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Comprehensive offseason plan in re: FA & the Draft(long)

ChicagoMarty : 2/22/2020 4:41 pm
Naturally it is very early and everything has to be a projection but spring season hasn't started and the Bulls and the Hawks are not making the playoffs so time for my fantasy offseason Jint rehaul.

Since I take great pleasure in tearing apart everyone else's mocks it is only fair that I put one out there to be attacked.

First, we must deal with FA before getting to the draft. We want to draft into the strength of the draft if we can which I see as offense and fix gaping holes in FA if we can on defense.

I believe that the following holes can be addressed in FA and if it can be satisfactorily accomplished it will provide great flexibility going into the draft.

Keeping with the new coaching staff stated philosophy and dipping a little into some of DG's while mixing in some of mine -- we will be looking for smart, versatile, athletic, tough and hopefully faster players than in the past.

The rebuttable presumption will be made here that the Jints will re-sign Williams DL and Golden ER at a team-friendly price. How much that leaves to address the following is unknown but since this is my fantasy offseason it will be assumed that there will be enough to fulfill my fantasy

FA

1. Center is the yawning, gaping hole on Offense with the Halapio injury. I would spend the necessary money to obtain either of Connor McGovern or Ted Karras. Doing so would allow the C position to be filled with an experienced but still youthful C and provide for a somewhat experienced interior OL to build around. Obtaining a quality C such as McGovern in FA would then allow for the GM to aim high in the draft for a quality OT in an OT rich draft. I also believe Solder will return for one more year at OT given his cap hit.

2. Corner -- I know that multiple draft choices have been invested here but Jackrabbit moved on and he was our best corner. Jints finished 28th overall in the NFL in pass defense and PFF has us at #30 in pass coverage. Spend the necessary $ on procuring Byron Jones to lock down one side of the secondary. Jones can play any position in the secondary in quality fashion as Garrett can attest. Procuring Jones allows us to bypass Okudah in the draft or trade down should another team crave him or one of the QB's. Jones will be pricey however and we have other holes. I probably could be persuaded to spend fewer $ on an up and comer cb e.g. James Bradberry or Kendall Fuller here but only reluctantly and only if it guarantees that we can procure #'s 3 & 4 below

3. Deep safety - Jints absolutely have to cut down on the long passes completed against them. There are several deep safeties available here that can provide the experience and leadership needed in a young secondary and would be much preferable to going with a rookie or inexperienced safety. Devin McCourty is the best of the available albeit a bit long in the tooth. Not far behind him and definitely younger would be Justin Simmons or Anthony Harris. There should be good ROI here.

4. Inside lb or 'Moneybacker' - the need for a pass covering ILB has never been more obvious. Corey Littleton fits the bill perfectly. Joe Schobert would be a reasonable consolation and Nick Kwiatkoska something of a step-down but he does bring tenacity. Combine one of the above with Connelly and a high draft choice e.g. a #2 on Patrick Queen and we have a remodeled lb corps that will provide the much-needed pass coverage in the middle of the field that is so desperately needed.

5. Backup qb - we need a low priced vet qb to back up Jonesie and I am betting that Case Keenum would fit the bill here.

I don't know that there would be any FA money left and it might be unrealistic to think we could bring in such a haul as noted above but consider what would have been accomplished. Pass defense will have been addressed in a major way at every level with a proven experienced vet lb, corner, and safety that can provide leadership to the youngsters already on the team and to those that will be drafted

Draft

I am using rankings provided by NFL Draft Scout and GBN for anyone who is going to nitpick over where the selections are projected.

1. OT - by procuring a starting C and a corner in FA, OT can be pursued aggressively. Since there are arguably four first-round OTs available the GM can be aggressive as he wants with regard to possible trade-down scenarios. Picking up an extra pick in addition to a quality OT here would be ideal and I am opting for that scenario and suggest that obtaining a third-rounder in addition to one of Wills, Wirfs, Becton or Thomas is the play here.

2. ILB or 'Moneybacker' - Patrick Queen ILB speedy pass covering backer. Would team up with Littleton and/or Connelly to really tighten the pass D in the middle of the secondary

3. OL - Logan Stenberg - Nasty OG. Distinguished himself at the Senior Bowl. Has the length to pass protect and the girth and demeanor to dominate inside. I see Stenberg as a versatile OL who can back up either G or OT and might be schooled on C. Think of this guy as a Chris Snee with long arms. We don't know how the coaching staff will size up Nick Gates positionally or Big George Asafo-Adjei talent-wise but an investment in a versatile OG with a nasty streak with our extra third-rounder seems a worthy investment and one that really has not been made much in the past.

3. CB - Lamar Jackson - big and fast. I like having a bigger type db to combat some of the bigger WRs that every team seems to have on their roster now. Enough of these dinky 5'8" slot CB's that usually get picked around the third or fourth round. A good-sized db like Jackson can be moved around the secondary with guys like Jones, Love and Queen that might confuse an opposing qb for a nanosecond or two and provide versatility for the coaching staff to maneuver.

