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Is there enough discussion about...Derrick Brown - DT/Auburn

Sy'56 : 2/25/2020 12:39 pm
I won't be diving too deep in to prediction posts until April - when I start posting the position previews and grades - but the little I do get on here right now I see most talk revolving around Okudah / Simmons / Young / OTs. All very good prospects...but does the current NYG DT situation cause a reason to stay away from a player that could very much end up being the highest graded player in the entire class?

Derrick Brown would have been top 15 last year - and his 2019 tape was on a completely different level. He lost some weight and played with as much twitch and explosion as any DT in the class. He is the definition of an every down threat. A guy that can get you 8-10 sacks per year, 16-20 pressures per year, while providing top shelf run defense.

Dexter Lawrence + Derrick Brown + Dalvin Tomlinson + (maybe) Leonard Williams gives NYG a rotation of DL that very few in the NFL could match. And the thing about getting a DL like that - it makes other players better. The LBs, CBs, edge guys...they get elevated with a dominant front.

If NYG didn't want to re-sign Williams - they could go get a top shelf edge rusher or cornerback with the money and the DL still has a dominant outlook.

In no way and I saying this will happen - but I don't think the possibility is being discussed enough. He has a good chance at being the top, or number 2, graded player in the class and he should be there at 4.
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Thanks for pointing this out Sy  
gidiefor : Mod : 2/25/2020 1:00 pm : link
I will check him out -- from the limited tape I looked at he's big and fast, plays with a lot of power, and he generates turnovers

do the Giants defy convention and just keep stocking up the DLine?

He plays End and coverage sometimes and seems to play well in space when he does that.
It's been discussed in certain pockets of threads...  
bw in dc : 2/25/2020 1:03 pm : link
Brown is a very good DT prospect. But considering what we need most on defense, a, edge FINISHER, Brown doesn't really bring enough. If he was Aaron Donald-ish, it would be more compelling.

But Brown's career high in sacks was 4.5 at Auburn. Donald had 11 sacks at Pittsburgh 2X. So I just don't see the finishing ability we desperately need...
If he can play DE in a 3-4 effectively  
JonC : 2/25/2020 1:05 pm : link
and LW is gone, and they continue to deploy more 4-man fronts than 3-man then it makes sense. But, if they're looking at more 3-man fronts then I'm looking for longer, more explosive athletes like SF's studs.
Brown has the same sort of explosive force as Fletcher Cox  
Jim from Katonah : 2/25/2020 1:05 pm : link
An explosive burst of power that can’t be measured by the bench press — he can discard huge lineman unlike anyone I’ve seen in a while. I’d love to get him at 4. Maybe that creates a surplus at DT, but a creative DC can turn that into a plus.
D Brown is a handful on the defensive line  
LBH15 : 2/25/2020 1:06 pm : link
Plays a lot on the other side of the line of scrimmage. Should be a very good pro.

But as bullet posted above, D-line investments at this point really need to be Edge investments with assumption Leonard Williams is coming on board.
What mphbullet said.  
Red Dog : 2/25/2020 1:07 pm : link
And I would add that Center is also a desperate need for the GIANTS - arguably their single BIGGEST need as they really have NO ONE who is even an average NFL Center on the roster, plus last year's starter is coming back from a serious injury. The cupboard is bare at this very important position.

Contrary to popular opinion, drafting is NOT about getting the best players available every year because that can lead to gross positional imbalance, and because even the best players are not typically way, way better than the guys that they are going up against. Or in other words, Lawrence Taylor only comes along once in a generation.

Drafting IS all about getting the RIGHT MIX of the best players available to build a winning TEAM.
RE: RE: I am a strong believer of positional value  
mphbullet36 : 2/25/2020 1:08 pm : link
In comment 14818572 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 14818562 mphbullet36 said:


Quote:


Unless Brown comes in and has a Aaron Donald type impact the value just isn't there for a couple reasons.

I think the whole point is that some regard him as having Aaron Donald type talent, ergo his consideration with a top five pick.


I understand the thought process behind it. But it would just be too difficult an assumption to make IMO to peg someone as a generational interior pass rusher. He simply can't just be stout on the run to be a top 5 pick at that position. He would literally need to avg 8-10 sacks a season to make him worthy of a pick that high because of the position he plays.

It's how you build a roster because guy who are any good at certain positions don't make it to FA. QB, LT, and edge rusher. Those are why those positions get invested to early in drafts.

If you are picking interior offensive or defensive lineman they have to be way and above the rest of the field due to the impact and $$$ it cost to commit to those positions. The same goes for RB and WR. You can make the argument that its much easier to build a team around an very giidoffensive line and find good skill position players than it is to continue to build around elite skill position players and a mediocre to poor offensive line.

