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Has the new DC announced if we are going to stay base 3-4?

superspynyg : 2/17/2020 8:54 am
Or change to a base 4-3? I know he runs a lot of mixed and hybrid packages but they start with one of these.

When asked 3-4 or 4-3  
fireitup77 : 2/17/2020 8:57 am : link
He responded yes.
For the love of god  
djstat : 2/17/2020 8:57 am : link
Most teams do not announce this. Judge stated they would be running a defense with multiple fronts. Like every defense in the NFL no one runs a true 3-4 or 4-3. Most teams are in base defense for less then 6% of all snaps.

A good coach can tweak his scheme to accommodate his personnel.

SO no he has not said 3-4 or 4-3 and won't.

This front issue gets asked about all the time especially around draft time and too many of you are stuck in the past.
i think they have been pretty clear  
blueblood : 2/17/2020 9:02 am : link
they intend to be multiple, depending who they are playing from week to week..

Its been know for them to switch from a 3-4 to a 4-3 within the same game.. and with so many teams playing 11 personnel teams are in nickel 50% of the times anyway..

The whole 3-4, 4-3 thing to me is overblown anyway..
RE: For the love of god  
Mdgiantsfan : 2/17/2020 9:05 am : link
In comment 14812374 djstat said:
Quote:
Most teams do not announce this. Judge stated they would be running a defense with multiple fronts. Like every defense in the NFL no one runs a true 3-4 or 4-3. Most teams are in base defense for less then 6% of all snaps.

A good coach can tweak his scheme to accommodate his personnel.

SO no he has not said 3-4 or 4-3 and won't.

This front issue gets asked about all the time especially around draft time and too many of you are stuck in the past.


But it is not an unfair question. Most teams have a base system that is not some classified info that tilts the competitive edge of the team making it known. As much as people want to tout how everyone runs multiple fronts, you need to have the personnel to do so. Just like spending a high pick on Clint Sintim was a waste given that the Giants were a 4-3 front, you have to ensure the player fits the system.
This might help  
blueblood : 2/17/2020 9:08 am : link
take a look
Graham Defensive Philosophy - ( New Window )
I don't..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/17/2020 9:19 am : link
know if it is an unfair question or not, but what does the information matter to you?

If a team is running multiple looks and not a true base D, then exactly what are you going to do with an answer??

Even if a guy runs a 4-3 the majority of the time, but utilizes a 3-4 or a hybrid look 35% or higher, unless you know what the utilization is and what looks are planned, the information is meaningless. It's there to tie a nice bow on a descriptor for the defense.
RE: RE: For the love of god  
Mike in NY : 2/17/2020 9:20 am : link
In comment 14812382 Mdgiantsfan said:
Quote:
In comment 14812374 djstat said:


Quote:


Most teams do not announce this. Judge stated they would be running a defense with multiple fronts. Like every defense in the NFL no one runs a true 3-4 or 4-3. Most teams are in base defense for less then 6% of all snaps.

A good coach can tweak his scheme to accommodate his personnel.

SO no he has not said 3-4 or 4-3 and won't.

This front issue gets asked about all the time especially around draft time and too many of you are stuck in the past.



But it is not an unfair question. Most teams have a base system that is not some classified info that tilts the competitive edge of the team making it known. As much as people want to tout how everyone runs multiple fronts, you need to have the personnel to do so. Just like spending a high pick on Clint Sintim was a waste given that the Giants were a 4-3 front, you have to ensure the player fits the system.


The league has changed since the Giants drafted Clint Sintim. With NFL outlawing pass defense, teams are using more sets with 3 or more WR's and using TE's more in the passing game. This has resulted in more Nickle/Dime/Big Nickle sets versus traditional 3-4/4-3 schemes. The ability for a DE to drop into coverage or a SS to play FS as well as LB in different looks takes on added importance. That is why someone like Simmons is awfully tempting, especially if the top 3 goes Burrow-Young-Okudah or Burrow-Young-2nd QB. When he is on the field he could be playing any number of roles. I also think that is why the Giants were willing to let Landon Collins go as a UFA and gamble on getting a compensatory pick back. His liabilites in pass coverage really limited the number of looks you could do for him especially considering the contract.
This is amazing.  
robbieballs2003 : 2/17/2020 9:35 am : link
Both Graham and Nudge answered this "multiple" times but apparently the answer hasn't sunk in with people yet.
Nudge?  
Klaatu : 2/17/2020 9:40 am : link
Best  
PaulN : 2/17/2020 9:46 am : link
The Giants announce this to the fans so they can set up thier draft predictions. That is what is important.
RE: Best  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/17/2020 10:38 am : link
In comment 14812414 PaulN said:
Quote:
The Giants announce this to the fans so they can set up thier draft predictions. That is what is important.