4. ER - Anfernee Jennings - remember one premise here is that we re-signed Golden. Also looking forward to what our coaching staff does with Lorenzo Carter and Oshanes Ximines. We really don't know what type of D the coaching staff will bring to bear. But Anfernee will hold the edge, He is powerfully built and has a history of consistently making tackles for a loss. While he may not have the flashy first step of the better-known pass rushers - he does bring relentlessness and that can be just as valuable. He will replace Kareem Martin in a positive fashion.

5. TE Colby Parkinson - 6'7" Stanford TE. You know he is smart and he has good size. Should be putty in the hands of the new coaching staff to fill in behind Engram and Kaden Smith and compete with Dickerson and Conrad

6. QB Anthony Gordon - we need three QBs in camp to throw to all of our receivers. It remains to be seen if the new coaching staff will go with two or three QBs on the roster. The number one characteristic I look for in prospective QBs is accuracy. Gordon is as accurate as any. He just might have enough talent to develop behind Jones

7. WR Marquez Callaway - strongest position in the draft allows us to wait until the final round to invest. Callaway is a sleeper imo. The number one stat I look for in a WR is YPC. Callaway had the second-highest YPC in the SEC last year by a hair. He only had thirty receptions however which pushed him down. Let me remind everyone that Darius Slayton had the highest YPC in the SEC last year

7. RB - Sewo Olonilua - this guy is built like a tank and can be a short-yardage RB or could even be used as a FB and save a roster spot. Can also catch out of the backfield.

7. WR - Kendrick Roger 6'4" or Dezmon Patmon 6'4" - It would be nice to have a tall wideout to contrast with our other munchkin like WRs. Jones says thanks in advance.

I think with improved coaching the above personnel moves will add much value and the team can be much more competitive in the coming season
I'd sign up for this  
DavidinBMNY : 2/22/2020 5:03 pm : link
In a heartbeat.

Nicely done.

Maybe they should hire you as a consultant.
I enjoy reading your posts  
WillVAB : 2/22/2020 5:25 pm : link
Even though I don’t agree with your general team building philosophy.

Pumping FA dollars in the guys you mentioned will get DG fired in a year or two. Jones, McGovern/Karras/, and Littleton will get way more money than the value they’ll add on the field for the Giants.

Kwiatkowski isn’t a bad option at LB and a cheaper FS isn’t bad either. I can get behind that in FA. The other FA targets need to be edge and OT.

I don’t like Queen’s game at the NFL level. If the Giants go LB early it needs to be Murray, preferably after a trade down where they pick up multiple 1’s. Otherwise the Giants should wait until the later rounds to grab a LB, maybe the kid out of Purdue.

I don’t see Golden signing on the cheap and the Giants shouldn’t give him a big deal. Even if they did sign him cheap the Giants still need at least 1 ER and another to at least groom behind Golden+FA. Waiting that long in the draft with just Golden would be a mistake.

The problem areas with this roster are OL and pass rushers. From a coverage perspective it’s slot corner — not coverage LBs or anything else.

The focus this off-season needs to be fixing the OL and pass rush, not dumping even more money and picks on pass defenders.
Good read. I think we need more done with edge.  
George from PA : 2/22/2020 6:02 pm : link
Not sure we should spend that much in FA....

Agree on general weakness of team....

more needs to be in the draft.....hopefully, a small trade down....still gets us our #1 target and some extra picks in 2nd or 3rd.
Generally a good plan. Regarding free agency, I think Peppers and  
Ira : 2/22/2020 6:07 pm : link
Love will be a good pair of starting safeties. I'd look for a backup free safety and keep Thomas for special teams and to back Peppers.
Ira  
ChicagoMarty : 2/22/2020 6:18 pm : link
Hopefully Peppers and Love will thrive on improved coaching but Peppers played more effectively imo close to the LOS and Love's ability at safety is unknown at this point in time.

We really need a centerfield at Safety. The image of Bethea chasing ten yards behind opposing wr's is indelibly etched in my mind.

There are several deep zone safeties available in FA this year. They shouldn't be inordinately expensive.

I like the idea of investing in a vet safety in FA to combine with our youth at corner.
David BMNY  
ChicagoMarty : 2/22/2020 6:19 pm : link
Thank you
Well Will  
ChicagoMarty : 2/22/2020 6:34 pm : link
This blog wouldn't be worth much if everyone agreed with each other all the time.

I think spending big in FA on ER and OT would be a mistake along the lines of what the Jint front office have done in recent past years.

I really like what the draft offers at OT this year and we need to tap that vein.

ER is a bit of a conundrum in that we really don't know what kind of Defense the new staff is looking to bring other then they want it to be versatile.

The other problem is we really don't know what we have with Lorenzo Carter and Oshanes Ximines at ER given the dismal level of coaching each received.

I thought Golden was workmanlike and consistant and worthy of a reasonable new contract.

As you well know I place a much greater emphasis on pass coverage then pass rush. Pass coverage can be immensely improved through FA this year by procuring young veterans at each level of the secondary.

