If that isn't the starting point for Team LW than LW has hired a team of incompetent fools.
I’d expect you to say nothing else other than this. You spent the entire season since the trade insisting, shouting, that Williams was going to be making $18 Million/per. That number has always been ridiculous. But you refuse to ever budge. You simply cannot just throw out the franchise tag number and assume that’s the number a free agent is going to sign for annually on a long term contract. There are many more variables at play.
Another hot take for your "LW is gonna get 17m a year " bullshit... Let's face it,your going to be wrong!
It's not about being right. You apply the variables of the market - similar players, current comps, FT tags, etc - and try to make an estimate. And in LW's situation, those variables suggest HE SHOULD ASK for at least $15M.
going to make that kind of money with hardly any sacks. Sorry but not going to happen and if it does it better not be us. The trade was to expensive to begin with esp seeing we gave up two picks if we keep him.
If that isn't the starting point for Team LW than LW has hired a team of incompetent fools.
I’d expect you to say nothing else other than this. You spent the entire season since the trade insisting, shouting, that Williams was going to be making $18 Million/per. That number has always been ridiculous. But you refuse to ever budge. You simply cannot just throw out the franchise tag number and assume that’s the number a free agent is going to sign for annually on a long term contract. There are many more variables at play.
From another member of the Uninformed Club...I was also using recent comps like Grady Jarrett and Jurrell Casey.
Similar production to LW and, again, recent contracts signed.
1. Screen shot on Twitter of an Instgram chat, LOL, no way that's fake!
2. The quote doesn't exactly read in the way some of you want it to -- he's saying putting a price out is not to his advantage, not that he's willing to take less
3. With the dollars on the sideline in UFA, why won't Williams receive an offer in excess to the deal Grady Jarret received?
The exercise about LW's upcoming contract hasn't been what anyone thinks he's worth based on some feeling.
No. It's been about applying the circumstances we've seen in the markets for DTs the last two years and trying to set a baseline...
I suspect there's an element of some fans holding out hope Gettleman pulled a smart one by acquiring Williams, and somewhere in there is a factor that will work to the Giants financial advantage.
I suspect the only advantage gained is the right to franchise at 17M+.
I'm 100 percent sure the Giants won't pay him an average of 17 MILLION a year like dw likes to spout out as fact any chance he can. We know you hate DG... We know you hate the trade... Let's just see where it ends up. Your a very good poster here. Don't ruin that with the same shit over and over,it gets really tired.
But if LW was willing to sign for the number many fans want to believe he'll take, he'd be extended already. Or, at a minimum, he'll be signed before free agency opens, without the use of the tag. We'll know shortly which fans are applying logic and which are just entrenched in their view of DG, for better or worse.
Then again, not one but two posters last week tried to claim that the well-known and publicly documented 2019 salary for LW was incorrect, adding snarky commentary like "facts matter." So maybe I shouldn't be so quick to assume that the actual facts will change much about the conversation except the the verb tense in the same arguments, where common sense has to face off against wishful thinking.
This trade has certainly been a divisive topic on BBI. And a bit of an exercise in logic and standard business negotiation leverage, too.
if we got him locked up for 4 years @ $15M per, more if they like what he's doing off the field. The Giants got a taste to see how he might impact the players around him in the leadership/energy he brings. He may get a little more or less based on this factor.....
1) If someone is franchised and then gets a leg or back injury while tagged, (a common occurrence for interior DL)...does the player have more or less leverage?
2) Is it better to have some guaranteed money now or run the risk of an injury which might severely reduce or eliminate all future revenue from ones career?
Ok, with those very personal questions for the player and his family answered now can we re-assess "he has all the leverage"?
I'm 100 percent sure the Giants won't pay him an average of 17 MILLION a year like dw likes to spout out as fact any chance he can. We know you hate DG... We know you hate the trade... Let's just see where it ends up. Your a very good poster here. Don't ruin that with the same shit over and over,it gets really tired.
I don't like DG and certainly didn't like the LW trade - guilty.
