By Pigskin Paul Guillemette who notes:
"My Mock is based primarily on how I have prospects ranked, and what I think teams should be looking for to bolster their roster talent."
Interesting choice for the Giants at #4. A really good player, but I doubt more than 5% of BBIers would make this choice right now!
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Chase, Okudah and do a couple of swaps with Dolphins and Chargers, if possible....and pick up Simmons or the OTs.....
I would also like to see them take an OT or a defensive playmaker, but if they view Jeudy as being a dominant WR1 they could pull the trigger. Don’t see that happening though.
Now Free agency can change what they draft.. but those are the thing that I see they need more than anything.. The WR position is very deep. They can get one later in the draft..
This.
Hard to do mock drafts without knowing who we get in FA.
Example: what if DG goes nuts and signs 3 OL FAs? are we drafting an OL @4? Prob not... etc.
defense defense defense
There's a half dozen or more of them that won't go in rounds 1-3.
Look at the drop off in OT quality after the first 3-4 guys are gone.
Drafting WRs and TEs in rounds 1-3 repeatedly and OL in rounds 4 and later, until the Giants' pipeline of OL talent was bereft, was Reese's largest mistake. James Brewer, Mitch Petrus, Brandon Mosely... Those mid-late round OL never turned into even a dung pile of talent.
Gotta address that when the talent is there and our draft slot is high.
Why would drafting Jeudy be any different without fixing the line?
Need comes into play when two player have roughly equal value, need factors in. So hopefully our sakes, they have one of the OTs or Defensive players rated similarly to Jeudy.
Jeudy is 6'1" 192. ODB is 6'0" 193. Their stats are virtually identical. And before people attribute Jeudy's success to Tua, consider these facts: 1) Tua's QBR was literally halved without Jeudy on the field; and 2) after Tua went down, Jeudy didn't miss a beat. Jeudy was the player that made that offense go, not Tua.
Sure, if you can get a guy like Tyron Smith at 4 (or ODB), you go for the OT. But reaching for a position gets you a guy like Cedric Jones or Erik Flowers. Yes, Eli needed a better OL in his prime years, but how much better was Eli when ODB was on the field? Does the team get better by reaching for a mediocre OT or picking an absolute stud WR? Our pass catchers got literally the least separation of any team in the league. Jeudy will solve that problem immediately.
Its not so stupid an idea if they can first pull off good additions to the OL.
Among other roster construction benefits, more dynamic passing threats would create opportunity for a good power back instead of overspending on Barkley.
Or,
Since OBJ level talent was most often double teamed, the idea of taking a defenses Safety and a CB away might be pretty valuable if a smart coach and an accurate passer can combine with a mismatch pass catching RB
Its not the worst idea ever floated
This first round seems off in general.
That said, I think WR at #4 is a small percentage play.
Like I said awhile back, not a great draft to pick #4 given our current roster construction.
This is why I hope they go several 2nd tier FA instead of 1-2 splash FA
Jeudy is 6'1" 192. ODB is 6'0" 193. Their stats are virtually identical. And before people attribute Jeudy's success to Tua, consider these facts: 1) Tua's QBR was literally halved without Jeudy on the field; and 2) after Tua went down, Jeudy didn't miss a beat. Jeudy was the player that made that offense go, not Tua.
Sure, if you can get a guy like Tyron Smith at 4 (or ODB), you go for the OT. But reaching for a position gets you a guy like Cedric Jones or Erik Flowers. Yes, Eli needed a better OL in his prime years, but how much better was Eli when ODB was on the field? Does the team get better by reaching for a mediocre OT or picking an absolute stud WR? Our pass catchers got literally the least separation of any team in the league. Jeudy will solve that problem immediately.
I'm sorry but I respectfully disagree. This is the type of thinking that has predominated for the last 7 years and the results have been progressively worse. I believe you have to do more systems analysis not just an isolated player X brings these talents which are in need. I think you have to ask do we have the necessary foundations in place that would allow us to utilize those talents to the fullest.
Its like doing military analysis. Pakistan acquires modern T-90 tanks from Russia. On paper, that should lead to an exponential increase in Pakistan's military capabilities vis-a-vis India. However, you have to ask other important questions to assess their real impact. Do they have the training to utilize this new technology? Do they have the resources and maintenance capabilities to sustain them? How do they fit into Pakistani military doctrine?, What capabilities does India have to counter these advantages?
Football is no different. I think Retrogiant is right. I think the pick will probably end up being an OT. Probably either Wirfs or Wills. Wirfs because of the Iowa pedigree and his flexibility or Wills because of the Saban connection.
Like I said awhile back, not a great draft to pick #4 given our current roster construction.
Yep. That's why we all had the sorta sinking feeling winning a couple of meaningless games toward end of season. Not good.
Slayton was a 5th round WR. Not say that Slayton is Jeudy, but he's an example of not having to spend a 1st for a productive WR, particularly in this draft.