Drop the mic,Paul.
It's not like it doesn't matter  
Milton : 2/17/2020 10:51 am : link
It's why Betcher sat down with Gettleman and the scouting staff two years ago and gave them a lengthy description of the time of talent he wanted to run his defense. It will play a role in who the Giants prefer in free agency and the draft (probably why Praham and Nudge are being coy about it).
Simmons would seem like the  
Simms11 : 2/17/2020 11:26 am : link
perfect fit in this multiple look D.
Nonetheless, both Judge and Graham said theyll be multiple  
yatqb : 2/17/2020 12:04 pm : link
time and again. Thus, the answer to the OPs question is No they didnt specify a base defense.
I like  
Glover : 2/17/2020 12:21 pm : link
the footage from when the Dolphins played the Giants, they had one DT line up with his hand on the ground and everyone else muddling around before the snap. It looked like there was 3 or 4, or 5 linebackers moving around before the snap. I don't mind this at all, especially on passing downs, which is just about every down. I could see Simmons as a great fit for this style of defense, move in, engage the lineman, then break off laterally around another defender and blocker and make the sack. Don't think they would use this if the Giants played Tennessee, but it will work well, I think, against most NFL teams.
RE: Nonetheless, both Judge and Graham said they�ll be �multiple�  
Milton : 2/17/2020 12:23 pm : link
In comment 14812518 yatqb said:
Quote:
time and again. Thus, the answer to the OP�s question is �No� they didn�t specify a base defense.
But there will be a base defense, they just haven't revealed it.
Wow, lots of question marks, huh?  
yatqb : 2/17/2020 12:26 pm : link
No idea how that happened. But there are likely multiple reasons.
RE: It's not like it doesn't matter  
superspynyg : 2/17/2020 12:50 pm : link
In comment 14812464 Milton said:
Quote:
It's why Betcher sat down with Gettleman and the scouting staff two years ago and gave them a lengthy description of the time of talent he wanted to run his defense. It will play a role in who the Giants prefer in free agency and the draft (probably why Praham and Nudge are being coy about it).


THANK YOU MILTON!

It still matters  
Joey in VA : 2/17/2020 12:55 pm : link
I don't care what anyone's opinion is on this, it has an impact most notably on the DL and at LB. An ILB in a 4-3 is afforded more protection, so you can get away with smaller quicker guys at LB and still stop the run effectively. OLBs in a 4-3, same thing, even the SAM, you can get away with smaller guys but in the 3-4 sets you need edge setting OLBs, period. It's a different type of player at OLB, ILB, DE. Yes you can be multiple yes you can trot out numerous looks, but the base absolutely matters when it comes to talent acquisition. So, Graham learned in a 3-4 base in NE, played it in MIA and Judge coached under Saban, a 3-4 base guy and Belichick, a 3-4 base guy. So on the depth charts you'll see a 3-4 base and in the game you'll see all manner of alignments.
RE: It's not like it doesn't matter  
RobCarpenter : 2/17/2020 12:56 pm : link
In comment 14812464 Milton said:
Quote:
It's why Betcher sat down with Gettleman and the scouting staff two years ago and gave them a lengthy description of the time of talent he wanted to run his defense. It will play a role in who the Giants prefer in free agency and the draft (probably why Praham and Nudge are being coy about it).


So basically the opposite of fit scheme to players. Betcher was a massive failure.
RE: RE: It's not like it doesn't matter  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/17/2020 1:01 pm : link
In comment 14812587 superspynyg said:
Quote:
In comment 14812464 Milton said:


Quote:


It's why Betcher sat down with Gettleman and the scouting staff two years ago and gave them a lengthy description of the time of talent he wanted to run his defense. It will play a role in who the Giants prefer in free agency and the draft (probably why Praham and Nudge are being coy about it).



THANK YOU MILTON!


It doesn't matter to FANS!!

Of course it matters to the team, but why the fuck do you have to know? What are you going to do with that information? If you usually sound like a moron on football topics, getting partial information on what scheme is going to be run is still going to turn out badly, I'm guessing.

Ah who the fuck am I kidding. I'm not really guessing there....
Fans need to know...  
Brown_Hornet : 2/17/2020 1:36 pm : link
...so that they can criticize the org., utilizing personnel needs and their complete lack of knowledge regarding said personnel.
Some fans need to understand how this team intends to operate  
UberAlias : 2/17/2020 1:47 pm : link
Philosophically.

A far better question would be, how do you go about building a defense capable of performing effectively under multiple fronts?
RE: For the love of god  
LauderdaleMatty : 2/17/2020 3:15 pm : link
In comment 14812374 djstat said:
Quote:
Most teams do not announce this. Judge stated they would be running a defense with multiple fronts. Like every defense in the NFL no one runs a true 3-4 or 4-3. Most teams are in base defense for less then 6% of all snaps.

