'The results have been all over the map: The Ogletree trade was a huge mistake and the Williams trade remains a huge head-scratcher, while the Beckham, Vernon and Harrison deals look better over time. The jury is still out on most of these deals, but no one can deny that Gettleman is bold when it comes to trades involving big names. We’ll find out in the coming weeks if Gettleman plans to continue his wheeling and dealing ways.'
The Ogletree trade...still shaking my head over that one. And obviously the Williams trade was controversial, to state the obvious. I still don't get the logic of making that deal, but se la vie.
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ugh.
This is a results business type of job for a GM. Please let's stop with the excuses.
Agreed. There are plenty of moves to criticize Gettleman for but Ogletree isn't really high on the list. It was obvious it was a stop-gap move hoping to get another year or two out of a guy who was productive in the past.
But he sounds like the Cult of Gettleman at the end by giving Gettleman credit for at least being bold.
Can you imagine at his annual review with Mara - "Hey, Dave. Those moves didn't yield great results or more wins, but they were bold! And so that's good..."
;)
We gave up a 3rd or whatever it was. Get over it.
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The 4th (John Myers) is no longer on the Rams and the 6th in 2 seasons as run for 83 yards (John Kelly). So we gave up nothing for Ogletree other than to assume his contract.
Which contract itself contributed to his horrid cap management which contributed to how we were so uncompetitive. Solder and Ogletree are his big ticket disasters.
But c’est la vie to all you DG apologists.
I love how some of you turn this shit into black and white and NO middle ground. How many fucking times do the apologists like me have to say that we are well aware that DG hasn't been perfect here but we like the young talent he's brought in? It's like the only way some of you can win an argument is to twist shit around. Cool...you win? Enjoy.
Yet DG is still here. So..enjoy that too. And if and when the Giants win again with DG's young players you can reconcile that, hopefully.
If you’re rebuilding, the JPP, Vernon, Snacks and Apple trades make all the sense in the world.
Even the OBJ trade, although IMO that’s a separate evaluation, selling high on a star who’s a diva, before the off field distractions outweigh his infield performance. I will always say that was a win for DG and the Giants.
If you’re trying to win, you trade for guys like Ogletree and Williams as final pieces.
The combo of both types of trades is what’s weird.
To borrow from Mr. Miyagi, you rebuild yes, or you rebuild no. You rebuild ‘guess so’, squish like grape.
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The 4th (John Myers) is no longer on the Rams and the 6th in 2 seasons as run for 83 yards (John Kelly). So we gave up nothing for Ogletree other than to assume his contract.
Which contract itself contributed to his horrid cap management which contributed to how we were so uncompetitive. Solder and Ogletree are his big ticket disasters.
But c’est la vie to all you DG apologists.
wee see again the narrative attempted to eb changed,. Ut was a stupid move for a rebuilding team so you hear this nonsense about "stop gap" and "everyone liked it" -- you could get a cheap stop-gap in Remmers. "everyone liked it" is a downright lie. Our "Stop gap" just got paid about $10m this past year.
Just amazing the excuses made for DG. Players don't perform and he gets little blame. I've rarely come across such complete homerism by some.
These types of trades are made by a lot of teams. Not just ones as a final piece, but ones trying to get better.
- Miami acquiring Talib
- Arizona getting Drake
- Dallas getting Bennett
- Rams getting Corbett
- Raiders getting Zay Jones
- Jets getting Thomas
Teams have holes and they try to plug them a number of ways. It isn't always to make an immediate championship drive.
Either some of you guys have a really poor view of what the rest of the league is doing or you're just intentionally simple to regurgitate certain comments over and over again
Couldn’t agree more, thanks for saying this
If you want to say were paying him to much and he doesn't belong on 3rd and long I would agree.
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If you’re trying to win, you trade for guys like Ogletree and Williams as final pieces.
These types of trades are made by a lot of teams. Not just ones as a final piece, but ones trying to get better.
- Miami acquiring Talib
- Arizona getting Drake
- Dallas getting Bennett
- Rams getting Corbett
- Raiders getting Zay Jones
- Jets getting Thomas
Teams have holes and they try to plug them a number of ways. It isn't always to make an immediate championship drive.
