What are the Giants going to do about the Defense?

think we'll see cluster drafting of DE/EDGE RUSHERS on day three. That's about all we can do. We simply have too many holes, and protecting Jones is the highest priority. That and opening lanes for Barkley.

Jadeveon Clowney. To me, he is not worth it, and I don’t want this to happen. With that said, I do think that they have a chance of getting Zack Baun in the 2nd round. I think he could be that Edge that the Giants need. I do hope that X man and Carter can be coached up. That would be a big deal for the Giants defense.

That the giants use FA to address the defense, primarily, and the draft for with an eye toward OL. The defense has very little long term veteran money allocated anywhere. It also needs veteran leadership and plug and play talent. The OL has one, maybe two young guys to build around and this draft is deep in OL talent.

Giants are going big game hunting for defensive help in UFA. I’d be shocked if they land at least one big name or two.

Sorry for the typos

Let that play out then look to the Draft.

Simmons appears tailor made for Judge and Graham's philosophy of scheming opponents weaknesses week to week. That could be a perfect fit. It's been way too long since our defense featured a speed freak playmaker like him.

If there's a trade up to #3 for a QB Okudah could be there.

We could trade down and accumulate picks.

There are several intriguing slot corner prospects in the middle rounds.

So many roster building phases yet to come there are a lot of options to consider.

Let's not start with the sky is falling chicken 'lil routine.

I wanted Dupree and Conklin in FA. That’s still in play.

A trade down would be optimal, preferably with Oakland. At 12 and 19 I’d consider targeting Epenesa and Murray. In the 2nd I’d go Biadasz and in the 3rd Trey Adams.

Dupree — Murray — Connelly — Epenesa
Williams — Lawrence — Tomlinson

OL
Solder (Adams pushes) — Hernandez — Biadasz — Zeitler — Conklin

I think that’s a core to be optimistic about moving forward.

the "not a dog" thing is dumbest thing i've read. not accusing you gidiefor of that directly.

fa can make things change but those picks are most likely. no ot looks worthy of 4th pick.

trade down makes a lot of sense for me. raiders would be ideal. two picks in teens would provide a lot of value we need.

Golden had 10 sacks last year, on a defenseless defense! Need to draft a few LBers high. Hopefully Connelly will come back well off his ACL injury. LBer play was really lacking last year. Perhaps they sign Van Noy from NE As well. CBs have to show improvement this year. We need to sign a slot Corner and a Veteran Free Safety. Creative blitz packages will help. We might not be able to get that Edge we need this year.

-----

Who worked with Judge and Graham:

FS Devin McCourty
ILB Jamie Collins
OLB Kyle Van Noy

Sign these 3 defensive players (plus more).

Bypass on Conklin, draft Thomas at 4.

One?

In comment 14818059 MM_in_NYC said:

Quote:

the "not a dog" thing is dumbest thing i've read. not accusing you gidiefor of that directly.

One of the problems with a jack of all trades coming from college to the NFL is that the learning curve is very steep. You need to have a real passion to grasp all the concepts that are asked of you. A young guy like Simmons could be put in the position of being asked to do too much because that's what he did in college. Or, if you ask him to only do a limited amount of things where the need is, you risk asking him to perform a steady diet of something that may not be as sexy as what he used to do and not take advantage of his purported versatility.

Simmons makes me nervous. I do not know if he is NFL ready. He could be great and he could also fail to make the transition depending on his mentality. I can not get a sense of this with him at all.

In comment 14818067 Phil in LA said:

Quote:

One?

Phil, you really think that's all that's needed?

Biadasz stock is falling. He played poorly down the stretch vs quality opponents. Ruiz and probably Cushenberry have passed him up imo. I'd prefer either player to him.

Adams while talented has had two serious surgeries, an ACL and a back surgery. He's come through them well but that's a lot of down time and his durability has to be questioned. I'm not real comfortable entrusting those two prospects with a prominent role in finally restoring our OL to respectability.

was such a bad coach, having him gone has to be better. At least we wont see 10 yd cushions on 3 and 7.

I guess you have not committed the comprehensive plan I laid out in an earlier thread to memory yet.

