At the time, it was a good trade for Ogletree, not far removed from pro bowl status. Imo.
no it wasn't
Try giving a reason or what’s the point of your post. Giving up a 4th and a 6th (getting a 7th) for a rather young, pro bowl caliber player (at the time) is not a bad investment at all. As it turns out, he wasn’t what we had hoped for. It happens.
We got Ogletree and a 7th rd pick and gave up a 4th and 6th. I dont think it was a bad trade.
The Giants got nothing out of Ogletree. That's a bad trade.
He was OK in 2018 and had some good games plus he had 5 INTs and 2 TDs. i wouldnt call that nothing. heading into the 2019 many sites had him ranked in the 10-15 range of inside LBs. He was worth the trade but just like a lot of players in Betchers D they underperformed. Was it the players or the scheme?
when he was likely bidding against himself. It felt like a desperate move for a new GM, one of many he's made.
And this against the backdrop, very flawed, that they needed players of his age/experience/productivity to make the Giants competitive in 2018. Not a good look at all.
Complain about these guys, then complain about dead money or lost picks when they get cut.
This needed to happen. Short of a fucking time machine this is the only way forward, cut the players and try again.
Every GM misses some.
Now before you accuse me if being a DG apologist, I likely would have moved on from him if it were my decision, but at the same time I'm aware that I'm not a professional talent evaluator. Some of you have no self awareness or ability to reason.
have to laugh a little bit about Joe Judge saying "everyone has a clean slate."
No they don't.
Don't take a specific remark too literally.
He also made clear you don't ask vets to train youngsters or to change culture. If that was why you were brought in, you are on the bubble.
when he was likely bidding against himself. It felt like a desperate move for a new GM, one of many he's made.
And this against the backdrop, very flawed, that they needed players of his age/experience/productivity to make the Giants competitive in 2018. Not a good look at all.
DG truly thought they could contend in 2018, so many of his evaluations and decisions were ... rusty.
have to laugh a little bit about Joe Judge saying "everyone has a clean slate."
No they don't.
They did until they put the game film on. I imagine that the evaluation was done with "would I potentially keep this guy at his current salary?" Clearly the answer for Ogletree and Martin was "No."
If they were young guys and relatively cheap with the same performance? They may have gotten a chance to come in and show improvement with the new staff.
really makes me mistrust DG. Ogletree at least was a starter with the Rams and then with the Giants.
Martin started a grand total of 14 games on a godawful Cards defense in his first 4 seasons. He then proceeds to start for a grand total of 7 games over 2 seasons for the Giants. Gettleman signed him to a contract which results in a $6M cap hit in 2019. Meanwhile, we have a stopgap RT signing at crucial position earning under $2M and Gettleman is busy restructuring Solder's contract because we have no room for in-season moves. Farcical incompetence.
The only excuse I see is that DG was battling cancer during the Martin signing.
some of you guys are so ridiculously critical of DG it seems youd rather him fail then the team succeed. hindsight is a beautiful thing isnt it?
Ogletree turned out to be a bad signing but its impact is manageable, we have been an absolute barren wasteland at LB for yrs, there was an opportunity to bring a talented player with good track record to the team, so Gettleman did simple as that. it didnt work out and now weve moved on. what is the alternative, sit on our thumb and keep running out stiffs like Uani Unga?? They gotta jump on opportunities as they come, why is everyone so confident he was getting cut and even if thats true similar to LW, theres no guarantee theyd sign with us.
The 4th rounder is not on their team anymbore and the 6th rounder has rushed for 83 yards in two years.
Just wasted a bunch of crap room and future cap room. I wonder how much cap space we have in dead space from Olgeltree. Converting his salary into a bonus probably hurt.
along with Bethea, Mauro, Pierre, Buchannon etc. Only Golden produced. DG has to stop relying on the buddy system to find NFL vets. There's lots of guys out there, watch some film or listen to your Pro Personnel Dept.
for a declining player with a big cap hit and now we have dead money this coming season. Nice one Dave!
Of course, hindsight seems to be a useful tool, but that's not important right now. Neither is the lack of coaching or surrounding talent or that Ogletree wasn't half bad in 2018--all that matters is we must hang DG in effigy.
This move was a fucking blip. Every single veteran player in the NFL makes a lot of money. Ogltree was too. He was a stop gap move. Time to move on. If I had a dollar for every one of these "awful" moves that the best GMs ever have made, i'd be rich.
have to laugh a little bit about Joe Judge saying "everyone has a clean slate."
No they don't.
After I read that quote from him yesterday I was worried these moves may not happen. Thankfully the Giants used some common sense and made the correct business move here.
