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| 2. I think of all the things I read about the draft in the past week, this, from Paul Schwartz of the New York Post about the general manager of the Giants, was most fascinating: Dave Gettleman has presided over seven drafts as a general manager — five with the Panthers and two with the Giants — and has never traded down. Never. He selected 28 players with the Panthers and 16 in his two drafts with the Giants (plus one more in the supplemental draft). Think of that: A GM who has made 45 picks has never traded down to accumulate more picks from any of the 45. That is borderline negligent. Maybe not even borderline. I am incredulous about that. As I documented last week, GM John Schneider of the Seahawks used last year’s 21st overall pick and traded down six times to accumulate six picks, one of whom was wide receiver DK Metcalf, who, as it turned out, produced better value than a 21st pick in most drafts as a rookie. And four other players from the trade played for the Seahawks last season. Trying to not make too much of that, but wow. Just wow. |
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At least DG trades up, what was Reese's first tradeup, Davis Webb? Yeesh.
The extent of King's research and analysis is reading and repeating whatever is screamed the loudest on bbi.
I'm pretty sure they drafted Webb with their own pick in the 3rd round that year. Reese did trade up in that draft though - for Bisnowaty.
I'm also pretty sure that your previous handle used to get the Davis Webb thing wrong frequently also.
Right position, wrong player. Reese traded up for Ryan Nassib in 2013 4th round.
he also traded up for Ramses Barden in 2009.
maybe more.
This means that trading down incurs greater risk.
With greater risk should come a premium for taking on that risk. However, exacting that premium requires negotiating skills.
So effectively trading down requires the guts to take the risk and the skills to make the appropriate deal. If you don't have those traits or the confidence that you have them, trading down may be too much you...
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And if so, what those offers were?
If you believe DG when he speaks, he received offers for the #2 pick in 2018.
As for knowing what the offers were, that's a pretty stupid burden of proof to require in order to have a fucking conversation on a message board.
LOL...Do you realize how stupid you sound if you're sitting here arguing that now knowing the offers has nothing to do with the claim he just won't trade down?
Seriously, what if he was offered crap and didn't do it? That doesn't come into play? This is basic common sense to want to know what was offered for the trade down in order to judge if it was legit or not. Unless of course, you have an agenda on here to dog the guy.
Basing any opinion on if he was wrong for not doing something ALWAYS involves understanding what were the terms
OfC we have to know the definition of "TRIED."
Because we've heard similar stories for example regarding the trade of Beckham in which there was the possibility that we could've gotten more from San Fran per the links below.
https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2019/04/08/49ers-stunned-new-york-giants-didnt-let-them-up-odell-beckham-offer/
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/nfl-rumors-giants-gm-didnt-shop-browns-odell-beckham-trade-offer-49ers
So while you seem resigned to the fact that "DG will get criticized anyways"
This is just another example of potential IGNORANCE by DG by not taking an additional step that any idiot can do some further due diligence while some DG supporters on here will hide behind the words that he "TRIED." I'm not saying the articles are right or wrong. Just there is concern with DG unlike some here who continue to bury their heads in the sand.
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In comment 14817488 montanagiant said:
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And if so, what those offers were?
If you believe DG when he speaks, he received offers for the #2 pick in 2018.
As for knowing what the offers were, that's a pretty stupid burden of proof to require in order to have a fucking conversation on a message board.
LOL...Do you realize how stupid you sound if you're sitting here arguing that now knowing the offers has nothing to do with the claim he just won't trade down?
Seriously, what if he was offered crap and didn't do it? That doesn't come into play? This is basic common sense to want to know what was offered for the trade down in order to judge if it was legit or not. Unless of course, you have an agenda on here to dog the guy.
Basing any opinion on if he was wrong for not doing something ALWAYS involves understanding what were the terms
For christs sakes montana, do you know how many times I have posted this...
[url]https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj24qGepeznAhULheAKHTdOA44QFjAAegQIBxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sny.tv%2Fgiants%2Fnews%2Fgettleman-admits-he-received-one-very-reasonable-offer-for-no-2-pick%2F274562184&usg=AOvVaw2iX94YR61--Dajw6oxpZ8J[/url]
So Gettleman himself says it was credible... And he chose *NOT* to chase it down with further negotiations.
