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If Burrow, Young, Okudah go 1,2,3, do you take Brown at 4?

Jim in Forest Hills : 2/22/2020 9:50 am
Derrick Brown is currently the 2nd highest rated prospect on nfl.com's draft tracker at 7.16 behind only Young. This does offer some flexibility as you could now let Williams walk and use that money elsewhere OR resign Williams and have a 49ers like potential dominant DL.

Assuming he is the last blue chip, do you double down there? Or do you look to a Simmons (red chip over blue?).

Let's say DG cannot find a trade partner, do you go Brown and not look back?
NFL.com writeup - ( New Window )
Simmons or OT  
TheMick7 : 2/22/2020 9:55 am : link
.
I usually favor BPA..  
KDavies : 2/22/2020 9:59 am : link
But DT is such a position of depth with them spending a 1st last year on Lawrence, Tomlinson, Williams if they resign him. FA is before draft, so they won’t have the luxury of drafting Brown and letting Williams go at that point. I would go Simmons, best OT, or WR if they can’t do a deal down
I honestly don’t give a fuck if he’s Warren sapp  
bluetothegrave : 2/22/2020 10:03 am : link
Absolutely positively not! If that happens I’d trade down if possible and be thrilled with whichever stud you get at 8.
We can not under any circumstance draft another non edge rushing defensive lineman. The game is about speed more than ever. More importantly with Lawrence , Tomlinson , hill , Leonard Williams. We have 0 need for another devensive lineman. We would be in a great position to trade down at that point. With someone probably badly wanting tua or herbert.
If those 3 are gone  
ddfan : 2/22/2020 10:03 am : link
I trade down. Doesnt seem to be much difference between 4 and 20 with any number of players to fill those spots. We really need to get our 3rd round pick back. As for Williams, eh. I will take him or leave him. Just hope we dont overpay for him.
Nope  
Nine-Tails : 2/22/2020 10:05 am : link
Probably a remote thrower imo. Nothing to do with the player, just that we've allocated too many assets on the dline already and just doesn't make sense to go Brown.
NO  
mavric : 2/22/2020 10:10 am : link
The only real strength we even have is the defensive line. Defensive backfields and offensive lines are in shambles. Investing in more defensive linemen is like using the bulk of your money putting new carpet in a house when the plumbing and electrical no longer works.
In that situation  
robbieballs2003 : 2/22/2020 10:12 am : link
A trade has to be the best option and I don't say for my benefit. I am saying that because Miami is up next and someone will be dying to jump over them to get THEIR QB. I say their QB because this isn't fantasy football. Teams don't say there are two QBs left in Tua and Herbert so we will get one of them like you do in fantasy football. Teams have a conviction on the person over the position so they draft players not positions. If there guy is still available there will be trade opportunities aplenty.
RE: Simmons or OT  
LauderdaleMatty : 2/22/2020 10:14 am : link
In comment 14816070 TheMick7 said:
Quote:
.


This. ESpecially since Williams will probably be re-signed. God thst was tucking stupid trade. I assume without Eli DG was t as worried about cap space but I honestly think for about half to 2/3s Tomlinson is a better value

Shades of letting LinJo go and then having to over pay Snacks. We don’t need 12 defensive tackles
We have to many  
Fred-in-Florida : 2/22/2020 10:14 am : link
other needs than another DL.

I hope we can trade down and get a couple of 1st's. Quit a few Tackles out there and we can get one of those and another position of need.
Nope  
TheWalrus : 2/22/2020 10:15 am : link
We have invested so much at that position I don't think we can justify it. Especially if we keep Williams. Don't forget that B.J. Hill looked pretty good until he got benched for Williams.

In the last few years we used a 2nd rounder on Tomlinson, a third on Hill, a first on Lawrence (which was the blue chip piece of the OBJ trade), and a third (plus a fourth or fifth next year) on Leonard Williams. The amount of draft capital we have used on a position that isn't a premier position in our defensive front plus it being one of the only positions we have depth at would make a Brown pick a very bad one.