No doubt the biggest factor that has crippled the Giants for what has seemed like forever is the terrible OL. The mistake was made holding on to that 2004-12 crew far too long and they all seemed to break down at around the same time. This is has been the biggest factor in not being competitive for so many years now imo.
We have Solder (33), Zeitler (30 next year), Hernandez and ?'s at C and RT.
When I look at this I hope they draft OL, OL and OL.
Looking at the landscape of the draft today and the changes/evolution of the game there are many more WR's that will continue to enter the draft of quality. Used to be in the 80's teams would reach for that rare speed guy. They are being developed starting at a much earlier age and many more are playing the position at all levels. Interestingly, this has made it harder to find quality OL.
Normally I am a BPA but for the Giants I would sacrifice a little for the OL otherwise the non-competitive football continues. Eagles, Redskins and the Cowboys are all going to have strong fronts.
This is why I hope they go several 2nd tier FA instead of 1-2 splash FA
With the way that the Draft is after FA begins, this is the absolutely best way to go about things. Fill out your roster as much as possible so you don't pigeon hole yourself come draft time.
WR at #4 would be fine if NYG project Jeudy to be the next coming of Larry Fitzgerald. Otherwise a team with plenty of needs like the Giants should draft with available supply in mind and this draft has plenty of talent at WR that you can get later.
Its not so stupid an idea if they can first pull off good additions to the OL.
Among other roster construction benefits, more dynamic passing threats would create opportunity for a good power back instead of overspending on Barkley.
Or,
Since OBJ level talent was most often double teamed, the idea of taking a defenses Safety and a CB away might be pretty valuable if a smart coach and an accurate passer can combine with a mismatch pass catching RB
Its not the worst idea ever floated
The Giants aren't going to get two starting-caliber OT's in free agency. If they're lucky, they might be able to sign one, say, Conklin to play RT. They're still going to have to draft at least one - a good one - to eventually replace Solder (assuming he sticks around for another year).
They might be able to sign a free agent Center capable of starting, a step up from Pio and Pulley, but if it's an older vet on a deal similar to Pulley's, then I hope they look to draft a decent C/OG prospect, too.
What they should do in free agency is look to shore up some holes on defense. Cut Ogletree and Bethea - sign a ILB and FS to replace them. I might consider signing a UFA CB, but only after the Williams situation was settled. Signed, tagged, whatever. May miss out on the top-tier UFA CB's, but that's the breaks. So, maybe you take a flier on a kid like Artie Burns.
A WR who is a true difference- ONLY if they get a center and RT in FA.
(Id add a blitz or rush capable LB and a vet DB as well)
Then they have to fill out the OL development pipeline in the mid or late draft
If all that falls into place then a great WR or a great CB may make sense
I don't think they will do this nor am I advocating it. Im just saying if they do the rest of the job via FA second tier (and maybe Conklin) its not the worlds stupidest idea.
We shall see
Fix the OL, or at least get an all-Pro defender at a position other than DT. NOTHING ELSE MAKES ANY SENSE.
Trade down and get down and pick up a hard-nosed possession receiver like Laviska Shenault. Where this draft is draft is deepest is in offensive linemen - Wiils, Thomas, Wirfs, Becton, Wilson, Biadasz, Cushenberry, Niang, Ruiz, Runyan ....
This draft is QB hungry with the Dolphins, Chargers, Panthers ready to do business for "the right guy".
Like I said awhile back, not a great draft to pick #4 given our current roster construction.
If Burrow and the two OSU Defenders go in the top 3, Tua is sitting there at #4, and teams will be flailing over each other to move up ahead of the Dolphins to get him (unless the medicals come back poorly). It is actually the perfect spot for us, particularly if you are looking to move down.
The thinking of we NEED to draft this position at #4 is precisely what ruins teams. If the OT and WR are equally rated, you go with the OT. But if you rate Jeudy a 95 and the best OT an 80, you don't reach for the 80 because you need a tackle. That is not roster construction that will get this team better, and it's how you end up with guys like Erik Flowers.
They are Young/Okudah/Simmons/Brown.
Jeremiah- #4
Colin GBN- #5 overall
PFF- #4
I'm in the minority in thinking if we don't retain LW or sign another DL on the market that Brown could and should be in play at #4. The unit of Dex/Tomlinson(contract year)/Hill isn't good enough.
In 1990 Steven Baker and Mark Ingram
and of course Dave "look at that little Meggett go."
Fairly representative, ranks the top twenty ...
WRs - Lamb #8, Jeudy #11, Ruggs #17
OL - Wills #9, Thomas #10, Wirfs #13, Becton #16
At the top of the board you must get a game-breaker, else you better parlay that value into two or three solid players.
Jeudy is 6'1" 192. ODB is 6'0" 193. Their stats are virtually identical. And before people attribute Jeudy's success to Tua, consider these facts: 1) Tua's QBR was literally halved without Jeudy on the field; and 2) after Tua went down, Jeudy didn't miss a beat. Jeudy was the player that made that offense go, not Tua.
