I know, I know, the last thing we need is another DG thread. I just read the most recent one about "his wings being clipped" and I really don't get it. I've been a fan since the late 70's so I've seen enough to have been around the block.
The dislike (hatred?) for this guy is really over the top. I think we can all agree that he inherited a pretty shitty roster two years ago and I'd like to think we can all agree (granted it's early to tell definitively) that he had two good drafts including finding what looks like our future franchise QB. No doubt he has had his misses in FA and at least one peculiar trade in LW (but personally I think he's a player and will be resigned).
Can someone explain this to me? Is it his persona and the way he speaks to the media? Do you really just hate his player moves (if so what has he done that's so heinous-and don't bring up the LW trade, we've all seen enough about that). Do you dislike his drafts that much?
I'm not saying I'm a huge fan at all but the hatred seems nuts to me.
Dave Gettleman has provided over two offseasons thus far. It's just not enough to undo the previous 10 years of poor drafting. It's just not.
If you look at it at a very basic level, he needed to rebuild and entire 53 man roster. In two offseasons there's really nothing left. That doesn't mean that he messed up. It just means that we are finally starting at a clean slate from a roster and financial standpoing. We are now building from the ground up.
And I get the "he mis-evaluated the roster he inherited" argument. I get it. But there are prior instances of teams being able to make some moves and tweaks and still remain competitive WHILE rebuilding. It does happen. He also happened to have the Eli Manning situation in his lap, which was he had a vet QB who could still play at 36 years old and two years remaining on his contract. That is not an easy situation/decision to navigate, especially when the player isn't the root of the problem.
Did Shurmur really do a bad job hiring or is it just easy to say that two years later? I liked the Bettcher hire, for example. I think most of BBI did as well. I was not thrilled with Shula, but didn't think he was the worst choice available. Then again, Bettcher and many of the position coaches are left jobless last I checked, so I could be wrong.
I think the NYG HC job was very much impossible the past two seasons. I don't think there's been a large disconnect between the talent and record the past two seasons.
So does being combative.
Look, we had good discussions not because I agreed with you but because I admired a poster who tried to be fact based in support of his points. I like that a lot in posters and respect it. There is not enough of it
But you might want to consider that over time, your weakest positions were attacked. Not by me. And you were not attacked. Your positions were attached but you over valued the supporting data as more telling than it often was and then conflated opposition to ideas as a greater insult than it was.
Now its all personal combat and sensitivity to the unfairness of it all. Which only accelerates replies in kind
Look at your posts from a year or two ago. Very good stuff. Maybe re find footing there ? I don't know
I know its not a good idea for us to engage this way so im going to back off until I find more solid ground
No, in general you were not agreeing with me, you were going into details and picking at a flaw in my argument. I never had, and still don't have an issue with any of that.
I haven't been posting a whole lot lately. Multiple reasons... I have been extremely busy, and don't have a whole lotta time, especially to research something the way I normally would when I want to post about something. There also hasn't been much new lately that has captured my imagination to post about (perhaps a function of lack of time). So in that sense, you are right... I haven't made those kinds of posts lately. Perhaps come draft time, assuming I free up a bit.
On the other hand, you always took a neutral analytical approach. The kinds of sweeping generalizations and labeling of a whole class of thought that you've made on this thread alone, would have been unthinkable for you a year ago. You would have stuck to the facts. Perhaps something for you to try and regrab a foothold of there as well.
If anybody is lumping the previous 6 years into the last two, it was Mara, DG and any of the fans on BBI that thought Eli Manning was going to keep pulling this flawed team up by his bootstraps. Even though his O-line wasn't getting any better and his game (and age) were deteriorating.
The 2016 team developed some mojo in season on Defense and won a whole lot of close games, but it was short lived. The team fundamentally wasn't sound on either side of the ball sans the occasionally slant throw that went for a 60-yard TD.
