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Kiper and McShay drop the gloves over Jones

John In CO : 2/22/2020 2:14 pm
Ill give McShay credit for one thing....he is sticking by his guys regarding Jones. Hated him prior to the draft, and nothing Jones has done since has apparently changed his mind.
Kiper-McShay Fight - ( New Window )
McShay has a very tough time  
Matt G : 2/22/2020 2:18 pm : link
When prospects prove him wrong... Massive ego... Not a great look
When you're proven wrong man up...  
Torrag : 2/22/2020 2:19 pm : link
and move on.
PFF  
Toth029 : 2/22/2020 2:22 pm : link
Same way.

When your head is as big as a hot air balloon, there isn't much more to say.

So many forms of media are resistant to admitting they're wrong.
RE: PFF  
robbieballs2003 : 2/22/2020 2:23 pm : link
In comment 14816240 Toth029 said:
Quote:
Same way.

When your head is as big as a hot air balloon, there isn't much more to say.

So many forms of media people are resistant to admitting they're wrong.
LMAO mcshay  
BleedBlue : 2/22/2020 2:24 pm : link
im sorry but he looks like a fucking jerkoff here.

kiper has it so right shockingly.

"if you cant say after this season watching jones that he is better than you thought"

thats the absolute truth. even if you dont think jones is a franchise guy, how can you argue he wasnt better than you thought? mcshay literally hated jones coming out, felt he wasnt even a first rounder...

jones may or may not be the guy but for a rookie, he played VERY well
Jones is the guy  
mdthedream : 2/22/2020 2:30 pm : link
and is a stud.
Arguing based on feelings is pointless.  
robbieballs2003 : 2/22/2020 2:32 pm : link
With guys that are in this line of work they should have a legit grading system to back up their "opinions" but of course they don't. Do you know how simple it would be to say, "Well, the reason I am not a fan of Jones right now is because he graded out as a ____. The turnovers are really concerning as are some of the decisions he has made. He has to improve tremendously in those areas for me to come over to the other side on him." But, of course that never happens. At least Kiper stated that he had many injuries at the WR position in his argument.
I have to assume that McShay must be a haskins guy then?  
ZogZerg : 2/22/2020 2:34 pm : link
He must actually think Haskins had a better Rookie year then Jones. He's really looking silly here.
I believe in Jones too  
Jim in Forest Hills : 2/22/2020 2:40 pm : link
but McShay is not on some fake ground here. Kid had what 23 turnovers? Giants went 2-9 with him? He had some good, he had some bad. I think he'll get better but let's see it. Let's see some wins.
RE: Arguing based on feelings is pointless.  
Nine-Tails : 2/22/2020 2:44 pm : link
In comment 14816252 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
With guys that are in this line of work they should have a legit grading system to back up their "opinions" but of course they don't. Do you know how simple it would be to say, "Well, the reason I am not a fan of Jones right now is because he graded out as a ____. The turnovers are really concerning as are some of the decisions he has made. He has to improve tremendously in those areas for me to come over to the other side on him." But, of course that never happens. At least Kiper stated that he had many injuries at the WR position in his argument.


Mcshay sounds even worse when a couple weeks ago, says he thinks Darnold could be a top 5 qb. Lmfao at that
McDouche is insufferable  
Manning10 : 2/22/2020 2:50 pm : link
How dare the Giants make him look like an Ass and select Jones at 6, Haskins was the better Prospect (sic).

You know whats even funnier , 2 days after the Draft these guys give out Draft Grades , giving teams A based on players they hyped!
RE: I have to assume that McShay must be a haskins guy then?  
shyster : 2/22/2020 2:52 pm : link
In comment 14816253 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
He must actually think Haskins had a better Rookie year then Jones. He's really looking silly here.


That's an odd assumption.

This is what McShay said when asked about Haskins in December:

Quote:
McShay said the obvious about Dwayne Haskins that owner Dan Snyder, for sure, loves him. When Patrick asked if the Redskins were sold on the rookie quarterback, McShay hesitated and said "it depends on who you're asking? The owner?"

When the two discuss specifically coaching the Redskins - McShay lets loose.

"I'd rather coach 31 other teams, let's put it that way," he says at the end of the clip.


Back at draft time, McShay gave Haskins a good review for his pro day, which McShay attended, but then correctly predicted in April that Haskins could fall out of the top ten.

si.com - ( New Window )
The NFL Rookie QB record for TDs is 27  
twostepgiants : 2/22/2020 2:54 pm : link
Daniel Jones threw 24 in just 12 starts.

