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NFT: Final Chapter in Cruise Ship Toddler Death...

BamaBlue : 2/26/2020 8:27 am
It looks like the final straw has been drawn in this case. It most likely came when Royal Caribbean released the photo of the Grandfather dangling the toddler out of the window... the guilty plea deal allows the Grandfather to avoid jail time.

Quote:
“The Puerto Rico Department of Justice has diligently prosecuted the charges against Salvatore Anello in order to bring justice to Chloe’s unfortunate death,” Puerto Rico Attorney General Dennise Longo Quiñones said in a statement. She said that Anello filed a motion Monday afternoon stating his intention to plead guilty and asking for a hearing date when the court might accept the plea.

“Anello’s decision to so proceed is wholly within his discretion and will become binding only upon his appearing before the court to voluntarily plead guilty,” the statement said.




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Sad on so many  
section125 : 2/26/2020 9:00 am : link
levels.
RE: Sad on so many  
Britt in VA : 2/26/2020 9:00 am : link
In comment 14819447 section125 said:
Quote:
levels.


Yeah, nothing really more to say than that.
RE: Sad on so many  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/26/2020 9:02 am : link
In comment 14819447 section125 said:
Quote:
levels.


Yep. A situation where a tragic accident happens and nobody wins.
The incident has been well discussed...  
BamaBlue : 2/26/2020 9:17 am : link
the biggest question was why the family was so aggressive in trying to hold the Royal Caribbean accountable? This probably would still be in litigation if the video showing the Grandfather dangling the toddler wasn't available (or made public).

The family now says they just want to grieve the loss of the child. Does that mean they postponed their grief by focusing on holding Royal Caribbean accountable?
Maybe the final chapter for the grandfather,  
rnargi : 2/26/2020 9:21 am : link
but it looks as though the suit is still pending.

Horrible accident. That's really the long and short of it.
A lot of people..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/26/2020 9:21 am : link
are puzzled by the family's response. Had they quietly gone about a lawsuit, it likely would have been settled, but once they started going public and misrepresenting facts about the ship and the event itself, Royal Caribbean was going to fight it.

The family hired a lawyer the very next day of the death and was doing interviews that same week. Interviews that embellished or flat out lied about what happened.
RE: The incident has been well discussed...  
Bramton1 : 2/26/2020 9:24 am : link
In comment 14819464 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
the biggest question was why the family was so aggressive in trying to hold the Royal Caribbean accountable? This probably would still be in litigation if the video showing the Grandfather dangling the toddler wasn't available (or made public).

The family now says they just want to grieve the loss of the child. Does that mean they postponed their grief by focusing on holding Royal Caribbean accountable?


You're missing an important part of this. The family still considers Royal Caribbean responsible. They haven't dropped the lawsuit. They're still arguing that Royal Caribbean was in the wrong. Apparently, if you want to be lift a toddler up over a guardrail meant to protect individuals from dying a horrible death, that should be your god-given right. They are arguing that there should not have been an open window there at all. Curious what they think of sun decks.
I do feel for these people  
Mike from Ohio : 2/26/2020 9:29 am : link
and the horrible loss they faced. Hopefully they will stop pursuing the lawsuit, accept what happened, and then just focus on grieving their child and repairing the emotional wounds. I don't understand how continuing to blame RC or fight for cruise safety measures is really helping them accept what happened and move on.
No, they probably will not drop the lawsuit  
section125 : 2/26/2020 9:48 am : link
because even though the GF is going to plead guilty they are hoping for a mercy settlement. The lawyers invested a lot of time and would like to get something for their effort, that is how they get paid. So it will not be the windfall they thought, but something is better than nothing. I see no incentive for RCCL to settle.
I have sympathy for the loss of their baby  
Greg from LI : 2/26/2020 9:57 am : link
But I really, really don't like these people.
section..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/26/2020 10:01 am : link
Once the news of the lawsuit went public and the lawyer started making the rounds with the family to intentionally misrepresent the situation, Royal Caribbean didn't have any reason to settle at that point.

The main reason suits get settled is so unfavorable press doesn't get aired - but in this situation, with no wrongdoing taking place, with video of the Grandfather dangling the child, and with the false accusation levied against the cruise line, they were right to dig in on this.

Heck, I'd even think they have a great case for a counter-suit, but they likely will not pursue that - and still get called a greedy Corporate entity by some.

I remember the initial thread on this and several posters were saying they should pay up just because they are a large company and profitable.
They have not dropped the lawsuit  
Jim in Forest Hills : 2/26/2020 10:09 am : link
but it appears the tone has changed to "Creating awareness around the unsafe conditions"

Would this plea deal impact this civil litigation?
Psychology hot take:  
Britt in VA : 2/26/2020 10:15 am : link
They don't want to let this go, because when they let this go, they once and for all let her go. This lawsuit keeps her in the present to them. When it's over, the chapter is closed.