There was a time to look critically at breaking this thing down, but the decisions went the other way and Eli stayed in the saddle and expensive yet flawed free agents were signed. And now they are digging out of that mess.
from afar it looked like Bettcher could not teach at all and did not have talent to teach. Both things
I thought that from afar and no much else to go on the OL/RB/Lb/Db/Assistant DB coaches ranged from "where you there?" to "we couldn't do better"?
As a group the coaches simply did not show:
Time Management
Adaption during the game or at the half
Adaption from game to game
Play calling skills
Inexplicable plays called too often
Unit improvement from the Ol/LB/DB/CB
Putting players in position to do well ( often seemed we actually went away from the "book" on what they do well)
I get your good point...with the talent especially on defense its hard to see how even great coaching could have gotten more than 2 more wins. But I think I saw two more games that were winnable by good coaching ( I get that would not have helped us come draft time, but I couldn't find a defense of many on the prior coaching staff)
Take care Brett
Are you really surprised?
I really don't think any Giants fans "actually hate" Eli Manning. I do think though 8+ years since the Giants last won a playoff game with Eli at QB you do have fans who think there should be a change at the position.
Seems like hyperbole.
Fact, there is no argument.
Had to deal with a high paid, declining 2 time SB winning QB beloved my ownership and fans.
That is extremely difficult to navigate.
I will not go through all of the decisions.
There is both good and bad.
I lean towards, he has not been good enough.
I just can't say for sure yet.
1 more year.
After this entire year if we do not look better it will be fair to say DG has not been good enough and the Giants should move on.
It would help with your criticisms if you were to shelve the ad hominem attacks. I watch them bait people into doing it. Then, once you go there, you are attacked personally for your name calling and justifiably so.
Almost every thread is reduced to the same people trying to find the most clever and insulting ways to call their enemies with a different opinion stupid.
Tribal enemies.
And I did not see that as picking...I saw that as places where a good poster could have been engaging towards us both getting to a more solid ground. I thank you for those discussions.
I fully agree that for me my preferential way to engage feels much harder in the current environment so perhaps we are finding the same things from different directions
For example, FMIC has gotten under your skin. I get the reasons why and the worst exchanges where unnecessary. But you should know there is no way to "win" those kinds of exchanges. Its one of the reasons I tried to take you elsewhere on some of those threads. Let others see over the top as over the top and keep on doing your level best posting
If it were me, Id shrug all that off more McL. But that's easier for me to say because I have known and like FMIC for a long time. I certainly wouldn't let that wreck your experience. I certainly would not keep a scorecard and try to win the last word with posters ( I do that to my own detriment all the time0
Most fights are about the other guy. And most things that set people off are traits they half see in themselves and don't like about themselves. How else could they see and find "reasons' to respond?
Take care and see you down the road.
Maybe once past the draft the emotional content on some subjects will die down enough that they are debateable
from afar it looked like Bettcher could not teach at all and did not have talent to teach. Both things
I thought that from afar and no much else to go on the OL/RB/Lb/Db/Assistant DB coaches ranged from "where you there?" to "we couldn't do better"?
As a group the coaches simply did not show:
Time Management
Adaption during the game or at the half
Adaption from game to game
Play calling skills
Inexplicable plays called too often
Unit improvement from the Ol/LB/DB/CB
Putting players in position to do well ( often seemed we actually went away from the "book" on what they do well)
I get your good point...with the talent especially on defense its hard to see how even great coaching could have gotten more than 2 more wins. But I think I saw two more games that were winnable by good coaching ( I get that would not have helped us come draft time, but I couldn't find a defense of many on the prior coaching staff)
Take care Brett
Thanks. I see your point and agree with all of it.
I would have been fine with the coaching staff staying despite the record if I saw things to hang my hat on. Outside of Jones and Slayton, there wasn't much. There were too many errors. Teams like the 04 Giants and even this years Dolphins showed traits of quality coaching despite bad records.
