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NFT: BBI Health/Fitness Gurus - need advice re: workout plan

OnTap : 2/17/2020 9:19 am
Hey guys and gals.

I'm in my mid-40s, in reasonably good shape. I'm not looking to lose weight. In fact I'm happy where my weight is, but I would like to put on a little more muscle as I do look a little lean. I eat as well as I can because some of my numbers I'm trying to hold in check or improve (cholesterol, sugar, etc) so I'm cautious as to how much and what I eat. The only supplements I take are whey protein and a multivitamin and they seem to work fine for me so not looking for additional supplements.

I've been doing a good lifting program 2-3 days per week when I can, and doing intervals on the treadmill 1-2 x week (can't really do more than that due to work).

My issue is that I've been getting shoulder issues/back issues so I don't think I can continue to do the regimen I'm currently on lifting wise (5 reps for things like Deadlifts/Front Squats/Bench Press, Shoulder Press, etc.) A lot of the exercises in this particular program seem to be aggravating my shoulder.

I've scoured the web, (mens health, athlean-x, t-nation, etc) and there is too much info on the web re: bro splits, and workouts for guys over 40; it is a bit overwhelming. Do this not that. Do that not this.

I'd like to find a program, full body preferably, that I can do realistically 2-3 times per week and outlines the sets/reps that are appropriate. I've worked with trainers in the past but they've come up with workouts on the fly, which I can't do. I tend to prefer written programs with progressions and evolutions in terms of exercises and sets/reps. Anyone have any suggestions? Anyone do something similar to what I'mlooking for? Is it still possible to build a better physique after 45?

Thanks in advance guys.
Your regimen sounds good honestly  
aGiantGuy : 2/17/2020 9:31 am : link
I dont think your workout is the problem, you might have to take 5-7
Mins to incorporate rotator cuff exercises and shoulder mobility work before you start your lifting.
maybe bump up reps  
DC Gmen Fan : 2/17/2020 9:41 am : link
to 8-12 range for less stress on joints/tendons but same volume?
I also have some shoulder issues  
Eman11 : 2/17/2020 10:08 am : link
So I've discussed with my orthopedist what would allow me to still workout and not do more damage. His advice was to drop shoulder presses altogether as they're one of the most common cause of injury to shoulders. He has me doing dumbbell or cable raises instead and I haven't had any problems since.

Another thing I did was eliminate flat bench presses in favor of incline and that helped as well but honestly can still feel some strain when doing them, though not nearly as much as a flat bench press.

As a result I've made weighted dips my main chest exercise and as long as I'm smart, and use proper form I don't feel any strain on my shoulders at all. They've been the perfect chest exercise for me and I've found myself doing less and less incline presses. When I do, it's mostly light weight/high rep and more for muscle endurance than anything else. The weighted dips really do help to shape and add some mass to the pecs so I'm content with how that's working.

The main thing for me is staying fit, and not feeling any pain or doing any damage and since I switched it up like I have it's been smooth sailing.

Good luck, and keep at it.q
I agree that it sounds like rotator cuff issues  
JonnyR : 2/17/2020 10:17 am : link
Very common. Search for "impinged rotator cuff" online and see if those symptoms sound like what you have. If so, find a treatment online and work it every couple of nights at home. Be diligent and your problems may subside in a couple of months. I'm 54 and it took me about 6 months to rehab mine last year. Stick with it!
Currently treating a shoulder impingement  
trueblueinpw : 2/17/2020 10:28 am : link
PT told me to stop lifting until the shoulder resolves. That was about 4 ago and while I dont have any more pain in the shoulder I havent really been lifting much either. When I do I stay very light on the free weights and focus on reps and keeping my heart rate up. Try to stay away from the cortisone shot if you see a doctor. It helps, of course, but PT is the long term answer.

After 40 its a fine line between taking it easy and pushing through aches and pains that are just gonna be a part of being older. One thing I swear by is yoga and stretching. If youre not doing a bit of yoga and stretching every day you should start there.
So I'm over 50  
Johnny5 : 2/17/2020 10:35 am : link
And I still lift religiously. Sounds like your structure is pretty good. I would suggest focus on warmups and deloads, and some periodization. I've found that's what has helped me the most. My bench is as good as it's ever been, and I still squat and DL quite a bit of weight. I have HAVE to warmup for a good 10 minute so I'm starting to sweat, I am doing shoulder and hip rolls, and a good 5 minutes of stretching before I lift. Then I ramp on the warmups for the heavy lifts (especially squat and bench).