If Tua is on the board at 4, someone will trade up. If not, take Simmons or an OT.
I would but Dave won’t  
The_Boss : 2/22/2020 10:15 am : link
Especially after he resigns LW to about $12-15M/year and after he selected BJ Hill and Dexter Lawrence in consecutive drafts. He’s the 3rd best player in this draft. In this scenario, I’m hoping: A) his phones are ringing off the hook and B) he’s willing to actually answer them. If he can, trade down and take Willis and accumulate more picks or just suck it up and “reach” a bit and take him at 4.
Quite not Quit  
Fred-in-Florida : 2/22/2020 10:15 am : link
needed a E
Or a trade is fine as Robbie says  
LauderdaleMatty : 2/22/2020 10:17 am : link
Fine w that too. But Another DT makes so little sense.
I’m not taking a stand at 4 regardless  
superspynyg : 2/22/2020 10:20 am : link
Especially if we resign Williams. We have other needs.
What about this?  
robbieballs2003 : 2/22/2020 10:20 am : link
What if the Giants did what the Eagles did with one of their QBs? What if we sign William's and put his guaranteed money into roster bonus money and then trade him? Only the signing bonus gets accelerated and we can minimize that. We have William's locked up and because he's locked up maybe we get more value for a trade than the third+ we gave up and then draft Brown? Haha. I know it is not happening but it is possible.
Talk to me after the UFA and trade season  
djm : 2/22/2020 10:21 am : link
What if the giants trade thomlinson? Then you’d have a huge hole at DE.

If Brown is warren sapp and you pass on him you’re a fool. The DL is solid right now but we don’t know how the giants view thomlinson long term here and he’s not exactly a house hold name to begin with. He’s a solid player close to UFA. He’s not a game changer.

I do think it is highly possible that there are more trades coming this offseason. Thomlinson was not a DG pick. Neither was shepard or engram. We have an entirely new staff here now. Anything is possible.
Brown is a great prospect indeed. But as mentioned above  
LBH15 : 2/22/2020 10:21 am : link
the investments already made at DT (plus LW's deal very soon) make it counterproductive to keep putting resources in one area.

Gettleman needs to be prepared for this scenario though and have a damn good idea what he can get from a trade-down strategy and who he would target in that later spot versus just staying and going BPA. Hopefully one of the teams that becomes a bit desperate for a QB takes him off the hook by providing him a deal he can't refuse.

In any event, it would be typical NYG fortune to have to bypass a potentially great DT like Derrick Brown because of the manner this roster has been recently constructed.
robbie  
ChicagoMarty : 2/22/2020 10:29 am : link
I like your thinking
'do you take Brown at 4?'  
Torrag : 2/22/2020 10:55 am : link
It depends on what we do with the DL in free agency. If we sign an LW, Chris Jones or other top DL then the answer is no. If we don't then he would definitely be the pick if I couldn't trade down.

This idea we already have 'too much' invested in the DL is ridiculous. We currently have a mid-round 1st(Dex), a 2nd in his walk year(Dalvin) and a 3rd who played poorly last season(Hill). The rest of the DL roster are JAGS.

In comparison the 49ers have how many premium round picks invested in the unit? 4 1sts and a 3rd including the #2 overall Bosa. They run a four man front vs our 3 but the difference in assets allocated to the front is stark.

So stop with the we've spent too much Draft capital on the unit to justify adding another. It isn't remotely true.
RE: I honestly don’t give a fuck if he’s Warren sapp  
giantstock : 2/22/2020 10:57 am : link
In comment 14816075 bluetothegrave said:
Quote:
Absolutely positively not! If that happens I’d trade down if possible and be thrilled with whichever stud you get at 8.
We can not under any circumstance draft another non edge rushing defensive lineman. The game is about speed more than ever. More importantly with Lawrence , Tomlinson , hill , Leonard Williams. We have 0 need for another devensive lineman. We would be in a great position to trade down at that point. With someone probably badly wanting tua or herbert.


If he is "Warren Sapp" - you take him and run. I'm big on taking the OT whether it be 4th or trade down. BUTTTTTTTT Sapp is an all-time great. C'mon. You go to a 4-3 defense and you'd have a pass rush and are able to stop the run because at least you are going to get an OLB in FA. I'd like to think he'd be a very good one with the available cap space.