Actually he said "reasonable"
Really? What are the odds that in seven drafts, no team ever made an offer of this type to Gettleman?
It's perfectly fine to have a philosophy that favors trading up over trading down. It doesn't mean you never trade down, it just limits the circumstances in which you would find such an offer in the best interest of your team.
The circumstances surrounding the 4th pick in 2020 are very different than the circumstances surrounding the 2nd pick in 2018. How many of you would be clamoring to trade down if Chase Young is still available at pick #4?
It's perfectly fine to have a philosophy that favors trading up over trading down. It doesn't mean you never trade down, it just limits the circumstances in which you would find such an offer in the best interest of your team.
The circumstances surrounding the 4th pick in 2020 are very different than the circumstances surrounding the 2nd pick in 2018. How many of you would be clamoring to trade down if Chase Young is still available at pick #4?
It depends why he's still available, doesn't it.
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...doesn't make it an offer that it's the best interest of your team. Someone could give you a reasonable offer for your car or house, it doesn't mean you sell it to them.
It's perfectly fine to have a philosophy that favors trading up over trading down. It doesn't mean you never trade down, it just limits the circumstances in which you would find such an offer in the best interest of your team.
The circumstances surrounding the 4th pick in 2020 are very different than the circumstances surrounding the 2nd pick in 2018. How many of you would be clamoring to trade down if Chase Young is still available at pick #4?
It depends why he's still available, doesn't it.
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In comment 14817898 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 14817488 montanagiant said:
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And if so, what those offers were?
If you believe DG when he speaks, he received offers for the #2 pick in 2018.
As for knowing what the offers were, that's a pretty stupid burden of proof to require in order to have a fucking conversation on a message board.
LOL...Do you realize how stupid you sound if you're sitting here arguing that now knowing the offers has nothing to do with the claim he just won't trade down?
Seriously, what if he was offered crap and didn't do it? That doesn't come into play? This is basic common sense to want to know what was offered for the trade down in order to judge if it was legit or not. Unless of course, you have an agenda on here to dog the guy.
Basing any opinion on if he was wrong for not doing something ALWAYS involves understanding what were the terms
For christs sakes montana, do you know how many times I have posted this...
[url]https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj24qGepeznAhULheAKHTdOA44QFjAAegQIBxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sny.tv%2Fgiants%2Fnews%2Fgettleman-admits-he-received-one-very-reasonable-offer-for-no-2-pick%2F274562184&usg=AOvVaw2iX94YR61--Dajw6oxpZ8J[/url]
So Gettleman himself says it was credible... And he chose *NOT* to chase it down with further negotiations.
So out of 48 picks we have ONE time he refused to trade down because he wanted Barkley...The horror of it all!
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In comment 14818082 montanagiant said:
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In comment 14817898 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 14817488 montanagiant said:
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And if so, what those offers were?
If you believe DG when he speaks, he received offers for the #2 pick in 2018.
As for knowing what the offers were, that's a pretty stupid burden of proof to require in order to have a fucking conversation on a message board.
LOL...Do you realize how stupid you sound if you're sitting here arguing that now knowing the offers has nothing to do with the claim he just won't trade down?
Seriously, what if he was offered crap and didn't do it? That doesn't come into play? This is basic common sense to want to know what was offered for the trade down in order to judge if it was legit or not. Unless of course, you have an agenda on here to dog the guy.
Basing any opinion on if he was wrong for not doing something ALWAYS involves understanding what were the terms
For christs sakes montana, do you know how many times I have posted this...
[url]https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj24qGepeznAhULheAKHTdOA44QFjAAegQIBxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sny.tv%2Fgiants%2Fnews%2Fgettleman-admits-he-received-one-very-reasonable-offer-for-no-2-pick%2F274562184&usg=AOvVaw2iX94YR61--Dajw6oxpZ8J[/url]
So Gettleman himself says it was credible... And he chose *NOT* to chase it down with further negotiations.