Same can be used for interior DL vs edge rushers. I think its better to find good to very good edge rushers...then bank on drafting a generational interior DL because if that guy isn't generational the value and $$$ committed to him just aren't worth it.

+ we we be devaluing a position we already have invested a lot of draft equity in.
I think the biggest reason it doesnt get talked about  
Danny Dimes : 2/25/2020 1:09 pm : link
Is because if the trade for Williams. The thought of letting him go makes giving away an early 3rd and 4th hurt. Hopefully DG can work some magic and brings some value from this trade
mph  
JonC : 2/25/2020 1:10 pm : link
Strong posts, made the positional/value/investment point I've tried to make.
At some point we have to use top draft stock at other positions  
Rudy5757 : 2/25/2020 1:11 pm : link
seems like we spend a 1st, 2nd or 3rd on a DT every year and then dont resign them and on top of that we already spent a 3rd because of the LW trade.

If he is head and shoulders above the rest then yes make the pick because the goal is to get better but at some point we have to fill the rest of the roster.

If we dont sign LW then I think this option becomes more viable but 2 years in a row on a 1st round DT is a lot of stock for a team with so many needs.
RE: If I am not mistaken,  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/25/2020 1:13 pm : link
In comment 14818575 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Wills blocked Brown fairly well so where does that leave Wills?

R.J. McIntosh ragdolled Quenton Nelson pretty well and look where their careers have gone. I don't know that you can make a definitive case based on a single game, though Wills is obviously a very good prospect in his own right.
SY  
Earl the goat : 2/25/2020 1:14 pm : link
I remember last year you had Derrick Brown nose to nose with Quinnen Williams. And you and I discussed that in a thread. I thought Brown was the better player

This year I think Brown is the top Defensive player in this class. Better than Young and Okudah

BTW. We also discussed Becton a few months ago
I do think he’s the best LT in this class
Sy'56...  
M.S. : 2/25/2020 1:16 pm : link

...very interesting comments regarding Derrick Brown.

I've watched every video I could find about this young man and I come away with the following impressions:

(1) His build reminds me so much of #70 Leonard Marshall -- the same thick-set physique, but even larger. A lot larger;

(2) He has an unstoppable bull rush -- sometimes it just seems unfair to the O-Lineman;

(3) But he so much more than a bull-rusher. He has got so many tricks in his bag, starting with the ability to extend his arms, neutralizing his opponent at the snap. And, then, he pretends he's just dancing until he sees where the play is going and then he tosses lineman aside like a bean bag;

(4) And just when you think he's coming at you square up in close quarters, he takes a lightning half step to one side, slicing through the hole before the lineman can latch on;

(5) When Derrick Brown arrives at the ball, it is over. Quickly. To paraphrase from the 1960 hit-song, "Alley Oop," he's a "mean motor scooter and a bad go-getter."

Derrick Brown is one scary dude. A house-wrecker. I've got no problem taking him at #4!
I started a thread a while ago about this  
armstead98 : 2/25/2020 1:18 pm : link
If he's the clear BPA, I don't have any issue with it. The Eagles stocked up on DL talent for years and it won them a superbowl.

Sure, interior isn't as valuable as edge but it's right up there.

Dexter Lawrence and Derrick Brown would be the best DT combo in the league. It should be easy to fill in the defense behind them.

Sign me up.
Brown reminds  
Carl in CT : 2/25/2020 1:18 pm : link
Me of another Brown that played for the “U”.
Take this for what it’s worth ...  
Spider56 : 2/25/2020 1:19 pm : link
In mid December I’m talking with a guy while watching the Giants in our local sports bar ... he tells me his father is a regional scout with the Giants and he was responsible for several of the Giants top picks the last couple of years ... his info was don’t be surprised if they do indeed take a DT this year, they had 1 already rated higher than Dexter Lawrence.
RE: Take this for what it’s worth ...  
Jim from Katonah : 2/25/2020 1:29 pm : link
In comment 14818607 Spider56 said:
Quote:
In mid December I’m talking with a guy while watching the Giants in our local sports bar ... he tells me his father is a regional scout with the Giants and he was responsible for several of the Giants top picks the last couple of years ... his info was don’t be surprised if they do indeed take a DT this year, they had 1 already rated higher than Dexter Lawrence.