Either some of you guys have a really poor view of what the rest of the league is doing or you're just intentionally simple to regurgitate certain comments over and over again
Amazingly, many of the people here that assail the LW trade and drafting of SB, love the AZ deal for Drake!
His "good year" in 2019 amounted to a handful of fluke interceptions.
His "good year" in 2019 amounted to a handful of fluke interceptions.
Doesn't that happen both ways?? People who rail against management hated the Apple and Jenkins trades. Why? Simply because they were made and were certain to be poor moves
But I didn't expect you to point that out...
My minor criticism is converting the 2018 roster bonus and kicking some of the can.
Here and now, he's still a pretty pricey player who's been pedestrian in 2 staright systems. I wouldn't bet it's a coincidence.
His "good year" in 2019 amounted to a handful of fluke interceptions.
I really liked Ogletree at Georgia.
So despite some drop off with the Rams, I thought we had a need that Ogletree could fill. And maybe a change of scenery, he could be rejuvenated. So I liked the gamble at the time...
And he was expensive to get when you add picks plus his very high salary. But again, when your roster sucks this is what desperate GMs do and Gettleman was that guy.
And Ogletree didn't fall off a cliff, he just continued to get consistently worse at both run defense and coverage (sans a couple of actually fabulous interceptions in 2018 somehow).
Recall his first preseason game for Giants, and I think a Cleveland tight end went racing right by him for a TD, and I think everybody got a little nervous as to what we bought.
Turns out he was the typical Giant LB...kind of bad.
His "good year" in 2019 amounted to a handful of fluke interceptions.
+1(000000000000)
Spot on.
His "good year" in 2019 amounted to a handful of fluke interceptions.
He was a 4-3 LB who didn’t fit and sucked when they switched to a 3-4. And DG in his infinite wisdom traded for him to play him in a 3-4 where he proceeded to have a huge contract and suck. It was an AWFUL trade. And for those of you saying who the Rams used those picks on is irrelevant. Giants may have drafted different players or used those picks to trade up
My minor criticism is converting the 2018 roster bonus and kicking some of the can.
Here and now, he's still a pretty pricey player who's been pedestrian in 2 staright systems. I wouldn't bet it's a coincidence.
But it wasn’t about returning to form. It was about scheme fit. And he doesn’t fit in the scheme
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I'll give any GM a lot of slack when projecting wrong on a player. He bet on Ogletree returning to form, and it just didn't happen.
My minor criticism is converting the 2018 roster bonus and kicking some of the can.
Here and now, he's still a pretty pricey player who's been pedestrian in 2 staright systems. I wouldn't bet it's a coincidence.
But it wasn’t about returning to form. It was about scheme fit. And he doesn’t fit in the scheme
It was a fine gamble to see if he did in my view. When it was clear he didn't, I'd have preferred he was a cut for 2019.
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I'll give any GM a lot of slack when projecting wrong on a player. He bet on Ogletree returning to form, and it just didn't happen.
My minor criticism is converting the 2018 roster bonus and kicking some of the can.
Here and now, he's still a pretty pricey player who's been pedestrian in 2 staright systems. I wouldn't bet it's a coincidence.
But it wasn’t about returning to form. It was about scheme fit. And he doesn’t fit in the scheme
It was a stupid decision. Throwing away draft picks while going after expensive mediocrity when you are in the start of a rebuild is moronic. Just hope this year "the computer guys" could also help the decision making process.
Agreed. I generally consider myself to be a glass half empty person in nearly all aspects of life, but on this board I often feel like I am the most optimistic person ever lol. Why does Gettleman take so much crap on here? Reese was one of the worst GM’s in the league his last several years here and didn’t get take this much heat for most of that time.
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Rams fans knew he was a mediocre player. Rams fans were happy to get his contract off their books. Giants fans liked it without knowing much about the player. In other words, giants fans liked it because they wanted to like it.
His "good year" in 2019 amounted to a handful of fluke interceptions.