Though extremely extremely extremely extremely doubtful he is "Warren Sapp."
If those are top 3, then the Giants should be able to make  
ZogZerg : 2/22/2020 11:03 am : link
a nice trade. Someone will move for QB #2.
RE: 'do you take Brown at 4?'  
KDavies : 2/22/2020 11:22 am : link
In comment 14816123 Torrag said:
Quote:
It depends on what we do with the DL in free agency. If we sign an LW, Chris Jones or other top DL then the answer is no. If we don't then he would definitely be the pick if I couldn't trade down.

This idea we already have 'too much' invested in the DL is ridiculous. We currently have a mid-round 1st(Dex), a 2nd in his walk year(Dalvin) and a 3rd who played poorly last season(Hill). The rest of the DL roster are JAGS.

In comparison the 49ers have how many premium round picks invested in the unit? 4 1sts and a 3rd including the #2 overall Bosa. They run a four man front vs our 3 but the difference in assets allocated to the front is stark.

So stop with the we've spent too much Draft capital on the unit to justify adding another. It isn't remotely true.


It’s not that they have too much in the DL. Too much in DTs. I’d be all for a Bosa or a Chase Young
Brown, I can't see him being that high on NYG Board  
edavisiii : 2/22/2020 11:44 am : link
Their board, which will be done the week before is what matters. Gettleman knows DL and OL. Is he perfect? No one is! Its my opinion but I don't see Brown that high. I really don't care about how this draft service and that service rates them. Its all bullshit! Why do I feel that way? He is not an elite pass rusher. He is very good but not great. I still like Simmons, he had some of the best big games in big spots this year. Chase Young played great against Wisconsin and PSU but Simmons was better in the playoffs.Plus, here is also a chance that one of the 4 Offensive tackles get rated high if they display elite athleticism.
Very difficult to draft Brown at #4 UNLESS  
81_Great_Dane : 2/22/2020 12:04 pm : link
you trade one of the other D linemen. Assuming Williams is signed, he stays. Lawrence stays. But Tomlinson might be trade bait in that situation.

However if Brown, Tua and Herbert are all on the board at #4 I expect there would be a trade partner among the next five picks: Miami, Las Vegas, Carolina, Arizona (for Brown) and Jacksonville. Miami might stand pat and figure their guy will fall to them. But the Raiders and Panthers might be tempted to move up.

I think the Giants should be in position to get an overpay for the chance to draft a top QB prospect, but honestly if the Chargers offered #6 and their third to move, I'd probably take that offer. Chances are Miami and LAC aren't going to take guys the Giants want anyway.
Trade down or address another need  
Red Dog : 2/22/2020 12:19 pm : link
Specifically OL.

Trade down with one of the QB hungrey teams  
George from PA : 2/22/2020 1:10 pm : link
And draft Simmons or OT
Only  
PaulN : 2/22/2020 2:29 pm : link
An idiot would not consider it, at #4 you land the great player, position means nothing other then QB.
But  
PaulN : 2/22/2020 2:30 pm : link
I also love Simmons, who to take between them two, I like Simmons better, but if the Giants like Brown better, then go get him.
Trade down  
Steve in ATL : 2/22/2020 2:38 pm : link
.
Likely resigning Williams  
MeadowlandsMike : 2/22/2020 2:59 pm : link
So DT will be one of our few strengths. Brown is probably the worst direction we could go if we stayed at 4.
The UF OC put him in the same class as Fletcher Cox  
Jim from Katonah : 2/22/2020 3:01 pm : link
On the allocation of resources argument, I think the Niners invested 4 first rounders in their D-line ... if he grades out as the best player, heck yeah I’d take him.
I'm  
AcidTest : 2/22/2020 3:28 pm : link
not sure. I'd be more inclined to do so obviously if we don't resign LW, but I might anyway even if we do.
If that is the order, someone should trade a boatload of picks to the  
Ivan15 : 2/22/2020 3:33 pm : link
Giants for the 4 spot.

This is why nothing will happen until draft day, unless the Bengals trade down.
I'm a huge huge fan of the player and if he were an inside pass rushin  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/22/2020 3:35 pm : link
force like Sapp or darnold it's a no brainier, but he's not. Reminds me of Chris Canty a lot though and think he's a very safe pick, but we def don't have a need for what he brings. Just not enough upside at 4. Pass rushers, defensive backs, linebackers are what this defense needs.