Building the defense around Lawrence and Brown — two powerful guys who also have movement ability — may have a great impact on other defensive positions — maybe will allow them to play faster, more agile edge guys and linebackers and out DTs can plug AND chase.
I posted just the other day that he's definitely in the mix for me  
Torrag : 2/25/2020 1:29 pm : link
Is he for the Giants? I have no idea.
He's really really good  
Heisenberg : 2/25/2020 1:33 pm : link
Stockpiling assets on the Dline make sense. He will be a really good pro.
LW will get signed  
bc4life : 2/25/2020 2:01 pm : link
Tomlinson should get extended. The issue should not just be if Brown has a higher grade - bur are there players with a high enough grade to take at 4 or trade down. For a team so desperate for OL and LB atylent - taking Brown makes no sense
I am not against this at all  
blueblood : 2/25/2020 2:06 pm : link
and I would be perfectly ok with it..
Didn't the Jets do this a few years ago when they drafted Williams?  
ZogZerg : 2/25/2020 2:17 pm : link
..
I watch a lot of Auburn as wife is a fan..  
KDavies : 2/25/2020 2:17 pm : link
Brown is a great player. My reservations are that he isn't Donald level in terms of pass rush ability and #4 may be a little high for me due to that and the fact that there are similarly skilled players at positions of need.

If they draft him with the other players that should be available, that means the Giants absolutely love him. Despite Gettleman's mistakes, he has been right about his high draft picks.
Given that there's a new coaching staff in place,  
barens : 2/25/2020 3:00 pm : link
I would definitely think he'd be in play.
49er Defense  
Samiam : 2/25/2020 3:01 pm : link
Not saying we should do this but if you look at how the 49ers were built, they put a lot of resources on their DL. Of course, it helps they picked up a lineman like Bosa.
RE: 49er Defense  
KDavies : 2/25/2020 3:07 pm : link
In comment 14818716 Samiam said:
Quote:
Not saying we should do this but if you look at how the 49ers were built, they put a lot of resources on their DL. Of course, it helps they picked up a lineman like Bosa.


The difference is the 49ers had some more passrushers in the mix. The Giants getting Brown is a lot different than a Chase Young or a Bosa.
I have  
PaulN : 2/25/2020 3:58 pm : link
All along this must be a strong option, I even tried to compare it to when we took Banks, we were loaded at linebacker, had other needs and still grabbed Banks. Brown would be a DT/DE in this defense, line up with him and Williams inside on passing downs and it could create havoc, people here can't get past the position and so called need aspect, dominating the line of scrimmage inside would be the quickest way to the QB and relavence.
Definitely been discussed..  
Jim in Forest Hills : 2/25/2020 4:05 pm : link
Had a similar post a few days ago..
Link - ( New Window )
I think that if we re-sign Williams, we pass on Brown  
Ira : 2/25/2020 4:05 pm : link
.
Sy do you think Brown will wind up grading out higher than Williams?  
Strahan91 : 2/25/2020 4:09 pm : link
Believe Leonard Williams was your top rated player in the 2015 draft. Probably not all that relevant but I'm curious
RE: I think that if we re-sign Williams, we pass on Brown  
bw in dc : 2/25/2020 4:16 pm : link
In comment 14818838 Ira said:
Quote:
.


Assuming Brown would be in the picture...

I'd rather eat the draft picks and let LW walk, draft Brown, and re-sign Golden and sign Quinn.
what  
cjac : 2/25/2020 4:28 pm : link
linebackers?

which is why i want Simmons
RE: LW will get signed  
Milton : 2/25/2020 4:36 pm : link
In comment 14818648 bc4life said:
Quote:
Tomlinson should get extended.
I don't see Tomlinson getting extended. He's a good player, but he will be the victim of numbers. Other teams will value him more based on need and his agent knows that.
Brown’s Linemate at Auburn  
Mark in ATL : 2/25/2020 5:12 pm : link
I have a feeling Brown’s linemate Marlon Davidson will go in the 2nd or 3rd round, also. Auburn had a very talented DL this past year.
Brown  
John formerly in CharlotteNC : 2/25/2020 5:22 pm : link
I may be a little biased here, however, I had the pleasure of watching Derrick Brown in HS. Lanier HS here in Buford, GA. I work with the varsity team here. Not only was he a beast at DT, but they also utilized him in the red zone as a TE, where he used his skills from basketball to catch more than few TDs.

