT, it's likely a waste of time.

I hope your little dude feels better and is separated from the bully kid from here on out.
penkap  
Chris684 : 2/13/2020 2:48 pm : link
First off, I wish your son a speedy recovery.

Young children are far more resilient than we are so hang in there. I have two children younger than him so I can understand how you're feeling.

I'm not sure what you can do but I'd sure as hell look into finding out who is most responsible between the school, bus driver/bus company, kids parents, but again I don't know if there's a way.

All the best to your son.

Sorry to hear  
bigblue5611_2 : 2/13/2020 2:48 pm : link
and I am pissed off for you to even read that.

Can't say I can give the correct course of action, but I would certainly consult legal opinions if the school is blowing this off as a non-issue.
I'm not a parent  
allstarjim : 2/13/2020 2:49 pm : link
And reading this story pisses me the fuck off.

I would contact a lawyer for sure. The school is failing to protect your son. This kid is getting away with this kind of behavior, what's it going to take before they take this shit seriously? Some kid to be maimed for life or worse?
Go over the Principle's head  
montanagiant : 2/13/2020 2:50 pm : link
To the Supervisor. I'd also get the media involved. Local papers love stuff like this
Basically what winds up happening is the bus driver gets fired.....  
WideRight : 2/13/2020 2:52 pm : link
And life goes on.

If need you a little cash to cover the hospital bill, you could probably get it, but it wouldn't cover your lawyer's bill.

The bully kid has identified himself as a problem child, and the school will know this and transition him to a "special learnig" pathway within a few years.
Hope your little guy is OK first off  
Shecky : 2/13/2020 2:54 pm : link
Two pieces of advice
1) know what outcome you want in advance. You will quickly get frustrated and angry getting blown off and lose focus of the outcome - this is guaranteed to happen. So know your goal in advance, the outcome you and your wife want

2) know why you are being blown off. Two reasons, they’re kids and this stuff is common. Not to you, but to the school system. Secondly, they want it swept under the rug because they know it can quickly become a big freakin deal if they let it...

Best of luck, expect the frustrations, and once again hope the little guy is ok
Sorry for your little guy....and you don't want him to fear going on  
No Where Man : 2/13/2020 2:56 pm : link
that bus every day. If you Google "Education Lawyers" you will find ample Legal Help with Bullying. I would be looking at the following who may be liable:

(1) The School itself
(2) The Principal
(3) The Bus Driver

Schools must do everything in their power to prevent Bullying incidents. From what you're saying, they did the bare minimum.

Money is not the issue.  
penkap75 : 2/13/2020 2:57 pm : link
It's a $40 copay to get my kids head stitched up.

Its just a matter of justice.

I feel like the principal is just trying to sweep it under the rug like nothing happened and the bully kid gets away with it.

I can't even talk to the parents since its protected info they won't disclose. I would love to settle it the old school way with the father.

okay  
BleedBlue : 2/13/2020 2:58 pm : link
so here is my two cents

This is WILDLY unfortunate what happened to your son and the bully kid...things will catch up to him.

that being said they are young boys and shit happens. the school really isnt going to do much of anything. IF anything, you would need the bus driver to witness it and say to the school the bully 100% meant to hurt your son...different story. the likely story is the kid was just being a jackass and tackled your son not trying to hurt him intentionally but just being a jackass little kid.

