Riddle me this: what's more important to the Giants on Defense right now - an elite Edge Rusher, an elite OLB, an Elite MLB, an elite CB or an Elite Safety? Link - ( New Window )
For a defense that values versatility, Jones can play outside corner, slot and safety. Even though he doesn't have very good ball skills, he's a really good player.
I'm not sure he'd be my #1 priority, but he'd be a pretty high one.
stop creating new threads....stop covering for the NY Giants organizations. Who is giving the you the talking points seriously ? That whole unit is total shit, except the the dline.
at corner. Let's keep running them out there to see if they can play. I'm becoming less and less a fan of high priced corners. Unless you get a Revis type with guaranteed results, almost all of these corners are close in skills.
So let's build a pass rush to take pressure off the corners.
So let's build a pass rush to take pressure off the corners
the problem with this roster building approach is the devaluation of pass rush impact on the game given the pace the ball gets out of the QB's hands. You have to cover to pass rush successfully in today's game.
the problem with this roster building approach is the devaluation of pass rush impact on the game given the pace the ball gets out of the QB's hands. You have to cover to pass rush successfully in today's game.
And it's just as challenging to cover receivers with the quick passing game. So there should be a larger premium on corners who can tackle and have short area quickness/speed.
at corner. Let's keep running them out there to see if they can play. I'm becoming less and less a fan of high priced corners. Unless you get a Revis type with guaranteed results, almost all of these corners are close in skills.
So let's build a pass rush to take pressure off the corners.
I’d argue that a quality free safety might help more. Bethea was slow to react and out of position quite often last year. He should be a coach because I know he probably knows what he needs to do, just can’t do it anymore at a high level anyway.
Baker, Beal, Ballantine, Love and Haley will all be either CB, Nickel CB. Love can also play safety.
Lombardi is terrible. All the abuse he gets is warranted. Bryon Jones would be a welcome addition but baker, beal, balentine, hamilton and the other corner we have might be really nice. I think we have to see how they do in a real defense without the worst DC in the history of football and with now a full year under there belt. I would like jones a lot, we need a guy just like him but we have to see what Baker, Beal and Ballentine have and we must sign a dominant pass rusher, offensive lineman and a speedy sick good linebacker. IMO those 3 positions come first before you invest any more capital in a corner.
at corner. Let's keep running them out there to see if they can play. I'm becoming less and less a fan of high priced corners. Unless you get a Revis type with guaranteed results, almost all of these corners are close in skills.
So let's build a pass rush to take pressure off the corners.
I’d argue that a quality free safety might help more. Bethea was slow to react and out of position quite often last year. He should be a coach because I know he probably knows what he needs to do, just can’t do it anymore at a high level anyway.
Baker, Beal, Ballantine, Love and Haley will all be either CB, Nickel CB. Love can also play safety.
Edge, LB and FS is what we need to be adding.
I'm leaning more and more to this level of thinking. I would also add a safety/slot corner is now one of most critical spots to find a solution because of the impact the TE and/or slot WR create in the middle of the field.
If 2 QBs and Young are taken in front of us (and that seems like the most likely scenario at this point), then Okudah is the best player available. The only way we invest significant $ in a corner is if we've already decided we're not taking Okudah, even if he falls to us. Possible, but not likely.
When it comes to big ticket FAs I like the idea of Jones
more than I do any of the other names tossed around, including Conklin and Ngakoue. Not that I dislike those guys or wouldnt be happy to see them here. But talking pure talent and minimal risk, gimme Jones.
Be a great addition. Can play FS with Love & Peppers roaming. Lots of versatility there and they all can play well enough at different spots to keep em guessing.
Top target is any chinese buffet he drives past, so he's an expert.
Are you thinking of Mike Lombardi instead of Matt Lombardo? Unless maybe you know something that makes you think Lombardo has an affinity for Chinese food?
Top target is any chinese buffet he drives past, so he's an expert.
Are you thinking of Mike Lombardi instead of Matt Lombardo? Unless maybe you know something that makes you think Lombardo has an affinity for Chinese food?
and jones has not really stood out to me. he's not a bad player by any stretch but i would not give him big money.
honestly i have a hard time giving anyone from that dallas team big money. they collectively all underachieved and that defense could not get big stops this year when they needed to.
and jones has not really stood out to me. he's not a bad player by any stretch but i would not give him big money.
honestly i have a hard time giving anyone from that dallas team big money. they collectively all underachieved and that defense could not get big stops this year when they needed to.
He was really, really good last year.
53% completion rate against, 395 yards on 64 target in 14 games. He only gave up more than 50 yards in one game.
He's not a turnover guy, he's just a really tight cover guy.