So out of 48 picks we have ONE time he refused to trade down because he wanted Barkley...The horror of it all!
That's one documented time, right? I think it's reasonable that he probably has received offers multiple times - it feels farfetched to think that he has never gotten a viable offer except for this one time.
But I also think DG's POV is pretty clear in that article - once he has zeroed in on a target for a particular pick, he seems to have a tough time reconciling the value of the trade if it means losing out on that player. And I assume that means that his asking price goes up as his attachment to the player he's about to draft grows.
That seems to me like a fairly normal human response to that sort of situation, so I can't kill DG for it, although I would always prefer if my chief negotiator truly did approach everything in purely implied value terms and didn't allow himself to personalize any aspect of it. That's asking a lot though, and I need to do a better job of not criticizing DG for things that the majority of people would be guilty of as well, myself included at times.
Certainly. And all attractive offers are viable but not necessarily vice versa (like squares and rectangles). I find it hard to believe that DG has never received an offer that, objectively, some would find to be to his advantage. I simply suspect that the price tag that he assigns to meet that "advantageous" threshold probably tends to increase as he locks in on a particular target. And I say that fully aware that I am trying to reconcile a single fact (that DG has never traded down) in absence of very few other supporting facts (not knowing what the offers were, only knowing of one documented "reasonable offer," and expanding upon the POV that DG mentioned in that article).
It's hardly the pinnacle of deductive reasoning.
So out of 48 picks we have ONE time he refused to trade down because he wanted Barkley...The horror of it all!
Just to be clear on this...
YOU were the one who was calling Gatorade Dunk stupid because he didn't know the details... However the article makes it clear in Gettleman's own words that he wasn't offerred "crap", as you put it, he indeed received a "very reasonable" offer. In the presser after the pick, Gettleman himself said he CHOSE not to follow up on any offers.
I am just pointing out the facts in a case where you were calling another poster stupid. I am not trying say anything in particular about Gettleman's state of mind for his other 47 picks. Nor am I predicting what he will do in April.
That said, I know GD has seen that article before because we've been involved in discussions where I had to post it then as well. So, GD is well aware of the facts, and clearly you were not.
That is all..
However the article makes it clear in Gettleman's own words that he wasn't offerred "crap", as you put it, he indeed received a "very reasonable" offer. In the presser after the pick, Gettleman himself said he CHOSE not to follow up on any offers.
.
McL - keep in mind that Gettleman gets caught saying a lot questionable things as is nature to be a little mouthy.
With that, the offer he received may have been indeed crap but he didn't want to keep shitting on the other GM that offered it so he softened his wording to "very reasonable" for this quote. And left it with he didn't follow up.
Since we don't/won't know, its all supposition.
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So out of 48 picks we have ONE time he refused to trade down because he wanted Barkley...The horror of it all!
Just to be clear on this...
YOU were the one who was calling Gatorade Dunk stupid because he didn't know the details... However the article makes it clear in Gettleman's own words that he wasn't offerred "crap", as you put it, he indeed received a "very reasonable" offer. In the presser after the pick, Gettleman himself said he CHOSE not to follow up on any offers.
I am just pointing out the facts in a case where you were calling another poster stupid. I am not trying say anything in particular about Gettleman's state of mind for his other 47 picks. Nor am I predicting what he will do in April.
That said, I know GD has seen that article before because we've been involved in discussions where I had to post it then as well. So, GD is well aware of the facts, and clearly you were not.
That is all..
No Ace, HE was the one who said having that info is a stupid burden of proof. I pointed out not to have that proof is stupid to make any claim that he's done a crappy job at not trading back.
And if you actually took the time to read what I wrote I never said he was offered crap, I said what if? Those are the aspects to this dumb argument that have to be known in order to state he's been negligent or good as a GM on draft day when it comes to trading back.
If you can't understand that basic logic then God help you
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In comment 14818276 montanagiant said:
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So out of 48 picks we have ONE time he refused to trade down because he wanted Barkley...The horror of it all!
Just to be clear on this...
YOU were the one who was calling Gatorade Dunk stupid because he didn't know the details... However the article makes it clear in Gettleman's own words that he wasn't offerred "crap", as you put it, he indeed received a "very reasonable" offer. In the presser after the pick, Gettleman himself said he CHOSE not to follow up on any offers.
