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Isaiah Simmons raced RB Travis Etienne....

Britt in VA : 2/25/2020 9:40 am
This is impressive.

Quote:

The Checkdown
@thecheckdown
Clemson LB Isaiah Simmons raced RB Travis Etienne and matched him step-for-step
@isaiahsimmons25

@ClemsonFB


Quote:
Dan Schneier
@DanSchneierNFL
·
9h
He’s an excellent football player already (with obvious room to improve given age and experience).
But Isaiah Simmons is also a generational athlete. Think Devin Bush from last draft, but a better athlete.
The #Giants defense — check that — team — needs a prospect like this.



Link - ( New Window )
Wouldn’t mind him here at all,  
Big Blue '56 : 2/25/2020 9:48 am : link
no matter how is talents are utilized.
If Chase Young isn't an option, I think I'd prefer him over Okudah.  
Britt in VA : 2/25/2020 9:51 am : link
from a need vs. value standpoint.

I'd love to have a stud linebacker in here. Been a while. Centerpiece to the defense.
Seems like 1 of those three is a lock for us.  
Britt in VA : 2/25/2020 9:51 am : link
.
RE: If Chase Young isn't an option, I think I'd prefer him over Okudah.  
KDavies : 2/25/2020 9:53 am : link
In comment 14818315 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
from a need vs. value standpoint.

I'd love to have a stud linebacker in here. Been a while. Centerpiece to the defense.


I'd take either Simmons or Okudah. I disagree with those calling to trade down to the Raiders for a 12 and 19 or whatever. If you trade down, do it a spot or two and pick up a premium player.
The Giants could use Simmons...  
BamaBlue : 2/25/2020 9:54 am : link
as an OLB, or a Strong Safety. I'm good with the Giants picking Simmons at #4 if Young and Okudah are gone. I do think Simmons is a great target if the Giants move down a few spots.
Did he say "generational"  
LBH15 : 2/25/2020 9:56 am : link
athlete?
still not enamored with how much of a finesse player he is  
Greg from LI : 2/25/2020 9:56 am : link
He really doesn't shed blockers well at all.
RE: The Giants could use Simmons...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/25/2020 9:57 am : link
In comment 14818320 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
as an OLB, or a Strong Safety. I'm good with the Giants picking Simmons at #4 if Young and Okudah are gone. I do think Simmons is a great target if the Giants move down a few spots.


I like the idea of moving down to 7-8 range and getting Simmons
Looks like Travis  
KeoweeFan : 2/25/2020 9:57 am : link
bumped into the starter and lost half a step.
But close enough to impress me, and I was already an Isaiah fan!
No data supports this  
Jim in Forest Hills : 2/25/2020 9:58 am : link
but I have no interest in a tweener like Simmons. If you told me he was clearly the best inside LB that could also play FS if he wanted too? Then maybe. I like the flexibility but I want that to be in addition to this player being the best at his respective spot.
RE: RE: The Giants could use Simmons...  
Britt in VA : 2/25/2020 9:58 am : link
In comment 14818326 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14818320 BamaBlue said:


Quote:


as an OLB, or a Strong Safety. I'm good with the Giants picking Simmons at #4 if Young and Okudah are gone. I do think Simmons is a great target if the Giants move down a few spots.



I like the idea of moving down to 7-8 range and getting Simmons


I'd sign up for that, too. 6th as well.
RE: still not enamored with how much of a finesse player he is  
Metnut : 2/25/2020 9:59 am : link
In comment 14818325 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
He really doesn't shed blockers well at all.


That's what all those slow hog mollies up front do. We need players that complement each other and given the way our DL is structured, Simmons would be a great fit.

TEs and other short routes up the middle have been crushing us on third downs for years. Simmons is the answer to that.
Can he add 10-20 pounds  
Ben in Tampa : 2/25/2020 10:01 am : link
up to around 240/250 and not lose any of his game? That's the question for me.

I am really enamored with his freak potential, and having a hell raiser who can be all over the field... but I get worried about his size. A little too big for safety, a little too small for OLB.
I’m a big fan, is he really like Devin Bush?  
barens : 2/25/2020 10:04 am : link
Two completely different body types there.
RE: Can he add 10-20 pounds  
Britt in VA : 2/25/2020 10:08 am : link
In comment 14818337 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
up to around 240/250 and not lose any of his game? That's the question for me.