So here is the short version

Address the #28 pass D in the NFL

FA

1. CB need a #1 shutdown corner to replace Jackrabbit. Sign one of the following:
Byron Jones/James Bradberry/Kendall Fuller

2. Deep Safety - too many deep passes completed against us last year
Sign one of the following to replace Bethea:
Devin McCourty/ Justin Simmons/ Anthony Harris

3. Moneybacker - Jettison Ogletree and sign the best pass covering ilb available
Corey Littleton/Joe Schobert/ Nick Kwiathoska

Draft

#2. ILB Patrick Queen - the fastest and best pass covering backer in college
#3. CB Lamar Jackson - will automatically become the biggest most physical corner on the team to match up with opposing team's big wr's.
#4. ER Anfernee Jennings - sets and holds the edge with good power and consistently garners tackles for loss

Coach up Lorenzo Carter and Ximine while seriously consider paying Williams and Golden

Upon reflection each level of the Defense has been addressed and hopefully improved while leaving enough FA money to buy a quality C and draft some talented OL and WR.

An improved offense will assist the D

In comment 14818049 djm said:

Quote:

Giants are going big game hunting for defensive help in UFA. I’d be shocked if they land at least one big name or two.

What are you talking about? UFA? What would shock you? Landing a big name or not? Try to read what you write before you submit.

In comment 14818073 ChicagoMarty said:

Quote:

I guess you have not committed the comprehensive plan I laid out in an earlier thread to memory yet. So here is the short version Address the #28 pass D in the NFL FA 1. CB need a #1 shutdown corner to replace Jackrabbit. Sign one of the following: Byron Jones/James Bradberry/Kendall Fuller 2. Deep Safety - too many deep passes completed against us last year Sign one of the following to replace Bethea: Devin McCourty/ Justin Simmons/ Anthony Harris 3. Moneybacker - Jettison Ogletree and sign the best pass covering ilb available Corey Littleton/Joe Schobert/ Nick Kwiathoska Draft #2. ILB Patrick Queen - the fastest and best pass covering backer in college #3. CB Lamar Jackson - will automatically become the biggest most physical corner on the team to match up with opposing team's big wr's. #4. ER Anfernee Jennings - sets and holds the edge with good power and consistently garners tackles for loss Coach up Lorenzo Carter and Ximine while seriously consider paying Williams and Golden Upon reflection each level of the Defense has been addressed and hopefully improved while leaving enough FA money to buy a quality C and draft some talented OL and WR. An improved offense will assist the D

Marty, I think your plan falls short at the ends and in the middle -- and what I'm really concerned with is pass rush. I do not see how your plan addresses this other than to provide for exactly what we already have, which fell well short of what we needed.

Fine; Bolster the Backfield; good idea. I like Queen, but I don't think he makes it out of the first round. You are adding multi tooled LBs in your Backfield heavy scheme - but no power at the Ends or for charging up behind our big men in front and up the middle.

If everyone can run around all day some of them are going to get open. Got to get pressure in the QBs face and also take him down before he can find an open man!!!

and losing relevance the way the game is played now

Most passes are thrown under 2.5 seconds.

If not the mobile qb is taking off running

We need speed at lb to cover TE's and Rb's in the short zones and to track the running QBs. Procuring one of the ilb's referenced above is doable imo. Adding Queen is also doable in the draft.

Every successful Defense has one shut down corner

We presently do not. This needs to be addressed.

We gave up way too many long passes due to a lack of speed and coverage ability in the deep zones. This can be addressed in FA

If our new coaching staff can coach up Baker, Beal and Ballentine we should improve against the opposing passing offensive #2,#3 and #4 wr's we will see

Jints have invested a lot in the interior DL. Time for the guys to step up and provide some pass pressure.

Lets see if Carter and X improve with different coaching and maturation

It would be nice to grab a quality ER but there are players out there at other positions that can immediately upgrade our pass D.

Lets not wring our hands about the lack of available ERs and make the most of what we can address and control.

NE won a SB two years ago without much of a pass rush but with a stellar back seven.

We can do the same

Secondary should be locked up with a strong FS (FA) and top notch corner(either draft or FA).

Connerly, Xmen and Carter need some improved coaching.....

They need to find a pass rush!

In comment 14818071 Torrag said:

Quote:

Biadasz stock is falling. He played poorly down the stretch vs quality opponents. Ruiz and probably Cushenberry have passed him up imo. I'd prefer either player to him. Adams while talented has had two serious surgeries, an ACL and a back surgery. He's come through them well but that's a lot of down time and his durability has to be questioned. I'm not real comfortable entrusting those two prospects with a prominent role in finally restoring our OL to respectability.