Obviously I can't recover the way I used to, but I seem to manage to keep my heavy lifts (and joint pains) this way pretty effectively. I will typically focus on an upper/lower split, but I also do push/pull. I change my routine every 4-6 weeks and my last week is a deload where I go no more than 60% of my 1RM on lifts for that whole week. My splits are generally M/W/F (and sometimes Saturday added based on how I feel). I do Cardio on my off days. Cardio I will do intervals of higher intensity but not to the level of HIIT (Because it effects my recovery).

I like muscular size and strength so I will lift very heavy low rep still, but I spread it out across multiple workouts by playing with % of 1 Rep Max and rep counts. So one week I'll do Upper Monday and Friday and Lower Wednesday, I will reverse that the next week so every other week I'm hitting upper or lower 2x per week. I alternate Up to 90% of 1 RM for 2-3 reps for a heavy day, and then the next workout I'm at 75% for 8-10 reps.

For bench press and squat I also focus on pause reps more often than faster more explosive reps, unless I am trying to hit a new 1RM. I also only do 2 exercises typically per body part.




I'm 33 and I have chronic neck/shoulder/back pain to the point  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/17/2020 11:35 am : link
where I generally take kratom 4 times a day and spend 30 minutes 30 minutes to an hour warming up depending on push/pull or legs for a 45 minute lift.

One thing I can not recommend enough is drop the intervals and do Bikram hot yoga, or a similary structured hot yoga. Some of the other ones are too free flowing and will just keep reinforcing poor movement patterns. My pain is mostly myofascial pain syndrome these days but I did slip a disk in my lower back from deadlifting and it's pretty much completely healed at this point.

Diet is extremely important as well, I recently just added bread back into the mix for my empty carbs and had to take it out as my inflammation skyrocketed and going back to rice and pasta.

Similarly to you I only lift 2 times a week, 1 Sprint day, and hopefully.two yoga days a week but generally only 1.
Lifting is generally reverse pyramid with 2 working sets of 3 exercises for push/pull and 2 exercises for legs all compound movements TO TRUE FAILURE on the working sets. Now I know a lot of people struggle with this but with a low volume program it's essential. This program is money and I can show you pics to prove it. Johnny knows what he's talking about but I'd be weary about asking for advice
on an internet football message board where you have no idea what they look like or how strong they are etc/etc.
Note of caution  
JB_in_DC : 2/17/2020 11:55 am : link
The shoulder joint is incredibly complex and doctors and PTs will often inaccurately prescribe treatments for it.
Full disclaimer so we have established that relying on internet commenters without seeing your shoulder, obviously is even more flawed.

That said: I had shoulder pain from lifting a few years back and was put on a rotator cuff program by a PT, and never really felt like it was getting to the heart of the issue.

What ended up working best for me: 1) incorporating more, and better pulling exercises. I superset every bench set with band pull-aparts. I started doing a lot more pull-ups - with each rep starting from a complete dead-hang. I think the pull-ups helped me more than anything - in terms of shoulder stability. 2) Narrowed my bench width grip a bit.
I saw the Doc last week  
OnTap : 2/17/2020 12:18 pm : link
rotator cuff is ok. He thinks overuse injury from overhead work. I had been doing tons of pull-ups which he said can wreck shoulders.

As for deadlifts/squats I moved to the trap bar and have had no pain since. Front squats and barbell rear lunges round out my legs. It's just the shoulders now I need to be wary of.
Will be 56 in April. Been lifting since around 13  
Payasdaddy : 2/17/2020 12:23 pm : link
Starting with my sand filled weights in my garage in late 70s
Last few yrs muscle mass is definitely decreasing some and mid section starting to get that middle age look. Waist is probably 36 when should be 34
511 210 in morning
As far as shoulder, last yr it started what I thought was impinging . Benching or dumbells Really made me feel it
While traveling pulled my luggage from overhead and by the time I got home shoulder was on fire 🔥. Could lie down for weeks, had to take codeine to sleep upright on chair for 2-3 weeks. Worried I tore rotator or labrum. Or both
Went to surge one. Could move shoulder with him. Diagnosis. Full rotator tear. Took MRI to confirm
Guess what. He was wrong. Had everything else going on in shoulder, slip tear of labrum, cysts, fraying of biceps tending from shoulder. Basically most things that a 55 yr old would have after 40;yrs of lifting and playing football in some form until early 40s
Rested it a few weeks, was worried about how out of shape I would get. Quiet honestly, best thing I have done. Aches and pains subsided all over.
Shoulders feels good right now, when it twinges I back off a day or two and keep weights manageable. Try to lift more controlled too


RE: I saw the Doc last week  
JB_in_DC : 2/17/2020 12:25 pm : link
In comment 14812533 OnTap said:
Quote:
rotator cuff is ok. He thinks overuse injury from overhead work. I had been doing tons of pull-ups which he said can wreck shoulders.

