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Former Giants DE Dave Tollefson 'not a fan' of Jerry Reese,

DRich1980 : 2/14/2020 1:01 pm
He didn't hold back I think it's a great read...This I just a little bit of what he said

Speaking of Manning, Tollefson also expressed his displeasure about how the former regime wasted the two-time Super Bowl MVP’s prime years following Super Bowl XLVI. Tollefson feels the roster they surrounded the quarterback with from 2013-2019 was inexcusable and hurt Manning’s legacy.
https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2020/02/14/former-new-york-giants-dave-tollefson-not-fan-jerry-reese-marc-ross/
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Just a reminder that our current GM  
bluepepper : 2/14/2020 2:20 pm : link
has a host of former players who are not fans. And we're talking quality NFL players not marginal ones. If you take those guys with a grain of salt then take Tollefson with less than that.
RE: RE: LOL - Dave Tollefson believes he was the missing  
jcn56 : 2/14/2020 2:24 pm : link
In comment 14811274 clatterbuck said:
Quote:
In comment 14811232 jcn56 said:


Quote:


ingredient in prolonging that championship run.

Where the hell is Frank Ferrara when you need him, right?



Wrong. That's not what Tollefson said. Not even close.


Not even close? Not the only missing ingredient obviously, but...

Quote:
“When they let us all go after 2011 and 2012, Jerry Reese didn’t give me close to a respectable offer after being third on the team with five sacks,” said Tollefson, who believes the team still had a chance to be playoff contenders had Reese kept the group together for another season or two.


Apparently giving ole Dave a roster spot wasn't enough, he wanted a respectable offer.

Reese built the teams that won two championships, then for whatever reason, Mark Ross, the game changed and he didn't follow along with it, he couldn't find a coach worth half a shit - he wasn't getting it done anymore. Injuries certainly didn't help, but it was much more than that.

Of course, since Reese has gone, they haven't exactly been tearing it up.
Reese built the teams that won two championships?  
Diver_Down : 2/14/2020 2:35 pm : link
Not according to Mara - he gave full credit to Ernie. Go back to Eli's retirement ceremony when Mara was speaking. No mention of Jerry and the credit was given to Accorsi.
RE: Linval Joseph was nothing special as a Giant  
Mike in Long Beach : 2/14/2020 2:37 pm : link
In comment 14811286 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Or even in his first season in Minnesota, when he was considered a bust of a signing by Viking fans. He didn't blossom until his second season in Minnesota.

There is so much revisionism when it comes to him.


What's the revisionist history? He was a good young player at the position, was allowed to walk, took a nice contract in Minnesota, and (eventually) played to the level of that contract and got an even bigger extension?

His numbers were good with the Giants and Minnesota rightfully saw even bigger things down the road and Reese didn't.
RE: I am still amazed at how big of an asshole Marc Ross is  
Diver_Down : 2/14/2020 2:39 pm : link
In comment 14811287 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
This is a guy what helped destroy this franchise the day he arrived. The Giants were among the league's worst drafting teams with him as the head of college scouting.

After he was fired he had the audacity to go on TV and criticize the lack of talent on the team taking absolutely no responsibility for the state of the franchise. This just shows his complete lack of awareness and credibility.

It's no surprise that he hasn't gotten another job in the NFL.


Comparing Marc and Jerry is like which stain in the toilet is worse. As terrible as Marc was, he has at least crawled out of the hole he has been hiding in and has even interview for GM positions. Jerry on the other hand isn't even black enough to get a sham Rooney Rule interview. Neither will ever work in the league again.
RE: Linval Joseph was nothing special as a Giant  
LauderdaleMatty : 2/14/2020 2:40 pm : link
In comment 14811286 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Or even in his first season in Minnesota, when he was considered a bust of a signing by Viking fans. He didn't blossom until his second season in Minnesota.

There is so much revisionism when it comes to him.


He was a very solid go above average starter. He was given a front loaded reasonable contract that Reese didn’t even try to over come. That he blossomed made it worse. The guarantee on That contract wasn’t much. I’d suggest Wilson over Glenn May be worse due to the horrific OL drafting but Reese and Ross together were about as bad as it gets. And Joseph earned a solid offer and he let him walk for Jay Fucking Bromley to get snaps if I recall now his name.