It would be a mistake to pass on Biadasz just like all the teams that passed on Ramcyk. He didn’t play poorly. He was the bright spot on an OL that was in transition.

Adams fits nicely because there won’t be pressure to start immediately. He can heal up and develop behind Solder this year and start in 21.

I think too many people are married to an OT in the 1st. If the Giants do nothing in FA at OT, then an early OT is likely since they’ll need at least a RT. But if they land Conklin, then I actually think there’s a good chance they pass on OT early. I don’t think they’ll be interested in spending a top 10 pick on a guy who may not play his rookie season.

i'd settle for building a strong offense this offseason and improving the defense the next couple offseasons

In comment 14818086 WillVAB said:

Quote:

I think too many people are married to an OT in the 1st. If the Giants do nothing in FA at OT, then an early OT is likely since they’ll need at least a RT. But if they land Conklin, then I actually think there’s a good chance they pass on OT early. I don’t think they’ll be interested in spending a top 10 pick on a guy who may not play his rookie season.

Will, no pun or alteration intended --- but I think Wills can start day one and be a good one (OT that is). As a pick he works down the road -- but it falls short of helping the defense.

In comment 14818081 ChicagoMarty said:

Quote:

and losing relevance the way the game is played now Most passes are thrown under 2.5 seconds. If not the mobile qb is taking off running We need speed at lb to cover TE's and Rb's in the short zones and to track the running QBs. Procuring one of the ilb's referenced above is doable imo. Adding Queen is also doable in the draft. Every successful Defense has one shut down corner We presently do not. This needs to be addressed. We gave up way too many long passes due to a lack of speed and coverage ability in the deep zones. This can be addressed in FA If our new coaching staff can coach up Baker, Beal and Ballentine we should improve against the opposing passing offensive #2,#3 and #4 wr's we will see Jints have invested a lot in the interior DL. Time for the guys to step up and provide some pass pressure. Lets see if Carter and X improve with different coaching and maturation It would be nice to grab a quality ER but there are players out there at other positions that can immediately upgrade our pass D. Lets not wring our hands about the lack of available ERs and make the most of what we can address and control. NE won a SB two years ago without much of a pass rush but with a stellar back seven. We can do the same

This is a losing model. The Pats are the only team to pull this off.

A pass rush may be “old school” but that’s what wins. The niners and Chiefs aren’t built off their secondary. You can pretty much rundown every quality team of the last 15 years and loaded secondaries are the exception.

In comment 14818081 ChicagoMarty said:

Quote:

and losing relevance the way the game is played now Most passes are thrown under 2.5 seconds. If not the mobile qb is taking off running We need speed at lb to cover TE's and Rb's in the short zones and to track the running QBs. Procuring one of the ilb's referenced above is doable imo. Adding Queen is also doable in the draft. Every successful Defense has one shut down corner We presently do not. This needs to be addressed. We gave up way too many long passes due to a lack of speed and coverage ability in the deep zones. This can be addressed in FA If our new coaching staff can coach up Baker, Beal and Ballentine we should improve against the opposing passing offensive #2,#3 and #4 wr's we will see Jints have invested a lot in the interior DL. Time for the guys to step up and provide some pass pressure. Lets see if Carter and X improve with different coaching and maturation It would be nice to grab a quality ER but there are players out there at other positions that can immediately upgrade our pass D. Lets not wring our hands about the lack of available ERs and make the most of what we can address and control. NE won a SB two years ago without much of a pass rush but with a stellar back seven. We can do the same

2.5 seconds? If this os so why do we need QB's that have good feet and can extend the play? that is the trend now. You have to get after the QB man.

I watched those final two games v ohio state and oregon. He got his ass handed to him in the first one and wasn't much better in the Rose Bowel. A poor Ramcyk comp (they don't even play the same position ) doesn't change the fact he looked stiff and not very mobile against higher quality opponents. That's what I saw anyway. Listen i don't think his Draft position is in a death spiral but if I'm using #36 on a OC he isn't my guy. For me he's more like in the 50-60 range.

Although it's not the way most teams try to win the Seahwaks also won with a lockdown secondary. That 'D' was all about the Legion of Boom.