I want a mix of young bucks and up and coming vets if possible.

Better coverage might result in more sacks and more turnovers

You want consistant coverage on the forty or so pass plays the secondary can expect to have to cover every game.

It is tough for the pass rush to get to the qb in under 2.5 seconds while maintaining contain in case the qb takes off running

I think Queen would be a much better fit at moneybacker then Murray who i see as more of a thumper. Queen is conspicuously faster then Murray who may not be much of an improvement over Ogletree in pass coverage

I envision Littleton and Queen shutting down the TEs in the short to middle zones.

Jones can shut down the primary opposing wideout and lets see how our platoon of young db's handle the secondary receivers flooding the zones
Pass on Golden  
giantstock : 2/22/2020 7:36 pm : link
Why him? Why do you want to go "cheap" by going "bargain-basement" shopping regarding the most important defensive position on the football field?

The defense also needs "impact" players. Stop looking for a deal and focus more on a high impact OLB. I agree - no Clowney but that next level. Higher than Golden.

If you are going to spend a lot of money on FA -- it seems that's what the OP is suggesting-- then don't play around with the most important defensive position on the football field.

Further- Golden is NOT versatile. He does one thing well enough but he isn't elite at it. Get an overall better player at OLB. Don't "Settle."
Everyone seems to be relying on big coaching improvement at all spots.  
Ivan15 : 2/22/2020 7:46 pm : link
Although some positions were clearly affected by poor coaching, not all of the coaches were incompetent. Some of last year’s coached were rehired by Judge and others quickly were hired elsewhere.

Keep that in mind when you are expecting marked improvement in some 2nd and 3rd year players. Some of these players were playing out of position, but others just don’t have the talent to play much better.
How many of the coaches let go  
ChicagoMarty : 2/22/2020 8:19 pm : link
were picked up by other teams?

Not many.

With regard to paying Golden - ER is not the most important position on Defense. It may have been that way 20 years ago but not with the way the game is played now.

You have mobile qb's who can take off running at any time now. Qb's can run the option, spread the D and fire passes in under 2.5 seconds well before any rusher can get close.

Back in the day when the offense predictably ran into the LOS on the first two downs and passed on third down with the statue of a qb dropping back seven steps - well then the pass rusher's role was critical and the pay reflected it.

Now your contemporary ER needs first of all to set and hold the edge. He needs to provide reliable contain for all the sweeps, pitches, reverses and rollouts so prevalent the way offense is played today.

Our new coaching staff really doesn't know what it has with regard to Carter and Ximines. Golden is a reliable pro.

The fastest and most efficient way to improve our pass defense ranking is to improve the pass coverage. I have outlined above what I believe to be an efficient approach in doing so.

Two years ago the NE secondary won the SB by shutting down the passing attack of their opposition without providing much in the way of pass pressure.

That is my model for this offseason's design

I prefer to put the valuable FA $ into improviing the pass coverage at all levels rather than gambling on overpaying some ER like we did with Vernon a couple of years ago

There is no one way to effectively build a winning team. But I think the above approach is the most realistic
I like the effort you put in  
Rjanyg : 2/22/2020 8:59 pm : link
First thing I think about is how you mention the Center position. I really like McGovern and think it’s important to secure a solid vet at the position.

However, Gettleman said at his presser after the season that he was going to go get a pass rusher. I don’t know who but that tells me it is somebody that wasn’t on the team last year. I think they try to RE-sign Williams and go after one of the top edge players in Ngakoue, Clowney, Judon or Fowler.

If we can secure Williams, a FA Center and a top Edge Rusher, we can head to the draft with all options open.
Always enjoy your takes, CM.  
Big Blue '56 : 2/22/2020 9:06 pm : link
I would love Karras here
ChicagoMarty....totally agree and that is why I'd be a big proponent  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/22/2020 9:15 pm : link
of Okudah if he is there. Okudah, Young, or trade down (which will open up because only 1 qb will be off the board by then) to me should be the move.
Hey don't get me wrong  
ChicagoMarty : 2/22/2020 9:20 pm : link
I am not opposed to procuring a standout ER

But there is going to be a lot of competition and that means a bucketful of money.

Would we still be able to buy a top corner, safety and pass covering moneybacker?

I have my doubts

But as a certain President likes to say...

We will see...
I'd  
AcidTest : 2/22/2020 9:41 pm : link
be stunned if we sign Jones after drafting Baker, Beal, Ballentine, and Love. He's going to want a ton of money.

Id prefer not to sign any big name FAs, and instead look for lower priced bargains.

Right now, I'd be very interested in trading down as you note to at least get an extra three. If not, my tentative pick is Wills.
AcidTest  
ChicagoMarty : 2/22/2020 9:50 pm : link
And he would be worth it imo.

We need to replace Jackrabbit and have an experienced corner who can shadow the opposing team's top wr.

If we can afford it and still obtain the other needed FAs as outlined above what difference does it make how much we paid?
RE: AcidTest  
AcidTest : 2/22/2020 10:13 pm : link
In comment 14816473 ChicagoMarty said:
Quote:
And he would be worth it imo.

