how much faith do you have in Gettleman

Let's see what happens with real coaching. Hal Hunter is a proven Hack.

Part of the reason Gettleman has failed is because he got players the coaching staff wanted. When you look at the defense particularly nobody can convince me there was no input from Bettcher. Same for the O.

So, if this staff is competent and knows what they want then I am cautiously optimistic.

Once upon a time.

He has the ability to do some good work in that regard this offseason. If he doesn’t accomplish that I’ll lose faith in him.

So, for now it’s wait and see.

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Chad Wheeler
Bobby Hart
Ereck Flowers
Adam Bisnowaty
Justin Pugh
John Jerry
Weston Richburg
Brett Jones
Jon Halapio
D.J. Fluker

There is maybe one solid NFL starter in there, Richburg. That is basically it. How long should it take to replace 10 positions? At least 3 years if you hit on every FA and draft. Probably more like 4 years

Keeping a seat warm and cracking jokes at press conferences. That’s it

because he came in here to turn things around and nothing has changed except the players. Same shitty football.

However there is a part of me that feels like the coaching was just terrible, and Shurmur had no idea how to win a football game.

I'm going to have to wait till after this season, lets see what happens. Right now though i'm on the side of having no faith at all. I'm not even sure on Jones yet.

think he drafts pretty well but still annoyed about L williams trade if we cant lock him up at reasonable price
gonna be alot a good players available with that high #3 the idiot gave away.
dumb moves like multiple washed up or crappy veteran FA signings bother me too.
Hope to god someone has his ear if viable trade downs are available to get another pick or 2 and still likely get the player we wanted
d baker trade- not ready to rip it yet, lets see if he becomes a building block in 2020. But probably no need to have traded up for him.

In comment 14814381 uther99 said:

Quote:

Chad Wheeler Bobby Hart Ereck Flowers Adam Bisnowaty Justin Pugh John Jerry Weston Richburg Brett Jones Jon Halapio D.J. Fluker There is maybe one solid NFL starter in there, Richburg. That is basically it. How long should it take to replace 10 positions? At least 3 years if you hit on every FA and draft. Probably more like 4 years

Richburg was promising here, flashed, showed some athleticism and ability. Of course he stays completely healthy at SF.

Now, maybe robbie's right and the new staff will exert a positive influence on him. Certainly, Jason Garrett knows how important it is to have a good offensive line. So, we'll see. Still, it's going to take one hell of an effort on Gettleman's part to make a believer out of me.

Both make a good point but also both make the case against against DG at the same time

1. Draft selection collaboration with coaching staff...

2. Jason Garrett was apart of a draft selection collaboration in Dallas that drafted 3 all pro OL...

So 1. Shurmur and company didnt do enough to help him and 2. Hopefully Garrett can/will

But nothing shown by DG himself that makes you believe he will get it right... right?

Why people are so down on Will Hernandez? The guy played every snap last season, with quite possibly my the worse LT and C combo in the league. Give the guy a break here.

In comment 14814396 Coach Red Beaulieu said:

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In comment 14814381 uther99 said: Quote: Chad Wheeler Bobby Hart Ereck Flowers Adam Bisnowaty Justin Pugh John Jerry Weston Richburg Brett Jones Jon Halapio D.J. Fluker There is maybe one solid NFL starter in there, Richburg. That is basically it. How long should it take to replace 10 positions? At least 3 years if you hit on every FA and draft. Probably more like 4 years Richburg was promising here, flashed, showed some athleticism and ability. Of course he stays completely healthy at SF.

That’s sarcasm, right?

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need to see a lot more before labelling Hernandez a bust.

I have little faith in DG in FA. More in the draft, but his refusal to trade down seems to mirror that of the rest of the Giants organization. I hope they will be more open to it this year.

and the high frequency of roster errors, Gettleman is clearly one of the worst GMs in the NFL right now.

Further, as mentioned, the lines are/were supposedly DG's "strength". And that has been an enormous disappointment.

So unless you just refuse to acknowledge his record, and think DG has really been a victim of circumstance, I don't really know how anyone can rationally have much faith at all...

even a 200 hitter can knock a home run

In comment 14814410 Steve in ATL said:

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That says alot.

with the help of Marc Ross got us into this mess. Now we finally have cap space and know one yelling in his ear about signing the next Cardinal free agent and see what happens.

If we’re not 7-9 or better, you can’t keep him employed.