In comment 14818091 gidiefor said:

Quote:

In comment 14818086 WillVAB said: Quote: I think too many people are married to an OT in the 1st. If the Giants do nothing in FA at OT, then an early OT is likely since they’ll need at least a RT. But if they land Conklin, then I actually think there’s a good chance they pass on OT early. I don’t think they’ll be interested in spending a top 10 pick on a guy who may not play his rookie season. Will, no pun or alteration intended --- but I think Wills can start day one and be a good one (OT that is). As a pick he works down the road -- but it falls short of helping the defense.

I don’t see the Giants paying Solder to sit on the bench. If the Giants pay up at RT in FA then they’ll prob wait until later in the draft to target a LT to push Solder.

In comment 14818096 Torrag said:

Quote:

I watched those final two games v ohio state and oregon. He got his ass handed to him in the first one and wasn't much better in the Rose Bowel. A poor Ramcyk comp (they don't even play the same position ) doesn't change the fact he looked stiff and not very mobile against higher quality opponents. That's what I saw anyway. Listen i don't think his Draft position is in a death spiral but if I'm using #36 on a OC he isn't my guy. For me he's more like in the 50-60 range.

I disagree. You aren’t going to change my mind and I’m obviously not going to change yours.

Personally I’d be pumped with the pick as the Giants would gain an instant quality starter at a need position.

I think that's the wrong mindset. What the Giants are probably thinking is it's Solder's last year with us. Let's address his replacement now. Any rookie is cost controlled anyway, at least compared to free agent LT's.

Personally I'll be surprised if the Giants don't use one of their first two picks on an OT. There are good options in both rounds. Wills/Thomas/Wirfs early and Jones/Jackson in the second.

not a dog? Oh that’s comical.

Either Jax tags him or his salary demands turn off NYG.

I decided to watch some Clowney highlight and boy is that guy a freak. He is an excellent edge setter and a top run stopper. Many are talking about needing a shut down corner, which is great, but how about setting an edge? We were horrible with that last year. Ximines was not good vs the Run. Carter was average and Golden was ok.

Not sure how much Clowney will get but there are worse players to invest in. He plays very hard and is strong

In comment 14818069 gidiefor said:

Quote:

In comment 14818059 MM_in_NYC said: Quote: the "not a dog" thing is dumbest thing i've read. not accusing you gidiefor of that directly. One of the problems with a jack of all trades coming from college to the NFL is that the learning curve is very steep. You need to have a real passion to grasp all the concepts that are asked of you. A young guy like Simmons could be put in the position of being asked to do too much because that's what he did in college. Or, if you ask him to only do a limited amount of things where the need is, you risk asking him to perform a steady diet of something that may not be as sexy as what he used to do and not take advantage of his purported versatility. Simmons makes me nervous. I do not know if he is NFL ready. He could be great and he could also fail to make the transition depending on his mentality. I can not get a sense of this with him at all.

sorry but that concern sounds exactly the same as any nfl player except simmons has a unique skill set therefore you exaggerate the potential for misfire based on it his being able to play multiple positions. it's not. your first concern is that he'll be asked to do too much. but that's a coaching problem not a simmons problem. what's not nfl ready about him? again that's a ambiguous concern masquerading as a specific condemnation of a particular attribute of simmon's play. he can cover, tackle, and blitz. he'll be a rookie like every other new player. need to get over the fear and draft what is obvious.

I still have a feeling we have a chance of trading down on gameday. If we go RT at say #6 and land an OC in round #2 and a DB (safety) as well, maybe we'll be in good shape as far as DB goes. We really need the young guys like Baker, Lawrence, Peppers, Love, Xines to step up and dominate.

***OVERALL PLAN:
Get 4 players in FA. Three on defense and 1 on offense.

OFFENSE:
1-- Hope GMEN can trade down and get Wills.
2-- Get a Center in FA.

DEFENSE
2a1-- Regarding 3-4 Defense-- LW is a target. Assume DG signs him.
2a2-- Regarding 3-4 Defense-- go after OLB Fowler.
2a3 -- Regarding 3-4 Defense-- go after ILB Littleton.