I am just pointing out the facts in a case where you were calling another poster stupid. I am not trying say anything in particular about Gettleman's state of mind for his other 47 picks. Nor am I predicting what he will do in April.
That said, I know GD has seen that article before because we've been involved in discussions where I had to post it then as well. So, GD is well aware of the facts, and clearly you were not.
That is all..
No Ace, HE was the one who said having that info is a stupid burden of proof. I pointed out not to have that proof is stupid to make any claim that he's done a crappy job at not trading back.
And if you actually took the time to read what I wrote I never said he was offered crap, I said what if? Those are the aspects to this dumb argument that have to be known in order to state he's been negligent or good as a GM on draft day when it comes to trading back.
If you can't understand that basic logic then God help you
Unfortunately for you, I am not the one in need of God's help...
So what if you said "what if he was offered crap"... That is dumb because by his own admission, we know he was not offered crap. So your hypothetical is immediately subverted.
Also, of course we will never know the exact offer, that *IS* a stupid burden of proof. However, we know enough... We know by GD's own admission that it was very reasonable.
Those are simple facts, undisputed by Gettleman himself.
Beyond that I make no further claims.
Yes Dunk did extrapolate further, but he was also careful to say that what he was doing was flimsy at best. But you were calling him stupid, not so much for his conclusion, but even for the exercise saying he didn't know that the offer wasn't crap... In fact, at least Dunk knew that the offer wasn't crap as you were hypothesizing. ONLY you suggested that, ONLY you seem to be unaware of Gettleman's admissions.
You should be more careful telling others *THEY* sound stupid.
That is all..
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However the article makes it clear in Gettleman's own words that he wasn't offerred "crap", as you put it, he indeed received a "very reasonable" offer. In the presser after the pick, Gettleman himself said he CHOSE not to follow up on any offers.
.
McL - keep in mind that Gettleman gets caught saying a lot questionable things as is nature to be a little mouthy.
With that, the offer he received may have been indeed crap but he didn't want to keep shitting on the other GM that offered it so he softened his wording to "very reasonable" for this quote. And left it with he didn't follow up.
Since we don't/won't know, its all supposition.
Yeah... I don't think so this time. When Gettleman isn't being a buffoon, he speak with quite a lot of candor. This seemed like a moment of candor. Plus it was amid reports that there were multiple credible offers, and he was starting to get some heat. When he gets heat, he tends to stop the blustering.
I have to say I strongly believe him this time.
Let's see here:
1) We don't know how many trade back offers were made to him.
2) We don't know how many were reasonable offers
3) The one he mentions that was reasonable involves a generational player which usually means it needs to be a great offer.
4) The ONLY fact we have is that he claimed that a reasonable offer for the 2nd pick was offered to him.
And yet, you're going to sit here and dog the guy because of that one single time where he chooses to get a can't miss player at a position of need instead of taking a reasonable offer (We still don't even know what the offer is. That is absurd on yours and Peter Kings part to even offer this up as any kind of an argument against DG.
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In comment 14818529 .McL. said:
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However the article makes it clear in Gettleman's own words that he wasn't offerred "crap", as you put it, he indeed received a "very reasonable" offer. In the presser after the pick, Gettleman himself said he CHOSE not to follow up on any offers.
.
McL - keep in mind that Gettleman gets caught saying a lot questionable things as is nature to be a little mouthy.
With that, the offer he received may have been indeed crap but he didn't want to keep shitting on the other GM that offered it so he softened his wording to "very reasonable" for this quote. And left it with he didn't follow up.
Since we don't/won't know, its all supposition.
Yeah... I don't think so this time. When Gettleman isn't being a buffoon, he speak with quite a lot of candor. This seemed like a moment of candor. Plus it was amid reports that there were multiple credible offers, and he was starting to get some heat. When he gets heat, he tends to stop the blustering.
I have to say I strongly believe him this time.
But you don't really know do you?
LMAO...This is too funny
Mahomes went to a very ideal situation. This wasn't an Andrew Luck miss.