We will have to agree to disagree but it in a nutshell it shows how Reese’s special talent for letting one earlier mistake create 10 more was his true super power.
RE: Not all of us were duped by any means.  
Gettledogman : 2/14/2020 2:45 pm : link
In comment 14811243 Red Dog said:
Quote:
Some of us wanted Reese and Ross gone way back in 2012. But he lasted another half-dozen seasons thanks to John Mara.

What an unbelievable waste of time and talent.


Yes!
RE: RE: Linval Joseph was nothing special as a Giant  
Bavaro_the_Mafioso : 2/14/2020 2:58 pm : link
In comment 14811325 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
In comment 14811286 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


Or even in his first season in Minnesota, when he was considered a bust of a signing by Viking fans. He didn't blossom until his second season in Minnesota.

There is so much revisionism when it comes to him.



He was a very solid go above average starter. He was given a front loaded reasonable contract that Reese didn’t even try to over come. That he blossomed made it worse. The guarantee on That contract wasn’t much. I’d suggest Wilson over Glenn May be worse due to the horrific OL drafting but Reese and Ross together were about as bad as it gets. And Joseph earned a solid offer and he let him walk for Jay Fucking Bromley to get snaps if I recall now his name.

We will have to agree to disagree but it in a nutshell it shows how Reese’s special talent for letting one earlier mistake create 10 more was his true super power.


HAHA!! The super power line had me rolling.
I can recall all his  
Beef Wellington : 2/14/2020 3:24 pm : link
minions here proclaiming how he would be hired the following week he was let go. What a laugh!
I can recall all his  
Beef Wellington : 2/14/2020 3:24 pm : link
minions here proclaiming how he would be hired the following week he was let go. What a laugh!
RE: Whatever your opinion of Tollefson  
mattlawson : 2/14/2020 3:57 pm : link
In comment 14811238 Bavaro_the_Mafioso said:
Quote:
Reese and company pissed away some prime years.


Yes.
Linval Joseph had a good career here  
mattlawson : 2/14/2020 4:03 pm : link
Reese thought he could cheap out and draft guys like Marvin Austin to replace him. Let a guy like Martellus Bennett go for Brandon "turf monster" Myers. Clint Sintim. Adrian Robinson. The list goes on and on with projects over players - guys who never panned out. All the while NEVER rebuilding the line which was necessary to run the ball and keep a non-mobile qb able to do what he does and deliver 2 championships.

Case fucking closed.
RE: After Reese let him go  
Paulie Walnuts : 2/14/2020 4:43 pm : link
In comment 14811225 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
Dave played one season as a backup for Oakland at age 30 and never played another game

So I would say Reese made the right call. Linval was his big mistake

He also lost Steve Smith, Cruz Nicks and Wilson to career injuries. Ditto for Snee and Baas

That had a lot more to do with it than not resigning Jacobs, Tuck, Tolly etc

But the real mistake wasFlowers. Jerry might still be here if he had not stubbornly kept flowers at LT


It was more than Flowers.. you blow 5 straight drafts, you have to go.. people need to get off Reese's dick... Ross really sank him
RE: RE: I am still amazed at how big of an asshole Marc Ross is  
jcn56 : 2/14/2020 4:49 pm : link
In comment 14811324 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 14811287 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


This is a guy what helped destroy this franchise the day he arrived. The Giants were among the league's worst drafting teams with him as the head of college scouting.

After he was fired he had the audacity to go on TV and criticize the lack of talent on the team taking absolutely no responsibility for the state of the franchise. This just shows his complete lack of awareness and credibility.

It's no surprise that he hasn't gotten another job in the NFL.



Comparing Marc and Jerry is like which stain in the toilet is worse. As terrible as Marc was, he has at least crawled out of the hole he has been hiding in and has even interview for GM positions. Jerry on the other hand isn't even black enough to get a sham Rooney Rule interview. Neither will ever work in the league again.


Didn't Reese turn down an interview request with the Raiders?

I guess maybe better he stays away than what Coughlin did to Jacksonville in his second time around. They couldn't fire him (and only him) fast enough.
RE: RE: After Reese let him go  
Mark C : 2/14/2020 4:55 pm : link
In comment 14811284 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
In comment 14811225 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


Dave played one season as a backup for Oakland at age 30 and never played another game

So I would say Reese made the right call. Linval was his big mistake

He also lost Steve Smith, Cruz Nicks and Wilson to career injuries. Ditto for Snee and Baas

That had a lot more to do with it than not resigning Jacobs, Tuck, Tolly etc

But the real mistake wasFlowers. Jerry might still be here if he had not stubbornly kept flowers at LT




Posted this numerous times.