A good coach can tweak his scheme to accommodate his personnel.

SO no he has not said 3-4 or 4-3 and won't.

This front issue gets asked about all the time especially around draft time and too many of you are stuck in the past.


Except Betcher ran a 3 man front almost all the time. What you are suggesting happens now as you say. But you can still be in a 3 man front and constantly shuffle your back 7 and not be in your base but still have 3 DLs. Some guys are scheme first. I pray your correct and We are less scheme reliant. We seemed to be w the last two staffs.
RE: RE: Nonetheless, both Judge and Graham said they�ll be �multiple�  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/17/2020 3:17 pm : link
In comment 14812542 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 14812518 yatqb said:


Quote:


time and again. Thus, the answer to the OP�s question is �No� they didn�t specify a base defense.

But there will be a base defense, they just haven't revealed it.

No, there won't. Some weeks they'll be in an even front as their base, others, they'll be in an odd front. Sometimes, they'll use an under alignment, sometimes an over alignment. Most games they'll use all of the above plus specialty packages. It may depend on the opponent, or the health of the roster, or the way certain players emerge over the course of the season.

This isn't as complicated as many fans think - you don't need to have a "base defense." And if they do what they've promised, you won't be able to tell what it is even if they do.
RE: It still matters  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/17/2020 3:31 pm : link
In comment 14812595 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
I don't care what anyone's opinion is on this, it has an impact most notably on the DL and at LB. An ILB in a 4-3 is afforded more protection, so you can get away with smaller quicker guys at LB and still stop the run effectively. OLBs in a 4-3, same thing, even the SAM, you can get away with smaller guys but in the 3-4 sets you need edge setting OLBs, period. It's a different type of player at OLB, ILB, DE. Yes you can be multiple yes you can trot out numerous looks, but the base absolutely matters when it comes to talent acquisition. So, Graham learned in a 3-4 base in NE, played it in MIA and Judge coached under Saban, a 3-4 base guy and Belichick, a 3-4 base guy. So on the depth charts you'll see a 3-4 base and in the game you'll see all manner of alignments.

Where you appear to be missing the concept is that you're thinking that a player needs to be the same position regardless of scheme.

Rid yourself of that constraint and the concept gets much easier: OLBs in your 30 front become DEs in your 40 front. Your 5T DE can either stay there as a run-stopping edge DE or slide inside to play 3T. Your smallish ILB in the 3-4 can play WLB in the 4-3, or even your big safety in a nickel or dime alignment, if you have a player like Simmons.

You need players who are scheme-diverse and a willingness throughout the organization to stretch the archetype for each type of player. This tends to provide two distinct advantages: your team is less predictable from week to week, and your scouting operation can eliminate fewer players from consideration strictly on the basis of outdated H/W/S numbers so they can identify actual talent beyond the limitations of a single scheme.

Besides that, the idea that Saban and/or Belichick are each still a "3-4 base guy" is no longer accurate. I thought that was common knowledge. I guess not.
RE: RE: It still matters  
Brown_Hornet : 2/17/2020 3:43 pm : link
In comment 14812711 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14812595 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


I don't care what anyone's opinion is on this, it has an impact most notably on the DL and at LB. An ILB in a 4-3 is afforded more protection, so you can get away with smaller quicker guys at LB and still stop the run effectively. OLBs in a 4-3, same thing, even the SAM, you can get away with smaller guys but in the 3-4 sets you need edge setting OLBs, period. It's a different type of player at OLB, ILB, DE. Yes you can be multiple yes you can trot out numerous looks, but the base absolutely matters when it comes to talent acquisition. So, Graham learned in a 3-4 base in NE, played it in MIA and Judge coached under Saban, a 3-4 base guy and Belichick, a 3-4 base guy. So on the depth charts you'll see a 3-4 base and in the game you'll see all manner of alignments.


Where you appear to be missing the concept is that you're thinking that a player needs to be the same position regardless of scheme.

Rid yourself of that constraint and the concept gets much easier: OLBs in your 30 front become DEs in your 40 front. Your 5T DE can either stay there as a run-stopping edge DE or slide inside to play 3T. Your smallish ILB in the 3-4 can play WLB in the 4-3, or even your big safety in a nickel or dime alignment, if you have a player like Simmons.

You need players who are scheme-diverse and a willingness throughout the organization to stretch the archetype for each type of player. This tends to provide two distinct advantages: your team is less predictable from week to week, and your scouting operation can eliminate fewer players from consideration strictly on the basis of outdated H/W/S numbers so they can identify actual talent beyond the limitations of a single scheme.

Besides that, the idea that Saban and/or Belichick are each still a "3-4 base guy" is no longer accurate. I thought that was common knowledge. I guess not.
+1
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