On top of that he had a few NFL Rookie QB records

Along the way, Jones became the only rookie quarterback in NFL history to throw for 350 passing yards with five touchdowns and zero interceptions in a single game, per ESPN Stats and Information.

In the process, Jones joined Fran Tarkenton and Deshaun Watson as the only three quarterbacks in NFL history to finish with four touchdown passes or more in three individual games during their rookie seasons, according to ESPN Stats and Information.

McShay should be able to at least admit he was “better than he thought”

The Giants did get a perfect replacement for Eli in Jones  
Mike from Ohio : 2/22/2020 3:19 pm : link
Much like Eli, Jones - at least in his rookie year - gave both sides of the argument ammunition. He threw for a lot of yards and touchdowns with a poor line and weak receivers showing that he can not only manage the game, but be a playmaker. Same thing with some of his scrambles.

But he also went 3-9 and turned the ball over 23 times. Now you can argue (like everyone here did with Eli) how much of any/all of that was his doing, but those are simply facts on the resume.

Eli could be maddening by somehow mixing brilliance with some head scratching mistakes, which is why he has been viewed so differently by different people. After year 1, Jones is doing the same. How much the turnovers, and in particular the fumbles, get fixed will help clarify the argument.
RE: I believe in Jones too  
Gman11 : 2/22/2020 3:33 pm : link
In comment 14816255 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
but McShay is not on some fake ground here. Kid had what 23 turnovers? Giants went 2-9 with him? He had some good, he had some bad. I think he'll get better but let's see it. Let's see some wins.


Let's see some defense. Let's see some blocking on offense. Oh right, the QB plays against the other team all by himself.
People were still griping over Eli  
David B. : 2/22/2020 3:33 pm : link
After 2 superbowls and like the 7th all time passing numbers.

Jones will clean up the fumbles, get better, and McShay and others will still never at the crow that's on the plate in front of them.
EAT  
David B. : 2/22/2020 3:34 pm : link
the crow
McShay sounds  
Josh in the City : 2/22/2020 4:10 pm : link
like a jackass but so do all of you in this thread acting like Jones is a surefire franchise QB. Jones was very up and very down and while he did have some big time throws, he also had a ridiculous number of turnovers. Some will chalk up those turnovers (particularly the fumbles) as flukes while others will say it’s his inability to sense pressure in the pocket. We don’t yet know which is true. The point is that nobody should be standing on a pedestal acting like Jones is a surefire franchise QB or guaranteed bust. Right now he’s still a huge question mark who only won 25% of his games as a rookie. His sophomore season should help answer these questions.
RE: McShay sounds  
Now Mike in MD : 2/22/2020 4:15 pm : link
In comment 14816299 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
like a jackass but so do all of you in this thread acting like Jones is a surefire franchise QB. Jones was very up and very down and while he did have some big time throws, he also had a ridiculous number of turnovers. Some will chalk up those turnovers (particularly the fumbles) as flukes while others will say it’s his inability to sense pressure in the pocket. We don’t yet know which is true. The point is that nobody should be standing on a pedestal acting like Jones is a surefire franchise QB or guaranteed bust. Right now he’s still a huge question mark who only won 25% of his games as a rookie. His sophomore season should help answer these questions.


Or maybe some think this is what the vast vast majority of tookie QBs do. Name a rookie QB who did not have turnover problems
RE: McShay sounds  
Now Mike in MD : 2/22/2020 4:16 pm : link
In comment 14816299 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
like a jackass but so do all of you in this thread acting like Jones is a surefire franchise QB. Jones was very up and very down and while he did have some big time throws, he also had a ridiculous number of turnovers. Some will chalk up those turnovers (particularly the fumbles) as flukes while others will say it’s his inability to sense pressure in the pocket. We don’t yet know which is true. The point is that nobody should be standing on a pedestal acting like Jones is a surefire franchise QB or guaranteed bust. Right now he’s still a huge question mark who only won 25% of his games as a rookie. His sophomore season should help answer these questions.