I do recall much sentiment expressed that, finally, the Giants were paying attention to the LB corps. The LB corps had been a joke and a laughingstock.
So, I don't mean to say it was a great trade. I guess I'm saying remember the intangibles of the deal. And remember the state of the LBs at the time and for several years prior.
Good start to the purge of overpaid shitheads. Next up hopefully Ellison and Bethea. That would represent the best bang for our buck on cuts. Guys that return nearly a 3:1 ratio of cap savings to dead money. This is the reason Solder should stay plus we have no one that can play OT besides him and Maybe Gates on the roster right now.
for a declining player with a big cap hit and now we have dead money this coming season. Nice one Dave!
Of course, hindsight seems to be a useful tool, but that's not important right now. Neither is the lack of coaching or surrounding talent or that Ogletree wasn't half bad in 2018--all that matters is we must hang DG in effigy.
This move was a fucking blip. Every single veteran player in the NFL makes a lot of money. Ogltree was too. He was a stop gap move. Time to move on. If I had a dollar for every one of these "awful" moves that the best GMs ever have made, i'd be rich.
for a declining player with a big cap hit and now we have dead money this coming season. Nice one Dave!
Of course, hindsight seems to be a useful tool, but that's not important right now. Neither is the lack of coaching or surrounding talent or that Ogletree wasn't half bad in 2018--all that matters is we must hang DG in effigy.
This move was a fucking blip. Every single veteran player in the NFL makes a lot of money. Ogltree was too. He was a stop gap move. Time to move on. If I had a dollar for every one of these "awful" moves that the best GMs ever have made, i'd be rich.
I agree, I didn’t think this was a bad trade when it was made. Ogletree has been a solid player and was also young. Many on here wanted us to draft him coming out of college.
I understood the logic behind the Ogletree trade. Gettleman bet his talent evaluation and his staff could get value. He turned out to be wrong, but not a tragedy.
That Martin acquisition was real bad. The Giants replaced Kennard with a worse player, and paid more.
Kennard isn't a super star, but he was solid and has played a lot and produced in Detroit. Martin got benched and then hurt. Eek.
for a declining player with a big cap hit and now we have dead money this coming season. Nice one Dave!
Of course, hindsight seems to be a useful tool, but that's not important right now. Neither is the lack of coaching or surrounding talent or that Ogletree wasn't half bad in 2018--all that matters is we must hang DG in effigy.
This move was a fucking blip. Every single veteran player in the NFL makes a lot of money. Ogltree was too. He was a stop gap move. Time to move on. If I had a dollar for every one of these "awful" moves that the best GMs ever have made, i'd be rich.
I agree, I didn’t think this was a bad trade when it was made. Ogletree has been a solid player and was also young. Many on here wanted us to draft him coming out of college.
* had been a solid player.
As mentioned by bullet above, the Ogletree signing
does indeed go in the L column for Gettleman. He had well below average year in 2017 and that's why the Rams wanted to shed him for the guys they really wanted to sign (yes a scheme change too but lets be real as to the bigger reason).
Gettleman also gave up a net draft pick (I think 2 for 1), but took on a big salary hit for a guy that simply didn't play well here at all for two years.
Last season Ogletree got caught looking foolish way too many times in both run and pass.
I understood the logic behind the Ogletree trade. Gettleman bet his talent evaluation and his staff could get value. He turned out to be wrong, but not a tragedy.
That Martin acquisition was real bad. The Giants replaced Kennard with a worse player, and paid more.
Kennard isn't a super star, but he was solid and has played a lot and produced in Detroit. Martin got benched and then hurt. Eek.
All of those Cardinal players were busts with the exception of Golden who had a decent season last year. Martin was a trainwreck.
And can we please stop referring to everyone that doesn't
Quote:
At the time, it was a good trade for Ogletree, not far removed from pro bowl status. Imo.
no it wasn't
Try giving a reason or what’s the point of your post. Giving up a 4th and a 6th (getting a 7th) for a rather young, pro bowl caliber player (at the time) is not a bad investment at all. As it turns out, he wasn’t what we had hoped for. It happens.
3? 4? 5, tops?
Um. Gettleman traded for Ogletree, not Reese.
Both were brought aboard by Dave Gettleman.
At the time he was a 26 yr old really good player, at a position of need. That is the type of player you try to get.
Unfortunately, he turned out to be a lesser player when traded here
Martin was brought in for/by the DC and was just not good from the start.
Move on.
Quote:
THE GETTLEMASTER GETTING IT DONE
Both were brought aboard by Dave Gettleman.