Wilson over Corey Glenn or Bobby Wagner. Sintim over Max Unger. The lost is a hell of a lot longer than people realize. Reese sealed his
Fate keeping hiring then keeping Ross.

And just as bad was OBJ over Donald or Martin. He loved playmakers at the risk of all else. His early success and being willing to let the Mara’s meddle constantly didn’t help.

Joseph walking cost them even more than many realize. Had to over pay Snacks and then drafted that stuff from Cuse. The fact that morons here still want to give him so much credit for the early years as a GM amazes
Me. He was a great scout. He was handed the team and destroyed it from within. So yeah. Thanks for your earlier work but if he gets hired again that team deserves to suck for as long as Cleveland


The OBJ pick was not a mistake. If we’d passed on him he would’ve gone to Dallas, and with the roster they’ve had since then, the Cowboys would’ve won a super bowl with OBJ. And even if not, the idea of that much talent and that much asshole playing for that team would’ve been too much to bear..
RE: RE: RE: I am still amazed at how big of an asshole Marc Ross is  
Diver_Down : 2/14/2020 5:13 pm : link
In comment 14811437 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14811324 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


In comment 14811287 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


This is a guy what helped destroy this franchise the day he arrived. The Giants were among the league's worst drafting teams with him as the head of college scouting.

After he was fired he had the audacity to go on TV and criticize the lack of talent on the team taking absolutely no responsibility for the state of the franchise. This just shows his complete lack of awareness and credibility.

It's no surprise that he hasn't gotten another job in the NFL.



Comparing Marc and Jerry is like which stain in the toilet is worse. As terrible as Marc was, he has at least crawled out of the hole he has been hiding in and has even interview for GM positions. Jerry on the other hand isn't even black enough to get a sham Rooney Rule interview. Neither will ever work in the league again.



Didn't Reese turn down an interview request with the Raiders?

I guess maybe better he stays away than what Coughlin did to Jacksonville in his second time around. They couldn't fire him (and only him) fast enough.


To be fair, I had to google the Raiders declined interview. He was fired in Dec 2017 and declined the interview with the Raiders in Dec 2018.
I knew  
Manning10 : 2/14/2020 5:44 pm : link
There was something I liked about that guy. Atta Boy Dave!
Tollefson was the kind of player that should  
LBH15 : 2/14/2020 5:52 pm : link
have gotten 5 straight 1-year deals as I recall.

At least Reese got that correct.

RE: RE: RE: After Reese let him go  
FStubbs : 2/14/2020 6:06 pm : link
In comment 14811440 Mark C said:
Quote:
In comment 14811284 LauderdaleMatty said:


Quote:


In comment 14811225 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


Dave played one season as a backup for Oakland at age 30 and never played another game

So I would say Reese made the right call. Linval was his big mistake

He also lost Steve Smith, Cruz Nicks and Wilson to career injuries. Ditto for Snee and Baas

That had a lot more to do with it than not resigning Jacobs, Tuck, Tolly etc

But the real mistake wasFlowers. Jerry might still be here if he had not stubbornly kept flowers at LT




Posted this numerous times.

Wilson over Corey Glenn or Bobby Wagner. Sintim over Max Unger. The lost is a hell of a lot longer than people realize. Reese sealed his
Fate keeping hiring then keeping Ross.

And just as bad was OBJ over Donald or Martin. He loved playmakers at the risk of all else. His early success and being willing to let the Mara’s meddle constantly didn’t help.

Joseph walking cost them even more than many realize. Had to over pay Snacks and then drafted that stuff from Cuse. The fact that morons here still want to give him so much credit for the early years as a GM amazes
Me. He was a great scout. He was handed the team and destroyed it from within. So yeah. Thanks for your earlier work but if he gets hired again that team deserves to suck for as long as Cleveland



The OBJ pick was not a mistake. If we’d passed on him he would’ve gone to Dallas, and with the roster they’ve had since then, the Cowboys would’ve won a super bowl with OBJ. And even if not, the idea of that much talent and that much asshole playing for that team would’ve been too much to bear..