IF the driver attests that he intentionally tried to hurt your son, the school can suspend or expell the student.

as for you wanting retaliation, i understand and it makes sense, but beating his parents doesnt solve much of anything as you will surely be charged yourself and your son will be left with staples and a father in jail lol

the best way to combat this? teach your kids it is not appropriate but also teach your kids to defend themselves. not much your son could have done here to defend himself so i think this as mentioned is just an unfortunate, unpreventable event. there will always be bullies...teach your son how to box.
sorry this happened to your boy
call a lawyer and get the media involved  
Strahan91 : 2/13/2020 2:58 pm : link
I know it's not what you want to do but I know this school district very well (in fully transparency it has been 15 years). They really will only respond to measures that are likely to cast the school district in a negative light publicly especially given what happened with Tassone and the HBO movie that's set to come out this year.
It should be fairly easy to find out who this kid is.  
Mr. Bungle : 2/13/2020 3:00 pm : link
Something seems a bit off about this story...
As Shecky said it helps to know what you want  
bhill410 : 2/13/2020 3:02 pm : link
I think a sound rational approach would be to write to the supervisor while ccing the principal and explain that you are not seeking damages from this school or anything of that nature but feel that they are not taking correct measures in addressing what could be a children’s violent behavior and that you are worried about the safety of other children. Indicate that you would like to see the video (if it exists) regarding the incident. Most Bus’s have recordings now. Restate that while you do not wish to obtain an attorney but that you are willing to if they continue to fail to address the children’s behavior.
For those talking about lawyers:  
Mike from SI : 2/13/2020 3:03 pm : link
most lawyers who would take this case would do so on a contingent fee, so you wouldn't have to "risk" money or worry about "losing" money. And you'd be suing the school and the bus company for negligent supervision, not the kid or his parents.

A lot of people don't like going that route, and I get it; just giving you what little bit I know.
RE: It should be fairly easy to find out who this kid is.  
penkap75 : 2/13/2020 3:05 pm : link
In comment 14810613 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
Something seems a bit off about this story...


All we know is the kids 1st name. They won't give us any other info. The kid is not in any of classes of my kid, they just take the same bus.
Say what you want about Brooklyn  
jcn56 : 2/13/2020 3:07 pm : link
my kids never got beaten up, or their heads split open.

Hope he's feeling better!
Regarding lawyers...  
penkap75 : 2/13/2020 3:09 pm : link
Lawyers are in it for the money. Its a $40 co-pay, I don't see any lawyer thinking this is worth their while.

I will escalate to the superintendent, but I get the feeling nothing will a happen.

I also have a feeling that because I am asian, they are blowing us off since asians aren't suppose to make a ruckus. But if the want us to make ruckus, I'm willing to play.
Sometimes a punch in the nose  
Sec 103 : 2/13/2020 3:10 pm : link
is the best remedy.....
RE: RE: It should be fairly easy to find out who this kid is.  
Mr. Bungle : 2/13/2020 3:11 pm : link
In comment 14810619 penkap75 said:
Quote:
In comment 14810613 Mr. Bungle said:


Quote:


Something seems a bit off about this story...



All we know is the kids 1st name. They won't give us any other info. The kid is not in any of classes of my kid, they just take the same bus.

When the bus drops your kid off, your wife goes on the bus and tells your son to point out the kid who did it. Your wife asks the kid for his first and last name.
RE: RE: It should be fairly easy to find out who this kid is.  
pjcas18 : 2/13/2020 3:13 pm : link
In comment 14810619 penkap75 said:
Quote:
In comment 14810613 Mr. Bungle said:


Quote:


Something seems a bit off about this story...



All we know is the kids 1st name. They won't give us any other info. The kid is not in any of classes of my kid, they just take the same bus.


Do some simple detective work. Follow the school bus, see where he gets on or off the bus, then get to that bus stop really early stake out the area and see what house he comes out of.

then beat the hell out of that 5-year old bully and his parents.

seriously though if you want to find out who he is it's not hard.

but most importantly, the only advice I will offer is I would not involve the press or get loud about this until (if at all) you calm down and do some minor checking on the incident.

I had a school incident that had me in my car racing to the kindergarten to beat the hell out of the kindergarten gym teacher until my wife got through to me that we didn't quite have the whole story.

I have learned a lot over the years and as important as our children are to us, restraint and patience are strong and critical virtues in child raising. Children take emotional cues from parents. Think of that with how you act during this.