But that has nothing to do with my predictions. I was studying the market conditions and the $17M baseline seemed like the landing spot. And that's all a derivative of existing contracts for the same position.
really doesn't have any more or less leverage with the Giants.
The giants don't have to sign him - and they have a couple capable players in Lawrence and Tomlinson. The idea that the Giants have to sign him no matter what is just fiction.
Leverage will only exist when he has an offer to shop or the Giants lost a DT in the offseason due to a freak injury.
1) If someone is franchised and then gets a leg or back injury while tagged, (a common occurrence for interior DL)...does the player have more or less leverage?
2) Is it better to have some guaranteed money now or run the risk of an injury which might severely reduce or eliminate all future revenue from ones career?
With those very personal considerations for the player and his family taken into account, is it really true that: "he has all the leverage"?
is getting $17 mill with 1/2 sack the previous season. My guess is $12-14 maybe..but should be $10-$12 mill since he is young, uninjured and pushes the pocket while being stout against the run.
The giants don't have to sign him - and they have a couple capable players in Lawrence and Tomlinson. The idea that the Giants have to sign him no matter what is just fiction.
Totally agree. That's been my position all along. We have players who are younger, cheaper and produce similarly. So there is a redundancy to LW's addition...
The giants don't have to sign him - and they have a couple capable players in Lawrence and Tomlinson. The idea that the Giants have to sign him no matter what is just fiction.
Totally agree. That's been my position all along. We have players who are younger, cheaper and produce similarly. So there is a redundancy to LW's addition...
The giants don't have to sign him - and they have a couple capable players in Lawrence and Tomlinson. The idea that the Giants have to sign him no matter what is just fiction.
Totally agree. That's been my position all along. We have players who are younger, cheaper and produce similarly. So there is a redundancy to LW's addition...
Which is why, btw, I was against the trade in the first place.
The giants don't have to sign him - and they have a couple capable players in Lawrence and Tomlinson. The idea that the Giants have to sign him no matter what is just fiction.
The leverage story only holds water if you accept the theory DG will budge because he doesn't want to lose face over the draft picks.
I don't expect DG to factor that in at all.
Much later, and separately I do hope Mara evaluates whether trading for him was a good general management move, as part of his overall assessment of DG.
Michael Brockers - $11 million per
Donkey Kong Suh - $9.8 Million per
Derek Wolfe - $9 Million per
Gerald McCoy - $8 million per.
So a 50% bump from the next highest paid guy in one year??? No freaking way.
Let's approach it this way. The projected franchise tag for DTs in 2020 is projected to be $15M+. DG should know that, and so should Team LW. Not knowing that is negligence for either side.
But there is one more layer. For the player, it's either the $15M or 120% of his last year's total comp, whichever is >. For LW, he made $14.2M in 2019. Thus, 120% of that = $17M. Which means $17M isn't actually out of whack due to the actual market.
And based on recent contracts for similar players in Grady Jarrett ($17M) and Jurrell Casey ($15M), and knowing the compensation for one year franchise tag, why wouldn't LW want at LEAST $15M to start a multi-year deal?
The giants don't have to sign him - and they have a couple capable players in Lawrence and Tomlinson. The idea that the Giants have to sign him no matter what is just fiction.
Totally agree. That's been my position all along. We have players who are younger, cheaper and produce similarly. So there is a redundancy to LW's addition...
Agree with all this. I mean, who needs this guy? A waste.
Michael Brockers - $11 million per
Donkey Kong Suh - $9.8 Million per
Derek Wolfe - $9 Million per
Gerald McCoy - $8 million per.
So a 50% bump from the next highest paid guy in one year??? No freaking way.
Let's approach it this way. The projected franchise tag for DTs in 2020 is projected to be $15M+. DG should know that, and so should Team LW. Not knowing that is negligence for either side.
But there is one more layer. For the player, it's either the $15M or 120% of his last year's total comp, whichever is >. For LW, he made $14.2M in 2019. Thus, 120% of that = $17M. Which means $17M isn't actually out of whack due to the actual market.