Wouldn't be quite what he is regarded today anywhere outside KC. Chicago, even SF who could have drafted him easily.
Mahomes is a good QB, but KC was perfect fit. Reid as OC, those weapons, a year redshirting....
Alex Smith's final season there was best of his career, and then his #s with the Skins and last year 49ers were worse than that.
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In comment 14818545 LBH15 said:
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In comment 14818529 .McL. said:
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However the article makes it clear in Gettleman's own words that he wasn't offerred "crap", as you put it, he indeed received a "very reasonable" offer. In the presser after the pick, Gettleman himself said he CHOSE not to follow up on any offers.
.
McL - keep in mind that Gettleman gets caught saying a lot questionable things as is nature to be a little mouthy.
With that, the offer he received may have been indeed crap but he didn't want to keep shitting on the other GM that offered it so he softened his wording to "very reasonable" for this quote. And left it with he didn't follow up.
Since we don't/won't know, its all supposition.
Yeah... I don't think so this time. When Gettleman isn't being a buffoon, he speak with quite a lot of candor. This seemed like a moment of candor. Plus it was amid reports that there were multiple credible offers, and he was starting to get some heat. When he gets heat, he tends to stop the blustering.
I have to say I strongly believe him this time.
But you don't really know do you?
LMAO...This is too funny
If we can only post about the things we know, this board would cease to exist. You do understand the point of a message board, right?
Let's see here:
1) We don't know how many trade back offers were made to him.
2) We don't know how many were reasonable offers
3) The one he mentions that was reasonable involves a generational player which usually means it needs to be a great offer.
4) The ONLY fact we have is that he claimed that a reasonable offer for the 2nd pick was offered to him.
And yet, you're going to sit here and dog the guy because of that one single time where he chooses to get a can't miss player at a position of need instead of taking a reasonable offer (We still don't even know what the offer is. That is absurd on yours and Peter Kings part to even offer this up as any kind of an argument against DG.
I'm gonna dog him because he's a mediocre GM. This just happens to be the topic of this thread.
I was right about the alphabet soup dupe from last night, wasn't I? You should try taking my word for things more often even when it makes you uncomfortable.
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Now claiming because he mentioned that he had one reasonable offer that means you can extrapolate that out of the 47 other draft picks that may have involved getting offered a trade-down were all reasonable offers?
Let's see here:
1) We don't know how many trade back offers were made to him.
2) We don't know how many were reasonable offers
3) The one he mentions that was reasonable involves a generational player which usually means it needs to be a great offer.
4) The ONLY fact we have is that he claimed that a reasonable offer for the 2nd pick was offered to him.
And yet, you're going to sit here and dog the guy because of that one single time where he chooses to get a can't miss player at a position of need instead of taking a reasonable offer (We still don't even know what the offer is. That is absurd on yours and Peter Kings part to even offer this up as any kind of an argument against DG.
I'm gonna dog him because he's a mediocre GM. This just happens to be the topic of this thread.
I was right about the alphabet soup dupe from last night, wasn't I? You should try taking my word for things more often even when it makes you uncomfortable.
Believe me, there is plenty of stuff to dog him over. This just isn't one of them based on the evidence we completely lack
Let's see here:
1) We don't know how many trade back offers were made to him.
2) We don't know how many were reasonable offers
3) The one he mentions that was reasonable involves a generational player which usually means it needs to be a great offer.
4) The ONLY fact we have is that he claimed that a reasonable offer for the 2nd pick was offered to him.
And yet, you're going to sit here and dog the guy because of that one single time where he chooses to get a can't miss player at a position of need instead of taking a reasonable offer (We still don't even know what the offer is. That is absurd on yours and Peter Kings part to even offer this up as any kind of an argument against DG.
You seem to completely missing the fact that I'm not extrapolating anything.
I'm not making any statements whatsoever about whether DG will or will not trade down.
You on the other had called another poster stupid for not know that the offer wasn't crap. Well according to Dave and public reporting, the offer wasn't crap.
Just stating facts, nothing more...