We need to replace Jackrabbit and have an experienced corner who can shadow the opposing team's top wr.

If we can afford it and still obtain the other needed FAs as outlined above what difference does it make how much we paid?


I wouldn't do it, but I think the debate is moot. Signing Jones would be tantamount to DG at least implicitly admitting that he wasted most of the picks he used on the other corners. That's especially true given how much it would cost to sign Jones. Not going to happen. DG is already on the verge of being fired. Baker is supposed to replace Jenkins as our #1 CB. DG traded three picks to get him. I do expect us to sign a much cheaper veteran CB.

I want to rebuild the team through the draft and low priced FAs. Spending on high priced FAs is generally a mistake, unless perhaps a player at a particular position is what a team needs to legitimately compete for the Super Bowl. We aren't that team.
Your plan involves  
AcesUp : 2/22/2020 10:20 pm : link
Signing the top market guy at 4 positions. It’s still realistic, teams with less cap than us can make that happen...but does that ever work out long term? I assume we’re letting Leonard Williams walk here too?

I’m onboard for Jones as our big ticket target though. I think the CB market is undervalued right now so the 15m/yr+ needed to sign him may actually be a bargain. Signing him takes us off a big value guy in Okudah in the draft, but I’m ok being dialed into the OTs if we’re staying open to a trade down.
RE: How many of the coaches let go  
giantstock : 2/22/2020 10:21 pm : link
In comment 14816450 ChicagoMarty said:
Quote:
were picked up by other teams?

Not many.

With regard to paying Golden - ER is not the most important position on Defense. It may have been that way 20 years ago but not with the way the game is played now.



We can agree to disagree. So to that point I think you are making a huge mistake with paying so much for others and not addressing the pass rusher - ER as much as you should. We can never agree then on priority. Which is fine . . .

good post!!!!!!!!!!
Disagree  
ChicagoMarty : 2/22/2020 10:22 pm : link
DG cluster drafted db's last year because we had dreck in the secondary and it needed to be done.

Jones is in his prime. If we have an opportunity to get him you do it and don't look back. Garrett will confirm his value.

If we don't procure Jones than DG will have to pick up Okudah so we have at least one shut down corner. That will mean we forfeit the possibility of obtaining extra picks on a tradedown and we won't be able to obtain one of the top four OT's in the draft.

That would be a sin imo
Aces  
ChicagoMarty : 2/22/2020 10:28 pm : link
Top corners will be expensive no doubt but Jones is in his prime

Paying a top Moneybacker market value is not analogous to paying a top cb. Different market

The same with paying a top deep safety. Different market

And all of the guys I'm looking at in FA are in their prime with the exception of McCourty.

What I am suggesting we do in FA is doable imo.

Adding in a top notch ER will realistically mean we forfeit our chance at improving ILB and S imo and may mean we can't get Jones at cb
RE: Disagree  
AcidTest : 2/22/2020 10:30 pm : link
In comment 14816484 ChicagoMarty said:
Quote:
DG cluster drafted db's last year because we had dreck in the secondary and it needed to be done.

Jones is in his prime. If we have an opportunity to get him you do it and don't look back. Garrett will confirm his value.

If we don't procure Jones than DG will have to pick up Okudah so we have at least one shut down corner. That will mean we forfeit the possibility of obtaining extra picks on a tradedown and we won't be able to obtain one of the top four OT's in the draft.

That would be a sin imo


Not singing Jones doesn't obligate us to take Okudah.

I still think the most likely scenario is that we stay at #4 and take either Wills or Wirfs, but it's obviously early. DG wants to protect his investment in Jones.

I don't see DG trading down from a top five pick.
RE: Aces  
giantstock : 2/22/2020 10:39 pm : link
In comment 14816489 ChicagoMarty said:
Quote:
Top corners will be expensive no doubt but Jones is in his prime

Paying a top Moneybacker market value is not analogous to paying a top cb. Different market

The same with paying a top deep safety. Different market

And all of the guys I'm looking at in FA are in their prime with the exception of McCourty.

What I am suggesting we do in FA is doable imo.

Adding in a top notch ER will realistically mean we forfeit our chance at improving ILB and S imo and may mean we can't get Jones at cb


I dont agree. The name of the game is the front 7 and the OLINE.

You can get LW, let's just say Judon or Fowler at OLB, Littelton at ILB and McGovern at C.

in DRAFT- Then as you say get that Tackle. - I'll throw a name Wills.

Rds 2, 3 and 4 are for CB and Safety somewhere within there in no order. And the one other pick between at 2 or 3 or 4 is either WR or ILB.

Stay away from the Guard until rd 7 if need be.
Predicting what DG is going to do  
ChicagoMarty : 2/22/2020 10:41 pm : link
is not something i have any desire to do.

There is just no real logic to what he does.

At least with my approach the number one problem area of the Giants which is their pass defense -- will be improved.

It will also allow for DG to pick up a quality OT with their first choice whether he trades down or not.

And that is the beauty of my approach.