2b1-- Regarding 4-3 Defense-- LW is a target. Assume DG signs him.
2b2-- Regarding 4-3 Defense-- go after Jones DE from KC.
2b3-- Regarding 4-3 Defense-- go after an OLB that can cover better than a pass rusher. Vic Beasley. With Jones and our other three DL-- should be able to get a good enough pass rush. SO need more of a LB that can cover than a pass rusher.

MAIN OBSTACLE TO WINNING:

1--- BOTH OFFENSE and DEFENSE were main obstacles to winning. Must improve both.
Look at Analytics for teams that have made the Super Bowl. We'll find that every team except 1 (Seattle) had top 8 efficient offenses in all of football. Just can't look at defense. A few teams did NOT have top 8 defenses.

In comment 14818095 gidiefor said:

Quote:

In comment 14818081 ChicagoMarty said: Quote: and losing relevance the way the game is played now Most passes are thrown under 2.5 seconds. If not the mobile qb is taking off running We need speed at lb to cover TE's and Rb's in the short zones and to track the running QBs. Procuring one of the ilb's referenced above is doable imo. Adding Queen is also doable in the draft. Every successful Defense has one shut down corner We presently do not. This needs to be addressed. We gave up way too many long passes due to a lack of speed and coverage ability in the deep zones. This can be addressed in FA If our new coaching staff can coach up Baker, Beal and Ballentine we should improve against the opposing passing offensive #2,#3 and #4 wr's we will see Jints have invested a lot in the interior DL. Time for the guys to step up and provide some pass pressure. Lets see if Carter and X improve with different coaching and maturation It would be nice to grab a quality ER but there are players out there at other positions that can immediately upgrade our pass D. Lets not wring our hands about the lack of available ERs and make the most of what we can address and control. NE won a SB two years ago without much of a pass rush but with a stellar back seven. We can do the same 2.5 seconds? If this os so why do we need QB's that have good feet and can extend the play? that is the trend now. You have to get after the QB man.

I told him the same thing on his thread he created.

Is going to bust out and be a force this year you could see him coming on at the end of last season

Okudah in the first round and Zach Baun in the second.

Start the OL hunt in round 3.

In comment 14818110 MtDizzle said:

Quote:

not a dog? Oh that’s comical.

Simmons can lay the wood when he has to.

I love the player. Fast, good size.

In comment 14818147 BlueLou'sBack said:

Quote:

Okudah in the first round and Zach Baun in the second. Start the OL hunt in round 3.

How could they possibly wait till the NFL draft to address defensive needs? That is a scary situation to set yourself up for

In comment 14818131 giantstock said:

Quote:

I told him the same thing on his thread he created.

Lol -- giantstock - I love Marty -- he's a great friend of mine and we've spent time together at camp in Albany. He's the salt of the earth, and I would pound a few with him anytime and anywhere. He and I have been fighting over variations of his model now for 17 years, and in that time the names have changed but the model hasn't.

The Giants have won 4 super bowls -- 2 of which came after Marty advanced his speedy coverage models that I'm aware of (He may have advanced it even earlier than that. I'm only aware of the last 17 years). All four of the Giants' Lombardis were won up front with contributions from the backfield. Despite this, Marty would recommend heartily having 7-9 speedy CBs/Ss/Coverage LBs on the field rather than any pass rushers. I jokingly asked him once if he would like 11 speedy coverage guys out on the field playing defense. He hesitated only for a moment before endorsing that.

He's consistent - as am I -- lol -- it's been a long, long run

it's going to take longer than one more offseason, and when you look at the options available it's plain to see.

If Judge and his coaches can really make them multiple, then perhaps respectability comes sooner than expected. But, there's no impact talent at Edge, the DL and secondary are both young and unfinished.

I'm tired of the Simmons debate, the kid is not a physical beast, he's a run and chase player.

And will have to replace 3 vets Janoris ,FS and Ogletree. Expect a quality CB to stabilize secondary with all the youth. I would expect a FS and possibly LB too. Resign Golden and LW.

Only player somewhat expensive player in FA on O might be a Tackle or Center. Longer shot for a receiver (WR/TE) with new coaching staff potential slightly different philosophy on passing game.

These are all approximately the $6 mill a year or more signings. Not the $5 mill or less signings.

In comment 14818045 DonnieD89 said:

Quote:

Jadeveon Clowney. To me, he is not worth it, and I don’t want this to happen.