Beckham in Dallas wouldn't have won them the big game, because they wouldn't have had Martin to solidify their offensive line.
Jerry Reese is  
VanillaVick : 2/14/2020 6:20 pm : link
A cowboys fan
You can’t blame anyone for Wilson. He fumbled early but learned.  
Ivan15 : 2/14/2020 7:08 pm : link
The guy was explosive every time he touched the ball. You don’t find that anywhere.

Who could predict spinal stenosis for a 20-year old?
RE: You can’t blame anyone for Wilson. He fumbled early but learned.  
EricJ : 2/14/2020 7:18 pm : link
In comment 14811498 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
The guy was explosive every time he touched the ball. You don’t find that anywhere.

Who could predict spinal stenosis for a 20-year old?


We didn't need Wilson at that time...
Linval Joseph  
SirLoinOfBeef : 2/14/2020 7:26 pm : link
was a fine DT. Even when he was with the Giants. We spent two second round draft picks on his replacement with Hanjkins and Tomlinson. Neither have/had the production of Joseph.

Anyone can argue those picks would have been better spent elsewhere than DT if Joseph was re-signed.
...  
christian : 2/14/2020 8:15 pm : link
And after all the gnashing of teeth, pants wetting, and shingles sprung, Jerry Reese delivered two Super Bowl rings as the GM.
RE: ...  
Diver_Down : 2/14/2020 8:25 pm : link
In comment 14811517 christian said:
Quote:
And after all the gnashing of teeth, pants wetting, and shingles sprung, Jerry Reese Ernie Accorsi delivered two Super Bowl rings as the GM.


Fixed.
I think the 'In Reese We Trust' saying died  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 2/14/2020 8:31 pm : link
Midway through the 2013 season when we started 0-6.

He should never have lasted as long as he did.
RE: RE: You can’t blame anyone for Wilson. He fumbled early but learned.  
Bill L : 2/14/2020 8:45 pm : link
In comment 14811500 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 14811498 Ivan15 said:


Quote:


The guy was explosive every time he touched the ball. You don’t find that anywhere.

Who could predict spinal stenosis for a 20-year old?



We didn't need Wilson at that time...

Is that true? I thought everyone had us taking and needing a RB in that draft. Although I think they wanted us to pick up Martin.
RE: I think the 'In Reese We Trust' saying died  
jcn56 : 2/14/2020 9:14 pm : link
In comment 14811527 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Midway through the 2013 season when we started 0-6.

He should never have lasted as long as he did.


He and Coughlin should have expired at the same time. And while both of them had their warts, they both contributed heavily to two championships.

It's funny to see some people try to play it off like one of them didn't matter, as if Accorsi had a draft record worth half a shit before Reese was promoted under him, or Coughlin was some unstoppable force in Jacksonville before he came to NY (or after, for that matter).
Reese had a lot of missteps after 2011.  
j_rud : 2/14/2020 9:33 pm : link
But he handled Tollefson the exact way he shouldve: he paid a known commodity just enough to keep around but not so much that it would be prohibitive to part ways if someone else emerged.

Not to be a dick, but no one made Tollefson sign 5 one year deals. Im sure if there were better offers he'd have taken them. Tollefson was a really good 4th DE. Good depth on a great line. But that was it.

I do share his dislike of Marc Ross though. He comes across like a prick in damn near every article his name comes up. And his appearances on NFLN dont really help.
RE: RE: ...  
Greg from LI : 2/14/2020 9:54 pm : link
In comment 14811523 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 14811517 christian said:


Quote:


And after all the gnashing of teeth, pants wetting, and shingles sprung, Jerry Reese Ernie Accorsi delivered two Super Bowl rings as the GM.



Fixed.


Horseshit
RE: ...  
j_rud : 2/14/2020 9:58 pm : link
In comment 14811517 christian said:
Quote:
And after all the gnashing of teeth, pants wetting, and shingles sprung, Jerry Reese delivered two Super Bowl rings as the GM.


True.

Also true: after the second he promptly drove the franchise into the ground to such an extent that it makes the Hindenburg look like a fender bender.
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 2/14/2020 9:58 pm : link
In comment 14811523 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 14811517 christian said:


Quote:


And after all the gnashing of teeth, pants wetting, and shingles sprung, Jerry Reese Ernie Accorsi delivered two Super Bowl rings as the GM.