In that scenario a trade down would be a legit value option, someone would move up for QB and pay to get their choice.
Might not be a bad idea  
santacruzom : 2/22/2020 5:52 pm : link
You see a lot of "If the 9'ers could reverse their fortunes so quickly, so can we!" talk around here. Well, take a look at how many high picks the 9ers used towards acquiring players on the line.

There is no guarantee that Williams (assuming we sign him) will be a plus player, or that Tomlinson will be resigned, or that Lawrence will build upon a promising rookie year.
RE: I'm a huge huge fan of the player and if he were an inside pass rushin  
MeadowlandsMike : 2/22/2020 6:00 pm : link
In comment 14816285 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
force like Sapp or darnold it's a no brainier, but he's not. Reminds me of Chris Canty a lot though and think he's a very safe pick, but we def don't have a need for what he brings. Just not enough upside at 4. Pass rushers, defensive backs, linebackers are what this defense needs.

In that scenario a trade down would be a legit value option, someone would move up for QB and pay to get their choice.


Hes not JJ Watt, Suh, Sapp or Darnold. More or less would be redundant to what we already have.

Much better ways to go at 4 or even 6 or 7.
Good God I hope not  
sb from NYT Forum : 2/22/2020 7:25 pm : link
That would be a 3rd and 5th in 2018, a 1st in 2019, and a 1st and a 3rd (LW trade) in 2020 all on DT.

Plus that doesn’t consider Tomlinson.
RE: Good God I hope not  
Jim from Katonah : 2/22/2020 10:51 pm : link
In comment 14816414 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
That would be a 3rd and 5th in 2018, a 1st in 2019, and a 1st and a 3rd (LW trade) in 2020 all on DT.

Plus that doesn’t consider Tomlinson.


Sounds like a lot until you consider ... how much did Dallas invest in their revered OL? And the Niners in their DL? It takes a lot of resources ....
OT looks like a very good group - I want one of them  
PatersonPlank : 2/22/2020 11:20 pm : link
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We’d be fucking sick  
AcesUp : 2/22/2020 11:34 pm : link
vs the Power I. That’s something to consider for sure.
RE: RE: Good God I hope not  
sb from NYT Forum : 2/23/2020 10:57 am : link
In comment 14816509 Jim from Katonah said:
Quote:
In comment 14816414 sb from NYT Forum said:


Quote:


That would be a 3rd and 5th in 2018, a 1st in 2019, and a 1st and a 3rd (LW trade) in 2020 all on DT.

Plus that doesn’t consider Tomlinson.



Sounds like a lot until you consider ... how much did Dallas invest in their revered OL? And the Niners in their DL? It takes a lot of resources ....


True, but I'm just talking about DT, not DL as a whole.
He looks like an amazing player.  
giantBCP : 2/23/2020 10:59 am : link
I'd have no problem taking him at 4.
Why waste yet another year of Barkley's career...  
GFAN52 : 2/23/2020 11:52 am : link
and Jones' health with an inferior OL. OL has to be upgraded in this draft.
I dont see him as the #2 best player  
Rudy5757 : 2/24/2020 3:16 pm : link
But if he ranks on the Giants board as head and shoulders above other players you have to take him. that would mean he is better than anyone else we have at the position and the goal is to get better at every position.

If he is just marginally better than another player at a position of need you take the need. I just dont see him as that player so I wouldnt take him.
Depends on Williams  
Thegratefulhead : 2/24/2020 4:38 pm : link
I would rather draft Brown, who I think will be better than Williams and use that 15 million on other FAs.
Easy to hedge bets about  
bigbluehoya : 2/24/2020 4:40 pm : link
"have to find a partner" and etc, but it would seemingly be madness not to find some worthwhile trade down with a team lusting for Tua in that scenario.
Trade down  
JonC : 2/24/2020 4:41 pm : link
.
Trade dow with a QB hungry team  
Steve in ATL : 2/24/2020 4:43 pm : link
.
Another thing to consider is  
JonC : 2/24/2020 4:46 pm : link
SF got Bosa on the Edge, and their DL profile is pure 3-4, they're drafting tall, LONG, explosive athletes. Brown to me is a lot like Dexter and we need Edge and DE talent similar to Buckner/Armstead more than another DT. Wouldn't be excited about paying second pro contracts to two expensive DTs either.
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