Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
·
1h
The Giants currently have just $23.2M of their cap space for 2020 allotted to their defense. That’s less than Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald will count against their teams' cap. It's by far the least in the NFL, with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers next on the list at $42.9M.
Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
·
1h
The Giants currently have just $23.2M of their cap space for 2020 allotted to their defense. That’s less than Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald will count against their teams' cap. It's by far the least in the NFL, with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers next on the list at $42.9M.
I saw this - how crazy is that?
That explains a lot about why the defense was so terrible last year.
Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
·
1h
The Giants currently have just $23.2M of their cap space for 2020 allotted to their defense. That’s less than Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald will count against their teams' cap. It's by far the least in the NFL, with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers next on the list at $42.9M.
If only there was a Defensive Tackle we could sign at above market prices to help us catch up.
Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
·
1h
The Giants currently have just $23.2M of their cap space for 2020 allotted to their defense. That’s less than Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald will count against their teams' cap. It's by far the least in the NFL, with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers next on the list at $42.9M.
If only there was a Defensive Tackle we could sign at above market prices to help us catch up.
Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
·
1h
The Giants currently have just $23.2M of their cap space for 2020 allotted to their defense. That’s less than Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald will count against their teams' cap. It's by far the least in the NFL, with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers next on the list at $42.9M.
Nice work cherry picking that stat. He couldn't wait to post that one I bet. It was probably driving him nuts that the Giants waited so long to cut these 2 guys.
The Giants also have 50 million more in cap space then those teams.
Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
·
1h
The Giants currently have just $23.2M of their cap space for 2020 allotted to their defense. That’s less than Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald will count against their teams' cap. It's by far the least in the NFL, with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers next on the list at $42.9M.
That's why I thought Bettcher got a raw deal. I don't think he's any great shakes, but with the roster he was given, what could you expect from him?
Hopefully the Giants find useful defensive players to overspend on.
And grow our LBs like the winning teams do!! No need to spend half the cap on ILBs and use that money to sign a couple of OLs!! I fear that might just make too much sense for Giants fans though...
Of that group, I don't believe a single of these 22 players clearly upgraded over the incumbent at the position.
Quote:
LB/DE Kareem Martin (Signed by Giants; 3-Years, $15 million)
LT Nate Solder (Signed by Giants; 4-Years, $62 million)
OG Patrick Omameh (Signed by Giants; 3-Years, $15 million)
CB Curtis Riley (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $630,000 salary)
WR Cody Latimer (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $2.5 million)
S Michael Thomas (Signed by Giants; 2-Years, $4 million)
TE Scott Simonson (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $705,000 salary)
OG Zac Kerin (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $630,000 salary)
LB Connor Barwin (Signed by Giants; 2-Years, $5 million)
CB Leonard Johnson (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $790,000 salary)
RB Jonathan Stewart (Signed by Giants; 2-Years, $6.9 million)
CB Teddy Williams (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $880,000)
CB B.W. Webb (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $815,000)
DE Josh Mauro (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $880,000)
CB William Gay (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $1.105 million)
QB Alex Tanney (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $555,000 salary)
DT A.J. Francis (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $705,000 salary)
S Orion Stewart (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $480,000 salary)
WR Russell Shepard (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $1.25 million)
OT Jarron Jones (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $480,000 salary)
NT John Jenkins (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $790,000 salary)
LB Nate Stupar (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $850,000 salary)
for a declining player with a big cap hit and now we have dead money this coming season. Nice one Dave!
Of course, hindsight seems to be a useful tool, but that's not important right now. Neither is the lack of coaching or surrounding talent or that Ogletree wasn't half bad in 2018--all that matters is we must hang DG in effigy.
This move was a fucking blip. Every single veteran player in the NFL makes a lot of money. Ogltree was too. He was a stop gap move. Time to move on. If I had a dollar for every one of these "awful" moves that the best GMs ever have made, i'd be rich.
in other words, dumb moves are ok? Tell me more!
OK, it wasn't really a dumb move.
Want more? It was a stop gap move that didn't help the team much. IT also didn't really hurt the team much.
Not every move is dumb. Some are just moves.
Releasing ed mccaffery essntially to sign Mark Jackson and worse yet, Arthur Marshall? Dumb. Very dumb. Signing a 27-28 year old LB who was coming off a good year, at the expense of a 4th round pick and some money, while hoping he can hold the fort for a few years? I wouldnt call that dumb. I'd call it meh, time to move on.
Bettcher lobbied for a bunch of Arizona Cardinals who flopped in this defense.
Raw deal?
He's still unemployed as far as I know.
He did - but did he have any alternative?