But I am looking for examples of the following:
I) A team we are not expected to beat where we do by dint of a better game plan or plays that the opponent is not prepared for
II) A game we win by adjustments during the game and especially at the half
III) Well played last two minute plans
IV) Better line calls by Jones
V) Better line play by the OL
VI) Better defense in the middle of the field
VII) Several guys who are better by the end of the year
I've complained about Gettleman enough. :)
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Actually hate our 2X SB MVP QB who beat the best team the NFL ever had and then did it again 4 years later.
Are you really surprised?
I really don't think any Giants fans "actually hate" Eli Manning. I do think though 8+ years since the Giants last won a playoff game with Eli at QB you do have fans who think there should be a change at the position.
Seems like hyperbole.
Come on PJ, you've been on this board long enough to have read some of the nonsense posted about him over the years. That is quite a soft-sell claiming that they just wanted a change.
He has been vilified by many people on this board for years. He even caught crap over the 2016 GB playoff game where he had something 3 TD passes dropped and our top 3 receivers combined for a whopping 121 yards and were outperformed by Will Tye and Tavarres King
Dave Gettleman has provided over two offseasons thus far. It's just not enough to undo the previous 10 years of poor drafting. It's just not.
If you look at it at a very basic level, he needed to rebuild and entire 53 man roster. In two offseasons there's really nothing left. That doesn't mean that he messed up. It just means that we are finally starting at a clean slate from a roster and financial standpoing. We are now building from the ground up.
And I get the "he mis-evaluated the roster he inherited" argument. I get it. But there are prior instances of teams being able to make some moves and tweaks and still remain competitive WHILE rebuilding. It does happen. He also happened to have the Eli Manning situation in his lap, which was he had a vet QB who could still play at 36 years old and two years remaining on his contract. That is not an easy situation/decision to navigate, especially when the player isn't the root of the problem.
One of the issues I have is this sympathy you and others pedal for Gettleman. Implying that DG deserves a Mulligan for stepping into a bad situation.
I really struggle with that. He knew what he was getting into and instantly synced up with Mara that Eli was still the path to success. And proceeded to invest heavily to make that happen. Now the ripple effects of many of those decisions - many poor ones - have created an additional set back and cost us time in this rebuild.
So he dug another hole for the team. Yet he gets all of this credit for fixing the hole that Reese dug. How do you reconcile that?
The team he inherited was bad, but GMs aren't typically fired for putting together good teams. I don't quite buy he stepped into a uniquely challenging situation. Hard, but not tragic.
In the pinned thread on cutting Ogletree/Martin, I listed out the 22 UFAs acquired in 2018 for instance.
That's a pretty decent sample size, and honestly I don't believe any of those players improved the position.
The bad reads on UFA and the very bad Shurmur hire are independently alarming.
Whether he inherited a bad team or horrific team, some of these independent factors can and should be better.
Not so much forced as hired the guy who aligned with him.
I have a hard time believing that too - and DG's first moves were like a bad repeat of 2012, trying to retool on the fly and get competitive ASAP when it was clear the team had much bigger problems than what could be repaired in one offseason.
I think it's a lot more likely that Gettleman's main advantage as Reese's successor was his familiarity with the Giants organization and his like mindedness when it came to the moves that needed to be made. Otherwise, not only was he forced to retain Eli, but he was forced to try to patch things together for a quick run as well?
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is that posters (generally as I see it) have a hard time separating the old from the new.
Dave Gettleman has provided over two offseasons thus far. It's just not enough to undo the previous 10 years of poor drafting. It's just not.
If you look at it at a very basic level, he needed to rebuild and entire 53 man roster. In two offseasons there's really nothing left. That doesn't mean that he messed up. It just means that we are finally starting at a clean slate from a roster and financial standpoing. We are now building from the ground up.
And I get the "he mis-evaluated the roster he inherited" argument. I get it. But there are prior instances of teams being able to make some moves and tweaks and still remain competitive WHILE rebuilding. It does happen. He also happened to have the Eli Manning situation in his lap, which was he had a vet QB who could still play at 36 years old and two years remaining on his contract. That is not an easy situation/decision to navigate, especially when the player isn't the root of the problem.