And pursue whatever you want, I am offering no advice on the next steps, that's up to you.
Sorry this had to happen to your son.  
johnnyb : 2/13/2020 3:15 pm : link
Attorneys speak louder than words.
If you haven't already  
magnum4413 : 2/13/2020 3:15 pm : link
report this as a HIB violation to the school officially. They cannot ignore it and have to thoroughly investigate it by law.

If not, they really get sued. I am in Jersey but I am sure the process is similar, if not the same, in new york.

HIB = Harassment, Intimidation, and Bullying.
Sadly..  
KDavies : 2/13/2020 3:15 pm : link
I could tell you about a couple dozen similar stories with friends' kids with similar results, and my kids go to school in a county right next to a county with a high profile school shooting. Same results.

Death threats. Violence. Hit lists. Police do jack crap, saying the school police have to handle it. School does nothing because they don't want it to reflect poorly on the school. Kids are back at school. No punishment, minimal at best. Nothing happens.

Then something really bad happens and everyone scratches their heads.
something I know firsthand  
Greg from LI : 2/13/2020 3:18 pm : link
Call as many people from the school and school system as you can - the principal, administrators, school board members, whoever. This is of supreme importance - TAKE DETAILED NOTES OF EACH AND EVERY CALL! Note the time, date, who you talked to, what was said. What you want to do is, in case they're blowing you off and not taking this seriously, to establish that you repeatedly tried to handle this through official channels and been stonewalled. If you do have to get a lawyer to get anything done, that paper trail will be invaluable.
To start I would try to make sure I had the whole story  
Jim in Forest Hills : 2/13/2020 3:18 pm : link
are there any other kids you can ask if they witnessed it.

Not saying your son isn't telling the truth, just that different people see different things.

If its confirmed, I would set in person meetings with the principal and the superintendent, WHOEVER will take the meeting.

Make sure you note that you need an IN PERSON meeting and that you will not accept an email or phone call.

Bring pictures and medical reports to the meeting, any corroborating info you have found and lay your cards out on the table.

They don't want the in person meeting to start, especially knowing you are coming in hot.

You should get an appropriate response.
Go back and meet with the principal again  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 2/13/2020 3:20 pm : link
tell him you are really dissatisfied with the outcome of this incident and that you feel that your son was "bullied" and deliberately injured. Use the word "bullied" (school's are terrified of that word). And tell him you did not go to a lawyer because you think this can be settled appropriately but that your interest is to protect your son.
I get that you're frustrated, but I'm not sure  
JesseS : 2/13/2020 3:21 pm : link
you're being Asian has much to do with it. If it doesn't, you probably have bigger fish to fry. It also probably was not the intent of a 5 year old to split your son's head open - it just happened as a result of a kid being aggressive. Kids do things like that to each other. It's happened to mine many times. And I certainly didn't like it, but I'm not sure there's anything to do. Are they going to suspend the child? Publicly shame the parents? If they feel the kid was acting out of control, as is typical, they probably have reached out to the parents many times and under no circumstances would they tell you - and for good reason. They don't need parents going after other parents for 5 year old aggression, even if someone like a busted head happens as a result. I also think that going to the paper is impossibly stupid.

I would, however, take issue with the way the bus driver didn't immediately react to it as an emergency. That's within the scope of being a responsible parent. I'd probably go to the superintendent based on that alone.
It happened to my brother when I was in grade school  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 2/13/2020 3:26 pm : link
My Mom flipped her shit at the school board.
I have to say I'm really surprised  
Leg of Theismann : 2/13/2020 3:27 pm : link
the school isn't disciplining the kid. Especially if he tackled your son and it sounds like that was purposeful. Maybe the splitting his head open part wasn't purposeful, but that doesn't matter, if he tackled him on purpose he basically assaulted your kid. If it was hard enough to hurt your child then it definitely should be disciplined. I don't buy this whole "it was just an accident." Even if they were just "horsing around" or whatever, the bully kid still crossed the line and should be disciplined so that in the future he hopefully knows to take it easy and not cross a certain line.