I am really enamored with his freak potential, and having a hell raiser who can be all over the field... but I get worried about his size. A little too big for safety, a little too small for OLB.


It's a good question. I'd think with an NFL Strength Program he should be able to add about 10-15 LB's of muscle to that frame. He's already 6'4, but get him up closer to 245 and he could be a monster.
What an absurd comparison  
Joey in VA : 2/25/2020 10:11 am : link
To Devin Bush. Bush is a compact, run stuffing machine. This is a person who is paid for his opinions and he really made that comparison??? Per Sy56 last year on Bush....

The short, but stout enforcer is the kind of player that can immediately change the personality of a defense. Don’t be fooled by the lack of height when diagnosing his size and presence, as he is big where it matters and is often the most physical player on the field. Bush is a three down linebacker that will have to prove he is healthy and durable, but there is almost no risk with him. He is going to be a stud.

*I am still going to label Bush as a top 10 player in this class and while I know he won’t be the pick at #6, he would in the discussion if it were up to me. Sometimes guys with a lack of stereotypical size are mistaken for a lack of physical presence and power, but Bush might be the most physical one of the bunch. NYG has struggled with consistent LB play for a long time and I’ve had many debates whether or not premium picks should be spent on this spot, but I think it is being proven over and over a guy like this can change an entire defense right away.
I honestly believe Isaiah Simmons could be a top SS as a rookie  
SGMen : 2/25/2020 10:11 am : link
and a "rover" playing LB at times as well. We'd mix and match up with Peppers at the LOS giving us two great short area cover guys.

RE: No data supports this  
k2tampa : 2/25/2020 10:12 am : link
In comment 14818329 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
but I have no interest in a tweener like Simmons. If you told me he was clearly the best inside LB that could also play FS if he wanted too? Then maybe. I like the flexibility but I want that to be in addition to this player being the best at his respective spot.

First, this isn't 1990. The NFL isn't relying on 250 pound linebackers anymore. Today's NFL is speed and flexibility. Second, he won the Butkus Award as the nation's top linebacker. For how many years have we been screaming for a LB who can cover tight ends?
RE: RE: If Chase Young isn't an option, I think I'd prefer him over Okudah.  
Ira : 2/25/2020 10:19 am : link
In comment 14818319 KDavies said:
Quote:


I disagree with those calling to trade down to the Raiders for a 12 and 19 or whatever. If you trade down, do it a spot or two and pick up a premium player.


I agree. There are a few premium non-qb's in the draft. IMO, they are Young, Simmons, Okudah and Wills. If we do as you suggested and trade down a spot or two, we can still get one of them.
I'm pretty excited for this draft....  
Britt in VA : 2/25/2020 10:21 am : link
for the sole reason that we don't need a QB and the QB frenzy is going to push one of those 4 premium players to us in one way, shape, or form.
Amazing everyone screams about it being a passing league  
blueblood : 2/25/2020 10:21 am : link
running backs who can catch and line up in the slot, super mobile Qb's, teams playing three wide over 50% of the time. more and more teams playing basketball on grass and exploiting defenses..

yet a player comes along on defense that is big.. fast.. and can cover... but NO we dont want that..
Think about this....  
Britt in VA : 2/25/2020 10:25 am : link
If Baker develops into a solid 1st round talent at QB:

1st level: Lawrence and Willams
2nd level: Simmons
3rd level: Baker and Peppers

That's some nice talent on every level of the defense. Some saavy veteran move and good coaching and we could have something there.
As much as I like Okudah  
Mike in NY : 2/25/2020 10:25 am : link
And think he is the 2nd best non-QB in this draft, I am increasingly thinking that a trade down is the way to go as long as Chase Young isn't on the board and we are not trading down a ridiculous amount because I still want to be in range to grab Wills, Wirfs, Bechton, Okudah, or Simmons
CB, not QB.  
Britt in VA : 2/25/2020 10:25 am : link
obviously.
Media still pushing Simmons and Okudah  
ghost718 : 2/25/2020 10:30 am : link
With no signs of slowing down

I mentioned Okudah's agent is Rich Paul.I wonder who's representing Simmons.
RE: What an absurd comparison  
barens : 2/25/2020 10:31 am : link
In comment 14818350 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
To Devin Bush. Bush is a compact, run stuffing machine. This is a person who is paid for his opinions and he really made that comparison??? Per Sy56 last year on Bush....

