“ If the Giants do use either tag on Williams, they are expected to tag him as a defensive tackle, and if they do, Williams' camp will likely file a grievance claiming he should be tagged as a defensive end, according to an NFL source. Williams played both positions with the Giants and Jets last season, but being tagged as an end could earn him approximately $4 million more...”
Link - (
New Window )
Contract Notes
The Jets picked up Leonard Williams fifth year option for 2019. The option is worth $14.2 million and is guaranteed for injury. If he is on the roster on the first day of the 2019 league year his salary will become fully guaranteed.
A core of us were getting underneath this months ago and discussing why the LW acquisition was going to have a material cap impact. And that's whether you liked the trade or not...
Leonard Williams career earnings according to OTC - ( New Window )
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Don't let reality get in the way of what you hope is true.
Is that sarcasm? Go check for yourself! As the saying goes, we're all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts. Leonard Williams career earnings according to OTC - ( New Window )
Read the contract notes on LW's OTC page. You trust them as a source but also don't trust them as a source?
He made $14.2M last year. Get over it.
Contract Notes
The Jets picked up Leonard Williams fifth year option for 2019. The option is worth $14.2 million and is guaranteed for injury. If he is on the roster on the first day of the 2019 league year his salary will become fully guaranteed.
go to this link and do the math - ( New Window )
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OTC states in the contract notes:
Contract Notes
The Jets picked up Leonard Williams fifth year option for 2019. The option is worth $14.2 million and is guaranteed for injury. If he is on the roster on the first day of the 2019 league year his salary will become fully guaranteed.
OTC's "current contract" page is contradicted by their "history" page. I'm guessing the history page is correct. It just makes sense that the Jets would go with the DT # and not the DE # when you consider that he spent more snaps at DT than he did at DE. go to this link and do the math - ( New Window )
No, you're HOPING the history page is correct. But even the history page adds up a hell of a lot closer to $14.2M than to $11.4M, which suggests that they're just getting some part of the calculation wrong as it relates to the transfer of money related to the trade (because NYJ picked up part of LW's residual salary at the time of the transaction).
Every single data point but one corroborates the $14.2M salary, and even that one does NOT confirm the $11.4M salary.
What you're doing is grasping at the noise and ignoring the facts.
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In comment 14819038 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
Don't let reality get in the way of what you hope is true.
Is that sarcasm? Go check for yourself! As the saying goes, we're all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts. Leonard Williams career earnings according to OTC - ( New Window )
Read the contract notes on LW's OTC page. You trust them as a source but also don't trust them as a source?
He made $14.2M last year. Get over it.
Milton, think for a second. You are Leonard William's. You are guaranteed 14.2 million dollars.
Remember, rookie contracts are guaranteed for the most part, correct? Well, it seems like they added his base salary as part of his career earnings earlier than it was paid out. When his option was picked up he was guaranteed 14.2 mil but because they already gave him his base salary in their career earnings they had to subtract that back out of the 14.2 mil. Either way, he made 14.2 mil last year. That was the option that was picked up.
Milton, think for a second. You are Leonard William's. You are guaranteed 14.2 million dollars.
Remember, rookie contracts are guaranteed for the most part, correct? Well, it seems like they added his base salary as part of his career earnings earlier than it was paid out. When his option was picked up he was guaranteed 14.2 mil but because they already gave him his base salary in their career earnings they had to subtract that back out of the 14.2 mil. Either way, he made 14.2 mil last year. That was the option that was picked up.
One thing I know from following both sites throughout the years is that when there is a discrepancy, OTC is the site that has the correct number.
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Milton, think for a second. You are Leonard William's. You are guaranteed 14.2 million dollars.
Remember, rookie contracts are guaranteed for the most part, correct? Well, it seems like they added his base salary as part of his career earnings earlier than it was paid out. When his option was picked up he was guaranteed 14.2 mil but because they already gave him his base salary in their career earnings they had to subtract that back out of the 14.2 mil. Either way, he made 14.2 mil last year. That was the option that was picked up.