You absolutely could sue the school for the medical expenses by the way. I'm surprised they aren't more worried about you doing that. I remember I slipped on ice when I was 10 and broke my front teeth and it happened on school property. The freaking principal was in the nurse's office accompanying me until my mom got there and even called my house later to make sure I was okay. It was obvious they were trying to stay on our good side to avoid a lawsuit lol. Of course my parents didn't blame the school for it and had no inclination to sue the school, they understood that shit happens and it wasn't the school's fault. But in this instance since the school is being shitty about it I would absolutely think about going down that road.
Pen  
Anakim : 2/13/2020 3:32 pm : link
Some at my firm practice Education Law (but I don't). If you want, you can email me and I can email the partners so they can discuss your case.
I work in education.  
robbieballs2003 : 2/13/2020 3:33 pm : link
A one time incident does not constitute bullying. It is almost always something that happens repeatedly. So, if you want to file this under HIB you are going to have to show that which you obviously do not have. On the other hand, if you can show that this other kid has a history then that may hold more weight. The problem is you really cannot do that. Someone else will have to do that for you and when you are dealing with 5 year olds I don't think they'll take that as seriously as they should.
I'm very sorry this happened to  
ATL_Giants : 2/13/2020 3:46 pm : link
your son. I wish I had answers for you.
I think the advice from pj was good  
Mike from Ohio : 2/13/2020 3:50 pm : link
Not the stalking...the idea that kids take emotional queues from their parents. Getting yourself worked up, involving lawyers and the media may underscore to your son that he is a victim, and what happened to him is horrible. Making a big deal out of it may also bring even more attention that your son may not want.

My suggestion would be to tell your son to sit elsewhere on the bus. Send him with a note from you and your wife that you don't want him sitting with a kid who has been violent. If the driver makes him sit there, call the principal.

Believe me, I understand the desire to find the kid's dad and kick the crap out of him. I am a father and have had similar reactions. But I am (slowly) learning that really never is the best answer.

I hope your boy is doing better and this is behind both of you.
RE: Go back and meet with the principal again  
section125 : 2/13/2020 3:55 pm : link
In comment 14810635 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
tell him you are really dissatisfied with the outcome of this incident and that you feel that your son was "bullied" and deliberately injured. Use the word "bullied" (school's are terrified of that word). And tell him you did not go to a lawyer because you think this can be settled appropriately but that your interest is to protect your son.


This is the way. Go back and see the principal. Follow up with calling the school superintendent's office and say you are dissatisfied with the principal's action. Demand your son never sits near the other kid or ask for the other kid to be removed from the bus for the month or you will seek legal remedies. I also think the school board is liable for your cost for the injury so submit it with the reason.

The bus driver is a $15/hr jockey - hard to blame them when driving on that part of LI is a nightmare. I guess they don't have monitors on the buses on LI?

Unfortunately  
BigBlue2112 : 2/13/2020 3:56 pm : link
Schools need DATA. one time issues will all likely be swept under the rug. My fiance is a teacher and had a 2nd grade student stab her with a pen in the thigh during a rage filled tantrum. left a nice mark. School needs to build a case before removing the kid from her class. Need to document every single thing the kid does from now until the end of the year. Parents are sue happy and the districts seem to be more inclined to cover their ass whenever possible instead of taking action.

In your case, be the squeaky wheel. Make everyone who's anyone in that district aware of who this kid is and what they did to your child. Once this kid's on their radar and acts up again, they will be more inclined to intervene
...  
26.2 : 2/13/2020 3:59 pm : link
He said this kid has a history of bullying.
RE: ...  
robbieballs2003 : 2/13/2020 4:06 pm : link
In comment 14810671 26.2 said:
Quote:
He said this kid has a history of bullying.