Fixed.


Lol, soon those foggy memories will just be Eli Manning throwing to himself and the rug sitting next to Jim Burt in the stands.
Reese wont sniff  
MookGiants : 2/14/2020 10:13 pm : link
another GM job and Gettleman wouldnt have either if the Giants didnt hire him.
And as bad as Reese was at the end  
MookGiants : 2/14/2020 10:16 pm : link
Gettleman has had two years of top picks and the only two position groups that are in better shape for the future than when Reese was here are QB and RB. DT maybe.

The arrow is not pointing up with this franchise with the front office in place
Joseph was a questionable decision  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 2/15/2020 10:41 am : link
Even at the time, figured Reese thought he had to save money all that monet for the up and coming studs. Oi vay.

And letting Black Unicorn go for pretty cheap,probably similar reasoning.

The good with the bad is he didn't latch onto old players like Rolle and Tuck.

And Beason wtf?!?
Mara  
Bavaro_the_Mafioso : 2/15/2020 10:57 am : link
Let's also not forget that Mara retained Reese and let TC walk. Sure, the time had come for TC's departure, but he took the lone hit while Reese was more culpable.

Mara was firmly still a believer in his GM after years of terrible decisions and a depleted roster.

Mara  
greek13 : 2/15/2020 12:06 pm : link
Is the boss. He let an absolutely horrible GM ruin the team. The stats,
Listed here many times, prove he (JR)is one of the lowest scoring draft gms In the history of the modern nfl. I believe he was heavily involved in the TC Mess and in creating a culture of arrogance and failure. Mara let it happen. If Mara had a boss, a board of directors - he’d be long gone ,too! It is a very very dark 7 years of NYG history.
RE: Mara  
jcn56 : 2/15/2020 12:15 pm : link
In comment 14811728 greek13 said:
Quote:
Is the boss. He let an absolutely horrible GM ruin the team. The stats,
Listed here many times, prove he (JR)is one of the lowest scoring draft gms In the history of the modern nfl. I believe he was heavily involved in the TC Mess and in creating a culture of arrogance and failure. Mara let it happen. If Mara had a boss, a board of directors - he’d be long gone ,too! It is a very very dark 7 years of NYG history.


You missed the two championships during his tenure I'm guessing?
Reese was terrible  
WillVAB : 2/15/2020 12:53 pm : link
He inherited the core of both of those championship teams and failed miserably when tasked with rebuilding that core.
RE: Reese was terrible  
jcn56 : 2/15/2020 12:57 pm : link
In comment 14811747 WillVAB said:
Quote:
He inherited the core of both of those championship teams and failed miserably when tasked with rebuilding that core.


You must be about 19 years old - which would explain how you could possibly think that Accorsi built those two teams.

Otherwise, John Markham says hello.
Giving him credit  
greek13 : 2/15/2020 2:04 pm : link
For two championships is silly - but ....
RE: RE: RE: ...  
Diver_Down : 2/15/2020 2:28 pm : link
In comment 14811569 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14811523 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


In comment 14811517 christian said:


Quote:


And after all the gnashing of teeth, pants wetting, and shingles sprung, Jerry Reese Ernie Accorsi delivered two Super Bowl rings as the GM.



Fixed.



Lol, soon those foggy memories will just be Eli Manning throwing to himself and the rug sitting next to Jim Burt in the stands.


Foggy memories? Certainly you or any other BBI'er can remember back a month ago when Mara put the debate to rest by giving credit for the 2 SBs to Ernie. He made the declaration in his opening remarks at Eli Manning's retirement ceremony.
What about Tom Coughlin?  
Milton : 2/15/2020 2:43 pm : link
He played a huge role in both free agency and the draft. And he put together the coaching staff, which was often part of the problem, not part of the solution.
RE: RE: Reese was terrible  
WillVAB : 2/15/2020 3:13 pm : link
In comment 14811748 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14811747 WillVAB said:


Quote:


He inherited the core of both of those championship teams and failed miserably when tasked with rebuilding that core.



You must be about 19 years old - which would explain how you could possibly think that Accorsi built those two teams.

Otherwise, John Markham says hello.