I feel for them.
The civil suit appears to now be moving towards...  
RC in MD : 2/26/2020 10:17 am : link
"there shouldn't be an open window" in the observation deck for safety reasons and no longer "the window being open in the observation deck was hard to decipher." Moving the goalpost in their suit tells you that they aren't out for any altruistic concerns but more so for vindictive purpose to deflect the blame on the big bad corporation instead of on their own family member. I'm not going to accuse them of watching to profit off of this tragedy even if it appears that that is exactly what the lawyer is doing.
RE: Psychology hot take:  
RC in MD : 2/26/2020 10:20 am : link
In comment 14819541 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
They don't want to let this go, because when they let this go, they once and for all let her go. This lawsuit keeps her in the present to them. When it's over, the chapter is closed.

I feel for them.


I'm not a psychologist or a grief counselor, but I don't think that's how grief works. I would believe that by holding on to this lawsuit, they aren't actually trying not to let her go but more to blame someone else for the tragedy of their own family member. It's easier to accept a tragedy, especially one so mindbogglingly crazy, when you can blame the big bad corporate entity than one of your family member, who loved the child. It's easier to make the faceless entity the villain than the child's own grandfather.
RE: section..  
section125 : 2/26/2020 10:25 am : link
In comment 14819528 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Once the news of the lawsuit went public and the lawyer started making the rounds with the family to intentionally misrepresent the situation, Royal Caribbean didn't have any reason to settle at that point.

The main reason suits get settled is so unfavorable press doesn't get aired - but in this situation, with no wrongdoing taking place, with video of the Grandfather dangling the child, and with the false accusation levied against the cruise line, they were right to dig in on this.

Heck, I'd even think they have a great case for a counter-suit, but they likely will not pursue that - and still get called a greedy Corporate entity by some.

I remember the initial thread on this and several posters were saying they should pay up just because they are a large company and profitable.


Yep...that is the history of maritime law - it is always the company's fault and the burden of proof is low. Many times it truly is the company's fault - dangerous conditions, lapse of repair, etc. This is one instance that I don't see the ship's fault. Open windows above a safety railing, are not unsafe. Veranda's do not have windows outboard.
There will be some grasping and hoping but it would be unwise for RCCL to settle which could then be construed as admitting fault. A bad president.
Yeah, but the grandfather's story has been shredded publicly now....  
Britt in VA : 2/26/2020 10:25 am : link
with visual proof, and that's why you're seeing the direction of the lawsuit change.
RE: Yeah, but the grandfather's story has been shredded publicly now....  
RC in MD : 2/26/2020 10:37 am : link
In comment 14819556 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
with visual proof, and that's why you're seeing the direction of the lawsuit change.


Of course. But when we are in denial about something so tragic, forcing RCCL to settle or even have the jury award you the damages validate your idea that it was still the fault of the "other" entity and not your own family member. We do crazy things when we are in denial, no matter how clear the evidence is. And in this case, only other explanation is that the family is out to profit, which is just too hard to accept even by the most cynical of observer. So the best explanation is that they are still trying to deflect the blame from their family to the big corporation, that "set up a dangerous environment."
I don't find it hard to accept that cashing in is at least somewhat of  
Greg from LI : 2/26/2020 10:47 am : link
a factor. They lost a child and feel that they are owed for that. Can't get restitution from the dipshit grandfather, so it's the cruise line that should pay even after overwhelming evidence emerges that this was 100% the result of the negligence of the grandfather.
RE: I don't find it hard to accept that cashing in is at least somewhat of  
RC in MD : 2/26/2020 10:52 am : link
In comment 14819575 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
a factor. They lost a child and feel that they are owed for that. Can't get restitution from the dipshit grandfather, so it's the cruise line that should pay even after overwhelming evidence emerges that this was 100% the result of the negligence of the grandfather.


Man...you're one cynical motherf'er...lol
No evidence, just a feeling...  
BamaBlue : 2/26/2020 10:58 am : link
could the family removed from the actions against Royal Caribbean? Perhaps they're sitting back and it's the lawyers pushing the case forward. Anyway... that position makes Greg seem a lot less cynical ")
I am cynical, yes  
Greg from LI : 2/26/2020 11:08 am : link
But I just can't believe that they aren't dropping the lawsuit now that it's been conclusively proven that their child died not because of any negligence on the part of Royal Caribbean, but because her grandfather held her over a railing 100+ feet in the air.

None of us who haven't been through such a tragedy know how we would handle it, but I'd like to think I'd be more rational about it and not lash out by blaming people who weren't at fault.
RE: I am cynical, yes  
RC in MD : 2/26/2020 11:23 am : link
In comment 14819604 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
But I just can't believe that they aren't dropping the lawsuit now that it's been conclusively proven that their child died not because of any negligence on the part of Royal Caribbean, but because her grandfather held her over a railing 100+ feet in the air.

None of us who haven't been through such a tragedy know how we would handle it, but I'd like to think I'd be more rational about it and not lash out by blaming people who weren't at fault.