I'm being funny. But, seriously, just because someone says there is a history doesn't mean it is so. You have to prove it and all this father can do is point to this one incident hence him not even knowing who the other kid is. So, who is responsible to show the history? The school? Good luck with that. If this kid wasn't in trouble for this incident I het the school also didn't document a lot of other incidents as well. At that point it just becomes this one incident.
I hope your boy is ok,  
smshmth8690 : 2/13/2020 4:12 pm : link
this pisses me off reading it. Made me think of this video below.
True Detective - Bully - ( New Window )
RE: Regarding lawyers...  
Strahan91 : 2/13/2020 4:14 pm : link
In comment 14810623 penkap75 said:
Quote:
Lawyers are in it for the money. Its a $40 co-pay, I don't see any lawyer thinking this is worth their while.

I will escalate to the superintendent, but I get the feeling nothing will a happen.

I also have a feeling that because I am asian, they are blowing us off since asians aren't suppose to make a ruckus. But if the want us to make ruckus, I'm willing to play.

You don't actually want to sue. You want to scare the district into taking more aggressive measures to ensure your kid's safety. The way to do that (again at least when I lived in Roslyn) is to make it seem like you are willing to lose money to make a point. IE, talk to a lawyer that would be willing to detail out the steps that they will take if x,y,z isn't done to protect your kid. Do you have a family member or friend who's a lawyer by chance?
RE: RE: ...  
26.2 : 2/13/2020 4:16 pm : link
In comment 14810678 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 14810671 26.2 said:


Quote:


He said this kid has a history of bullying.





I'm being funny. But, seriously, just because someone says there is a history doesn't mean it is so. You have to prove it and all this father can do is point to this one incident hence him not even knowing who the other kid is. So, who is responsible to show the history? The school? Good luck with that. If this kid wasn't in trouble for this incident I het the school also didn't document a lot of other incidents as well. At that point it just becomes this one incident.


Understood. I'm only going by what he said from the beginning.
RE: I work in education.  
Bill L : 2/13/2020 4:18 pm : link
In comment 14810649 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
A one time incident does not constitute bullying. It is almost always something that happens repeatedly. So, if you want to file this under HIB you are going to have to show that which you obviously do not have. On the other hand, if you can show that this other kid has a history then that may hold more weight. The problem is you really cannot do that. Someone else will have to do that for you and when you are dealing with 5 year olds I don't think they'll take that as seriously as they should.


Sounds to me that the already has been a tacit admission to bullying. If the OP is correct, the bus driver sat his son near the aggressor specifically because he thought it would head off abusive behavior. You can't do that without some prior knowledge or experience.
RE: Regarding lawyers...  
Bill L : 2/13/2020 4:19 pm : link
In comment 14810623 penkap75 said:
Quote:

...
I also have a feeling that because I am asian, they are blowing us off since asians aren't suppose to make a ruckus. But if the want us to make ruckus, I'm willing to play.


Now this part gives me flashbacks to being in grade school. I thought we had evolved.
I coached and any injury had to be reported immediately  
robbieballs2003 : 2/13/2020 4:21 pm : link
if the family wanted to have any leverage. If a kid had an injury and went home they ran the risk of the school turning around and saying how do we know that didn't happen when the kid went home?

My point is that if this kid was injured and had to go to the hospital to get staples that is something that 100% should be documented and reimbursed for since this happened under their watch. Now, that is just the financial aspect of it. As an administrator, this has to be documented and not just filed under an accident.

I'm sorry, I accidentally pushed someone in front of a car. It is okay though because it was an accident. Intent doesn't really matter. It is the outcome. Any administrator that is trying to downplay this is an asshole.
RE: RE: I work in education.  
robbieballs2003 : 2/13/2020 4:23 pm : link
In comment 14810686 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14810649 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


A one time incident does not constitute bullying. It is almost always something that happens repeatedly. So, if you want to file this under HIB you are going to have to show that which you obviously do not have. On the other hand, if you can show that this other kid has a history then that may hold more weight. The problem is you really cannot do that. Someone else will have to do that for you and when you are dealing with 5 year olds I don't think they'll take that as seriously as they should.