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In comment 14818754 .McL. said:
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In comment 14818545 LBH15 said:
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In comment 14818529 .McL. said:
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However the article makes it clear in Gettleman's own words that he wasn't offerred "crap", as you put it, he indeed received a "very reasonable" offer. In the presser after the pick, Gettleman himself said he CHOSE not to follow up on any offers.
.
McL - keep in mind that Gettleman gets caught saying a lot questionable things as is nature to be a little mouthy.
With that, the offer he received may have been indeed crap but he didn't want to keep shitting on the other GM that offered it so he softened his wording to "very reasonable" for this quote. And left it with he didn't follow up.
Since we don't/won't know, its all supposition.
Yeah... I don't think so this time. When Gettleman isn't being a buffoon, he speak with quite a lot of candor. This seemed like a moment of candor. Plus it was amid reports that there were multiple credible offers, and he was starting to get some heat. When he gets heat, he tends to stop the blustering.
I have to say I strongly believe him this time.
But you don't really know do you?
LMAO...This is too funny
If we can only post about the things we know, this board would cease to exist. You do understand the point of a message board, right?
LOL...Wait a minute didn't you just yesterday bitch some guy out for making an OP that differs from your beliefs? You claim he was a dupe (with zero proof) and claimed his OP was not worth signing up on BBI to post.
You do understand the point of a message board, right?
And by the way, where did I say he shouldn't post? What is it with you two and the lack of reading comprehension?
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In comment 14818545 LBH15 said:
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In comment 14818529 .McL. said:
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However the article makes it clear in Gettleman's own words that he wasn't offerred "crap", as you put it, he indeed received a "very reasonable" offer. In the presser after the pick, Gettleman himself said he CHOSE not to follow up on any offers.
.
McL - keep in mind that Gettleman gets caught saying a lot questionable things as is nature to be a little mouthy.
With that, the offer he received may have been indeed crap but he didn't want to keep shitting on the other GM that offered it so he softened his wording to "very reasonable" for this quote. And left it with he didn't follow up.
Since we don't/won't know, its all supposition.
Yeah... I don't think so this time. When Gettleman isn't being a buffoon, he speak with quite a lot of candor. This seemed like a moment of candor. Plus it was amid reports that there were multiple credible offers, and he was starting to get some heat. When he gets heat, he tends to stop the blustering.
I have to say I strongly believe him this time.
But you don't really know do you?
LMAO...This is too funny
So you are staking a claim that you were or were not a dick for calling Gatorade Dunk stupid on whether or not we should Gettleman was lying about receiving a "very reasonable" offer.
OKEY DOKEY then...
Why is this so damn hard for you to comprehend?
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In comment 14818873 montanagiant said:
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In comment 14818754 .McL. said:
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In comment 14818545 LBH15 said:
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In comment 14818529 .McL. said:
Quote:
However the article makes it clear in Gettleman's own words that he wasn't offerred "crap", as you put it, he indeed received a "very reasonable" offer. In the presser after the pick, Gettleman himself said he CHOSE not to follow up on any offers.
.
McL - keep in mind that Gettleman gets caught saying a lot questionable things as is nature to be a little mouthy.
With that, the offer he received may have been indeed crap but he didn't want to keep shitting on the other GM that offered it so he softened his wording to "very reasonable" for this quote. And left it with he didn't follow up.
Since we don't/won't know, its all supposition.
Yeah... I don't think so this time. When Gettleman isn't being a buffoon, he speak with quite a lot of candor. This seemed like a moment of candor. Plus it was amid reports that there were multiple credible offers, and he was starting to get some heat. When he gets heat, he tends to stop the blustering.
I have to say I strongly believe him this time.
But you don't really know do you?
LMAO...This is too funny
If we can only post about the things we know, this board would cease to exist. You do understand the point of a message board, right?
LOL...Wait a minute didn't you just yesterday bitch some guy out for making an OP that differs from your beliefs? You claim he was a dupe (with zero proof) and claimed his OP was not worth signing up on BBI to post.
You do understand the point of a message board, right?
And by the way, where did I say he shouldn't post? What is it with you two and the lack of reading comprehension?
He got banned today.