Both spotrac and OTC agree that the guaranteed money in his original contract was $18.63M. That covers the first four years of his career because the rookie contract was fully guaranteed as it is for all 1st round picks. The 5th year option is only guaranteed for injury, so it wasn't included in the guaranteed money that both sites give. Now look at the career earnings as given by spotrac and the career earnings as given by OTC. Spotrac has it as $32.9M, OTC has it is $30.03M. So there is a disagreement between the two sites. If you subtract 18.63 from 32.9, you get 14.2. If you subtract 18.63 from 30.03, you get 11.4. I understand that OTC has a contract note that says he earned $14.2M in 2019, but on that very same page they give his career earnings as $30.03. And on their "career earnings" page they also list his career earnings as $30.03. Why would the Jets pay him as a DE if he took more snaps as a DT? I'm gonna do some more googling to see if there was an article from May of 2018 that mentions the Jets picking up his 5th-year option.
One thing I know from following both sites throughout the years is that when there is a discrepancy, OTC is the site that has the correct number.
There's a lot of articles that mention it. As a DE.
You're grasping at a piece of arithmetic that isn't even supported by the actual salary numbers listed on OTC for 2019. Milton, you're just wrong about this. But your stubbornness is impressive.
You're grasping at a piece of arithmetic that isn't even supported by the actual salary numbers listed on OTC for 2019. Milton, you're just wrong about this. But your stubbornness is impressive.
And like I said, in years past OTC has been more reliable than spotrac.
Leonard Williams OTC (History) - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
I love how you say other than. Lol. Why did OTC decide to put that note on their site? They didn't put a note that says 11.4.
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I love how you say other than. Lol. Why did OTC decide to put that note on their site? They didn't put a note that says 11.4.
Notes are written (and rounded off), the other #s appear like they were pulled directly from a database (they are detailed right down to the dollar).
Not really. If you add up the cash paid by the Jets and Giants it works out to the DT number for the 2019 5th year option. The Jets paid a portion of his remaining salary to allow the trade to work due to our cap limitations last year.
This does make sense because at the time of the trade Williams was owed ~$6 million where the Jets picked up ~$4 million. I think he was traded week 8/9. Since NFL players get paid on a 17 week schedule then that 6 would seem low if he was getting paid $14.2 mil. So, it is very possible he did play under the DT label hence $11.4 mil.
Just for shits and giggles.
11.407 × 120% = $13.6884 mil
So, that number would only come into play if he is on the transition tag and still labeled as a DT. Otherwise, the tags numbers will be higher than the 120%
Link - ( New Window )
The tags were put in place to protect both parties. the team gets to keep the player and the player is guaranteed a 20% raise or top 5 or top 10 money at the position. in this case Williams made $14,200,000 in 2019 so in either case he would make $17M on either tag. Unless someone knows a different salary that he received thats the number. You dont lose money by getting tagged.
I thought his all in comp for 2019 was $14.2M; regardless of position...What am I missing?
The DE tag number is higher than $14M.
And there shouldn't be this much confusion over what position he plays. What did the Jets designate him as for his 5th year option? If they claimed he was a DT and LW didn't dispute it, then I think the Giants would have a strong case unless he played a much larger share of his snaps with the Giants at DE. And if the Jets designated him a DE, I'm guessing the Giants will have to too.
Link - ( New Window )
If LW contests the DT designation, which I would expect, and wins, the only option would be to transition tag him, and dare him to see what he can find on the market. Which is exactly why many of us thought the trade was terrible. The odds that he would settle for anything less to sign with a team that traded for him were pretty slim.
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so 120% of LW's salary is based on which position he played?
I thought his all in comp for 2019 was $14.2M; regardless of position...What am I missing?
The DE tag number is higher than $14M.
I get it. The conversation here, to start, was mostly about determining LW's total comp in 2019 so we could measure it against the projected FT.
The tags were put in place to protect both parties. the team gets to keep the player and the player is guaranteed a 20% raise or top 5 or top 10 money at the position. in this case Williams made $14,200,000 in 2019 so in either case he would make $17M on either tag. Unless someone knows a different salary that he received thats the number. You dont lose money by getting tagged.
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whether we tag his as a DT or DE or under the franchise or transition tag the price will be the same.