And based on recent contracts for similar players in Grady Jarrett ($17M) and Jurrell Casey ($15M), and knowing the compensation for one year franchise tag, why wouldn't LW want at LEAST $15M to start a multi-year deal?
You keep using Grady Jarrett as some kind of proof that Williams should start there. Let me ask you something. How many teams have used Nate Solders deal to set the market on mediocre RTs? Two years later and he’s still the second highest paid LT in the NFL this upcoming season. Mediocre players that sucker poorly managed teams in to overpaying aren’t going to be indicative of future deals leaguewide. Not one other mediocre LT has signed a contract anywhere in the stratosphere as Solder. So Jarretts Deal has absolutely nothing to do with what Williams gets. Sure, he can ask for that. Doesn’t mean that’s his market value. His market value is what the market says it is and nobody knows what that may be.
Also, as I mentioned earlier, please stop using the franchise tag value as some sort of starting point for a long term deal. That’s not how this works. Teams do not pay mediocre players long term deals based on the one year franchise tag number that averages out the top 5 players at the position in the entire league. Again, the market will dictate what Williams is worth, not last years signing and certainly not the franchise tag number.
The way I read LW's comments in that instagram chat, I took it to mean that he thought it was stupid to name is price because he felt he could possibly get MORE than $15M. The guy I was discussing it with felt LW was saying "No, $15M is too much". I think that's the dumbest interpretation of that ever.
LW is saying the dumbest thing you can do is name a price. So why would he imply that $15M is "too much". That's essentially setting a a ceiling for yourself and indirectly doing what you're saying is a stupid thing to do in the first place.
I guess we'll see but I don't think this is going to be an easy negotiation.
the tag threat and the fact (maybe) the LW wants to stay in Ny area.
There is no reason to compare LW to the highest paid DTs in the NFL, he will not get that type of money. He is simply not that good. He's good, but not top 5 money good
is getting $17 mill with 1/2 sack the previous season. My guess is $12-14 maybe..but should be $10-$12 mill since he is young, uninjured and pushes the pocket while being stout against the run.
I agree. I think he ends up with $13million a year
I place heavier value and upside on Williams than Many here, but the most important thing is that DG DOES AS WELL.
With Expanded FA Dollars and Limted Players, DG WANTED the franchise tag as Leverage.
Yes...Williams might get TAGGED for a year at $17m...or he might like a longer deal with $30-40Million Guaranteed, at a Lower per Annum.
EVERYONE who tried to Trade for Williams did so with the idea of gaining the Leverage of the FT...otherwise, everyone would have waited...and had ZERO Negotiating Leverage.
“I know that I want to get a big contract, and I know that I am worth a lot.”
On hitting free agency:
Quote:
“If I don’t think they’re giving me what I think I’m worth, then obviously I think hitting free agency would make sense. Everything is going to have to match up.”
On where he ranks himself and what position he considers himself:
Quote:
“I definitely think I’m a top-tier interior defensive lineman, in that top percentage of the d-linemen. I wouldn’t say Aaron Donald [level]. But I would definitely put myself up there with a lot of those other top guys.”
If he thinks he’s a top tier interior defensive lineman, just below Donald, I’d say his expectations are closer to Jarret dollars than, 12M a year. Does the market with 1.6B in cap dollars agree?
Of course the franchise tag is in play. But that isn’t, and has never been your point. You’ve been adamant that franchise tag number is the starting point for the annual salary on a long term deal. It’s not. You are simply wrong. It’s been your mapping focal point, in fact. Maybe for the player, sure. But the important thing is the team and what they deem as proper value. The franchise number means absolutely nothing when it comes to a long term deal with a non elite player.
And again, Garrett Jackson also means nothing. You never answered my question. How many teams have rushed out to sign mediocre LTs to top 5 money since Solder signed his ludicrous deal? The answer is, it hasn’t happened. Williams may WANT a deal similar to Jackson’s deal, sure. That doesn’t mean he’s going to get it. Isn’t THAT the important thing?