The OL gets a fresh infusion of talent at every position.

The lb situation is improved in terms of speed and pass coverage

And most importantly the secondary gets a blend of youth and experience with the infusion of talented FAs and draftees
Your plan is doable  
AcesUp : 2/22/2020 10:49 pm : link
With less cap it’s doable. But is it the right thing to do?

You’ll set the market with McGovern, Littleton, Simmons and Jones. Everything is relative, so that’s all big money. We didn’t give Snacks insane money either but we still shopped that contract after 2 years despite him playing up to it.

I’m 100% onboard with Jones though, I don’t see resetting a depressed CB market at a premium position of need as a bad move. I like McCourty too. He’s older but that will be baked into his contract and he brings a skill set that’s hard to find in the draft. The idea that every free agent needs to be 25 is dumb, most free agents are underperforming on their contracts by the 3rd or 4th year regardless of age.
Baker,  
AcidTest : 2/22/2020 10:50 pm : link
Ballentine, and Love were all rookies. Beal might as well have been. Their inexperience is the main reason we had so many blown coverages. Ballentine and Love were also asked to play new positions. (Ballentine IMO should be left on the outside. I don't think he's a slot corner.)

DG is likely counting on a big improvement from these players this season. Whether that happens is unknown, but that plus the cost, is probably why he'll pass on signing Jones or drafting Okudah.

It's not just Jones. I don't want Conklin either. I'm strongly inclined not sign any high priced FAs. Bidding wars for their services are common.
You need at least one shut down corner  
ChicagoMarty : 2/22/2020 10:57 pm : link
to put on the opposing team's top wr.

We lost ours with Jackrabbit moving on.

Neither Baker, Beal, or Ballentine are shut down corners.

Jones is and he is still relatively young.

Jones might be expensive but he would still be a better option then having to use our first choice on Okudah who I love.

JInts absolutely have to improve their pass coverage

Even if they just get it up from #28 to middle of the pack that would be comparable to KC and they can hopefully rely on their offense to be competitive.

If you want to improve your pass defense and obtain a top OT with our first draft pick and obtain additional draft picks then I have outlined a way to do that
Our secondary was probably our worst unit last year  
AcesUp : 2/22/2020 11:00 pm : link
And that’s a low bar. I don’t see a single guy among Baker, Beal, Love or Ballentine that you can hang your hat on as building blocks. 1-2 of them may work out but unfortunately there isn’t anybody in there that you can write in ink. Secondary is a huge need. They definitely need a nickel. They probably need a starting caliber boundary corner and deep safety.
Our defense was bad for many reasons  
Rjanyg : 2/22/2020 11:34 pm : link
No dominant pass rusher anywhere on the line, no LB that can cover anybody especially TE’s. Our free safety, while very smart and experienced, was slow and slow to react. Awful at times which exposed the youth in our secondary. We need help at all 3 lines of defense: a top edge rusher, a cover LB and a true center field free safety.

Don’t discount how they compliment each other.
I'd pass on signing average OL like the Pats guys...  
Torrag : 2/23/2020 12:38 pm : link
they stunk there last year why would they be better here?

McGovern is a solid OC. Not special but reliable. Two notches above anyone we've fielded the last three years at the position.

I'd also spend for an experienced CB and there are several good options coming on the market. It doesn't have to be Jones but it needs to happen. Our group is so young they need someone dependable to look to back there.

At safety I have no interest in McCourty he'll want more than he deserves at this stage and the contract will age poorly. Harris or Simmons are the way to go.

I agree with your take on ILB.

I agree Tanney needs to go for a backup that could step in and win in a pinch. I'm not a Keenum fan though.

Draft:

I agree we should trade down and draft an OT...if not take the top defensive player on the board among Okudah/Simmons/Brown.

The rest of your Draft I find underwhelming.
Ah but we agree on so much  
ChicagoMarty : 2/23/2020 1:42 pm : link
just where and how would you improve the whelm factor?
as far as strategy with the #4 pick there are three scenarios  
Torrag : 2/23/2020 3:35 pm : link
We trade down within the top 10 and draft an OT, we take an OT #4 or we take a defender #4. For the first two the result is the same except we add additional picks. Unlike you I wouldn't trade out for less than a 2nd and 3rd rounder.

So if we end up with an OT in the top 10 I'll assume we made the trade for an additional 2nd and 3rd and go from there.

Pick #1- OT Wills- he's the best combination of consistency, ability, technique and toughness of the group. I don't love his 'length' but he's so smooth and in control he's almost never 'reaching' for contact anyway.

Scenario #2 we stay at #4...IP(impact playmaker) Simmons. He's an elite playmaker with the speed we haven't had on our defense in way too long. He fits what we're hearing from Judge and Graham about scheming opponents week to week and being multiple. He's going to vert 41" and run in the 4.3-4.4 range at 6'4 235#. Too put that in perspective devin bush ran 4.43 at 5'11 230#. Speed kills.

Rather that propose two different scenarios from here I'll put out some prospects I like and obviously if we take an OT 1st I won't be taking another one in Round 2. Same goes for free agency.