True, but he only had to bring them in because Reese left the roster in such a mess. So you see it's really still all Reese's fault.
Quote:
In comment 14819630 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
the Ogletree trade goes in the L column.
We got Ogletree and a 7th rd pick and gave up a 4th and 6th. I dont think it was a bad trade.
The Giants got nothing out of Ogletree. That's a bad trade.
He was OK in 2018 and had some good games plus he had 5 INTs and 2 TDs. i wouldnt call that nothing. heading into the 2019 many sites had him ranked in the 10-15 range of inside LBs. He was worth the trade but just like a lot of players in Betchers D they underperformed. Was it the players or the scheme?
thats not how you evaluate a trade
we might have picked those exact players and Ogletree was expensive towards the CAP for his production.
It was an L for DG, plain and simple.
QB Hits < LW
I think there is zero interest among the decision makers for making such a move.
Neither do I. I was joking with that post. And, I do not hope Dave franchises LW.
😎
those would be immediate power moves
CAP Space increases to about 75 million with these 2 moves.
@BigBlueInteract
·
8s
#Giants could also create further cap room by cutting:
Tight End Rhett Ellison ($5,000,000)
Safety Antoine Bethea ($2,750,000)
Center Spencer Pulley ($2,750,000)
No they don't.
No they don't.
I said this yesterday, everyone has a clean slate who they are allowing to come to camp.. ;)
Quote:
In comment 14819704 Justlurking said:
Quote:
THE GETTLEMASTER GETTING IT DONE
Both were brought aboard by Dave Gettleman.
True, but he only had to bring them in because Reese left the roster in such a mess. So you see it's really still all Reese's fault.
^ this guy gets it. DG is not responsible for anything. Ever.
Please see above argument that he did not trade anything for Ogeltree because the players that LA drafted with the picks turned out to be garbage...
I think there is zero interest among the decision makers for making such a move.
Seems like the last guy Judge would want on this roster.
No they don't.
Everyone (who remains with the team until training camp) has a clean slate
This needed to happen. Short of a fucking time machine this is the only way forward, cut the players and try again.
Every GM misses some.
Now before you accuse me if being a DG apologist, I likely would have moved on from him if it were my decision, but at the same time I'm aware that I'm not a professional talent evaluator. Some of you have no self awareness or ability to reason.
No they don't.
Don't take a specific remark too literally.
He also made clear you don't ask vets to train youngsters or to change culture. If that was why you were brought in, you are on the bubble.
Let me clarify, I definitely think its best we released him but I don't think he anywhere near as bad as some are saying
Quote:
when he was likely bidding against himself. It felt like a desperate move for a new GM, one of many he's made.
And this against the backdrop, very flawed, that they needed players of his age/experience/productivity to make the Giants competitive in 2018. Not a good look at all.
DG truly thought they could contend in 2018, so many of his evaluations and decisions were ... rusty.
No they don't.
They did until they put the game film on. I imagine that the evaluation was done with "would I potentially keep this guy at his current salary?" Clearly the answer for Ogletree and Martin was "No."
If they were young guys and relatively cheap with the same performance? They may have gotten a chance to come in and show improvement with the new staff.
@BigBlueInteract
·
8s
#Giants could also create further cap room by cutting:
Tight End Rhett Ellison ($5,000,000)
Safety Antoine Bethea ($2,750,000)
Center Spencer Pulley ($2,750,000)
This, although I think Pulley is back. The other two will be gone, especially with the emergence of Kaden Smith.
Martin started a grand total of 14 games on a godawful Cards defense in his first 4 seasons. He then proceeds to start for a grand total of 7 games over 2 seasons for the Giants. Gettleman signed him to a contract which results in a $6M cap hit in 2019. Meanwhile, we have a stopgap RT signing at crucial position earning under $2M and Gettleman is busy restructuring Solder's contract because we have no room for in-season moves. Farcical incompetence.
The only excuse I see is that DG was battling cancer during the Martin signing.
Ogletree turned out to be a bad signing but its impact is manageable, we have been an absolute barren wasteland at LB for yrs, there was an opportunity to bring a talented player with good track record to the team, so Gettleman did simple as that. it didnt work out and now weve moved on. what is the alternative, sit on our thumb and keep running out stiffs like Uani Unga?? They gotta jump on opportunities as they come, why is everyone so confident he was getting cut and even if thats true similar to LW, theres no guarantee theyd sign with us.
Quote:
In comment 14819709 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14819704 Justlurking said:
Quote:
THE GETTLEMASTER GETTING IT DONE
Both were brought aboard by Dave Gettleman.