This wasn't a case of Dan Reeves turning the Giants into the Jersey Broncos. He brought on a low-mid cost stop gap (Bethea), suggested the hiring of Martin and Golden. Golden more than earned his keep. The "best" player you could argue was displaced as a result was Devon Kennard.
They stripped the defense bare in an attempt to rid themselves of 'bad characters', and didn't bother to rebuild it.
but I don't care about those moves anymore. That team wasn't going anywhere even if they hit 1-2-3 HRs during that span. I also don't think it's really that hard to sign an expensive and talented vet FA. Nor do I think it's an indictable offense if a guy like Ogletree underwhelms. I'd prefer overwhelming results but I don't think DG is incapable of finding vet FA talent. I guess we will see but the guy pulled Golden and Tate and many good looking mid to late round picks. He can have a good 2020 offseason.
Signing a 27-28 year old LB who was coming off a good year, at the expense of a 4th round pick and some money, while hoping he can hold the fort for a few years? I wouldnt call that dumb. I'd call it meh, time to move on.
You love to bash. Bash away.
I don't believe you'll find much supporting information on that claim.
for a declining player with a big cap hit and now we have dead money this coming season. Nice one Dave!
Of course, hindsight seems to be a useful tool, but that's not important right now. Neither is the lack of coaching or surrounding talent or that Ogletree wasn't half bad in 2018--all that matters is we must hang DG in effigy.
This move was a fucking blip. Every single veteran player in the NFL makes a lot of money. Ogltree was too. He was a stop gap move. Time to move on. If I had a dollar for every one of these "awful" moves that the best GMs ever have made, i'd be rich.
in other words, dumb moves are ok? Tell me more!
OK, it wasn't really a dumb move.
Want more? It was a stop gap move that didn't help the team much. IT also didn't really hurt the team much.
Not every move is dumb. Some are just moves.
Releasing ed mccaffery essntially to sign Mark Jackson and worse yet, Arthur Marshall? Dumb. Very dumb. Signing a 27-28 year old LB who was coming off a good year, at the expense of a 4th round pick and some money, while hoping he can hold the fort for a few years? I wouldnt call that dumb. I'd call it meh, time to move on.
You love to bash. Bash away.
so it's smart to use draft picks AND significant cap money to get a guy who's not all that good? I had no idea! I'm just spitballing here, but maybe they could have just used the cap money to sign a mediocre linebacker? Hell, they could have signed two or three of them! And then they'd still have those draft picks!
not that many even complained here until he flashed in Detroit. Even then, he's more or less a 4-3 SAM and a rigid piece who only plays ok downhill. All in all, let go a very average player.
so it's smart to use draft picks AND significant cap money to get a guy who's not all that good? I had no idea! I'm just spitballing here, but maybe they could have just used the cap money to sign a mediocre linebacker? Hell, they could have signed two or three of them! And then they'd still have those draft picks!
Ogletree was a good linebacker and a starting LB for the Rams. A 4th and a 6th for him and a 7th is not a bad trade at all no matter how you cut it. He had a decent 2018 with 5 ints.
They did spend the money at get what turned out to be a mediocre LB so your point on that was not so good.
In the end he did not work out. Happens.
not that many even complained here until he flashed in Detroit. Even then, he's more or less a 4-3 SAM and a rigid piece who only plays ok downhill. All in all, let go a very average player.
The struggle for me is the corresponding investment in Martin, who to be kind wouldn't approach the tepid endorsement of Kennard.
The story for me is talent evaluation at the get-go, and so many swings and misses when trying to rehaul.
True, but he only had to bring them in because Reese left the roster in such a mess. So you see it's really still all Reese's fault.
^ this guy gets it. DG is not responsible for anything. Ever.
Please see above argument that he did not trade anything for Ogeltree because the players that LA drafted with the picks turned out to be garbage...
What about the cap difference in terms of what we paid AO vs those draft picks? Could we have used that $25 millions to get an OL?
No because you can't just "buy" an offensive line because the team needs one. It's not that easy is it? They have to be coached up in the right scheme...Nate Solder experienced this with the Giants.
They took a decent C and let him walk to save a million or two
then turned around and lit money on fire like trading picks for Ogletree, who likely would have been cut loose by the Rams regardless and available for no picks and a lower contract.
Then the cherry on the sundae, going with Halapio and Pulley at C.
I'm hoping that Judge and his staff are better at evaluating talent, because the Giants have been lacking for a very long time.
not that many even complained here until he flashed in Detroit. Even then, he's more or less a 4-3 SAM and a rigid piece who only plays ok downhill. All in all, let go a very average player.
The struggle for me is the corresponding investment in Martin, who to be kind wouldn't approach the tepid endorsement of Kennard.