Or maybe some think this is what the vast vast majority of tookie QBs do. Name a rookie QB who did not have turnover problems
wow  
mdc1 : 2/22/2020 4:17 pm : link
one season is not enough to proclaim anything with Jones. QBs sitting in the current draft right now that are championship caliber. And yes there is a difference between a QB that has done it and one that has not.
RE: McShay sounds  
WillVAB : 2/22/2020 4:43 pm : link
In comment 14816299 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
like a jackass but so do all of you in this thread acting like Jones is a surefire franchise QB. Jones was very up and very down and while he did have some big time throws, he also had a ridiculous number of turnovers. Some will chalk up those turnovers (particularly the fumbles) as flukes while others will say it’s his inability to sense pressure in the pocket. We don’t yet know which is true. The point is that nobody should be standing on a pedestal acting like Jones is a surefire franchise QB or guaranteed bust. Right now he’s still a huge question mark who only won 25% of his games as a rookie. His sophomore season should help answer these questions.


Jones threw for over 3K yards and had a 2:1 TD/INT ratio as a rookie behind a bad OL. He looked extremely accurate and showed some mobility. There’s a lot of promise.

Of course that doesn’t mean he’s going to be a stud for the next 10+ years, but he deserves more credit than McShay is willing to give him.

McShay didn’t shit all over Baker Mayfield after his rookie year. Jones had a comparable campaign. This is just doubling and tripling down on his shit Jones take while it’s still relatively reasonable to doubt him.
McShay  
Joey in VA : 2/22/2020 4:45 pm : link
Said that Ryan Finley was better than Jones as a prospect last year, and he was a total shit show in Cincy who didnd't even convert 50% of his pass attempts, he was at 47.4% and went 0-3 and was yanked. Yeah he's better than Jones.
RE: The NFL Rookie QB record for TDs is 27  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 2/22/2020 4:56 pm : link
In comment 14816260 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
Daniel Jones threw 24 in just 12 starts.

On top of that he had a few NFL Rookie QB records

Along the way, Jones became the only rookie quarterback in NFL history to throw for 350 passing yards with five touchdowns and zero interceptions in a single game, per ESPN Stats and Information.

In the process, Jones joined Fran Tarkenton and Deshaun Watson as the only three quarterbacks in NFL history to finish with four touchdown passes or more in three individual games during their rookie seasons, according to ESPN Stats and Information.

McShay should be able to at least admit he was “better than he thought”

Statistically the best rookie season stats since Marino. What's up with McDouche?
RE: RE: I believe in Jones too  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/22/2020 5:24 pm : link
In comment 14816279 Gman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 14816255 Jim in Forest Hills said:


Quote:


but McShay is not on some fake ground here. Kid had what 23 turnovers? Giants went 2-9 with him? He had some good, he had some bad. I think he'll get better but let's see it. Let's see some wins.



Let's see some defense. Let's see some blocking on offense. Oh right, the QB plays against the other team all by himself.


Hes a turnover machine until proven otherwise. He didnt just have some problems with turnovers. He had a historically poor season of giving the ball away. It was enough to completely smear what should have been an excellent rookie year. If the turnovers are even mediocre instead of terrible, the world looks at Jones's year very differently.
RE: The NFL Rookie QB record for TDs is 27  
eric2425ny : 2/22/2020 5:25 pm : link
In comment 14816260 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
Daniel Jones threw 24 in just 12 starts.

On top of that he had a few NFL Rookie QB records

Along the way, Jones became the only rookie quarterback in NFL history to throw for 350 passing yards with five touchdowns and zero interceptions in a single game, per ESPN Stats and Information.

In the process, Jones joined Fran Tarkenton and Deshaun Watson as the only three quarterbacks in NFL history to finish with four touchdown passes or more in three individual games during their rookie seasons, according to ESPN Stats and Information.

McShay should be able to at least admit he was “better than he thought”


Good post
I had a lot of fun watching Jones last year and am excited about him,  
81_Great_Dane : 2/22/2020 6:39 pm : link
but he still has a long way to go to be a top-10 QB in the NFL, never mind "elite" (however that's defined).

He's got to cut way down on the fumbles for sure. We assume he will do that, but there's no guarantee of that.

He's got to speed up his reads and decision-making, and get rid of the ball sooner. This is normal for rookies. However IIRC Sy's knock on him coming out of Duke was that he didn't see a quick mind. So again, while we would expect the game to slow down for DJ, there's no guarantee of that, either.