One of the issues I have is this sympathy you and others pedal for Gettleman. Implying that DG deserves a Mulligan for stepping into a bad situation.
I really struggle with that. He knew what he was getting into and instantly synced up with Mara that Eli was still the path to success. And proceeded to invest heavily to make that happen. Now the ripple effects of many of those decisions - many poor ones - have created an additional set back and cost us time in this rebuild.
So he dug another hole for the team. Yet he gets all of this credit for fixing the hole that Reese dug. How do you reconcile that?
And I did not see that as picking...I saw that as places where a good poster could have been engaging towards us both getting to a more solid ground. I thank you for those discussions.
I fully agree that for me my preferential way to engage feels much harder in the current environment so perhaps we are finding the same things from different directions
For example, FMIC has gotten under your skin. I get the reasons why and the worst exchanges where unnecessary. But you should know there is no way to "win" those kinds of exchanges. Its one of the reasons I tried to take you elsewhere on some of those threads. Let others see over the top as over the top and keep on doing your level best posting
If it were me, Id shrug all that off more McL. But that's easier for me to say because I have known and like FMIC for a long time. I certainly wouldn't let that wreck your experience. I certainly would not keep a scorecard and try to win the last word with posters ( I do that to my own detriment all the time0
Most fights are about the other guy. And most things that set people off are traits they half see in themselves and don't like about themselves. How else could they see and find "reasons' to respond?
Take care and see you down the road.
Maybe once past the draft the emotional content on some subjects will die down enough that they are debateable
I didn't mean "picking" in a negative sense as in "picking on"... More like the flap of a band aid that is sticking up (the flaw) and you pulled at it. Sorry if that was unclear. As I said, I've been posting much less lately. And honestly besides being busy. it has also been a conscious step back from the tribalness and combativeness that discussions have degenerated into. Which has been the general theme of my posts in this thread. And in fact the general theme of most of my posts lately when I have posted.
Take a look at these threads. Almost always one of the first things trotted out is that critics are still just butt hurt over Darnold. After that, its the hiring process, after that is the buffoonery. Its all about bundling all the critics up, putting them into a neat package that can be more easily attacked. The critics, or "realists", are a varied array posters who arrived at their opinions in various ways. What's more, not all of them even agree with each other.
I stepped back almost 3 months ago... During that time I've seen Terps driven off by Joey, which seems to have been taken as some sort of victory by one tribe and opened a floodgate of venom directed at the realists. Now Googs has been banned as well, and there were some posters reveling in that "victory" as well. If you take a step back, but still pay attention, the tone shift has been quite noticeable.
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Not so much forced as hired the guy who aligned with him.
I don't buy that Mara forced it on him either. Nor this crap about that Eagle game video after the fact.
DG was all-in on Eli for a few more years and missed it. Just like he did when his wrongly assessed the roster in the beginning too.
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In comment 14819329 montanagiant said:
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Actually hate our 2X SB MVP QB who beat the best team the NFL ever had and then did it again 4 years later.
Are you really surprised?
I really don't think any Giants fans "actually hate" Eli Manning. I do think though 8+ years since the Giants last won a playoff game with Eli at QB you do have fans who think there should be a change at the position.
Seems like hyperbole.
Come on PJ, you've been on this board long enough to have read some of the nonsense posted about him over the years. That is quite a soft-sell claiming that they just wanted a change.
He has been vilified by many people on this board for years. He even caught crap over the 2016 GB playoff game where he had something 3 TD passes dropped and our top 3 receivers combined for a whopping 121 yards and were outperformed by Will Tye and Tavarres King
Fair, and I can't speak for everyone, but I can speak as an Eli laggard. I was not a big fan of Eli all the way up to the 2007 season, and maybe even into 2007.
But I never hated him. He obviously won me over.
I just think hate is a strong word to use about Eli.
Maybe I'm wrong.
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I have a hard time believing that too - and DG's first moves were like a bad repeat of 2012, trying to retool on the fly and get competitive ASAP when it was clear the team had much bigger problems than what could be repaired in one offseason.
