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How Lorenzo Carter Has Been Misused in the Giants Defense

gidiefor : Mod : 2/13/2020 4:35 pm
Quote:
One of the many mysteries of the 2019 season was why, despite all kinds of promise and enthusiasm, second-year outside linebacker Lorenzo Carter failed to take the step forward many people thought he was capable of making.

To recap, Carter, out of the University of Georgia, saw a bump in defensive snaps, from 442 as a rookie to 723 in his second season. Despite that increase, he only finished with two more tackles, a half more sacks, and six more total pressures.

Before we go and dust off the “bust” label, it’s essential to review how he was used in now-former defensive coordinator James Bettcher’s defense, and then spin ahead to how new defensive coordinator Patrick Graham might take better advantage of Carter’s skill set.


imo - interesting analysis concluding that Carter needs to be playing the 9 technique more often -- Bettcher used Golden in the role the author says Carter plays best at
- more by Gene Clemons of SI.com - - ( New Window )
From you post  
BigBill : 2/13/2020 4:39 pm : link
And article to God’s ears!! 🙏
Interesting  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/13/2020 4:41 pm : link
article on using him in a better alignment, but at the end of the day (hate that expression), you also have to beat the man in front of you and make a play.
At the end of the day  
David B. : 2/13/2020 4:44 pm : link
Dave Gettleman's favorite cliche' is "at the end of the day."
I'd love to see him as an ILB  
robbieballs2003 : 2/13/2020 4:45 pm : link
I think he can play very well there. That doesn't mean all the time but in certain packages it makes sense.
Interesting read  
mfsd : 2/13/2020 4:52 pm : link
Recalls Judge’s comments about not being beholden to any one defensive alignment or scheme, but rather being able to adapt to take advantage of the strengths of your players.

I recall this being a criticism from some during the later years of the Coughlin regime...drafting guys and forcing them into roles they weren’t best suited for. Clint Sintim being an example

Being “multiple” all sounds good in theory, of course. Now let’s see if the Giants can deliver improvement on the field
Actually, I believe...  
GA5 : 2/13/2020 5:04 pm : link
the rights to "at the end of the day" belong to Antrel Rolle.
You could  
Professor Falken : 2/13/2020 5:04 pm : link
ask the same question about a bunch of players being misused:

Barkley, Baker, Engram, etc.
RE: You could  
robbieballs2003 : 2/13/2020 5:07 pm : link
In comment 14810726 Professor Falken said:
Quote:
ask the same question about a bunch of players being misused:

Barkley, Baker, Engram, etc.


Why stop there? Daniel Jones ran less than Eli and when I mean ran less I mean designed bootlegs and plays like that.
Wonder if DG means a 24 hour day or  
NYRiese : 2/13/2020 5:08 pm : link
just the "day" light portion of the day?
At the end of the day...  
Jim in Tampa : 2/13/2020 5:10 pm : link
the sun will still come up.

- Joba Chamberlain
the roster  
broadbandz : 2/13/2020 5:37 pm : link
wasnt an all-star team but we could have won a lot more games if the coaching actually used these guys in better ways. Some of the defensive game planning was just god awful. I think back to Williams being on the sidelines during OT in the eagles game.
Betcher another  
LauderdaleMatty : 2/13/2020 5:40 pm : link
scheme first idiot. People always want to copy Bill B except they never really try. Is it that hard a concept to use a players abilities to fit what they actually do best?

Guy was a a disaster and the opposite of what he was billed as
RE: At the end of the day...  
NYRiese : 2/13/2020 5:54 pm : link
In comment 14810732 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
the sun will still come up.

- Joba Chamberlain

Actually that popular expression should read "...still come around", and the whole world adds the hope of "again".
Not often a player with his body type  
JonC : 2/13/2020 5:59 pm : link
excels at Edge in the NFL. He's not particularly explosive downhill, nor instinctive or quick twitch, etc.
Two things stick out from reading that article  
jcn56 : 2/13/2020 6:41 pm : link
One - with all the talk about 'multiples' the insinuation was that Carter was not good at a pretty basic responsibility for his position.