I could be wrong about this,I think he needs to throw downfield more, and more effectively. I thought that he threw a ton of dink and dunk balls, right around the line of scrimmage, many of them actually behind the line of scrimmage. So while he has a nice completion percentage. But his yards per attempt number is poor, among the worst in the league. (Oddly, when I sort QB stats, he keeps coming up close to Tom Brady. That would be great except and a lot of people said Brady looked done in 2019.) My impression was that the Giants' lack of a vertical passing game was letting defenses cheat toward the LOS and that hurt the running game as well. But again, I could be wrong.
McShay doesn’t study players...  
Chris in Philly : 2/22/2020 10:23 pm : link
He has his opinions scripted for him so he can counter Kiper. Screw that guy.
That segment  
AcesUp : 2/22/2020 10:38 pm : link
Had a First Take-ish feel to it, I don’t think either take was 100% sincere. I’m sure McShay is genuinely bearish on Jones but there’s no way he watched all of his tape and has that opinion. Jones can very well flatline and be the next Winston but that was a very promising rookie campaign. The flaws are obvious but the “if he can clean up the turnovers” discussions are being undersold, if he cleans up the turnovers he’ll be one of the best in the league. It’s a big if though, odds are that he always struggles with them to some extent but even if he tempers them, he’ll be a 10 yr+ QB.
Giving it away  
Gruber : 2/23/2020 6:39 am : link
Turnovers will be the make or break of Daniel Jones.
Putting aside that these guys put forth their own agendas  
LBH15 : 2/23/2020 7:26 am : link
on bits like this, why does it matter so much to some of you whether McShay admits DJ showed a lot of good things in year one?

If you don't historically like what he says and respect his opinion then shouldn't this just be thrown under the rug and ignored anyway?
There's plenty of evidence on both sides. Pick a side.  
since1925 : 2/23/2020 9:59 am : link
Side 1: He didn't prove he is a franchise QB.

Side 2: He played in tough circumstances.
As an aside, I  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 2/23/2020 10:29 am : link
don't get the feeling Mel likes Todd all that much.
I can understand misevaluating  
Jint Fan in Buc Land : 2/23/2020 3:18 pm : link
I can't understand watching what DJ did and at least saying he might actually be something
RE: McShay sounds  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/23/2020 5:15 pm : link
In comment 14816299 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
like a jackass but so do all of you in this thread acting like Jones is a surefire franchise QB. Jones was very up and very down and while he did have some big time throws, he also had a ridiculous number of turnovers. Some will chalk up those turnovers (particularly the fumbles) as flukes while others will say it’s his inability to sense pressure in the pocket. We don’t yet know which is true. The point is that nobody should be standing on a pedestal acting like Jones is a surefire franchise QB or guaranteed bust. Right now he’s still a huge question mark who only won 25% of his games as a rookie. His sophomore season should help answer these questions.


Are you still allowed to opine about QB's??
A Dan Jones debate  
ghost718 : 2/23/2020 6:06 pm : link
Leads to McFly doing a little dance

The only way to make this better for McShay I'm afraid  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/23/2020 6:20 pm : link
is if Skip Bayless will chime in and back him up.


/sarcasm
It doesn't matter what either of those numbnuts think anymore  
Heisenberg : 2/24/2020 8:11 am : link
He's the Giants Franchise QB. He'll either be good or he won't. Those two dipshits can suck it either way.
McShay  
RetroJint : 2/24/2020 8:25 am : link
sounds like Mel did when he was relativity young and insecure . Dogmatic though his views might be , Jones has a considerable ways to go to achieve the lauded “Franchise QB” designation .

This is the era of glamour passing stats . Jones was not nearly as good as his shallow scoop numbers would indicate . No need to panic . I’m certainly a supporter . But he needs to improve in quite a few areas of his game . He should . When he does, and McShay doesn’t acknowledge it, he will lose a great measure of credibility in what he does .
These..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/24/2020 8:51 am : link
guys don't lose credibility. They just move onto the next screaming point.

That's how Skip Bayless and Stephen A Smith have made a living.
RE: These..  
figgy2989 : 2/24/2020 8:52 am : link
In comment 14817031 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
guys don't lose credibility. They just move onto the next screaming point.


Kiper has made a career out of it.
RE: RE: McShay sounds  
Josh in the City : 2/24/2020 10:36 am : link
In comment 14816834 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14816299 Josh in the City said:


Quote:


like a jackass but so do all of you in this thread acting like Jones is a surefire franchise QB. Jones was very up and very down and while he did have some big time throws, he also had a ridiculous number of turnovers. Some will chalk up those turnovers (particularly the fumbles) as flukes while others will say it’s his inability to sense pressure in the pocket. We don’t yet know which is true. The point is that nobody should be standing on a pedestal acting like Jones is a surefire franchise QB or guaranteed bust. Right now he’s still a huge question mark who only won 25% of his games as a rookie. His sophomore season should help answer these questions.



Are you still allowed to opine about QB's??


Yes
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