He was a 4-3 LB who didn’t fit and sucked when they switched to a 3-4. And DG in his infinite wisdom traded for him to play him in a 3-4 where he proceeded to have a huge contract and suck. It was an AWFUL trade. And for those of you saying who the Rams used those picks on is irrelevant. Giants may have drafted different players or used those picks to trade up
Georgia ran a 3-4 under Grantham while Ogeltree was there. So Ogeltree had experience. And please don't give me the "well, it's different in college football..." It's the SEC, so it's basically one level below the NFL...
Second, the Jets were not going to re-sign Williams. If they got only a 5th round pick, it would have been excessive. The issue is not if Williams is good or not, its that he is a free agent and can be had for money instead of 2 picks, one a premium from a bad team plus the money. Gettleman was robbed by a rookie GM
Second, the Jets were not going to re-sign Williams. If they got only a 5th round pick, it would have been excessive. The issue is not if Williams is good or not, its that he is a free agent and can be had for money instead of 2 picks, one a premium from a bad team plus the money. Gettleman was robbed by a rookie GM
The LW trade laps the Ogeltree deal on the stupidityometer. We were 2-6, couldn't get out of our way, and were essentially out of the playoffs. So those circumstances demanded selling, not buying. And LW is "Mr. Almost"...he almost made the tackle, he almost sacked the QB, he almost caused the fumble, he almost knocked that pass down, etc.
Now we await the salt on the wound...the contract.
My minor criticism is converting the 2018 roster bonus and kicking some of the can.
Here and now, he's still a pretty pricey player who's been pedestrian in 2 staright systems. I wouldn't bet it's a coincidence.
He’s going to be cut with very little dead money.
He bet on Ogletree? Pretty low risk bet. We gave up a mid round pick.
You better be prepared for this offseason. The giants will overpaid yet again. If you want some real defensive veterans to component this defense I suggest you make peace with that.
If they were going to trade to secure him, fine - he was overpriced, but you could say they were betting on the upside. They sent over a 4th rounder.
If you're counting - that's a 3rd and 2 4th rounders, all relatively high picks, for the right to overpay Ogletree and to sign Leonard Williams (how much of a disaster that is will depend on what they expend to keep him).
Biggest problem with the former GM was his inability to hit on later round picks. Well, here's a 3rd and 2 4ths shot into the ether. Lauletta is already off the roster, so Gettleman's track record is shaping up to be worse in that regard.
He cost two draft picks and was earning a salary that made him around the 5th-7th highest in the entire league at Inside LB. Meanwhile his performance for the Giants the past two years has been well below that level.
He was added because we were desperate at LB and our new GM went shopping when he was desperate. And the only thing it got us was overpaid poor play, and we are still desperate for better LB play.
wake up.
You better be prepared for this offseason. The giants will overpaid yet again. If you want some real defensive veterans to component this defense I suggest you make peace with that.
You post these sentiments ad naseum, but virtually no one is worried about the actual amount of money. It’s the relative value in a fixed system — and the Giants have been all kinds of bad at that resource allocation.
The team has lost double digit games in 5 of the last 6 seasons. Who is the last UFA the Giants have signed who had 2 good seasons?
It’s amazing you can’t make peace with the fact the Giants are actually pretty bad at this. It’s one factor in why they’ve sucked for so long.
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doesnt miss on trades? The Giants fans who have a massive hate boner for Gettleman need to look at what other gm's are doing around the league. Yes the Giants suck as an organization and have for a long time but that has very little to do with Gettlman and the decisions he has made.
Agreed. I generally consider myself to be a glass half empty person in nearly all aspects of life, but on this board I often feel like I am the most optimistic person ever lol. Why does Gettleman take so much crap on here? Reese was one of the worst GM’s in the league his last several years here and didn’t get take this much heat for most of that time.
People who were wrong about the Odell Trade and wrong about the Daniel Jones pick and wrong about Landon Collinsstill hate him for those moves. Pigheaded posters who refuse to change their opinion on the man who made those decisions, even when he was shown to have made the right moves in hindsight.
There is so much wrong with that it’s not even worth trying to rip it apart.