Maybe he will or won't, but I wouldn't hang my hat on an ambiguous quote someone screen shot from Instagram, in their Twitter, and the quote doesn't remotely support the notion he won't ask for 15M.
Of course the franchise tag is in play. But that isn’t, and has never been your point. You’ve been adamant that franchise tag number is the starting point for the annual salary on a long term deal. It’s not. You are simply wrong. It’s been your mapping focal point, in fact. Maybe for the player, sure. But the important thing is the team and what they deem as proper value. The franchise number means absolutely nothing when it comes to a long term deal with a non elite player.
And again, Garrett Jackson also means nothing. You never answered my question. How many teams have rushed out to sign mediocre LTs to top 5 money since Solder signed his ludicrous deal? The answer is, it hasn’t happened. Williams may WANT a deal similar to Jackson’s deal, sure. That doesn’t mean he’s going to get it. Isn’t THAT the important thing?
I have no idea why you would say GJarrett means nothing. He's a very similar player. Just look at the stats I listed. Sorry, but comps absolutely matter. Just like they do when you are buying a house...
Furthermore, I believe my position has been that Team LW would know LW's market worth by (1) comps of similar players and (2) being able to compare that to the FT for DTs. As it turned out, both (1) and (2) just happen to overlap. And therefore it would make sense for that to be Team LW's starting point for contract talks.
LW's 2019 comp put him at a franchise tag level of $17M and Grady Jarrett's contract, signed in July 2019, was basically worth $68M/4 yrs, an AAV of $17M. So it's really less about my opinion and more about what the market has dictated.
Now, I agree that doesn't mean that's where DG will start and where he thinks LW's true value is. And we could get lucky and get a number that is team friendly.
But if Team LW does their job, they should have a lot of market material to make a strong case for $17M.
what exactly is the point of suggesting potential ranges of $12-14M in this thread?
Obviously the structure will have guaranteed and base, but are you suggesting LW thinks he is getting worse as a player?
Where does everyone keep coming up with $14 Million for Williams’ 2019 salary? I’ve seen it posted here numerous times. According to both Spotrac and OTC his salary was nowhere near that. It looks like the $14M people keep looking as is the dead cap on his 5th year option if he was released or traded, of which the Jets got hit with $10M of. I’m not pretending to be a cap expert, maybe there’s something I’m not seeing? Spotrac - ( New Window )
I’d expect you to say nothing else other than this. You spent the entire season since the trade insisting, shouting, that Williams was going to be making $18 Million/per. That number has always been ridiculous. But you refuse to ever budge. You simply cannot just throw out the franchise tag number and assume that’s the number a free agent is going to sign for annually on a long term contract. There are many more variables at play.
It's not about being right. You apply the variables of the market - similar players, current comps, FT tags, etc - and try to make an estimate. And in LW's situation, those variables suggest HE SHOULD ASK for at least $15M.
Quote:
If that isn't the starting point for Team LW than LW has hired a team of incompetent fools.
I’d expect you to say nothing else other than this. You spent the entire season since the trade insisting, shouting, that Williams was going to be making $18 Million/per. That number has always been ridiculous. But you refuse to ever budge. You simply cannot just throw out the franchise tag number and assume that’s the number a free agent is going to sign for annually on a long term contract. There are many more variables at play.
From another member of the Uninformed Club...I was also using recent comps like Grady Jarrett and Jurrell Casey.
Similar production to LW and, again, recent contracts signed.
2. The quote doesn't exactly read in the way some of you want it to -- he's saying putting a price out is not to his advantage, not that he's willing to take less
3. With the dollars on the sideline in UFA, why won't Williams receive an offer in excess to the deal Grady Jarret received?
3. With the dollars on the sideline in UFA, why won't Williams receive an offer in excess to the deal Grady Jarret received?
Or at least ask for that.
The exercise about LW's upcoming contract hasn't been what anyone thinks he's worth based on some feeling.
No. It's been about applying the circumstances we've seen in the markets for DTs the last two years and trying to set a baseline...