Two - it doesn't address how his deployment changed in year 2. He got a lot more snaps - was he permanently moved out of position for Golden? How often did he line up inside vs out?
Carter was a pretty good player in the SEC  
LBH15 : 2/13/2020 6:52 pm : link
but he wasn't excellent and certainly wasn't elite.

He has now played two years on defense with a lot of bad players who seemingly were not well coached either. I think the expectations have been a bit too high.

Lets see how Year 3 goes for him.
Carter was disappointing any way you cut it...  
Torrag : 2/13/2020 6:54 pm : link
he got a lot of reps. You have to find a way to make a play. I don't see the explosive first step or natural bend of a pass rusher. I don't see him winning physical matchups setting the edge on run plays. So what is he? I agree I'd like to see him play some ILB and assess him there.
Player was misused  
Gman11 : 2/13/2020 7:07 pm : link
Definition: I thought he was going to be a good player and he isn't.

If I remember correctly his production wasn't all that great in college either.
He seemed to start playing  
section125 : 2/13/2020 7:13 pm : link
better toward the end of the year. Seemed more reckless or determined.
Jesse Armstead didn't see the field as a rookie  
WillieYoung : 2/13/2020 7:37 pm : link
except on special teams. he probably had fewer than 500 snaps his second year. Blossomed in his third year if memory serves me. Carter is just another guy who is playing only because we are so bad. Maybe next year he is actually able to earn his reps and contribute.
Blaming the coaching staff is nonsense.
Not once in two years of game reviews....  
Racer : 2/13/2020 7:48 pm : link
...did Sy ever HINT that the player wasn't being used correctly. These national media types really get away with pumping out some ill-informed, backwards bullshit that does nothing more than make it harder to have a legitimate discussion.
seems like everyone on this defense has been misused  
MM_in_NYC : 2/13/2020 7:52 pm : link
at some point. mostly because they were used at all. others because there were not better players to play essential positions. others because coaches were wrong.
RE: I'd love to see him as an ILB  
Ivan15 : 2/13/2020 8:12 pm : link
In comment 14810714 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
I think he can play very well there. That doesn't mean all the time but in certain packages it makes sense.


I agree with Robbie. The highlights I saw at UGA had him playing inside and he did well. Never understood why they tried to make him an edge rusher.
I hope this crop of college teachers can do better than Shurmur’s  
Ivan15 : 2/13/2020 8:15 pm : link
Pros.
Carter's stats  
bc4life : 2/13/2020 8:26 pm : link
4.5 sacks

1 forced fumble

6 tackles for loss

13 QB hits

19 QB hurries
link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: You could  
blueblood : 2/13/2020 10:49 pm : link
In comment 14810728 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 14810726 Professor Falken said:


Quote:


ask the same question about a bunch of players being misused:

Barkley, Baker, Engram, etc.



Why stop there? Daniel Jones ran less than Eli and when I mean ran less I mean designed bootlegs and plays like that.


THIS !!!! boggled my mind all year.. the guy who CAN run.. we dont run.. the gut who is a lampost we rolling him out.. WTH Shurmur??
RE: RE: RE: You could  
MM_in_NYC : 2/13/2020 11:29 pm : link
In comment 14810905 blueblood said:
Quote:
In comment 14810728 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


In comment 14810726 Professor Falken said:


Quote:


ask the same question about a bunch of players being misused:

Barkley, Baker, Engram, etc.



Why stop there? Daniel Jones ran less than Eli and when I mean ran less I mean designed bootlegs and plays like that.



THIS !!!! boggled my mind all year.. the guy who CAN run.. we dont run.. the gut who is a lampost we rolling him out.. WTH Shurmur??


did you see how jones took hits? he was getting crunched repeatedly. he has not figured out how to protect himself or the ball yet. i'm ok with him not getting killed until he shows he can handle nfl hits better.
RE: RE: RE: You could  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 2/14/2020 2:39 am : link
In comment 14810905 blueblood said:
Quote:
In comment 14810728 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


In comment 14810726 Professor Falken said:


Quote:


ask the same question about a bunch of players being misused:

Barkley, Baker, Engram, etc.



Why stop there? Daniel Jones ran less than Eli and when I mean ran less I mean designed bootlegs and plays like that.



THIS !!!! boggled my mind all year.. the guy who CAN run.. we dont run.. the gut who is a lampost we rolling him out.. WTH Shurmur??