You don't have to worry about this. There is little to no chance Clowney comes here.

and spending big in free agency. I believe we'd be better served spending strategically in free agency, with nice bargains and let the draft come organically. If that means we cluster draft on D, fine, but I'd prefer we not just draft a position because we're weak there.

In comment 14818199 JonC said:

Quote:

it's going to take longer than one more offseason, and when you look at the options available it's plain to see. If Judge and his coaches can really make them multiple, then perhaps respectability comes sooner than expected. But, there's no impact talent at Edge, the DL and secondary are both young and unfinished. I'm tired of the Simmons debate, the kid is not a physical beast, he's a run and chase player.

i'm tired of the simmons debate too. but can't resist when people say things like "no dog" and "not physical beast".

on your hypothetical player evaluation card is there a box that says "physical beast" and if it doesn't get checked then you don't draft that player?

can you define physical beast for us? and then explain why this one aspect, as you define, is the sole most important factor to you for simmons?

and follow up: are bobby wagner, darius leonard, jaylon smith, and lavonte david "physical beasts", by your definition? what about tyrone mattheu, budda baker, justin simmons, and harrison smith? if so, how? all those lbs are not stack and shed and extraordinarily successful in today's nfl. and all of those safeties are not kam chancellor incarnate.

simmons is cross of skill sets of all of those players. "physical beast" is not the singular determinate of success.

and oh yeah, simmons is plenty physical. and so are those players i mentioned. they just meet the arbitrary definition of being pure stack and shed you are likely to mandate as necessary.

but not the condescension or snark, it's unwarranted. I don't disagree with how you present him in terms of a back seven talent to consider.

But, in a nutshell, at #4 overall I want more than a run and chase back seven player. I'm focused on building up front with premium resources. When I watch Simmons, he avoids contact, he stands around and watches it happen. It fries my circuits. I'd much rather trade down or hope like hell they really like one of the OTs to fill a more important hole, imo. Further, I really don't think he'll wind up being close to the fourth best prospect in this draft.

We're all tired of watching TEs roam free in the secondary, but it doesn't warrant burning a #4 overall pick, in my book. He's athletic and rare in that respect. But, impact and creating an attitude for a defense tends to come from up front and from the real dogs.

In comment 14818238 JonC said:

Quote:

but not the condescension or snark, it's unwarranted. I don't disagree with how you present him in terms of a back seven talent to consider. But, in a nutshell, at #4 overall I want more than a run and chase back seven player. I'm focused on building up front with premium resources. When I watch Simmons, he avoids contact, he stands around and watches it happen. It fries my circuits. I'd much rather trade down or hope like hell they really like one of the OTs to fill a more important hole, imo. Further, I really don't think he'll wind up being close to the fourth best prospect in this draft. We're all tired of watching TEs roam free in the secondary, but it doesn't warrant burning a #4 overall pick, in my book. He's athletic and rare in that respect. But, impact and creating an attitude for a defense tends to come from up front and from the real dogs.

Michael Boley wasn't a super physical player. Other qualities if they are high enough level can still give great value. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but I think Simmons is going to be a stud if utilized correctly.

In comment 14818238 JonC said:

Quote:

but not the condescension or snark, it's unwarranted. I don't disagree with how you present him in terms of a back seven talent to consider. But, in a nutshell, at #4 overall I want more than a run and chase back seven player. I'm focused on building up front with premium resources. When I watch Simmons, he avoids contact, he stands around and watches it happen. It fries my circuits. I'd much rather trade down or hope like hell they really like one of the OTs to fill a more important hole, imo. Further, I really don't think he'll wind up being close to the fourth best prospect in this draft. We're all tired of watching TEs roam free in the secondary, but it doesn't warrant burning a #4 overall pick, in my book. He's athletic and rare in that respect. But, impact and creating an attitude for a defense tends to come from up front and from the real dogs.

whatever tone you're picking up on is in response to the flippant nature of your dismissal of simmons and the opinions of him from those who can recognize his talent.

he's 6'4, ~230, runs sub 4.5, and led his team in tackles, tfl, and sacks, and was second in pds and interceptions.

that's pretty good for a guy who just "avoids contact, [and]... stands around and watches it happen"

i have to run now but if you want to substantiate your opinion then please respond to my previous post with the specific questions and comparisons i made. i believe your opinion on what it takes to be successful will not hold when you put pen to paper. or not, that's fine too, i get it - we're all busy.