At his age I'm not paying him huge dollars, but for a contender he'd be a great addition.
and jones has not really stood out to me. he's not a bad player by any stretch but i would not give him big money.
honestly i have a hard time giving anyone from that dallas team big money. they collectively all underachieved and that defense could not get big stops this year when they needed to.
He was really, really good last year.
53% completion rate against, 395 yards on 64 target in 14 games. He only gave up more than 50 yards in one game.
He's not a turnover guy, he's just a really tight cover guy.
At his age I'm not paying him huge dollars, but for a contender he'd be a great addition.
At his age? Hes 27. Hes in his prime. Yeah, i wish they were all 25 but its rare. Hes near the top at his spot, and he plays one of the most valued positions in the league. That, understandably, gets top dollar.
Fwiw Im not necessarily railing to sign Jones. Im just responding to what I see are unrealistic expectations/wants from the FA market, which is bound to turn into bitching and moaning come March/April.
At his age? Hes 27. Hes in his prime. Yeah, i wish they were all 25 but its rare. Hes near the top at his spot, and he plays one of the most valued positions in the league. That, understandably, gets top dollar.
I'm wrong, for some reason I thought he was a few years older. He's definitely got plenty of tread left to be an impact player for 3-4 more years.
and jones has not really stood out to me. he's not a bad player by any stretch but i would not give him big money.
honestly i have a hard time giving anyone from that dallas team big money. they collectively all underachieved and that defense could not get big stops this year when they needed to.
He was really, really good last year.
53% completion rate against, 395 yards on 64 target in 14 games. He only gave up more than 50 yards in one game.
He's not a turnover guy, he's just a really tight cover guy.
At his age I'm not paying him huge dollars, but for a contender he'd be a great addition.
This right here... the guy was one of the top lock down CBs in the NFL last year and is only 27. Yes we should sign him and be thankful to have him.
He's going to want a truckload of money, and we have a ton of corners, and need OL and LB much more. Let's see what our CBs can do.
Ditto on this. Said the same thing earlier. We have used draft picks on the position, especially last year. Now that they have a year under their belt, let's see who can grow into the role and get better...
Otherwise, just another poor job by DG in acquiring talent.
He's going to want a truckload of money, and we have a ton of corners, and need OL and LB much more. Let's see what our CBs can do.
Ditto on this. Said the same thing earlier. We have used draft picks on the position, especially last year. Now that they have a year under their belt, let's see who can grow into the role and get better...
Otherwise, just another poor job by DG in acquiring talent.
Id argue the opposite. Passing on the opportunity to augment the position after adding 1st, 3rd, and 6th the previous year would be a poor job of acquiring talent when one flashed late neither of the other 2 showed any real indication of being able to play at this level.
Rolling into the season with the 3 B's as your top CBs is like playing Russian roulette with 5 in the chamber. This is beginning to remind me of when many folks here were pencilling in Wheeler and Bisnowaty as the bookends of the future.
I'd like to sign the best center on the market and a top-tier cb and/or fs. But Gettleman didn't clear out $50mm in cap space for no reason at all. Personally I would rather over-pay for someone that is the best at his position than a A-/B- player on the cheap. You have to count on some of these 2nd and 3rd year role-players coming up to the next level and sign a few gamebreakers, or else this entire conversation is moot. Plugging perceived holes with slightly above-average players is not going to take this team to the playoffs unless the guys we have take a big step forward.
That’s a major reason we won our last 2 Super Bowls. It’s great to have shut down corners, but with today’s offensive friendly rules the only sure way to stop someone is to sack or disrupt the QB.
Top target is any chinese buffet he drives past, so he's an expert.
Are you thinking of Mike Lombardi instead of Matt Lombardo? Unless maybe you know something that makes you think Lombardo has an affinity for Chinese food?
Yeah you got them mixed up, got it. I find that being an argumentative dick works best when you have your info buttoned up, but maybe that's just my style.
Yeah he's a fat choad.
The other thing is he has a great character and teammate. He is the kind of leader of the young CB's the Giant's have. He is not a me first player like Jackrabbit was and will help the youngsters out.
Now he is what the Giant's need, I am not sure, but at the right price he would be awesome
That’s a major reason we won our last 2 Super Bowls. It’s great to have shut down corners, but with today’s offensive friendly rules the only sure way to stop someone is to sack or disrupt the QB.
and certainly rather have the money go that way versus Leonard Williams.
Free agent money should be filtered towards good but non-splash signings at LB, Safety, and Center. If somehow OT fits the budget then okay otherwise wait until the draft.
Anthony Harris should be their top target. One of them, at least.
He can play any of CB, Slot, or FS. They have other needs, but he would be a good addition. It seems we can sign 2 or three higher-priced guys. If Williams is one then I would like to see them first get an ER (there are several) and then possibly a DB, maybe a vet ILB.