No. It's been about applying the circumstances we've seen in the markets for DTs the last two years and trying to set a baseline...
I suspect there's an element of some fans holding out hope Gettleman pulled a smart one by acquiring Williams, and somewhere in there is a factor that will work to the Giants financial advantage.
I suspect the only advantage gained is the right to franchise at 17M+.
Agree 100%. As George Constanza would say, LW has "hand" in any negotiations with the Giants.
Then again, not one but two posters last week tried to claim that the well-known and publicly documented 2019 salary for LW was incorrect, adding snarky commentary like "facts matter." So maybe I shouldn't be so quick to assume that the actual facts will change much about the conversation except the the verb tense in the same arguments, where common sense has to face off against wishful thinking.
This trade has certainly been a divisive topic on BBI. And a bit of an exercise in logic and standard business negotiation leverage, too.
+1
this seems fair to me, we will see what happens
2) Is it better to have some guaranteed money now or run the risk of an injury which might severely reduce or eliminate all future revenue from ones career?
Ok, with those very personal questions for the player and his family answered now can we re-assess "he has all the leverage"?
I don't like DG and certainly didn't like the LW trade - guilty.
But that has nothing to do with my predictions. I was studying the market conditions and the $17M baseline seemed like the landing spot. And that's all a derivative of existing contracts for the same position.
The giants don't have to sign him - and they have a couple capable players in Lawrence and Tomlinson. The idea that the Giants have to sign him no matter what is just fiction.
Leverage will only exist when he has an offer to shop or the Giants lost a DT in the offseason due to a freak injury.
Michael Brockers - $11 million per
Donkey Kong Suh - $9.8 Million per
Derek Wolfe - $9 Million per
Gerald McCoy - $8 million per.
So a 50% bump from the next highest paid guy in one year??? No freaking way.
2) Is it better to have some guaranteed money now or run the risk of an injury which might severely reduce or eliminate all future revenue from ones career?
With those very personal considerations for the player and his family taken into account, is it really true that: "he has all the leverage"?
The giants don't have to sign him - and they have a couple capable players in Lawrence and Tomlinson. The idea that the Giants have to sign him no matter what is just fiction.
Totally agree. That's been my position all along. We have players who are younger, cheaper and produce similarly. So there is a redundancy to LW's addition...
Quote:
The giants don't have to sign him - and they have a couple capable players in Lawrence and Tomlinson. The idea that the Giants have to sign him no matter what is just fiction.
Totally agree. That's been my position all along. We have players who are younger, cheaper and produce similarly. So there is a redundancy to LW's addition...
What do you mean younger? He’s 25 years of age
Quote:
The giants don't have to sign him - and they have a couple capable players in Lawrence and Tomlinson. The idea that the Giants have to sign him no matter what is just fiction.
Totally agree. That's been my position all along. We have players who are younger, cheaper and produce similarly. So there is a redundancy to LW's addition...
Which is why, btw, I was against the trade in the first place.
The leverage story only holds water if you accept the theory DG will budge because he doesn't want to lose face over the draft picks.
I don't expect DG to factor that in at all.
Much later, and separately I do hope Mara evaluates whether trading for him was a good general management move, as part of his overall assessment of DG.
Michael Brockers - $11 million per
Donkey Kong Suh - $9.8 Million per
Derek Wolfe - $9 Million per
Gerald McCoy - $8 million per.
So a 50% bump from the next highest paid guy in one year??? No freaking way.
Let's approach it this way. The projected franchise tag for DTs in 2020 is projected to be $15M+. DG should know that, and so should Team LW. Not knowing that is negligence for either side.
But there is one more layer. For the player, it's either the $15M or 120% of his last year's total comp, whichever is >. For LW, he made $14.2M in 2019. Thus, 120% of that = $17M. Which means $17M isn't actually out of whack due to the actual market.
And based on recent contracts for similar players in Grady Jarrett ($17M) and Jurrell Casey ($15M), and knowing the compensation for one year franchise tag, why wouldn't LW want at LEAST $15M to start a multi-year deal?