To none, and less for John Mara. I do not believe in what they are doing because this so called great system holds nobody accountable, and one after another drop and the person who change the system refuses to as we sink to the worst team in the nfl. They are so pathetic that they fucked up making believe they used analytics, why do you think we hired such a young head coach, the Leonard Williams situation tells you how stupid they are. We have to pray Joe Judge can save the franchise from the two morons, Gettleman and Mara, that is a lot to ask, to wrestle power 2 old idiots entrenched in thier ways and right even after 9 humiliating wins in 3 years. I better see something this off season or they don't get a dime from me.

A front facing member with declining influence relative to some pretty forceful personalities.

Think he barely skated through Mara's last round of decisions and got his wings clipped.

My understanding is that Judge and staff is frightfully organized, non stop many hours six days a week, all facts and on top of everything that moves. Jump shift to keep up.

Based on stuff, I think folks tend to think he has more power than he now does.

In comment 14814381 uther99 said:

Quote:

Chad Wheeler Bobby Hart Ereck Flowers Adam Bisnowaty Justin Pugh John Jerry Weston Richburg Brett Jones Jon Halapio D.J. Fluker There is maybe one solid NFL starter in there, Richburg. That is basically it. How long should it take to replace 10 positions? At least 3 years if you hit on every FA and draft. Probably more like 4 years

What actually are you arguing? This is all the more reason he should have used more than 1 pick on OL in the past two years. ....oh wait, he used a 7th rounder last year too.

Meanwhile he used 6 picks on DBs last year, nearly half our total.

Or maybe it's because he had a solid hand in building up the great Giant offensive lines in the mid-2000's and a decent one in Carolina.

I have faith that this will be the year he puts it all together. I think he has two pieces in Hernandez and Zietler, who will both benefit even more with a competent Center in between them.

If he can score a big time Tackle in the first 2 rounds of the draft, I think we will see an above-average Giants OL for the first time in about a decade.

Make no mistake though, this is absolutely a "make or break" year for Getty and rebuilding this OL. He started from scratch in 2017. This is his final chance IMO.

There are few great ones and probably a few bad, or inexperienced ones but all in all not much difference between the lot. I do think there are plenty of bad coaches and shaky owners. This isn’t a veiled or unveiled defense of DG it’s just how I feel. If I felt differently I’d be riding DG as much as anyone. I don’t want to defend anyone if they fail here or if they need to be replaced. I just want to win. DG doesn’t keep me up at night. The man has been running football teams for decades. He’s capable even if he is imperfect.

I’ve seen too many legendary or good GMs lose a lot of games and for long stretches of time. We’ve seen this right here with the giants.

In the end the proof is in the pudding. A GM needs to find good players more than the competition does. I think DG can do that.

liked your post

I cannot get my head around the Leonard Williams trade. The Jets were not going to resign him. If all Gettleman gave up was a 5th pick, I think we would have overpaid. How the Jets GM, a first year GM, obtained a 3rd from a clearly bad team going nowhere plus another pick is beyond me for a prospective free agent. This is the kind of move an experienced GM should pull off on a new guy, not the other way around. No matter what else Gettleman does going forward, this ranks as one of the dumbest moves in the history of the team and thats whether or not Williams signs

and I think he’ll listen to the staff’s thoughts on players, primarily Judge, Garrett and Colombo.

a situation with a lot cap space (pending the Williams signing) and decisions.

another realm. I trust DG but I want to see it on the field. I really think that PS really couldn’t identify football talent nor could his assistants. We need to see how DG and the new coaching staff evaluate and choose the roster.

On the surface it seems that DG’s evaluation of Barkley, Jones, Hernandez, Slayton, etc are not shabby. Will await further evidence on his choice of DBs . I think he’s done much better on DL than OL, and lb’ers are ?.

We all loved George Young but sometimes forget that he spent first round picks on Thomas Lewis, Tyrone Wheatley and Cedric Jones in consecutive drafts from 94-96. Not very good.

Gettleman hasn’t been perfect but I think he does draft pretty well. I am surprised he hasn’t drafted more OL.

That should change this coming draft.

in the draft when it comes to the OL.

I hope he spends wisely in FA. If he goes out there and overspends on a handful of players we are going to be right back to where we are now maybe after a mediocre season.

.

he's going to fuck this team for years to come this offseason

In comment 14814368 robbieballs2003 said:

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Part of the reason Gettleman has failed is because he got players the coaching staff wanted. When you look at the defense particularly nobody can convince me there was no input from Bettcher. Same for the O. So, if this staff is competent and knows what they want then I am cautiously optimistic.