Let’s just keep drafting and never sign a vet worth shit, since, we suck anyway. Let’s just hold out for the perfect, cheap and under 26 player to hit FA. Because we all know those guys are always available. And if we suck again, it was a mistake. Total nonsense lol
There is so much wrong with that it’s not even worth trying to rip it apart.
Let’s just keep drafting and never sign a vet worth shit, since, we suck anyway. Let’s just hold out for the perfect, cheap and under 26 player to hit FA. Because we all know those guys are always available. And if we suck again, it was a mistake. Total nonsense lol
The point is to acquire veteran players who you believe will play well through most if not all the contract you give them.
I think Ogltree had all the makings of a good acquisition — pretty young, demonstrated success, and a flexible contract. There wasn’t anything alarming about that acquisition. Just turns out he wasn’t that good, and the Rams were right.
The Giants have sucked at acquiring UFAs at both the tail end of the Reese years and the beginning of the Gettleman years. That doesn’t mean stop, it means get better.
Reserve the very high and/or top dollar amounts for young, healthy, productive vets, and graduate the dollars and risk down the further players are from that criteria.
Then, you are limited by..
1. What players are available via free agency or trade
2. What it will cost to sign or trade for them
3. Whether that player actually wants to play for the Giants. This is a huge factor that is often overlooked. You never know who we targeted and who said no.
You end up with having to roll the dice on some guys because there is not much else available.
It is like walking into Dunkin Donuts and all they have is jelly and plain. Meanwhile, you have a car load of hungry kids and the next rest stop is 30 miles away.
and combine it with trades for guys like Ogletree, who were already starting to show signs of decline and were obvious cut/trade candidates for their teams, you lose all credibility when you try to support a losing team going nowhere trading for them.
It's not just MMQB'ing the Giants - these are moves losing teams don't make. And for good reason.
The reason that just about every football pundit bashed the Giants for the Leonard Williams trade isn't that the media has some broad bias against NY or Gettleman, it was because it was a short-sighted move that offered the team little value in the short term and locked them in to compete with other FA suitors or tag him. Only the worst homers decided that this was a defensible move and that the rest of the world had a grudge.
What Monday morning QBing are you seeing on this thread? Seems like most folks are saying most of the trades Gettleman made came from sound logic, and just didn't work out.
He was in Carolina when the Giants should have been planning ahead and Reese was loading us up with bloated contracts full of dead money signing bonuses.
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and make a few peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for the car ride.
He was in Carolina when the Giants should have been planning ahead and Reese was loading us up with bloated contracts full of dead money signing bonuses.
Man if there is one thing I am completely sick and tired of is people still blaming Reese.
Yes, we all get it Reese SUCKED.
There will be what 4 signigicant players (Engram, Tomlinson, Shepard (who DG resigned), Rojas) left from the Reese era once the season starts. People are still giving kudos to DG for using 2019 to clear cap space, while totally ignoring the fact that 70% of the cap space that he cleared was on contracts of his own making.
DG got the Reese excuse in year 1. Not so much in year 2. Year 3, there is ZERO blame to be laid on Reese anymore. This is DG's team, not Reese's.
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I think Ogltree had all the makings of a good acquisition — pretty young, demonstrated success, and a flexible contract. There wasn’t anything alarming about that acquisition.
Sure there was. A good, well-coached defense wanted to get rid of him shortly after paying him a boatload of money.
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In comment 14816145 djm said:
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I think Ogltree had all the makings of a good acquisition — pretty young, demonstrated success, and a flexible contract. There wasn’t anything alarming about that acquisition.
Sure there was. A good, well-coached defense wanted to get rid of him shortly after paying him a boatload of money.
It was evident that anyone who thought Ogeltree "had all the makings . . . " was wrong.
Sure there was. A good, well-coached defense wanted to get rid of him shortly after paying him a boatload of money.
I'm making the distinction between risk and alarm. There was definitely risk.
The risk was insured by the Rams eating the dead money and him being on what amounted to a series of one year contracts.
As I posted above, spreading the 2018 roster bonus out wasn't wise. For a mid and late round pick, it was worth a year try out and contract control if he returned to form.
The most interesting question was should have he been retained for 2019 at that cost.