Have you dealt with other parents? Man, talk about a total lack of ability to accept accountability. If parents can't accept the fact that they suck as parents and that their kids are little assholes at school, then why would you ever think that people will be able to look honestly and accept the fact that their trusted family member was a total idiotic asshole, who basically killed their daughter with his stupidity? People have more than a strong ability to deflect any form of accountability on themselves or their loved ones by blaming others...it happens every single day.
RE: RE: I am cynical, yes  
Spider56 : 2/26/2020 11:43 am : link
In comment 14819646 RC in MD said:
Quote:
In comment 14819604 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


But I just can't believe that they aren't dropping the lawsuit now that it's been conclusively proven that their child died not because of any negligence on the part of Royal Caribbean, but because her grandfather held her over a railing 100+ feet in the air.

None of us who haven't been through such a tragedy know how we would handle it, but I'd like to think I'd be more rational about it and not lash out by blaming people who weren't at fault.



Have you dealt with other parents? Man, talk about a total lack of ability to accept accountability. If parents can't accept the fact that they suck as parents and that their kids are little assholes at school, then why would you ever think that people will be able to look honestly and accept the fact that their trusted family member was a total idiotic asshole, who basically killed their daughter with his stupidity? People have more than a strong ability to deflect any form of accountability on themselves or their loved ones by blaming others...it happens every single day.


+1 .... and you can believe the parents got ‘objective’ legal advice too ...LOL
I have a Thought  
BobA : 2/26/2020 12:23 pm : link
Could it be the family's lawyer/s are saying if you drop the case you get nothing and we have all these billable hours you have to pay. So continue the case and hope/expect RCL to at least cover your costs.
There may be an element to this  
Mike from Ohio : 2/26/2020 1:16 pm : link
that if the parents can make the cruise line do anything - even putting up a sticker that says "watch small children" near windows, they will feel that their child's death at least saved other lives. I think that is not correct, but I think they may just be looking for some meaning in their child's death beyond "step-grandpa is an idiot."
If it’s just the fact that the window is open  
Bill L : 2/26/2020 4:03 pm : link
I wonder ow they will handle there being an entire top deck that doesn’t have open windows but only because there’s no windows at all. Just the railing over which you’re still not supposed to dangle your children.
RE: I have a Thought  
Milton : 2/26/2020 4:12 pm : link
In comment 14819750 BobA said:
Quote:
Could it be the family's lawyer/s are saying if you drop the case you get nothing and we have all these billable hours you have to pay. So continue the case and hope/expect RCL to at least cover your costs.
It was probably all contingency based where the lawyers get 1/3 of the settlement money. No billable hours.

p.s.--I haven't followed this story. What happened? The grandfather dangled the child out the window and accidentally let go?
RE: There may be an element to this  
Matt M. : 2/26/2020 4:15 pm : link
In comment 14819838 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
that if the parents can make the cruise line do anything - even putting up a sticker that says "watch small children" near windows, they will feel that their child's death at least saved other lives. I think that is not correct, but I think they may just be looking for some meaning in their child's death beyond "step-grandpa is an idiot."
I call bullshit. They don't care about a sticker. They want a payday. And, this situation doesn't warrant a fucking sticker, sign, etc.
Eh...  
RC in MD : 2/26/2020 4:19 pm : link
I'm not so cynical that they're trying to get rich off of this tragedy, and I'm not so understanding that they're trying to find a bit of meaning in their child's tragic death by setting a new safety standard. I'm a believer in the more basic human emotion of not wanting to accept the reality that their family member was so stupid and irresponsible that it result in their daughter's death because how do you forgive him for it? They would rather the big faceless entity accept the blame for the death so that they can deflect the blame from their personally connected person to the impersonal multi-billion dollar company. It's easier to accept something so crazily tragic that way.
A few thoughts  
Matt M. : 2/26/2020 4:29 pm : link
1) It wasn't just that video showed him dangling the child, but it also showed that he knew the window was open before ever picking up the child. So, he knowingly dangled his toddler grandchild out an open window 12 stories up.

2) I never thought Royal Caribbean should entertain a settlement. After the video and other evidence was revealed, I feel even more strongly about that.
What would make any rational adult think  
montanagiant : 2/26/2020 4:44 pm : link
That it's a good idea to hold a 2yr old child (who's most likely squirming) out of a window from 13 stories up?

The guy should be charged with manslaughter at the very least
RC in MD  
rmc3981 : 2/26/2020 4:47 pm : link
+1...100 percent correct in your assessment.
RE: There may be an element to this  
montanagiant : 2/26/2020 4:47 pm : link
In comment 14819838 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
that if the parents can make the cruise line do anything - even putting up a sticker that says "watch small children" near windows, they will feel that their child's death at least saved other lives. I think that is not correct, but I think they may just be looking for some meaning in their child's death beyond "step-grandpa is an idiot."

I'm sure that's already being done on all cruise lines but I agree with your point about looking for meaning
I can't even begin to imagine how painful losing a child would be  
steve in ky : 2/26/2020 4:54 pm : link
But I can't help but believe that this family would be in a much better place right now had they only went about grieving privately and never filed a lawsuit.

I never went along with the merits of the lawsuit but I don't like to be judgmental because who knows how much of their actions weren't/aren't directly because of the grief. There has to be a tremendous amount of guilt from all of them and the grandfather and his daughters will never have the same relationship again as it's been forever altered.

Someone should have counseled them to take time alone to grieve before they reacted publicly. There actions have only made things harder for them which is sad.
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