The tags were put in place to protect both parties. the team gets to keep the player and the player is guaranteed a 20% raise or top 5 or top 10 money at the position. in this case Williams made $14,200,000 in 2019 so in either case he would make $17M on either tag. Unless someone knows a different salary that he received thats the number. You dont lose money by getting tagged.
He received $11.4M in 2019. So the point is no longer moot.
Just out of curiosity, where do you believe OTC gets their salary data from?
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In comment 14819591 Rudy5757 said:
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whether we tag his as a DT or DE or under the franchise or transition tag the price will be the same.
The tags were put in place to protect both parties. the team gets to keep the player and the player is guaranteed a 20% raise or top 5 or top 10 money at the position. in this case Williams made $14,200,000 in 2019 so in either case he would make $17M on either tag. Unless someone knows a different salary that he received thats the number. You dont lose money by getting tagged.
He received $11.4M in 2019. So the point is no longer moot.
Just out of curiosity, where do you believe OTC gets their salary data from?
Link - ( New Window )
I suspect both OTC and ST rely on public sources and private relationships they've built. But I am not aware of a source of truth the NFL or NFLPA provides.
If OTC has it right in their salary tally, it means 1) they have it wrong in their own notes 2) the majority of publications reported it wrong 3) the Jets were able to successfully option him as a DT without their being any public contention from Williams or his agent 4) the Giants are in a better position.
I hope for the sake of the team this is true. But I'll hold out claiming opinion as fact with the only evidence being a contradictory record on one site.
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whether we tag his as a DT or DE or under the franchise or transition tag the price will be the same.
The tags were put in place to protect both parties. the team gets to keep the player and the player is guaranteed a 20% raise or top 5 or top 10 money at the position. in this case Williams made $14,200,000 in 2019 so in either case he would make $17M on either tag. Unless someone knows a different salary that he received thats the number. You dont lose money by getting tagged.
He received $11.4M in 2019. So the point is no longer moot.
Except that he received $14.2M.
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For arguments sake, let's stick with $14.2M as LW's 2019 contract.
But that's what the whole argument is about!!! That's like a husband telling his wife, "let's say for argument's sake that I didn't cheat on you; how dare you accuse me of being unfaithful!"
It's not an argument. It's a whole bunch of people who understand the factual nature of the information, and one person glomming onto a typographical error that doesn't even support his own claim, it just happens to also not line up to the same factual information that everyone else accepts.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/salary.htm
Literally every source except for a secondary page on OTC lists LW's 2019 salary as $14.2M. And the secondary page on OTC adds up to $13.7M, not $11.4M. You have to make your own assumptions and arrive at your wishful conclusion by way of subtraction, and somehow you think this particular conclusion is more valid than the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
At this point, I can only surmise that you're being intentionally obtuse for attention.
Now maybe you're right and maybe you're wrong - ( New Window )
Then I googled "Jets Giants trade Williams" and multiple sites reported on October 28th...
It's seems to me there was an assumption going back to April of last year that he would be designated a DE and receive $14.2M. But it wasn't official, just speculated. The news following the trade on October 28th, wasn't speculation, it was factual reporting. It didn't come from either spotrac or OTC, it came from the Jets and Giants beat reporters with access to team management.
Props to Robbieballs for pointing me in this direction.
and I still have not a clue if I think LW is a DE or DT
and I still have not a clue if I think LW is a DE or DT
That made me laugh.
So how come spotrac has him costing the Giants $3,517,647 in both cash and against the cap? Meanwhile it is OTC which has him costing the Giants $2,019,500.
I'm back to being 90% sure I'm right. Maybe even 95% sure. Poor Ralph needs to go back and edit that article once again!!!
The $6M remaining figure reported in October 2019 could have been wrong just as Ralph has decided his $11.4M was wrong in February 2020.
What you have to go on, as of today, with Ralph's defection, is (1)inconsistency at OTC between their contract note and their supporting detail and (2) Duggan's quoted assertion in the Athletic article.
The only way out of the loop is to contact OTC and/or Duggan and ask them if they actually support an $11.4M figure for LW 2019 and, if so, where their supporting info comes from.