As for deadlifts/squats I moved to the trap bar and have had no pain since. Front squats and barbell rear lunges round out my legs. It's just the shoulders now I need to be wary of.


Have you tried 5/3/1 before? Emphasis on slow progression, and very flexible program with lots of different templates put out - including 2 days/wk. The 4 main lifts for you could be: Incline Bench, Close Grip Bench, Trap Bar DL, Front Squat. Fit those into 2 or 3 days/wk and throw in a couple accessories per day.
The reality as we age is our tendons ligaments  
LauderdaleMatty : 2/17/2020 3:10 pm : link
And Even cartilage isn’t the same. Wear and tear is wear and tear.

If it’s been mentioned sorry but I’d suggest try body weight stuff. Pull ups push ups and dips. Even body weight squats. If you are in Your 40s and not having any issues you are lying and not I. Your 40s. Lol.

I do much less weights wise and added Jiu Jitsu at 42. I’m 53 now. Find something you like. Work of course makes it hard but ditch the treadmill. If you are running on it you are t doing your back any favors.

Lastly yoga is great. I saw it mentions. For mobility and even mind health. It is utterly useless if you want t to add some lean muscle mass. Don’t let anyone tell you it helps build muscles. Resistance training does shire it’s great to strengthen your core but lie anything else it’s what it is. And time is time. Good luck
RE: RE: I saw the Doc last week  
Johnny5 : 2/17/2020 6:33 pm : link
In comment 14812547 JB_in_DC said:
Quote:
In comment 14812533 OnTap said:


Quote:


rotator cuff is ok. He thinks overuse injury from overhead work. I had been doing tons of pull-ups which he said can wreck shoulders.

As for deadlifts/squats I moved to the trap bar and have had no pain since. Front squats and barbell rear lunges round out my legs. It's just the shoulders now I need to be wary of.



Have you tried 5/3/1 before? Emphasis on slow progression, and very flexible program with lots of different templates put out - including 2 days/wk. The 4 main lifts for you could be: Incline Bench, Close Grip Bench, Trap Bar DL, Front Squat. Fit those into 2 or 3 days/wk and throw in a couple accessories per day.

Wendler 5-3-1? If so that's a good routine... but you have to be super patient if you like to attack your 1RMs. You don't hit those until about week 24! Also It's better spreading it over 4 days with the base lifts, Mon Tues and then Thurs Fri. Ultimately I got too impatient on it. I like to hit 1RM's at least once every 4 weeks. It's a good routine though if you are managing some chronic stuff and are patient.
RE: The reality as we age is our tendons ligaments  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/17/2020 8:09 pm : link
In comment 14812701 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
And Even cartilage isn’t the same. Wear and tear is wear and tear.

If it’s been mentioned sorry but I’d suggest try body weight stuff. Pull ups push ups and dips. Even body weight squats. If you are in Your 40s and not having any issues you are lying and not I. Your 40s. Lol.

I do much less weights wise and added Jiu Jitsu at 42. I’m 53 now. Find something you like. Work of course makes it hard but ditch the treadmill. If you are running on it you are t doing your back any favors.

Lastly yoga is great. I saw it mentions. For mobility and even mind health. It is utterly useless if you want t to add some lean muscle mass. Don’t let anyone tell you it helps build muscles. Resistance training does shire it’s great to strengthen your core but lie anything else it’s what it is. And time is time. Good luck


I'm going to go ahead and disagree with this. Yes at a certain point, you don't can't turn back the heads of time and make sure you got enough sun all the time, ate plenty of vegetables, got consistent exercise, stayed off the booze too much or at least you made sure your booze options were healhtier, and made sure your omega 3/6 balance is at least 1/4.

As far as working out goes using high weight low volume is the key to keeping tendon and ligament strength good. Bodyweight stuff is a lot of repetitive motions. The issue is people use too much weight that they can't properly lift with imppecable form, and most the time they don't even know what that looks like. When you are doing that with your body you are putting a lot of repitive bad motions with immobility issues. Lifting heavy weights makes your body respond in kind, however you really need to get mobility issues taken care of and hot yoga will do that, and give you the cardiovascular conditioning you need if health is your number 1 priority.