Focus the draft for OL and WR unless the BPA at the time is a lot better than the WR/OL options.
he spends a 1, which was originally a 2 and a 5, for Baker, a 3 for Beal, a 4 for Love, and a 6 for Ballentine
and the position is still so bad that we need to go out and spend top of the market dollar on a CB who doesn't cause turnovers
it's about resource allocation. and this is a TREMENDOUS amount of resources spent one 1 position. and you wonder why there are holes all over this roster
he spends a 1, which was originally a 2 and a 5, for Baker, a 3 for Beal, a 4 for Love, and a 6 for Ballentine
and the position is still so bad that we need to go out and spend top of the market dollar on a CB who doesn't cause turnovers
it's about resource allocation. and this is a TREMENDOUS amount of resources spent one 1 position. and you wonder why there are holes all over this roster
Everyone of those players is a young guy and probable starter going into next season. That's not an egregious amount of resources if it yields 3 or 4 quality starters.
The number of CB's who improved greatly in Years 2 and 3 is high. And it includes some of the guys looked on as really good after that. Guys like Norman and Collins are two prominent examples.
he spends a 1, which was originally a 2 and a 5, for Baker, a 3 for Beal, a 4 for Love, and a 6 for Ballentine
and the position is still so bad that we need to go out and spend top of the market dollar on a CB who doesn't cause turnovers
it's about resource allocation. and this is a TREMENDOUS amount of resources spent one 1 position. and you wonder why there are holes all over this roster
One position? How many players do you think a secondary typically has?
I'm not sure he'd be my #1 priority, but he'd be a pretty high one.
Also, given all the needs we have on defense it's entirely possible we won't get them all filled in one UFA crop. That's where you get lost ...
If you limit yourself to 25-year old unrestricted free agents, then your available pool is going to be incredibly small.
So let's build a pass rush to take pressure off the corners.
And it's just as challenging to cover receivers with the quick passing game. So there should be a larger premium on corners who can tackle and have short area quickness/speed.
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I would rather spend my FA $$ on 25-26 year olds.
If you limit yourself to 25-year old unrestricted free agents, then your available pool is going to be incredibly small.
While I agree, my point is I think we are still 2-3 years away. If we were at a position where we are a contender now, then older players make sense.
So let's build a pass rush to take pressure off the corners.
I’d argue that a quality free safety might help more. Bethea was slow to react and out of position quite often last year. He should be a coach because I know he probably knows what he needs to do, just can’t do it anymore at a high level anyway.
Baker, Beal, Ballantine, Love and Haley will all be either CB, Nickel CB. Love can also play safety.
Edge, LB and FS is what we need to be adding.
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at corner. Let's keep running them out there to see if they can play. I'm becoming less and less a fan of high priced corners. Unless you get a Revis type with guaranteed results, almost all of these corners are close in skills.
So let's build a pass rush to take pressure off the corners.
I’d argue that a quality free safety might help more. Bethea was slow to react and out of position quite often last year. He should be a coach because I know he probably knows what he needs to do, just can’t do it anymore at a high level anyway.
Baker, Beal, Ballantine, Love and Haley will all be either CB, Nickel CB. Love can also play safety.
Edge, LB and FS is what we need to be adding.
I'm leaning more and more to this level of thinking. I would also add a safety/slot corner is now one of most critical spots to find a solution because of the impact the TE and/or slot WR create in the middle of the field.
Are you thinking of Mike Lombardi instead of Matt Lombardo? Unless maybe you know something that makes you think Lombardo has an affinity for Chinese food?
I'm a big fan of Jones. I think he would be a great replacement for Jackrabbit at corner and he can play all over the secondary and play well.
Garrett should be able to weigh in here.
Getting a proven vet cb who is only 27 beats rolling the dice on another young unproven cb like Okudah even though Okudah appears to be the real goods
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Top target is any chinese buffet he drives past, so he's an expert.
Are you thinking of Mike Lombardi instead of Matt Lombardo? Unless maybe you know something that makes you think Lombardo has an affinity for Chinese food?
honestly i have a hard time giving anyone from that dallas team big money. they collectively all underachieved and that defense could not get big stops this year when they needed to.
honestly i have a hard time giving anyone from that dallas team big money. they collectively all underachieved and that defense could not get big stops this year when they needed to.
He was really, really good last year.
53% completion rate against, 395 yards on 64 target in 14 games. He only gave up more than 50 yards in one game.
He's not a turnover guy, he's just a really tight cover guy.
At his age I'm not paying him huge dollars, but for a contender he'd be a great addition.
We'd be lucky if one of them developed. One. Baker might be a player. Beal and Ballentine are not the kind of guys you forego adding talent for.
plus adds a veteran to the secondary.
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and jones has not really stood out to me. he's not a bad player by any stretch but i would not give him big money.
honestly i have a hard time giving anyone from that dallas team big money. they collectively all underachieved and that defense could not get big stops this year when they needed to.