I think it's a lot more likely that Gettleman's main advantage as Reese's successor was his familiarity with the Giants organization and his like mindedness when it came to the moves that needed to be made. Otherwise, not only was he forced to retain Eli, but he was forced to try to patch things together for a quick run as well?
Agreed. I wanted someone from outside the organization, but was fine with DG because I thought he had a track record of doing the things I liked: making tough, analytical football decisions. His track record at CAR was encouraging as well. The moves he made that first off-season worried me immediately.
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Very fair all around
And I did not see that as picking...I saw that as places where a good poster could have been engaging towards us both getting to a more solid ground. I thank you for those discussions.
I fully agree that for me my preferential way to engage feels much harder in the current environment so perhaps we are finding the same things from different directions
For example, FMIC has gotten under your skin. I get the reasons why and the worst exchanges where unnecessary. But you should know there is no way to "win" those kinds of exchanges. Its one of the reasons I tried to take you elsewhere on some of those threads. Let others see over the top as over the top and keep on doing your level best posting
If it were me, Id shrug all that off more McL. But that's easier for me to say because I have known and like FMIC for a long time. I certainly wouldn't let that wreck your experience. I certainly would not keep a scorecard and try to win the last word with posters ( I do that to my own detriment all the time0
Most fights are about the other guy. And most things that set people off are traits they half see in themselves and don't like about themselves. How else could they see and find "reasons' to respond?
Take care and see you down the road.
Maybe once past the draft the emotional content on some subjects will die down enough that they are debateable
I didn't mean "picking" in a negative sense as in "picking on"... More like the flap of a band aid that is sticking up (the flaw) and you pulled at it. Sorry if that was unclear. As I said, I've been posting much less lately. And honestly besides being busy. it has also been a conscious step back from the tribalness and combativeness that discussions have degenerated into. Which has been the general theme of my posts in this thread. And in fact the general theme of most of my posts lately when I have posted.
Take a look at these threads. Almost always one of the first things trotted out is that critics are still just butt hurt over Darnold. After that, its the hiring process, after that is the buffoonery. Its all about bundling all the critics up, putting them into a neat package that can be more easily attacked. The critics, or "realists", are a varied array posters who arrived at their opinions in various ways. What's more, not all of them even agree with each other.
I stepped back almost 3 months ago... During that time I've seen Terps driven off by Joey, which seems to have been taken as some sort of victory by one tribe and opened a floodgate of venom directed at the realists. Now Googs has been banned as well, and there were some posters reveling in that "victory" as well. If you take a step back, but still pay attention, the tone shift has been quite noticeable.
Ive never been one for personal attacks. We all have our moments though. That said, I believe the shift that you noticed was from people that got tired of getting beat over the head with pessimism and negativity on every thread. It was possibly the most overwhelmingly negative period in my near twenty year tenure here. Any positive was shouted down from thread to thread, and if you didn’t agree you were a _______ fan club member or sympathizer. People who normally don’t even post much were drawn out of hibernation.
Passed at getting a replacement for Eli, although still a little early to tell.
Saquon was a good pick.
Draft is an incomplete, because it's too early.
Lots of wasted money, although it Odell early, picked up a lot of bad fa players.
Jury is not out yet, but it's not looking good. Really hoping JJ can turn it around and show us he is a decent GM that made a bad coaching hire, that lead to bad FA picks.
Is it more likely:
1) fans harbored a secret hatred for Manning
2) fans could see the obvious outcome of high cost, more losing, and little benefit to the team
Britt, we may not agree on much, but I actually like you as a poster... A lot...
I think of you as one of the good guys, and I have a lot of admiration for you with how you held up under a pretty withering assault. Some of it unnecessarily personal. And you never descended into the petty attacks.
I think for you in particular it probably felt more overwhelming because as the team's play descended into the far depths, you were the sole defender of your faith. You bore that weight almost entirely alone. I can understand your feelings in this manner.