Quote:
The giants don't have to sign him - and they have a couple capable players in Lawrence and Tomlinson. The idea that the Giants have to sign him no matter what is just fiction.
Totally agree. That's been my position all along. We have players who are younger, cheaper and produce similarly. So there is a redundancy to LW's addition...
Agree with all this. I mean, who needs this guy? A waste.
Quote:
He's a 3-4 DE and the top 3 at OTC are as follows
Michael Brockers - $11 million per
Donkey Kong Suh - $9.8 Million per
Derek Wolfe - $9 Million per
Gerald McCoy - $8 million per.
So a 50% bump from the next highest paid guy in one year??? No freaking way.
Let's approach it this way. The projected franchise tag for DTs in 2020 is projected to be $15M+. DG should know that, and so should Team LW. Not knowing that is negligence for either side.
But there is one more layer. For the player, it's either the $15M or 120% of his last year's total comp, whichever is >. For LW, he made $14.2M in 2019. Thus, 120% of that = $17M. Which means $17M isn't actually out of whack due to the actual market.
And based on recent contracts for similar players in Grady Jarrett ($17M) and Jurrell Casey ($15M), and knowing the compensation for one year franchise tag, why wouldn't LW want at LEAST $15M to start a multi-year deal?
You keep using Grady Jarrett as some kind of proof that Williams should start there. Let me ask you something. How many teams have used Nate Solders deal to set the market on mediocre RTs? Two years later and he’s still the second highest paid LT in the NFL this upcoming season. Mediocre players that sucker poorly managed teams in to overpaying aren’t going to be indicative of future deals leaguewide. Not one other mediocre LT has signed a contract anywhere in the stratosphere as Solder. So Jarretts Deal has absolutely nothing to do with what Williams gets. Sure, he can ask for that. Doesn’t mean that’s his market value. His market value is what the market says it is and nobody knows what that may be.
Also, as I mentioned earlier, please stop using the franchise tag value as some sort of starting point for a long term deal. That’s not how this works. Teams do not pay mediocre players long term deals based on the one year franchise tag number that averages out the top 5 players at the position in the entire league. Again, the market will dictate what Williams is worth, not last years signing and certainly not the franchise tag number.
Jackson comp is completely worthwhile. Same age, same position, same draft. Similar career production YTD.
Jackson - 77 games, 21 sacks, 248 total tackles, 133 solos, 5 forced fumbles, 43 tackles for loss, 56 QB hits.
LW - 78 games, 17.5 sacks, 266 total tackles, 135 solos, 3 forced fumbles, 34 tackles for loss, 101 QB hits.
In fact, it's almost the perfect comp...
LW is saying the dumbest thing you can do is name a price. So why would he imply that $15M is "too much". That's essentially setting a a ceiling for yourself and indirectly doing what you're saying is a stupid thing to do in the first place.
I guess we'll see but I don't think this is going to be an easy negotiation.
There is no reason to compare LW to the highest paid DTs in the NFL, he will not get that type of money. He is simply not that good. He's good, but not top 5 money good
I agree. I think he ends up with $13million a year
With Expanded FA Dollars and Limted Players, DG WANTED the franchise tag as Leverage.
Yes...Williams might get TAGGED for a year at $17m...or he might like a longer deal with $30-40Million Guaranteed, at a Lower per Annum.
EVERYONE who tried to Trade for Williams did so with the idea of gaining the Leverage of the FT...otherwise, everyone would have waited...and had ZERO Negotiating Leverage.
On what he thinks he’s worth:
On hitting free agency:
On where he ranks himself and what position he considers himself:
If he thinks he’s a top tier interior defensive lineman, just below Donald, I’d say his expectations are closer to Jarret dollars than, 12M a year. Does the market with 1.6B in cap dollars agree?
Jackson comp is completely worthwhile. Same age, same position, same draft. Similar career production YTD.
Jackson - 77 games, 21 sacks, 248 total tackles, 133 solos, 5 forced fumbles, 43 tackles for loss, 56 QB hits.