He was really, really good last year.
53% completion rate against, 395 yards on 64 target in 14 games. He only gave up more than 50 yards in one game.
He's not a turnover guy, he's just a really tight cover guy.
At his age I'm not paying him huge dollars, but for a contender he'd be a great addition.
At his age? Hes 27. Hes in his prime. Yeah, i wish they were all 25 but its rare. Hes near the top at his spot, and he plays one of the most valued positions in the league. That, understandably, gets top dollar.
Fwiw Im not necessarily railing to sign Jones. Im just responding to what I see are unrealistic expectations/wants from the FA market, which is bound to turn into bitching and moaning come March/April.
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He's going to want a truckload of money, and we have a ton of corners, and need OL and LB much more. Let's see what our CBs can do.
We'd be lucky if one of them developed. One. Baker might be a player. Beal and Ballentine are not the kind of guys you forego adding talent for.
Exactly. Ballentine, Beal, or Love most certainly won't get in the way of drafting Okudah.
Adding a lockdown CB in the NFL is one of the most dramatic advantages a team can have.
I'm wrong, for some reason I thought he was a few years older. He's definitely got plenty of tread left to be an impact player for 3-4 more years.
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and jones has not really stood out to me. he's not a bad player by any stretch but i would not give him big money.
honestly i have a hard time giving anyone from that dallas team big money. they collectively all underachieved and that defense could not get big stops this year when they needed to.
He was really, really good last year.
53% completion rate against, 395 yards on 64 target in 14 games. He only gave up more than 50 yards in one game.
He's not a turnover guy, he's just a really tight cover guy.
At his age I'm not paying him huge dollars, but for a contender he'd be a great addition.
This right here... the guy was one of the top lock down CBs in the NFL last year and is only 27. Yes we should sign him and be thankful to have him.
Ditto on this. Said the same thing earlier. We have used draft picks on the position, especially last year. Now that they have a year under their belt, let's see who can grow into the role and get better...
Otherwise, just another poor job by DG in acquiring talent.
Quote:
He's going to want a truckload of money, and we have a ton of corners, and need OL and LB much more. Let's see what our CBs can do.
Ditto on this. Said the same thing earlier. We have used draft picks on the position, especially last year. Now that they have a year under their belt, let's see who can grow into the role and get better...
Otherwise, just another poor job by DG in acquiring talent.
Id argue the opposite. Passing on the opportunity to augment the position after adding 1st, 3rd, and 6th the previous year would be a poor job of acquiring talent when one flashed late neither of the other 2 showed any real indication of being able to play at this level.
Rolling into the season with the 3 B's as your top CBs is like playing Russian roulette with 5 in the chamber. This is beginning to remind me of when many folks here were pencilling in Wheeler and Bisnowaty as the bookends of the future.
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In comment 14813536 Joey in VA said:
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Top target is any chinese buffet he drives past, so he's an expert.
Are you thinking of Mike Lombardi instead of Matt Lombardo? Unless maybe you know something that makes you think Lombardo has an affinity for Chinese food?
Yeah you got them mixed up, got it. I find that being an argumentative dick works best when you have your info buttoned up, but maybe that's just my style.
Yeah he's a fat choad.
Now he is what the Giant's need, I am not sure, but at the right price he would be awesome
Did you enjoy watching baker get roasted all over the place?
This.
It’s time to focus resources on the trenches.
Free agent money should be filtered towards good but non-splash signings at LB, Safety, and Center. If somehow OT fits the budget then okay otherwise wait until the draft.
Focus the draft for OL and WR unless the BPA at the time is a lot better than the WR/OL options.
and the position is still so bad that we need to go out and spend top of the market dollar on a CB who doesn't cause turnovers
it's about resource allocation. and this is a TREMENDOUS amount of resources spent one 1 position. and you wonder why there are holes all over this roster
and the position is still so bad that we need to go out and spend top of the market dollar on a CB who doesn't cause turnovers
it's about resource allocation. and this is a TREMENDOUS amount of resources spent one 1 position. and you wonder why there are holes all over this roster
Everyone of those players is a young guy and probable starter going into next season. That's not an egregious amount of resources if it yields 3 or 4 quality starters.
The number of CB's who improved greatly in Years 2 and 3 is high. And it includes some of the guys looked on as really good after that. Guys like Norman and Collins are two prominent examples.
A little digging and you will find that Love was never drafted to be a conventional CB.
So this vast investment in 2 positions is a very late #1 and a #3 in the supplemental draft.
and the position is still so bad that we need to go out and spend top of the market dollar on a CB who doesn't cause turnovers
it's about resource allocation. and this is a TREMENDOUS amount of resources spent one 1 position. and you wonder why there are holes all over this roster
One position? How many players do you think a secondary typically has?