No input from Bettcher? Probably not. But the guys that are obvious Bettcher guys were not expensive in terms of resources, and the team massively underinvested on defense. There's no way for Gettleman to escape blame for that disaster of a D.

At the same time, in Bettcher's defense - the only FA acquisition of Gettleman's tenure that panned out was Markus Golden, so I guess that means without Bettcher he's batting zero in FA.

In comment 14814455 Rjanyg said:

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We all loved George Young but sometimes forget that he spent first round picks on Thomas Lewis, Tyrone Wheatley and Cedric Jones in consecutive drafts from 94-96. Not very good.

Young definitely lost his fastball in the '90s, especially when the cap model was implemented.

But GY was one of the best GMs in football in the '80s. So I believe that ends up trumping the last third of his career...

in his two years here.

And this is not based on team performance because he just simply inherited an awful team. However, it is based on him not realizing that fact and not actively restructuring the team in more appropriate fashion and timeline with his questionable moves from the get-go.

Examples of which include, but are not limited to, keeping Eli Manning in place; the free agent disaster class of 2018; lack of positional awareness in drafting in 2018; not actually fixing the O-line; the continuing special usage of extra draft picks versus gathering them; and last but not least...the ridiculous Leonard Williams deal.

If you want to add in whatever role he played in the last coaching staff hirings and his arrogant showings in front of the media, then I think he actually does reach train-wreck status.

His "Hail Mary" is Daniel Jones. If Jones becomes the guy then a lot of the above can be forgiven. If not, then he made his own bed.

I most looked forward to Gettleman improving with the Giants. He got a lot of OL talent, particularly late in the draft, with Carolina.

Hes gutted a rotten team and can now start rebuilding

A thread strictly devoted to the bashing of DG... Have at it dw...and the usual other douchebags...

Way too soon to close the book on these two players.

You're giving grades when the mid terms aren't even in.

In comment 14814489 jcn56 said:

Quote:

In comment 14814368 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: Part of the reason Gettleman has failed is because he got players the coaching staff wanted. When you look at the defense particularly nobody can convince me there was no input from Bettcher. Same for the O. So, if this staff is competent and knows what they want then I am cautiously optimistic. No input from Bettcher? Probably not. But the guys that are obvious Bettcher guys were not expensive in terms of resources, and the team massively underinvested on defense. There's no way for Gettleman to escape blame for that disaster of a D. At the same time, in Bettcher's defense - the only FA acquisition of Gettleman's tenure that panned out was Markus Golden, so I guess that means without Bettcher he's batting zero in FA.

I hate cherry picking. The point of the post was that even though Gettleman has been very poor in FA (no argument from me there), was that more on him or this coaching staff? Yes, ultimately it falls in him. What I am saying is that as a coach I would love working with a GM that gets me players I want. And if you look at the amount of FAs that were brought in that had connections to our coaching staff it was overwhelming.

So, again, this falls in Gettleman because that is his job but why has he failed so far? That is the more intriguing question. Is it because he doesn't know how to evaluate talent or is it because he gave the coaches what they wanted? I personally think it is more toward the second. The reason I believe that is twofold. One, he has done well in the drafts where the coaches didn't have prior relationships with the majority of players and, two, he was in charge of veteran personnel or whatever it was called when we signed McKenzie, Plaxico, and Pierce all in the same offseason. I do believe he has an eye for talent. Now, that was a long time ago. I get it. What I am ultimately getting at is that we know this is a collaborative process so I am hoping this coaching staff is way more competent than the last one where they can all work together and watch it blossom into something great. It still needs to be accomplished though so we will see but I have a much better feeling about it this time around.

I am definitely more hesitant on the defensive side of the ball than the offensive side.

In comment 14814514 Torrag said:

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Way too soon to close the book on these two players. You're giving grades when the mid terms aren't even in.

Re: Baker... wasn't meant as a knock on him but I was pointing out how well the rookie OL (Risner and Jenkins) performed in year 1. Either could have been had at por spot in round 2 if DG didnt trade up. Baker maybe great but besides that, can he fix this OL?

None.

God awful LW trade. He can fix this imo by finding a qb hungry team like miami, Carolina or LA and trading down to recoup draft capital that he essentially flushed down the crapper

bottom 3rd of the league talent-wise and it's almost all his guys. So, not a lot.

In comment 14814392 Payasdaddy said:

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35% confidence level is a good number for me too

he problem with tackles is that you pretty much have to draft them. The good ones go quick and we know what happens when you reach for them.