The core/vocal group of realists is a pretty small group. They are for the most part respectful posters. Admittedly, there were a handful of times I felt compelled to call one or another of them of them out for behaving badly. But in general, the core group is respectful. There are other posters, who at least I do not consider part of that core group. The posters outside the core group are far more likely to engage in the ad-hominem attacks that I think are now being turned on all the core group of realists unjustly.
It might be a coincidence. It seems as though, just about everyone that thought Eli was done and thought we should move on from Eli disliked DG from the moment he said the Eagle game was not a mirage. FWIW, I hated that he said that and also thought Eli was toast. However, it did not make me hate the guy. From the cheap seats, some people sure seem to hate him. If he got the QB right and the new coach right we might have something. I can't know that until the end of the 2020 season. I think it is possible both of those decision are not just good, but home runs. Some of the criticisms of the guy could look pretty foolish by the end of next year. I lean towards DG has not been good enough but I am unwilling to be definitive and insulting about it and risk looking foolish.
I said it here or on another thread that if Jones turns into a legit franchise QB who wins playoff games and challenges for trophies then DG has indeed delivered his best work. And many of the gaffes will be a distant memory. Legacy sealed.
I don't take the hate stuff seriously. It's probably more deep frustration with the team performance and how DG conducts himself.
For me, and I seem to be in the minority on this, I think Gettleman has a responsibility to act a certain way in front of any mic and instill confidence that the team is on course. He is a member of the C-suite. Act like one and be prepared.
:-)
Look, its relatively easy to be a Giant fan when things are going well or even average. But when you have sucked like this team has for the better part of the past decade, losing probably does create a bit of separation between those fans that can see the flaws/issues and those that would rather see "around" those flaws.
Not everybody has to root/post the same. Not everybody has to be optimistic just like that don't have to be pessimistic, but they can still be fans nevertheless. Fans that may even post their views with sensationalism from time to time, or all the time. And if they do, is it because they are morons...or just that's how they choose to act as Giant fans?
:-)
Look, its relatively easy to be a Giant fan when things are going well or even average. But when you have sucked like this team has for the better part of the past decade, losing probably does create a bit of separation between those fans that can see the flaws/issues and those that would rather see "around" those flaws.
Not everybody has to root/post the same. Not everybody has to be optimistic just like that don't have to be pessimistic, but they can still be fans nevertheless. Fans that may even post their views with sensationalism from time to time, or all the time. And if they do, is it because they are morons...or just that's how they choose to act as Giant fans?
LBH, I pretty much agree with your post.
You were not really here to see the evolution of the realists. Terps and bw were there from the start. I hated the Barkley pick, but wanted to wait and see. I was critical of his moves individually, but I finally had enough around game 5 or 6 this year. That was about the time the "core" group came together it was only about 7 or 8 of us that had decided by that time both PS and DG should go. THe larger group of realists were swayed by the teams continued dismal performance, and by the weight of many of the arguments of the core group.
Offseason seems to be the best months to be a Giant fan, at least lately. So with some bit of optimism maybe DG has a better free agent period in his 3rd year on the job, or at least neutral.
The key to me is still the draft, and I really believe we need the fates to come together and get us a nice trade-down whereas we can add a few red-chip guys instead of one maybe "blue-chip". Still way too many units on this team that need upgrading.
Offseason seems to be the best months to be a Giant fan, at least lately. So with some bit of optimism maybe DG has a better free agent period in his 3rd year on the job, or at least neutral.
The key to me is still the draft, and I really believe we need the fates to come together and get us a nice trade-down whereas we can add a few red-chip guys instead of one maybe "blue-chip". Still way too many units on this team that need upgrading.
Yep... I'm reconciled to DG's presence for another year. And I hope for the best. I hope that the hand of God touches him, and all his future decisions turn to Gold... I harbor no hate for the guy.
Do you get that anyone who labels themselves as such is really not approachable or worth talking to for their world is closed to only those who recognize their self nominated superiority?
Then you feel picked on when folks think its an unearned posture?