True, but he only had to bring them in because Reese left the roster in such a mess. So you see it's really still all Reese's fault.
^ this guy gets it. DG is not responsible for anything. Ever.
Please see above argument that he did not trade anything for Ogeltree because the players that LA drafted with the picks turned out to be garbage...
What about the cap difference in terms of what we paid AO vs those draft picks? Could we have used that $25 millions to get an OL?
Quote:
The 4th rounder is not on their team anymbore and the 6th rounder has rushed for 83 yards in two years.
Just wasted a bunch of crap room and future cap room. I wonder how much cap space we have in dead space from Olgeltree. Converting his salary into a bonus probably hurt.
there's nothing worse than wasting crap room.
Of course, hindsight seems to be a useful tool, but that's not important right now. Neither is the lack of coaching or surrounding talent or that Ogletree wasn't half bad in 2018--all that matters is we must hang DG in effigy.
This move was a fucking blip. Every single veteran player in the NFL makes a lot of money. Ogltree was too. He was a stop gap move. Time to move on. If I had a dollar for every one of these "awful" moves that the best GMs ever have made, i'd be rich.
No they don't.
After I read that quote from him yesterday I was worried these moves may not happen. Thankfully the Giants used some common sense and made the correct business move here.
I do recall much sentiment expressed that, finally, the Giants were paying attention to the LB corps. The LB corps had been a joke and a laughingstock.
So, I don't mean to say it was a great trade. I guess I'm saying remember the intangibles of the deal. And remember the state of the LBs at the time and for several years prior.
No they don't.
If they did, that would make for a terrible draft.
Quote:
for a declining player with a big cap hit and now we have dead money this coming season. Nice one Dave!
Of course, hindsight seems to be a useful tool, but that's not important right now. Neither is the lack of coaching or surrounding talent or that Ogletree wasn't half bad in 2018--all that matters is we must hang DG in effigy.
This move was a fucking blip. Every single veteran player in the NFL makes a lot of money. Ogltree was too. He was a stop gap move. Time to move on. If I had a dollar for every one of these "awful" moves that the best GMs ever have made, i'd be rich.
in other words, dumb moves are ok? Tell me more!
Quote:
for a declining player with a big cap hit and now we have dead money this coming season. Nice one Dave!
Of course, hindsight seems to be a useful tool, but that's not important right now. Neither is the lack of coaching or surrounding talent or that Ogletree wasn't half bad in 2018--all that matters is we must hang DG in effigy.
This move was a fucking blip. Every single veteran player in the NFL makes a lot of money. Ogltree was too. He was a stop gap move. Time to move on. If I had a dollar for every one of these "awful" moves that the best GMs ever have made, i'd be rich.
I agree, I didn’t think this was a bad trade when it was made. Ogletree has been a solid player and was also young. Many on here wanted us to draft him coming out of college.
That Martin acquisition was real bad. The Giants replaced Kennard with a worse player, and paid more.
Kennard isn't a super star, but he was solid and has played a lot and produced in Detroit. Martin got benched and then hurt. Eek.
Quote:
In comment 14819658 Enzo said:
Quote:
for a declining player with a big cap hit and now we have dead money this coming season. Nice one Dave!
Of course, hindsight seems to be a useful tool, but that's not important right now. Neither is the lack of coaching or surrounding talent or that Ogletree wasn't half bad in 2018--all that matters is we must hang DG in effigy.
This move was a fucking blip. Every single veteran player in the NFL makes a lot of money. Ogltree was too. He was a stop gap move. Time to move on. If I had a dollar for every one of these "awful" moves that the best GMs ever have made, i'd be rich.
I agree, I didn’t think this was a bad trade when it was made. Ogletree has been a solid player and was also young. Many on here wanted us to draft him coming out of college.
* had been a solid player.
Gettleman also gave up a net draft pick (I think 2 for 1), but took on a big salary hit for a guy that simply didn't play well here at all for two years.
Last season Ogletree got caught looking foolish way too many times in both run and pass.
Bad linebacker play continues to haunt this team.
That Martin acquisition was real bad. The Giants replaced Kennard with a worse player, and paid more.
Kennard isn't a super star, but he was solid and has played a lot and produced in Detroit. Martin got benched and then hurt. Eek.
All of those Cardinal players were busts with the exception of Golden who had a decent season last year. Martin was a trainwreck.
Ogletree was signed to be the leader of this defense and was paid as the 5th or so highest salary of all Inside LBs in the league.
He was not a stop-gap...he was just another signing that kind of sucked.