The short, but stout enforcer is the kind of player that can immediately change the personality of a defense. Don’t be fooled by the lack of height when diagnosing his size and presence, as he is big where it matters and is often the most physical player on the field. Bush is a three down linebacker that will have to prove he is healthy and durable, but there is almost no risk with him. He is going to be a stud.

*I am still going to label Bush as a top 10 player in this class and while I know he won’t be the pick at #6, he would in the discussion if it were up to me. Sometimes guys with a lack of stereotypical size are mistaken for a lack of physical presence and power, but Bush might be the most physical one of the bunch. NYG has struggled with consistent LB play for a long time and I’ve had many debates whether or not premium picks should be spent on this spot, but I think it is being proven over and over a guy like this can change an entire defense right away.


I agree with you, and that was my first thought, but I will say if there is one area they are both really good at, is timing there blitzes. But other than that, I just don't get the comparison.
okudah all day over simmons  
GiantsFan84 : 2/25/2020 10:34 am : link
First reason is positional value. CB is simply more important and all the reports are he's the best CB to come out in the last 5 years

Second, Simmons is a tweener. And those guys are not good pros. Shaq Thompson was a STUD in college. Superstar LB and RB, but he was a tweener between LB and S. It matters. Instincts at LB matter and Simmons doesn't have a lot of experience there.

Third, Simmons seems to be best as a run and chase LB. And I don't think this 3-4 / multiple scheme is going to be that. Patrick Graham is not some defensive mastermind.

Take the shut down corner all day over this guy.
The Giants defense is so desperate for Isaiah Simmons  
M.S. : 2/25/2020 10:34 am : link

and 4 other new play-makers as well.

RE: Did he say  
micky : 2/25/2020 10:41 am : link
In comment 14818324 LBH15 said:
Quote:
athlete?


Yes giants already have one, in fact, a touch of God one
I think the Okudah  
Joey in VA : 2/25/2020 10:42 am : link
Move would be bad, we still can't protect our QB, #4 has to be Wills or Becton, it just has to be.
To me Simmons makes a bunch of sense at 4  
Rjanyg : 2/25/2020 10:42 am : link
Assuming we do something in free agency with the OT position. Could wait until 2nd round to get Jackson.
RE: Can he add 10-20 pounds  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/25/2020 10:47 am : link
In comment 14818337 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
up to around 240/250 and not lose any of his game? That's the question for me.

I am really enamored with his freak potential, and having a hell raiser who can be all over the field... but I get worried about his size. A little too big for safety, a little too small for OLB.

I think you might be hung up on some outdated size requirements. There's a fair number of LBs in the NFL playing at a similar size to Simmons' listed height/weight.

Of course if a player can put on muscle without losing any athleticism, speed, flexibility, etc. (or increasing injury risk), that would be better. But I don't think Simmons is completely in tweener territory as/is unless he measures smaller at the combine.
RE: I think the Okudah  
GFAN52 : 2/25/2020 11:10 am : link
In comment 14818377 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Move would be bad, we still can't protect our QB, #4 has to be Wills or Becton, it just has to be.


If not in the 1st rd, then it better be in FA plus with a 2nd rd pick. The Giants need a starting RT and a future LT to come out of this draft. Can't be wasting anymore wear and tear on Barkley's career and Jones health.
RE: RE: I think the Okudah  
Danny Dimes : 2/25/2020 11:26 am : link
In comment 14818411 GFAN52 said:
Quote:
In comment 14818377 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


Move would be bad, we still can't protect our QB, #4 has to be Wills or Becton, it just has to be.



If not in the 1st rd, then it better be in FA plus with a 2nd rd pick. The Giants need a starting RT and a future LT to come out of this draft. Can't be wasting anymore wear and tear on Barkley's career and Jones health.


I definitely feel more comfortable with a guarentee premium pick vs reaching for a position of need, did Flowers not teach you guys anything?
RE: RE: RE: I think the Okudah  
KDavies : 2/25/2020 11:31 am : link
In comment 14818432 Danny Dimes said:
Quote:
In comment 14818411 GFAN52 said:


Quote:


In comment 14818377 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


Move would be bad, we still can't protect our QB, #4 has to be Wills or Becton, it just has to be.