We're looking for different things for this defense, it's that simple. I recognize the talent/positives in Simmons, but it doesn't fit what I'm looking for to rebuild this defense from the most precious resources we have, especially up front. I'm sticking to my philosophy of building up front, especially since we're a 3-4 base scheme, and I emphasize and prioritize up front accordingly.

No sense in spending the time addressing your framework of players as we see this philosophically in the opposite. I'm not spending #4 overall on said players either.

Yes, I'm extremely busy including an infant who's under the weather.

Mike, it's well known here I was not a fan of Boley either, and certainly wouldn't spend a #4 overall pick on him or similar.

but he's a different breed of talent as well, imo.

always have, it's just my strategy doesn't include prioritizing players like Simmons or Boley top 5 in the draft. YMMV.

In comment 14818238 JonC said:

Quote:

but not the condescension or snark, it's unwarranted. I don't disagree with how you present him in terms of a back seven talent to consider. But, in a nutshell, at #4 overall I want more than a run and chase back seven player. I'm focused on building up front with premium resources. When I watch Simmons, he avoids contact, he stands around and watches it happen. It fries my circuits. I'd much rather trade down or hope like hell they really like one of the OTs to fill a more important hole, imo. Further, I really don't think he'll wind up being close to the fourth best prospect in this draft. We're all tired of watching TEs roam free in the secondary, but it doesn't warrant burning a #4 overall pick, in my book. He's athletic and rare in that respect. But, impact and creating an attitude for a defense tends to come from up front and from the real dogs.

Said perfectly. I 100% agree with this.

will sign Clowney. It would go against what they are trying to turn around and they saw first hand what happened with Solder if you get desperate.

Clowney seems very up and down to me. Seems to miss 2-3 games every year and disappears too often.

is even an off ball LB. I see Cam Chancelor type upside. He has unique size but his best attributes are his coverage and speed. But I dont see him coming downhill through NFL guards to plug a hole.

He is versitle and more then likely a piece that would put a good defense over the top but not a centerpiece. I dont see the value at 4 for this team. Much the same way an Elite WR is a luxury we cant use the 4th pick on.

I would rather the Giants identify the best OL in the draft and take him. We should be able to have our pick. Trust the scouts to sort through the tape and measurables and pick the most impactfull guy for the OL.

Ngakoue is a must get. 24 years old and almost sure to get better as he comes into his prime years. Draft Derek Brown. Thats a scary Dline all of a sudden. Rush the passer and give the guys in the backfield some help. I'd also think hard about either Prince Amukamara or Devin McCourty. You have to have faith that Baker and Beal are going to continue to develop, but they could use help over the top and in the slot.

In comment 14818049 djm said:

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That the giants use FA to address the defense, primarily, and the draft for with an eye toward OL. The defense has very little long term veteran money allocated anywhere. It also needs veteran leadership and plug and play talent. The OL has one, maybe two young guys to build around and this draft is deep in OL talent. Giants are going big game hunting for defensive help in UFA. I’d be shocked if they land at least one big name or two.

Agree. though taking Simmons would be nice to go along with 2 big FA signings.

In comment 14818076 Ivan15 said:

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In comment 14818049 djm said: Quote: Giants are going big game hunting for defensive help in UFA. I’d be shocked if they land at least one big name or two. What are you talking about? UFA? What would shock you? Landing a big name or not? Try to read what you write before you submit.

I fixed my typo one post later. I’d be shocked if they didn’t land 1-2 FAs on defense.

You used the reply to quote feature incorrectly.

In comment 14818170 CromartiesKid21 said:

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In comment 14818147 BlueLou'sBack said: Quote: Okudah in the first round and Zach Baun in the second. Start the OL hunt in round 3. How could they possibly wait till the NFL draft to address defensive needs? That is a scary situation to set yourself up for

I am assuming they'd sign Williams and another defender like Littleton or re-sign Golden and/or a safety like Harris.

In comment 14818045 DonnieD89 said:

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Jadeveon Clowney. To me, he is not worth it, and I don’t want this to happen. With that said, I do think that they have a chance of getting Zack Baun in the 2nd round. I think he could be that Edge that the Giants need. I do hope that X man and Carter can be coached up. That would be a big deal for the Giants defense.

We might end up with 1 whole sack between him and LW!