That self nominated self certain and arrogant tone is at odds with any cloudy situation that is moving rapidly and cannot be penetrated with the very limited knowledge any of us have.
In life are you attracted to smug people?
Do you want to interact with them or stay away from their arrogance?
Why would anyone adopt a self limiting way of being?
None of those people are realists. None. Neither am I or anyone else posting about the state of the Giants.
We are projecting. Nothing more. Projecting.
Humility would serve us all well.
Humans, being human, have a very high chance of fooling themselves.
And doesn't an intelligent person change as new information and perspectives get taken in?
What's more by self nominating as a group you are nominating all others as "others"
How's that square with being analytically sound and only fact based?
Not a debate I'm asking to have nor wish to keep going. I pose them as questions that might be worthwhile for you to self examine over time.
To me. Self nominating into a label or group is a mental occlusion that hardens into blind spots
As a point of logic, No one can be realistic until the results are in. Not possible
And No one can be realistic until you know for sure what the degree of marching orders and constraints DG had to work with. We dont know so we all speculate this aspect. Which makes no one realistic. We cant be. We have to adjust to the reality of not knowing.
A realist in this situation is the ones who confess they dont know and get comfortable with that "realism"
Way too much speculation of all different kinds from all angles for anyone to be a realist. And no one knows how the story plays out just yet.
That's not me talking. That's just reality
I was actually a proud "Pollyanna" then.
Don't really care if you call me a pessimist, at least with the current team and its state... Whatever...
What I don't like is the broad brush painting of everybody in the group as Smug. That's a word I usually hear from another poster. Not you.
Look at some of the predictions in the early season threads at some of the outsized expectations many, many posters had.
As it turned out, those expectations were unrealistic. Thus the pessimistic voices were the "Realists" once the results were in. I didn't see the term being widely revived until near the end of the season... So not quite what you are thinking. But you are doing your analysis these days from one side of the tribal views. Something the Bill from a year ago would have shunned.
Its about getting you to think harder and more in depth. Just you. The way you are thinking. No one else
Not the term and not about tribes or sides or labels.
Btw, you resist being self reflective and noticing that you are the one who could be seeing things incorrectly. Psychologically well defended. And attack the messenger in order to resist the point.
Going to be hard to be a good analyst
Ah well
And they hardened because you are angry at a particular poster and conflated from there
You are better than that
Balanced against his gamble on DJ and Barks, for me, the irrational trades and signings and letting guys go for nothing and the Shurmur signing and the bizarre press conferences are enough to convince me that he’s way out of his capability set.
Thank you, Ty.
Its about getting you to think harder and more in depth. Just you. The way you are thinking. No one else
Not the term and not about tribes or sides or labels.
Btw, you resist being self reflective and noticing that you are the one who could be seeing things incorrectly. Psychologically well defended. And attack the messenger in order to resist the point.
Going to be hard to be a good analyst
Ah well
No, I'm not eager to perpetuate the tribalism. Part of the reason I stepped back, as I said before. But I will call it as I see it.
I have actually never used the term "realist" until this thread. I saw it starting to be used often late in the season, but I never self proclaimed it. I only started using it after you used it as a smear earlier. You are better than that.
Mara's impatience with the status quo fired or caused the firing of 3 HC/ One GM/One head of scouting/ 6 coordinators and about 30 coaches in five years trying to get a much better foundation for the team. Facts.
Fault the execution/fault some moves...but the mossy old does nothing Jints Central motif lives on without full alignment with the actual facts only in some heads on BBI.
And they consider themselves realists.
I purposely took on the moniker after that.
Which came first Bill, the chicken or the egg?
A team loses 10 or more games in 5/6 seasons, fires 3 coaches in 5 years, jettisons virtually all of the players, spends deep into their future budget not once but twice with virtually nothing to show. Something deep and broad is wrong. The last two years haven't shown the growth to warrant new trust. When a common refrain is "what was the alternative," I don't get convinced.
On to coach number 4 in 6 years. Now we're entering blind squirrel territory.