The story for me is talent evaluation at the get-go, and so many swings and misses when trying to rehaul.
There's no argument Martin was a miss, in my book. The only thing you could say was they gambled on him ascending because the last season in AZ he flashed and looked the part.
In retrospect there were a couple of players in that pay range who've been pretty decent. Trent Murphy and Devon Kennard have been on the field and produced.
The biggest issue with Martin is there were no leading indicators from his time in Arizona he was an ascending player.
Jcn touches on the "touchy" subject of talent evaluation
Whereas I think we can all say that DG's success with free agents has been fairly bad, and that his draft evaluations have been better.
Is that a function of just being better at evaluations in the Draft, or just bad luck in free agency? Or is it really just the same eval process and good luck with Draft.
He has used a fair amount of his picks in the early rounds.
all logic points towards that being a Bettcher signing.
Fair, but there's got to be some sort of balance between getting the coaches the players they want and being the top dog who can identify when a player isn't going to be worth it to sign and telling the coach no.
But I agree that DG gets at least a partial pass for that, especially since it would have been another thing to criticize DG for if he DIDN'T get Bettcher his guys and some would undoubtedly be saying, "sure the coaches suck, but the GM isn't getting them the guys they want."
Like I said - I'm willing to give DG a pass on Bethea and Martin
Whereas I think we can all say that DG's success with free agents has been fairly bad, and that his draft evaluations have been better.
Is that a function of just being better at evaluations in the Draft, or just bad luck in free agency? Or is it really just the same eval process and good luck with Draft.
He has used a fair amount of his picks in the early rounds.
It should be said that when he was head of Pro Scouting under Accorsi, he did an excellent job of evaluating NFL talent available in free agency. At least that's what Accorsi has said and why he was recommended as GM.
at talent evaluation back then, both pro and college.
The question remains - what changed, sometime around 2012, that caused the whole operation to basically go off the rails? They have changed a lot since then, but for the most part the scouting department remains intact. I think it's fair to say that talent evaluation has been the Giants biggest issue the past 8 years, they're just not good at getting good players in the door.
at talent evaluation back then, both pro and college.
The question remains - what changed, sometime around 2012, that caused the whole operation to basically go off the rails? They have changed a lot since then, but for the most part the scouting department remains intact. I think it's fair to say that talent evaluation has been the Giants biggest issue the past 8 years, they're just not good at getting good players in the door.
In fairness, the quality of the fan base has degraded even more. Every swinging dick is now a starting Monday morning QB.
RE: RE: In fairness the Giants did a much better job
at talent evaluation back then, both pro and college.
The question remains - what changed, sometime around 2012, that caused the whole operation to basically go off the rails? They have changed a lot since then, but for the most part the scouting department remains intact. I think it's fair to say that talent evaluation has been the Giants biggest issue the past 8 years, they're just not good at getting good players in the door.
In fairness, the quality of the fan base has degraded even more. Every swinging dick is now a starting Monday morning QB.
Fairly certain that has not caused the degradation of the NYG franchise.
RE: RE: In fairness the Giants did a much better job
In fairness, the quality of the fan base has degraded even more. Every swinging dick is now a starting Monday morning QB.
The fanbase is just fine. The Giants comparatively speaking have been pretty damn bad. Over the past three years they've been making the Browns and Jets look competent in comparison.
You didn't have to be a MMQB or Nostradamus to know that the Giants were making some stupid fucking mistakes, like giving up draft picks to acquire a guy destined for FA in the midst of a losing season.
RE: They took a decent C and let him walk to save a million or two
then turned around and lit money on fire like trading picks for Ogletree, who likely would have been cut loose by the Rams regardless and available for no picks and a lower contract.
Then the cherry on the sundae, going with Halapio and Pulley at C.
I'm hoping that Judge and his staff are better at evaluating talent, because the Giants have been lacking for a very long time.
A "decent Center"?? He would have been getting paid like a mid-tier starter and he hasn't done that in SF. To call him "decent" while shitting on other players who were just as poor is really stretching things.
RE: They took a decent C and let him walk to save a million or two
then turned around and lit money on fire like trading picks for Ogletree, who likely would have been cut loose by the Rams regardless and available for no picks and a lower contract.
Then the cherry on the sundae, going with Halapio and Pulley at C.
I'm hoping that Judge and his staff are better at evaluating talent, because the Giants have been lacking for a very long time.
are we talking about Weston Richburg? He still hasn't played a full season - Richburg is really not the answer and hardly qualifies as being let go to save a million or two. He was widely panned for his inability to stay healthy and his inconsistency during the season when he was on the field.