Baffling. Is there a formation or play that completely counters a rollout?
RE: At the end of the day  
Tuckrule : 2/14/2020 5:50 am : link
In comment 14810712 David B. said:
Quote:
Dave Gettleman's favorite cliche' is "at the end of the day."


That’s Antrel Rolle
Judge keeps saying  
Bubba : 2/14/2020 6:27 am : link
how he plans on using a players strengths. Time will tell.
RE: RE: RE: RE: You could  
robbieballs2003 : 2/14/2020 6:59 am : link
In comment 14810917 MM_in_NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 14810905 blueblood said:


Quote:


In comment 14810728 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


In comment 14810726 Professor Falken said:


Quote:


ask the same question about a bunch of players being misused:

Barkley, Baker, Engram, etc.



Why stop there? Daniel Jones ran less than Eli and when I mean ran less I mean designed bootlegs and plays like that.



THIS !!!! boggled my mind all year.. the guy who CAN run.. we dont run.. the gut who is a lampost we rolling him out.. WTH Shurmur??



did you see how jones took hits? he was getting crunched repeatedly. he has not figured out how to protect himself or the ball yet. i'm ok with him not getting killed until he shows he can handle nfl hits better.


Not sure I understand this. Where did most of his hits occur? Oh, that's right, in the pocket holding the ball too long so maybe we should never run any drop back passes then. I'm not suggesting he take off running and take hits that way. I'm suggest moving the pocket around for multiple reasons such as giving him the option to throw the ball away or buy time for receivers to get open or making quick easy reads to get the ball out of his hands quickly. He also has the ability to run out of bounds as well.
Even if this is true, which I don't believe  
Matt M. : 2/14/2020 7:38 am : link
then what would you do with Golden if you re-sign him? For better or worse, he was our best defensive player. You move in the hopes that it clicks for Carter? I don't think so.
We will see  
UberAlias : 2/14/2020 7:50 am : link
Fans eat up this sort of thing in the offseason —it’s the guy who’s gone’s fault and with these changes some player who hasn’t lived up will be really good. Sometimes it does, but often it doesn’t happen that way.
RE: Jesse Armstead didn't see the field as a rookie  
Bernie : 2/14/2020 10:01 am : link
In comment 14810825 WillieYoung said:
Quote:
except on special teams. he probably had fewer than 500 snaps his second year. Blossomed in his third year if memory serves me. Carter is just another guy who is playing only because we are so bad. Maybe next year he is actually able to earn his reps and contribute.
Blaming the coaching staff is nonsense.


Jesse Armstead flashed early and just need to bide his time. You could see his talent. Not sure I have seen anything from Carter to make me believe he will ever blossom.
RE: We will see  
Klaatu : 2/14/2020 10:10 am : link
In comment 14810961 UberAlias said:
Quote:
Fans eat up this sort of thing in the offseason —it’s the guy who’s gone’s fault and with these changes some player who hasn’t lived up will be really good. Sometimes it does, but often it doesn’t happen that way.


When one second-year player fails to improve on a good rookie season, that's probably on him. When three second-year players fail to improve on good rookie seasons, you could make a case that scheme and coaching had something to do with it.
RE: Judge keeps saying  
christian : 2/14/2020 10:16 am : link
In comment 14810935 Bubba said:
Quote:
how he plans on using a players strengths. Time will tell.


The ultimate success of the defense is completely predicated on the ceiling of those strengths.

There's no guarantee mixing the ingredients in a different way will produce a better outcome.
Armstead was a special teams demon before he became starting LB  
Greg from LI : 2/14/2020 10:17 am : link
.
from giants.com Inside the Film Room - Lorenzo Carter  
bc4life : 2/14/2020 10:29 am : link
It's highlights and obviously insufficient sample size to render a judgment but some good technique on film
link - ( New Window )
I disagree with the initial premise  
santacruzom : 2/14/2020 1:06 pm : link
That Carter's 2nd year performance was a "mystery." It's not often that a promising young Giants player improves upon -- or even simply maintains -- that promising early performance.
This article gives me some hope  
5BowlsSoon : 2/14/2020 5:04 pm : link
I hope Judge and coaches mean what they say.
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