Like I said, you should take my word for it.
No, the KVRHoljlfkasdl-90u guy.
But your victory lap about Jimmy was definitely your crowing achievement. Well done. You should be proud.
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LOL
No, the KVRHoljlfkasdl-90u guy.
But your victory lap about Jimmy was definitely your crowing achievement. Well done. You should be proud.
I was, I predicted it 2 weeks ago...It was inevitable that putz's time on here was limited
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Now claiming because he mentioned that he had one reasonable offer that means you can extrapolate that out of the 47 other draft picks that may have involved getting offered a trade-down were all reasonable offers?
Let's see here:
1) We don't know how many trade back offers were made to him.
2) We don't know how many were reasonable offers
3) The one he mentions that was reasonable involves a generational player which usually means it needs to be a great offer.
4) The ONLY fact we have is that he claimed that a reasonable offer for the 2nd pick was offered to him.
And yet, you're going to sit here and dog the guy because of that one single time where he chooses to get a can't miss player at a position of need instead of taking a reasonable offer (We still don't even know what the offer is. That is absurd on yours and Peter Kings part to even offer this up as any kind of an argument against DG.
You seem to completely missing the fact that I'm not extrapolating anything.
I'm not making any statements whatsoever about whether DG will or will not trade down.
You on the other had called another poster stupid for not know that the offer wasn't crap. Well according to Dave and public reporting, the offer wasn't crap.
Just stating facts, nothing more...
No, it was for not knowing if ANY of the trade back offers were crap or if they were "reasonable", not just the Barkley one. But you keep hanging your hat on that ONE trade back offer without knowing squat about any other ones. I understand, it's an extremely weak argument but it's all you have.
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In comment 14819046 montanagiant said:
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LOL
No, the KVRHoljlfkasdl-90u guy.
But your victory lap about Jimmy was definitely your crowing achievement. Well done. You should be proud.
I was, I predicted it 2 weeks ago...It was inevitable that putz's time on here was limited
He was here for years. When you become a true dupe-spotting Jedi, you can peg them within three days.
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In comment 14818871 montanagiant said:
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Now claiming because he mentioned that he had one reasonable offer that means you can extrapolate that out of the 47 other draft picks that may have involved getting offered a trade-down were all reasonable offers?
Let's see here:
1) We don't know how many trade back offers were made to him.
2) We don't know how many were reasonable offers
3) The one he mentions that was reasonable involves a generational player which usually means it needs to be a great offer.
4) The ONLY fact we have is that he claimed that a reasonable offer for the 2nd pick was offered to him.
And yet, you're going to sit here and dog the guy because of that one single time where he chooses to get a can't miss player at a position of need instead of taking a reasonable offer (We still don't even know what the offer is. That is absurd on yours and Peter Kings part to even offer this up as any kind of an argument against DG.
You seem to completely missing the fact that I'm not extrapolating anything.
I'm not making any statements whatsoever about whether DG will or will not trade down.
You on the other had called another poster stupid for not know that the offer wasn't crap. Well according to Dave and public reporting, the offer wasn't crap.
Just stating facts, nothing more...
No, it was for not knowing if ANY of the trade back offers were crap or if they were "reasonable", not just the Barkley one. But you keep hanging your hat on that ONE trade back offer without knowing squat about any other ones. I understand, it's an extremely weak argument but it's all you have.
It's a weak argument to extrapolate. It's even weaker to ignore Occam's Razor and assume that which you don't know for certain must not have happened at all. It's got a tinge of flat-earther to it, but maybe that's on brand for you, I don't know.
What if it 10 offers for trading back and 4 were decent offers but he instead stayed put and drafted Connerly, Slayton, Hernandez, Barkley, and Lawrence? Was that a bad move on his part? No.
What if it was 20 times and he could have gotten some true top-shelf talent with the trade backs? Was that wrong on his part? Hell yeah.
Without the facts regarding what and how many offers he received over those 48 picks it's dumb to claim he did a bad job. This is simple logic and rational here
It's a weak argument to extrapolate. It's even weaker to ignore Occam's Razor and assume that which you don't know for certain must not have happened at all. It's got a tinge of flat-earther to it, but maybe that's on brand for you, I don't know.