You must be his wife if you think Reese built those teams.
RE: RE: RE: RE: ...  
christian : 2/15/2020 4:04 pm : link
In comment 14811789 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
Foggy memories? Certainly you or any other BBI'er can remember back a month ago when Mara put the debate to rest by giving credit for the 2 SBs to Ernie. He made the declaration in his opening remarks at Eli Manning's retirement ceremony.


Lolol. A John Mara declaration? Nothing, and I mean n.o.t.h.i.ng. is more of an authority on assessing and building a modern winner than a John Mara declaration. Almost got me there.
RE: RE: RE: RE: ...  
jcn56 : 2/15/2020 4:10 pm : link
In comment 14811789 Diver_Down said:
Quote:

Foggy memories? Certainly you or any other BBI'er can remember back a month ago when Mara put the debate to rest by giving credit for the 2 SBs to Ernie. He made the declaration in his opening remarks at Eli Manning's retirement ceremony.


So if we're using Mara as an indicator - what do you make of the fact that he fired Coughlin before Reese?

As for WillVAB, I'm pretty sure that even Reese's wife knows more about football and the Giants than he does. Accorsi's drafts were miserable before he promoted Reese. I'm sure the venerable Derek Brown would agree.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: ...  
WillVAB : 2/15/2020 5:08 pm : link
In comment 14811834 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14811789 Diver_Down said:


Quote:



Foggy memories? Certainly you or any other BBI'er can remember back a month ago when Mara put the debate to rest by giving credit for the 2 SBs to Ernie. He made the declaration in his opening remarks at Eli Manning's retirement ceremony.



So if we're using Mara as an indicator - what do you make of the fact that he fired Coughlin before Reese?

As for WillVAB, I'm pretty sure that even Reese's wife knows more about football and the Giants than he does. Accorsi's drafts were miserable before he promoted Reese. I'm sure the venerable Derek Brown would agree.


And Reese’s drafts were miserable when he was GM.

When Reese took over the entire OL, DL, and QB were already set. Reese added some nice ancillary pieces early on. When the core he inherited got old he was completely lost on how to rebuild it.

Reese had 1 decent draft in 10 years. It’s comical anyone would defend him at this point.
RE: RE: RE: RE: ...  
Diver_Down : 2/15/2020 5:14 pm : link
In comment 14811789 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 14811569 christian said:


Quote:


In comment 14811523 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


In comment 14811517 christian said:


Quote:


And after all the gnashing of teeth, pants wetting, and shingles sprung, Jerry Reese Ernie Accorsi delivered two Super Bowl rings as the GM.



Fixed.



Lol, soon those foggy memories will just be Eli Manning throwing to himself and the rug sitting next to Jim Burt in the stands.



Foggy memories? Certainly you or any other BBI'er can remember back a month ago when Mara put the debate to rest by giving credit for the 2 SBs to Ernie. He made the declaration in his opening remarks at Eli Manning's retirement ceremony.


What about Jerry?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: ...  
jcn56 : 2/15/2020 5:21 pm : link
In comment 14811868 Diver_Down said:
Quote:

What about Jerry?


What about him? He wasn't the guy who made the trade to acquire Eli, so you were expecting him to be mentioned?

Let alone that he probably wasn't too welcome at Eli's farewell tour, being the only one in the organization with the stones to admit that Eli had lost it several years earlier.

Uncle Dave went in blindly assuming Reese was wrong and set the whole effort back even further.
RE: RE: After Reese let him go  
sb from NYT Forum : 2/18/2020 11:29 am : link
In comment 14811284 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
Wilson over Corey Glenn or Bobby Wagner. Sintim over Max Unger. The lost is a hell of a lot longer than people realize. Reese sealed his
Fate keeping hiring then keeping Ross.

And just as bad was OBJ over Donald or Martin. He loved playmakers at the risk of all else. His early success and being willing to let the Mara�s meddle constantly didn�t help.

Joseph walking cost them even more than many realize. Had to over pay Snacks and then drafted that stuff from Cuse. The fact that morons here still want to give him so much credit for the early years as a GM amazes
Me. He was a great scout. He was handed the team and destroyed it from within. So yeah. Thanks for your earlier work but if he gets hired again that team deserves to suck for as long as Cleveland


This post is so 100% dead-on that it should be permanently stickied.
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