OL-
OT Josh Jones- would be a 1st rounder in most drafts may slide too early 2nd due to positional depth. He's a well rounded prospect at a critical position. 2nd round.

OC Cesar Ruiz- He's really smart when you watch him on the field picking up stunts and games and he's always on his feet and moving them. The more I watch him the better I like him. 2nd Round.

WR-
WR/PR Brandon Aiyuk- Speed. Weapon. Strong balanced lower body feeds his elite YAC stats. Has a feel for open field running. Been a while since we had a legit return weapon as well. So he's a double threat. 2nd round.

Collin Johnson- Playmaker with size. Garrett's offense features a Z-flanker vertical perimeter threat. Collins fits the profile to a tee. He goes and gets it. 3rd round.

ER-
Terrell Lewis- Long and disruptive. Can bend the edge. Good hand play. Injuries have slowed him down. Borderline 1st round talent but I'd wait until the 3rd round. He's a lottery ticket type pick.

Bradlee Anae- quick twitch first step and he's a tough kid. Has skills you can't teach but needs technical development. Really had a strong second half of 2019 and a good Senior Bowl week. 3rd round.

ILB-
Jordyn Brooks- Diagnoses well. Has a nose for the ball and finishes. Physical and disruptive inside. 3rd round.

CB-
Lavert Hill- I'm looking for a slot CB to improve our inside coverage. Lavert has good footwork and breaks on the ball nicely. He's tough and a good tackler. 4th round.

Darnay Holmes- another twitchy interior DB with slot corner tools. 4th round.

S-
Jeremy Chinn- long safety who could augment the skillsets of Peppers and Love. Nice well rounded game. Good open field tackler. 4th round.

^^^ some of the guys from my Draft watchlist I'll be keeping an eye on at the Combine.



Some nice players there  
ChicagoMarty : 2/23/2020 3:55 pm : link
but you are being overly optimistic imo in thinking you can trade down for both a second and a third in this draft and still pick up Willis arguably the best LOT available.

It is also not fair to just list some nice players without saying exactily who you would pick and when since there is an opportunity cost with each selection you make - you lose out on another nice player.

So until you make the hard choices and give a full list you forfeit the right to criticize someone who did in fact do so.
'you forfeit the right to criticize someone who did in fact do so'  
Torrag : 2/23/2020 4:10 pm : link
Nonsense. It's called free speech. You put it out there and invited comment. You got it.

I think you're undervaluing even a short trade down. History has given us a compensation road map with the recent Jets trade up from #6 to #3 for Darnold which included two 2nd rounders in the same years draft and another the following year. I've asked for less to stay conservative and realistic. You're bending over and grabbing your ankles. In the NFL there is an established and hefty price tag to trade up into the Top 5 for a QB. Do your homework.

It's also very possible that Wills would still be available. The top prospects include Burrow/Tua/Okudah/Simmons/Brown/Jeudy/Herbert/Lamb/Thomas/Wirfs. That's ten prospects without including Wills. Depending on how they come off the board my #1 OT could easily be there for us. Do the math.

All in good fun. I enjoyed reading your post. I'm not being critical so much as pointing out options.
If I wanted to go full out fantasy  
ChicagoMarty : 2/23/2020 4:55 pm : link
I would suggest multiple trade downs in the first round to garner a bushel of extra choices and still retain a viable OT candidate.

That option may be there. And that is a main point of this thread.

But you have to be realistic too and if I were DG I would not want to risk losing out on Willis because there are just so many unknowns when dealing with thirty one other teams.

That is why I would only risk a short trade down. Others might see and opportunity to get more draft picks and address more holes. Different strokes.

The key imo is getting a good C and CB in FA to provide the GM with multiple options in the first round

If the opportunity to obtain a top pass covering FS and ILB is there then DG has to go for it imo.

He then has the opportunity to immensley improve our pass defense ratings while simultaneously improving the OL and for years to come
Nice effort Chicago  
Lines of Scrimmage : 2/23/2020 5:27 pm : link
I like addressing the OL in the draft early. Jones took way too many big hits and ridiculous to think he will have Eli's ability to always suit up. A young OL that can grow is needed. If the offense can run consistently they will improve TOP and create favorable down/distance while opening up play action.

FA I would be frugal. New staff relying on film for now. Give them a year to really understand the team and division. Prefer mid level signings and draft well. I would stay clear of Jones and give the young secondary another year.

Two area I would target heavily as well. WR and Front 7. All the teams in our division are reliant on the run. I don't see Haskins or Prescott doing fill without the team running well. Even Wentz.

Preventing teams from running in our division should be the focus this offseason imo.
That's a nice off season plan Marty  
montanagiant : 2/23/2020 5:35 pm : link
Good job
LOS & montana  
ChicagoMarty : 2/23/2020 7:14 pm : link
thanks much
RE: Nice effort Chicago  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/23/2020 7:29 pm : link
In comment 14816836 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
I like addressing the OL in the draft early. Jones took way too many big hits and ridiculous to think he will have Eli's ability to always suit up. A young OL that can grow is needed. If the offense can run consistently they will improve TOP and create favorable down/distance while opening up play action.