His character is unquestionable, as he is very well respected in the community here. I would be more than happy to see him on the Giants.
Thank you  
Bill2 : 2/25/2020 7:25 pm : link
John
If I'm Gettleman  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/25/2020 7:49 pm : link
I'm strongly considering drafting Brown, keeping Williams, and trying to trade Tomlinson before the draft for a high/mid 3rd round pick. Dexter goes to the nose, Brown and LW on the bookends, the rest of the draft is restored from the LW trade by getting the 3rd round pick back for Tomlinson.
RE: If I'm Gettleman  
bw in dc : 2/25/2020 8:00 pm : link
In comment 14819105 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
I'm strongly considering drafting Brown, keeping Williams, and trying to trade Tomlinson before the draft for a high/mid 3rd round pick. Dexter goes to the nose, Brown and LW on the bookends, the rest of the draft is restored from the LW trade by getting the 3rd round pick back for Tomlinson.


The problem with that, IMV, is there is a very good chance Brown is better over the C than DL. So you wouldn't be optimizing Brown and putting DL in the wrong spot.

If you want to keep LW, which I don't, I'd rather draft Javon Kinlaw.
.  
Bill2 : 2/25/2020 8:01 pm : link
yep.

or you go 4-3 more often and blitz more often

or you put a 340 pound Lawrence out wide on some plays to force keeping a TE in.

or you make it ridiculously hard for Dallas to run or send their TE out. Be fun to beat those guys

any player that combines to make an asymmetrical difference is a potential pick at 4

our own Fletcher Cox for a few years ? Ok I can watch that.

Imo, this only becomes possible with a FA center and OT
The issues with targeting Brown as the guy to draft  
LBH15 : 2/25/2020 8:06 pm : link
are plentiful. While uber-talented, you almost have to talk yourself into drafting him because of how many other needs there are on this team, the investments made on the DL already and ol' Leonard sitting out there as well.

Offensive Tackle needs a solution and if this is not addressed this offseason (free agency and/or draft) then the next decade of NY Giant football will kick off much like the last decade ended.
I'd  
AcidTest : 2/25/2020 10:03 pm : link
be surprised if we took him, but if he's far and away the BPA, then it's fine.
Im a huge propenent of him. I'd put him in same class as Okudah and  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/25/2020 10:08 pm : link
Young, just I'd have Okudah and Young ahead strictly on positional value and contract. If we sign Leonard Williams I think you have to pass. I'm big time BPA propenent, but he plays a lesser positional value position and we already have a bunch of similar guys that are pretty good but prob not as good as he will be. Total monster, adds some pressure but definetly not a sack guy.
RE: It's been discussed in certain pockets of threads...  
MeadowlandsMike : 2/25/2020 10:19 pm : link
In comment 14818580 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Brown is a very good DT prospect. But considering what we need most on defense, a, edge FINISHER, Brown doesn't really bring enough. If he was Aaron Donald-ish, it would be more compelling.

But Brown's career high in sacks was 4.5 at Auburn. Donald had 11 sacks at Pittsburgh 2X. So I just don't see the finishing ability we desperately need...


This is my take as well especially if we resign Williams. That unit is one of the few strong ones on the team and way too many other pressing needs starting with potentially getting a stud LT for DJ and Barkley.
DGs ego is way too big to let LW walk  
Ned In Atlanta : 2/25/2020 10:47 pm : link
Brown is a stud but only way I would want this outcome is if they traded down to 7, picked up assets and he fell to them
Detroit may draft Brown  
Rjanyg : 2/25/2020 10:52 pm : link
They just released Snack and have a major need and the value seems to be there.
Tomlinson had 3.5 sacks  
bc4life : 2/26/2020 6:04 am : link
7 tackles for losses, 9 QB hits and even more QB hurries. Think he is underappreciated by many
We have to figure  
Darth Paul : 2/26/2020 6:24 am : link
out who got rid of the scouts first. Maybe one of them was looking at him?
small consideration  
Bill2 : 2/26/2020 7:21 am : link
Until the LW situation plays itself out, I would hope their are rumors of interest in Derrick Brown that find their way to LW's agents
RE: We have to figure  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/26/2020 8:15 am : link
In comment 14819360 Darth Paul said:
Quote:
out who got rid of the scouts first. Maybe one of them was looking at him?

I think their regional assignments were Northeast and Southwest. Although they can't have been much worse than their predecessors who scouted Jay Bromley and Owa Odighizuwa.

In any case, they'd have been unrelated to any scouting on Brown, I would think.
Brown would have been the responsibility of the SE regional guy ....  
Spider56 : 2/26/2020 11:53 am : link
I think his name is Steve Verderosa ...I was told he was responsible for all 3 of last years first rounders, plus Slayton and Big George... In 2018, he would have scouted Carter, BJ Hill, RJ and possibly Hernandez ... It’s clear he has DGs ear ... along with the all important SEC .
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