I don't even recommend jogging personally to most people, because most people jog with poor posture, myself include, and honestly it isn't optimial for your hurt if you get addicted and do it a ton of it, but then you see the ultra marathon runners and they have imppecable posture. Most of us are built to sprint or run.
Hurt should be heart  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/17/2020 8:20 pm : link

Also just reread your post and if gaining muscle is your number 1 priority, you need to get your diet in check. If your mobility issues aren't too bad, you hare having tendon pain from having your omega 3/6 balance where it needs to be it. Say hello to fatty fish, lamb, and pasture raised beef and eggs, and no processed food. Rice, potatoes (maybe some people have poor reactions to them), al dente pasta (i feel like most can handle this) for your empty carbs for after lifting.
I agree Zeke  
Johnny5 : 2/17/2020 9:38 pm : link
Good posts.
Those who mentioned yoga are dead on.  
Rick in Annapolis : 2/18/2020 6:16 am : link
I suffered from chronic back pain for 15 years, and more recently a rotator cuff injury. Physical Therapy helped the shoulder a lot, but it was only able to get me to 90-95%, I never fully recovered.

I started doing yoga 5 months ago (5-6 hours per week) and neither my back nor shoulder have bothered me since roughly one month after beginning the practice. I regained full range of motion in my shoulder.....pain free.

I enjoy both long distance running and working out with weights. The last few years my weight workouts have incorporated more body weight exercises less free weights, but either way, Yoga is a great compliment to lifting and running and I have never felt better.
RE: Those who mentioned yoga are dead on.  
trueblueinpw : 2/18/2020 7:11 am : link
In comment 14812936 Rick in Annapolis said:
Quote:
I suffered from chronic back pain for 15 years, and more recently a rotator cuff injury. Physical Therapy helped the shoulder a lot, but it was only able to get me to 90-95%, I never fully recovered.

I started doing yoga 5 months ago (5-6 hours per week) and neither my back nor shoulder have bothered me since roughly one month after beginning the practice. I regained full range of motion in my shoulder.....pain free.

I enjoy both long distance running and working out with weights. The last few years my weight workouts have incorporated more body weight exercises less free weights, but either way, Yoga is a great compliment to lifting and running and I have never felt better.


Rick, what kind of yoga do you do? If you don’t mind posting...
Yoga with Adrienne  
DC Gmen Fan : 2/18/2020 9:53 am : link
FTW.
RE: RE: Those who mentioned yoga are dead on.  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/18/2020 9:58 am : link
In comment 14812951 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
In comment 14812936 Rick in Annapolis said:


Quote:


I suffered from chronic back pain for 15 years, and more recently a rotator cuff injury. Physical Therapy helped the shoulder a lot, but it was only able to get me to 90-95%, I never fully recovered.

I started doing yoga 5 months ago (5-6 hours per week) and neither my back nor shoulder have bothered me since roughly one month after beginning the practice. I regained full range of motion in my shoulder.....pain free.

I enjoy both long distance running and working out with weights. The last few years my weight workouts have incorporated more body weight exercises less free weights, but either way, Yoga is a great compliment to lifting and running and I have never felt better.



Rick, what kind of yoga do you do? If you don’t mind posting...


I would highly suggest the Bikram hot yoga, or a similar structured hot yoga. Yoga in general is fantastic, but I've noticed some of the free flowing classes you can end up just reinforcing bad movement patterns. I know Bikram forces you into the correct postures as long as you are listening properly.
RE: RE: Those who mentioned yoga are dead on.  
Rick in Annapolis : 2/18/2020 5:34 pm : link
In comment 14812951 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
In comment 14812936 Rick in Annapolis said:


Quote:


I suffered from chronic back pain for 15 years, and more recently a rotator cuff injury. Physical Therapy helped the shoulder a lot, but it was only able to get me to 90-95%, I never fully recovered.

I started doing yoga 5 months ago (5-6 hours per week) and neither my back nor shoulder have bothered me since roughly one month after beginning the practice. I regained full range of motion in my shoulder.....pain free.

I enjoy both long distance running and working out with weights. The last few years my weight workouts have incorporated more body weight exercises less free weights, but either way, Yoga is a great compliment to lifting and running and I have never felt better.



Rick, what kind of yoga do you do? If you don’t mind posting...



I try to alternate between Vinyasa and Bikram. Bikram is a little odd, dare I say cultish, but once I got past that I found it to be extremely therapeutic.

The Vinyasa builds tremendous core strength and flexibility and the Bikram is more flexibility. The Bikram has helped my back the most.
Bikram....  
Rick in Annapolis : 2/18/2020 5:41 pm : link
...therapeutic part comes when you are done. I’ve sometimes wondered during class why I have subjected myself to such torture. But I feel the same thing when running a half marathon or longer. The reward comes when you are finished.
Rick...100 percent....some of the instructors and people that go  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/18/2020 8:02 pm : link
regularly are very strange. But after watching the documentary I understand it a bit more, some of these people have never worked out or really done anything too active in their life and they found something that pushes them and realize how good it feels and become born again believers.
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