FA I would be frugal. New staff relying on film for now. Give them a year to really understand the team and division. Prefer mid level signings and draft well. I would stay clear of Jones and give the young secondary another year.

Two area I would target heavily as well. WR and Front 7. All the teams in our division are reliant on the run. I don't see Haskins or Prescott doing fill without the team running well. Even Wentz.

Preventing teams from running in our division should be the focus this offseason imo.


So your plan is to go out and be frugal, but sign a number 1 corner? Be better to sign Conklin and take Okudah, if we can. Okudah is a much better prospect than any of the olineman and plays a premium position. Line needs to be fixed but the first round and especially the top half, you take the best availabe player at a premium position if the discrepency is that big. Now I don't know how you feel about Okudah, but I believe the tier is him and young and everyone else. I wouldn't sacrifce that much of a talent drop even though yes we absolutely need to keep DJ protect. This draft is full of red chip oline, we really should cluster draft there and losing that 3rd really hurts.
'losing that 3rd really hurts'  
Torrag : 2/23/2020 7:32 pm : link
C'mon. Most 3rd don't even sign a 2nd contract in the NFL. Literally a 50% bust out rate. Would it be nice to have it. Sure but let's not lose perspective.
Alibi  
ChicagoMarty : 2/23/2020 7:40 pm : link
Who said anything about being frugal?

Not me.

Jones is going to cost a ton but he would be worth it since obtaining a lockdown corner is the single best thing we can do in terms of improving our horrible pass defense.

We have the bucks this year to spend in FA.

Lets spend wisely.

I have outlined a step by step plan to do so.

I luv Okudah

But trading down with a team that shares my love for Okudah can reap extra picks and still allow us to obtain a talented OT e.g. Willis that can be slotted into an OT position right now and we won't have to worry about the postiion for 10-12 years.

Bolstering the OL has to rate high in terms of the offseason tactical approach to both FA and the Draft.

Fortunately we can draft into a strength of the draft given the quantity and quality of the OT's available in the first round.

Fix the Pass D in FA by targeting specific players at each layer of the D
Bolster the OL first by procuring a C in FA and then drafting an OT and OG who is versatile

Draft a speedy Moneybacker and a big cb to further bolster the Pass D

Draft some depth at WR, QB and RB

Thats the plan

Those are the goals
RE: RE: Nice effort Chicago  
Lines of Scrimmage : 2/23/2020 7:55 pm : link
In comment 14816871 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 14816836 Lines of Scrimmage said:


Quote:


I like addressing the OL in the draft early. Jones took way too many big hits and ridiculous to think he will have Eli's ability to always suit up. A young OL that can grow is needed. If the offense can run consistently they will improve TOP and create favorable down/distance while opening up play action.

FA I would be frugal. New staff relying on film for now. Give them a year to really understand the team and division. Prefer mid level signings and draft well. I would stay clear of Jones and give the young secondary another year.

Two area I would target heavily as well. WR and Front 7. All the teams in our division are reliant on the run. I don't see Haskins or Prescott doing fill without the team running well. Even Wentz.

Preventing teams from running in our division should be the focus this offseason imo.



So your plan is to go out and be frugal, but sign a number 1 corner? Be better to sign Conklin and take Okudah, if we can. Okudah is a much better prospect than any of the olineman and plays a premium position. Line needs to be fixed but the first round and especially the top half, you take the best availabe player at a premium position if the discrepency is that big. Now I don't know how you feel about Okudah, but I believe the tier is him and young and everyone else. I wouldn't sacrifce that much of a talent drop even though yes we absolutely need to keep DJ protect. This draft is full of red chip oline, we really should cluster draft there and losing that 3rd really hurts.


I said no to signing a corner unless mid level FA. I am first concerned with stopping the run in our Division. If Okudah or Simmons are superior to the OT at 4 then I would be open to that. But it would have to be by a decent margin.

Fixing the OL helps everything including defense. Not only would I draft high this year but every year after they should be adding a premium pick to OL. Nothing has caused more damage to the franchise for years now then neglecting the OL imo.
Management  
ChicagoMarty : 2/23/2020 8:31 pm : link
has invested heavily in stopping the run with what they are expected to pay Williams on top of the draft choices we sacrificed to get him.

Add in the fact that Dexter Lawrence cost a first-round choice and Dalvin Tomlinson a second-round pick and I don't think anyone can say that we are not invested in stopping the run.

If we don't improve our pass defense we won't be competitive - period

Close to two-thirds of all offensive plays in the contemporary NFL are pass plays and our pass defense rates at the very bottom of the league.

Why run against us when passing is so easy?

Pass Defense must be improved and so must the OL.

We are heavily invested in a talented young qb and a possible HOF type of RB so we are compelled to obtain quality OL

The above-outlined plan improves our OL at every position while also addressing the pass defense
Management  
ChicagoMarty : 2/23/2020 8:34 pm : link
has invested heavily in stopping the run with what they are expected to pay Williams on top of the draft choices we sacrificed to get him.