Whoa buddy, leave us flat-earthers outta this!
What happened?
What happened?
Probably took on someone with the Thin Skinners, made the Thin Skinner uncomfortable, and then that Thin Skinner went to the BBI Gestapo. And begged for retribution.
What if it 10 offers for trading back and 4 were decent offers but he instead stayed put and drafted Connerly, Slayton, Hernandez, Barkley, and Lawrence? Was that a bad move on his part? No.
What if it was 20 times and he could have gotten some true top-shelf talent with the trade backs? Was that wrong on his part? Hell yeah.
Without the facts regarding what and how many offers he received over those 48 picks it's dumb to claim he did a bad job. This is simple logic and rational here
Right. Without an abundance of evidence, you can't logically deduce anything. Like I said, flat earth.
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Without knowing how many and what the offers were you can't sit here and claim he's a shitty GM for not trading back.
What if it 10 offers for trading back and 4 were decent offers but he instead stayed put and drafted Connerly, Slayton, Hernandez, Barkley, and Lawrence? Was that a bad move on his part? No.
What if it was 20 times and he could have gotten some true top-shelf talent with the trade backs? Was that wrong on his part? Hell yeah.
Without the facts regarding what and how many offers he received over those 48 picks it's dumb to claim he did a bad job. This is simple logic and rational here
Right. Without an abundance of evidence, you can't logically deduce anything. Like I said, flat earth.
You don't even need an abundance, you just need a decent sample size and 1 out of 48 is the poorest sample size you could ask for
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In comment 14819116 montanagiant said:
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Without knowing how many and what the offers were you can't sit here and claim he's a shitty GM for not trading back.
What if it 10 offers for trading back and 4 were decent offers but he instead stayed put and drafted Connerly, Slayton, Hernandez, Barkley, and Lawrence? Was that a bad move on his part? No.
What if it was 20 times and he could have gotten some true top-shelf talent with the trade backs? Was that wrong on his part? Hell yeah.
Without the facts regarding what and how many offers he received over those 48 picks it's dumb to claim he did a bad job. This is simple logic and rational here
Right. Without an abundance of evidence, you can't logically deduce anything. Like I said, flat earth.
You don't even need an abundance, you just need a decent sample size and 1 out of 48 is the poorest sample size you could ask for
I understand what you're saying, but again, your burden of proof makes a conversation completely impossible on this topic (which may or may not be your intent). You simply do not hear about the trades that don't get made. You don't hear about the offers that don't get accepted. And you sure as hell don't hear about the phone calls that don't get answered. That doesn't mean none of those things happen simply because they don't get reported. No one has reported what DG has eaten at any point in 2020. By your standard, it would seem that we should take that to mean that he hasn't eaten in 2020.
DG has made plenty of casual references over his time here that suggest that he doesn't always feel the need to even engage in trade talks during the draft. If that's the case, he's doing the team a disservice to not at least explore every option. But DG also says a lot of things that may simply be hyperbole because he tends to be a blowhard.
And I get it, that's another unknown, but that's the point of the debate. I suppose we're probably at an impasse either way because you believe DG is doing a good job and I do not. But I'm hopeful that Judge can institute a different process for doing things that offers more self-evaluation than this front office has done in several years, across multiple GM tenures.
So what if he was offered a reasonable trade-down when you have a player like SB there. Reasonable is not going to get it done, it would have to be a great offer.
The point here is that King basis his weak argument on zero facts. That is hacky sportswriter crap on the same level as Lombardo and completely unfair to DG
This is quite different though than debating whether staying at #2 and picking running back was optimum path.
This is quite different though than debating whether staying at #2 and picking running back was optimum path.
For a team needing a whole lot of restructuring, albeit DG didn't see it that way at the time.
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argue potential trade down deal with knowing terms, even somewhat.
This is quite different though than debating whether staying at #2 and picking running back was optimum path.
For a team needing a whole lot of restructuring, albeit DG didn't see it that way at the time.
I 100% agree with that. That is a completely valid debate and in hindsight maybe the better move would have been to trade down