Sounds to me that the already has been a tacit admission to bullying. If the OP is correct, the bus driver sat his son near the aggressor specifically because he thought it would head off abusive behavior. You can't do that without some prior knowledge or experience.


Being aggressive doesn't mean bullying. Yes, there could be. I'm saying that in order to call it bullying you have to show repeated behavior. Maybe that is the case and most likely is. But it could also be something stupid like a 5 year old just being very energetic by not sitting down, yelling, etc. We don't know the full story.
RE: Hope your little guy is OK first off  
RasputinPrime : 2/13/2020 4:25 pm : link
In comment 14810607 Shecky said:
Quote:
Two pieces of advice
1) know what outcome you want in advance. You will quickly get frustrated and angry getting blown off and lose focus of the outcome - this is guaranteed to happen. So know your goal in advance, the outcome you and your wife want

2) know why you are being blown off. Two reasons, they’re kids and this stuff is common. Not to you, but to the school system. Secondly, they want it swept under the rug because they know it can quickly become a big freakin deal if they let it...

Best of luck, expect the frustrations, and once again hope the little guy is ok


Exactly right.

Assess both of these and you will know what to do next.
Sorry about that  
HoodieGelo : 2/13/2020 4:29 pm : link
makes me sick to my stomach when stuff like this happens to innocent kids. Truthfully, I'd drive my kid home from school one day and follow that fucking bus the entire way until my kid points out the bully and then follow the bully to his house and have a nice talk with the parents.

Is that going too far? I don't give a damn. You don't mess with my kid, period.
Have not read all the comments  
Jay in Toronto : 2/13/2020 4:34 pm : link
I hope your son has a quick and full recovery. Head injuries can really bleed.

My sense is that they are doing everything to deflect any hint of litigation. I would try to find a non-lawyer professional dealing with bullying etc to try to get the school (and hopefully the other family) to acknowledge there is a problem and work it through in that way before you go seek legal redress.

What are you really after?
RE: Sorry about that  
section125 : 2/13/2020 4:35 pm : link
In comment 14810699 HoodieGelo said:
Quote:
makes me sick to my stomach when stuff like this happens to innocent kids. Truthfully, I'd drive my kid home from school one day and follow that fucking bus the entire way until my kid points out the bully and then follow the bully to his house and have a nice talk with the parents.

Is that going too far? I don't give a damn. You don't mess with my kid, period.


The parents didn't mess with penkap's kid. Their kid was the cause.
RE: Sorry about that  
robbieballs2003 : 2/13/2020 4:35 pm : link
In comment 14810699 HoodieGelo said:
Quote:
makes me sick to my stomach when stuff like this happens to innocent kids. Truthfully, I'd drive my kid home from school one day and follow that fucking bus the entire way until my kid points out the bully and then follow the bully to his house and have a nice talk with the parents.

Is that going too far? I don't give a damn. You don't mess with my kid, period.


I'd probably do that but when you think about it you totally fuck yourself. The other parents can say you are harassing them. Then you are now the problem.

I'm an asshole when I have to be but is it too much to ask for that family to apologize to you? I mean, if my son was the one that caused the injury I would take my son's ass over to that house and make him apologize right away and see if there is anything I can do to help alleviate the situation. Does that happen anymore? Fuck no. Nobody takes accountability for their actions anymore.
Sorry  
Simms : 2/13/2020 4:44 pm : link
I very sorry to hear about your situation. I hope for a speedy recovery. The trama has ripple effects and overlaps into family mindset and can linger.

My friend's family has a bus company for over 60 years and his bus streams and records data. It's not uncommon when an event to occur to assign a monitor to a bus and have a child assigned to another pickup location.

Hope this helps in some way.
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