LW - 78 games, 17.5 sacks, 266 total tackles, 135 solos, 3 forced fumbles, 34 tackles for loss, 101 QB hits.
In fact, it's almost the perfect comp...
Of course the franchise tag is in play. But that isn’t, and has never been your point. You’ve been adamant that franchise tag number is the starting point for the annual salary on a long term deal. It’s not. You are simply wrong. It’s been your mapping focal point, in fact. Maybe for the player, sure. But the important thing is the team and what they deem as proper value. The franchise number means absolutely nothing when it comes to a long term deal with a non elite player.
And again, Garrett Jackson also means nothing. You never answered my question. How many teams have rushed out to sign mediocre LTs to top 5 money since Solder signed his ludicrous deal? The answer is, it hasn’t happened. Williams may WANT a deal similar to Jackson’s deal, sure. That doesn’t mean he’s going to get it. Isn’t THAT the important thing?
I gotta start writing this stuff down
I gotta start writing this stuff down
Maybe he will or won't, but I wouldn't hang my hat on an ambiguous quote someone screen shot from Instagram, in their Twitter, and the quote doesn't remotely support the notion he won't ask for 15M.
Quote:
But the franchise tag is in play as a solution here. You don't think that was a consideration when DG traded for LW?
Jackson comp is completely worthwhile. Same age, same position, same draft. Similar career production YTD.
Jackson - 77 games, 21 sacks, 248 total tackles, 133 solos, 5 forced fumbles, 43 tackles for loss, 56 QB hits.
LW - 78 games, 17.5 sacks, 266 total tackles, 135 solos, 3 forced fumbles, 34 tackles for loss, 101 QB hits.
In fact, it's almost the perfect comp...
Of course the franchise tag is in play. But that isn’t, and has never been your point. You’ve been adamant that franchise tag number is the starting point for the annual salary on a long term deal. It’s not. You are simply wrong. It’s been your mapping focal point, in fact. Maybe for the player, sure. But the important thing is the team and what they deem as proper value. The franchise number means absolutely nothing when it comes to a long term deal with a non elite player.
And again, Garrett Jackson also means nothing. You never answered my question. How many teams have rushed out to sign mediocre LTs to top 5 money since Solder signed his ludicrous deal? The answer is, it hasn’t happened. Williams may WANT a deal similar to Jackson’s deal, sure. That doesn’t mean he’s going to get it. Isn’t THAT the important thing?
I have no idea why you would say GJarrett means nothing. He's a very similar player. Just look at the stats I listed. Sorry, but comps absolutely matter. Just like they do when you are buying a house...
Furthermore, I believe my position has been that Team LW would know LW's market worth by (1) comps of similar players and (2) being able to compare that to the FT for DTs. As it turned out, both (1) and (2) just happen to overlap. And therefore it would make sense for that to be Team LW's starting point for contract talks.
LW's 2019 comp put him at a franchise tag level of $17M and Grady Jarrett's contract, signed in July 2019, was basically worth $68M/4 yrs, an AAV of $17M. So it's really less about my opinion and more about what the market has dictated.
Now, I agree that doesn't mean that's where DG will start and where he thinks LW's true value is. And we could get lucky and get a number that is team friendly.
But if Team LW does their job, they should have a lot of market material to make a strong case for $17M.
Obviously the structure will have guaranteed and base, but are you suggesting LW thinks he is getting worse as a player?
Obviously the structure will have guaranteed and base, but are you suggesting LW thinks he is getting worse as a player?
Where does everyone keep coming up with $14 Million for Williams’ 2019 salary? I’ve seen it posted here numerous times. According to both Spotrac and OTC his salary was nowhere near that. It looks like the $14M people keep looking as is the dead cap on his 5th year option if he was released or traded, of which the Jets got hit with $10M of. I’m not pretending to be a cap expert, maybe there’s something I’m not seeing?
Spotrac - ( New Window )
OTC - ( New Window )
Obviously the structure will have guaranteed and base, but are you suggesting LW thinks he is getting worse as a player?
What are these facts you speak of? Can you confirm?