Sure, if you can get a guy like Tyron Smith at 4 (or ODB), you go for the OT. But reaching for a position gets you a guy like Cedric Jones or Erik Flowers. Yes, Eli needed a better OL in his prime years, but how much better was Eli when ODB was on the field? Does the team get better by reaching for a mediocre OT or picking an absolute stud WR? Our pass catchers got literally the least separation of any team in the league. Jeudy will solve that problem immediately.
You make a huge unforced error comparing the OTs available at 4 on a part with Eric Flowers.
Nobody who has examined their tape makes that comparison, and I mean nobody.
So essentially you are making shit up out of your ass to pretend to have "facts" that justify your position.
3 OTS in this draft will go in the top 10-15 picks, maybe 4. Flowers was not graded by most as a first round pick, at all.
Everyone is giving Thomas, Wirfs and Wills top 15 grades at least. It's not a huge stretch to take one of them at 4...
Good times.
In my opinion, Brown is the 3rd best player in this draft behind the Ohio State kids. And, I think he’d be the most talented player along our DL if we were to draft him. But therein lies the issue. Our DL is too crowded and he’d be redundant. For me, it’s Okudah, Willis, or pray somebody wants to come up for a QB.
They are Young/Okudah/Simmons/Brown.
There are at least four. Brown is in the discussion for sure. We don't need him, but you can't watch an Auburn game this year and not be blown away by the guy. And Kinlaw is getting a lot of traction post Senior Bowl.
Simmons is such a polarizing prospect that I can live with keeping him out of the "elite' pool...
But the bottom line is there are more than the two from OSU.
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No problem, Simmons and Brown aren't elite prospects, imo.
In my opinion, Brown is the 3rd best player in this draft behind the Ohio State kids. And, I think he’d be the most talented player along our DL if we were to draft him. But therein lies the issue. Our DL is too crowded and he’d be redundant. For me, it’s Okudah, Willis, or pray somebody wants to come up for a QB.
Derrick Brown is an excellent player. He's strong as hell, has a non-stop motor and consistently plays on the other side of LOS.
If he's not an elite prospect at DT then tell me who the hell is?
Young coach, young team, that needs a lot help. The draft is rich in good players in positions of need; OL, WRs, defense ...
IMO, there's only two legit 1A types- Burrow & Young, several 1B (top 10) and a cornucopia of 2nd tier, even into the second round (which is unusual)
If we can get one mid 1st round, and two top 50s, that's a big win.
Like I said awhile back, not a great draft to pick #4 given our current roster construction.
I'm in the minority in thinking if we don't retain LW or sign another DL on the market that Brown could and should be in play at #4. The unit of Dex/Tomlinson(contract year)/Hill isn't good enough.
Brown seems like a Gettleman pick. He is a beast.
Oh the fallout on BBI that we gave up 2 picks to rent Leo Williams and then draft a DT with the 4th pick.
who has been around here for a Looong time and who has occasionally contributed pieces for the site. But, I cannot see that happening ..
Linebacker, defensive end, edge rusher. Any one is fine with me.
Indeed, I wrote on an earlier thread that nothing drives me battier than when I hear from people saying that the Giants can’t afford to do this or that in the draft ‘because we have too many holes to fill!” As if the Chiefs are Super Bowl champs because they have the fewest roster weak spots of any team in the league. In fact, the best teams in the league are by and large the teams with the most dynamic playmakers that make the most dynamic plays. I can understand why fans in particular get so focused on fixing holes. They are desperate for the team to get better and what sounds like the quickest way to get better: plug the biggest leak. And certainly teams will follow that path at times. However, the bigger questions teams ask themselves especially when it comes to early draft picks are things such as which player makes us harder team to play against; which player is going to keep opposing coaches up at night.
And viewed in that context, I could see where if the Giants were to think offense with their first round pick this coming April, that they end up be looking at the WRs rather than the OTs. Last year, for example, the Giants had no one who scared opposing defenses deep so the other guys were consistently bringing 9-10 guys into the box fixing to stop #26 and just daring the Giants to beat them over the top. Slayton did come on late, but add another legit big-play threat and you would start to force opponents to play their safeties much deeper, which in turn would open up the underneath zones for guys like Shepard, Tate and Engram, not to mention almost by definition give Saquon some space as opponents just aren't going to be able to bring so many guys to the LOS. And if they do, hammer them over the top. This is not advocating that the Giants go the WR route – and this year’s draft features a very deep WR class so there will be other options at the position - but I suspect it is something they’ll give a whole lot more thought to than your average fan in the street.
Of all of the chances to be competitively superior, the 4th pick of the draft is it.
A depth seeking second tier multiple player FA and using the other 9 picks plus UFDA for depth when combined with a real tilt the field in some aspect difference maker at the 4th pick is the right balance to move forward.
imo
Until this team gets the Oline in better shape, particularly at Tackle, defenses will not worry that much about the long ball. Adding another WR is important but in now way more critical than getting the line fixed.
Thanks, looking forward to your annual draft contributions. BTW your site should start including short profiles on say the Top 50 prospects for those of the guys that don't watch CFB.