Add in the fact that Dexter Lawrence cost a first-round choice and Dalvin Tomlinson a second-round pick and I don't think anyone can say that we are not invested in stopping the run.

If we don't improve our pass defense we won't be competitive - period

Close to two-thirds of all offensive plays in the contemporary NFL are pass plays and our pass defense rates at the very bottom of the league.

Why run against us when passing is so easy?

Pass Defense must be improved and so must the OL.

We are heavily invested in a talented young qb and a possible HOF type of RB so we are compelled to obtain quality OL

The above-outlined plan improves our OL at every position while also addressing the pass defense
RE: as far as strategy with the #4 pick there are three scenarios  
giantstock : 2/23/2020 8:39 pm : link
In comment 14816800 Torrag said:
Quote:
We trade down within the top 10 and draft an OT, we take an OT #4 or we take a defender #4. For the first two the result is the same except we add additional picks. Unlike you I wouldn't trade out for less than a 2nd and 3rd rounder.

So if we end up with an OT in the top 10 I'll assume we made the trade for an additional 2nd and 3rd and go from there.

Pick #1- OT Wills- he's the best combination of consistency, ability, technique and toughness of the group. I don't love his 'length' but he's so smooth and in control he's almost never 'reaching' for contact anyway.




what? We can get Wills And a 2nd rd pick????? No way. But to play along--

in FA get 3 defenisve impact players and one center. Ofc LW is a priority for DG. No point ignoring that.

In FA get Ngakoue.

In FA get Littleton and McGovern.
-----------
Draft rds 1-3 with a late 2nd rd pick for trading down:

Rd 1 OT-- Wills
Rd 2 WR -- Jefferson (I assume Shernault and Higgins are gone and maybe AIyuk)

Rd 2 - CB- later in round -- Damon Arnette

Rd 3-- S-- Kyle Dugger
'what? We can get Wills And a 2nd rd pick????? No way.'  
Torrag : 2/23/2020 8:45 pm : link
History has given us a compensation road map with the recent Jets trade up from #6 to #3 for Darnold which included two 2nd rounders in the same years draft and another the following year. I've asked for less to stay conservative and realistic.

^^^This.
RE: Management  
giantstock : 2/23/2020 9:24 pm : link
In comment 14816915 ChicagoMarty said:
Quote:
has invested heavily in stopping the run with what they are expected to pay Williams on top of the draft choices we sacrificed to get him.

Add in the fact that Dexter Lawrence cost a first-round choice and Dalvin Tomlinson a second-round pick and I don't think anyone can say that we are not invested in stopping the run.

If we don't improve our pass defense we won't be competitive - period

Close to two-thirds of all offensive plays in the contemporary NFL are pass plays and our pass defense rates at the very bottom of the league.

Why run against us when passing is so easy?

Pass Defense must be improved and so must the OL.

We are heavily invested in a talented young qb and a possible HOF type of RB so we are compelled to obtain quality OL

The above-outlined plan improves our OL at every position while also addressing the pass defense


Which is why you need pass rushing as a priority. That's got to be number 1. CB and S have to take a backseat to pass rushing, and linebackers and OL.

Games are won in the trenches. Pass rushers help the secondary.
RE: 'what? We can get Wills And a 2nd rd pick????? No way.'  
giantstock : 2/23/2020 9:25 pm : link
In comment 14816921 Torrag said:
Quote:
History has given us a compensation road map with the recent Jets trade up from #6 to #3 for Darnold which included two 2nd rounders in the same years draft and another the following year. I've asked for less to stay conservative and realistic.

^^^This.


I'm all in if that were to happen.
giantstock  
ChicagoMarty : 2/23/2020 10:13 pm : link
You have it exactly backwards but thanks for your contribution
RE: giantstock  
giantstock : 2/23/2020 10:52 pm : link
In comment 14816959 ChicagoMarty said:
Quote:
You have it exactly backwards but thanks for your contribution


No I don't--

you do my friend.

Stopping the run  
Lines of Scrimmage : 2/24/2020 7:16 am : link
There is a big difference between being pretty good at stopping the run and being a team that teams can't run on. The Giants should be the latter.

Dallas and Philly both have very good lines and will continue to invest in them. Washington with Rivera will do the same.

Win the trenches coupled with a very good coach and QB you win the division. NFC East football has long been determined by this formula imo.

Sure, strengthen the secondary. I just would not allocate heavy resources this year unless Okudah is a HOF talent and is a big difference talent wise with the best OT. Let the young pups develop.

Agree with WillVAB  
JonC : 2/24/2020 10:20 am : link
.
It really doesn't matter  
ChicagoMarty : 2/24/2020 10:46 am : link
what philosophy any of us value

The new head coach has stated he wants to stress versatility. That means he wants to stress the run against some teams and the pass against others.

Same with the Defense.

In order to do that on D he will need to fix the pass defense whichis one of the worst in the league and is porous on every level.
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