If not in the 1st rd, then it better be in FA plus with a 2nd rd pick. The Giants need a starting RT and a future LT to come out of this draft. Can't be wasting anymore wear and tear on Barkley's career and Jones health.



I definitely feel more comfortable with a guarentee premium pick vs reaching for a position of need, did Flowers not teach you guys anything?


I completely agree with not reaching for a position of need, but I sincerely hope you aren't comparing Wills to Flowers.
I wouldn’t mind him being our choice  
Giant John : 2/25/2020 11:36 am : link
Very effective pass rusher too.
Okudah at 4  
uther99 : 2/25/2020 12:11 pm : link
or trade down a couple slots and get Simmons or Wills

This assumes Young is off the board.

I don't like Simmons at 4.
This is the kind of stuff that bothers me  
Sy'56 : 2/25/2020 12:12 pm : link
Like watching a prospect back flip ? Jump out of a pool?

All that stuff...who cares. We know he is fast. The question with him revolves around taking on blocks, playing through contact, beating good pass blockers 1 on 1, covering tight ends/backs/WRs in man coverage.

You don't find that out by watching him run in a straight line with shorts and a cutoff tee.
RE: I think the Okudah  
bw in dc : 2/25/2020 12:25 pm : link
In comment 14818377 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Move would be bad, we still can't protect our QB, #4 has to be Wills or Becton, it just has to be.


After all the investments we made in corner the last two drafts, it would indeed be a waste to invest in another corner. If we can't find competent, reliable corners from that group that DG drafted than it's more reason to part ways with DG...

Ya'll are getting derrick brown  
Prude : 2/25/2020 12:27 pm : link
And you're gonna like it :>
RE: RE: I think the Okudah  
uther99 : 2/25/2020 1:01 pm : link
In comment 14818514 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14818377 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


Move would be bad, we still can't protect our QB, #4 has to be Wills or Becton, it just has to be.



After all the investments we made in corner the last two drafts, it would indeed be a waste to invest in another corner. If we can't find competent, reliable corners from that group that DG drafted than it's more reason to part ways with DG...


Teams need 3 corners on the field often. Ballentine is a 6th rounder. Beal has had durability issues. The existing CBs do not block drafting Okudah
Isaiah is a pure speed playmaker  
Torrag : 2/25/2020 1:33 pm : link
he's not fast. he's really fast. And he's long. Really long. He's a mismatch waiting to be exploited by a smart defensive coordinator. If we pick him at #4 I'll be satisfied we're getting an elite talent.
I’ve come around on Simmons  
JoeyBigBlue : 2/25/2020 1:53 pm : link
The kid is great in pass protection and flies all over the field. An instant playmaker on a defense that desperately needs one. My ideal situation would be trading down to 5 or 6 and picking him up.
RE: RE: Can he add 10-20 pounds  
Nine-Tails : 2/25/2020 4:20 pm : link
In comment 14818384 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14818337 Ben in Tampa said:


Quote:


up to around 240/250 and not lose any of his game? That's the question for me.

I am really enamored with his freak potential, and having a hell raiser who can be all over the field... but I get worried about his size. A little too big for safety, a little too small for OLB.


I think you might be hung up on some outdated size requirements. There's a fair number of LBs in the NFL playing at a similar size to Simmons' listed height/weight.

Of course if a player can put on muscle without losing any athleticism, speed, flexibility, etc. (or increasing injury risk), that would be better. But I don't think Simmons is completely in tweener territory as/is unless he measures smaller at the combine.


Definitely. Look at guys like Deion Jones, Darius Leonard, Bush
RE: still not enamored with how much of a finesse player he is  
Mr. Bungle : 2/25/2020 5:10 pm : link
In comment 14818325 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
He really doesn't shed blockers well at all.

He doesn't hit like a truck, either.
RE: Think about this....  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/25/2020 6:33 pm : link
In comment 14818359 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
If Baker develops into a solid 1st round talent at QB:

1st level: Lawrence and Willams
2nd level: Simmons
3rd level: Baker and Peppers

That's some nice talent on every level of the defense. Some saavy veteran move and good coaching and we could have something there.


This is a really odd post. I think a lot of people on BBI might agree with you. But you completely miss the fact that Dalvin Tomlinson was the Giants best DL last year, and that was at the NT position more than than anyone else, where he played more often against double teams.

Just cause he was a 2nd round pick doesn't make him a 2nd tier player.
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