Jones may not have been any great shakes - but they let Richburg walk (justifiable, given his new contract), traded Jones, and decided to go with the platoon of two journeymen.
Should anyone have been surprised at what happened at the center position?
Further - for a team that believes defense begins in the middle, spending high draft picks and large sums of money to shore it up - why on Earth would you believe that a strategy involving two dollar store players at C is a good idea?
Was the worst center in the NFL pre injury. Now he may be the worst center in all of football (college and xfl included). We must upgrade this position
No - not Richburg, Jones
jcn56 : 2/26/2020 11:28 pm : link : reply
Jones may not have been any great shakes - but they let Richburg walk (justifiable, given his new contract), traded Jones, and decided to go with the platoon of two journeymen.
Should anyone have been surprised at what happened at the center position?
It was basically a swap out of interchangeable parts. Jones has exactly 2 starts in the last two years with Minny and spent almost all of the past season out. If the answer isn't Halapio, the flipside of that isn't that Jones was.
collection of centers for the past 6-7 years might be the worst in the NFL.
Since the Giants won the SB in 2012 when David Baas (the last legit center they had) the following players have played and/or have been rostered by the Giants at Center:
2013 - Baas (3 games and then his career was done), Kevin Boothe, Dallas Reynolds, Jim Cordle
@JordanRaanan
·
1h
The Giants currently have just $23.2M of their cap space for 2020 allotted to their defense. That’s less than Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald will count against their teams' cap. It's by far the least in the NFL, with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers next on the list at $42.9M.
@JordanRaanan
·
1h
The Giants currently have just $23.2M of their cap space for 2020 allotted to their defense. That’s less than Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald will count against their teams' cap. It's by far the least in the NFL, with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers next on the list at $42.9M.
I saw this - how crazy is that?
That explains a lot about why the defense was so terrible last year.
@JordanRaanan
·
1h
The Giants currently have just $23.2M of their cap space for 2020 allotted to their defense. That’s less than Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald will count against their teams' cap. It's by far the least in the NFL, with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers next on the list at $42.9M.
If only there was a Defensive Tackle we could sign at above market prices to help us catch up.
:-)
Quote:
Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
·
1h
The Giants currently have just $23.2M of their cap space for 2020 allotted to their defense. That’s less than Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald will count against their teams' cap. It's by far the least in the NFL, with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers next on the list at $42.9M.
If only there was a Defensive Tackle we could sign at above market prices to help us catch up.
:-)
HAHAHHAHA - well played.
Draft Wills
No they don't.
In Joe’s defense..
He did say the players that come here in April in the main press interview . So a clean slate from that point on .
@JordanRaanan
·
1h
The Giants currently have just $23.2M of their cap space for 2020 allotted to their defense. That’s less than Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald will count against their teams' cap. It's by far the least in the NFL, with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers next on the list at $42.9M.
Nice work cherry picking that stat. He couldn't wait to post that one I bet. It was probably driving him nuts that the Giants waited so long to cut these 2 guys.
The Giants also have 50 million more in cap space then those teams.
@JordanRaanan
·
1h
The Giants currently have just $23.2M of their cap space for 2020 allotted to their defense. That’s less than Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald will count against their teams' cap. It's by far the least in the NFL, with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers next on the list at $42.9M.
That's why I thought Bettcher got a raw deal. I don't think he's any great shakes, but with the roster he was given, what could you expect from him?
Hopefully the Giants find useful defensive players to overspend on.
Raw deal?
He's still unemployed as far as I know.
Of that group, I don't believe a single of these 22 players clearly upgraded over the incumbent at the position.
LT Nate Solder (Signed by Giants; 4-Years, $62 million)
OG Patrick Omameh (Signed by Giants; 3-Years, $15 million)
CB Curtis Riley (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $630,000 salary)
WR Cody Latimer (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $2.5 million)
S Michael Thomas (Signed by Giants; 2-Years, $4 million)
TE Scott Simonson (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $705,000 salary)
OG Zac Kerin (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $630,000 salary)
LB Connor Barwin (Signed by Giants; 2-Years, $5 million)
CB Leonard Johnson (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $790,000 salary)
RB Jonathan Stewart (Signed by Giants; 2-Years, $6.9 million)
CB Teddy Williams (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $880,000)
CB B.W. Webb (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $815,000)
DE Josh Mauro (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $880,000)
CB William Gay (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $1.105 million)
QB Alex Tanney (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $555,000 salary)
DT A.J. Francis (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $705,000 salary)
S Orion Stewart (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $480,000 salary)
WR Russell Shepard (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $1.25 million)
OT Jarron Jones (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $480,000 salary)
NT John Jenkins (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $790,000 salary)
LB Nate Stupar (Signed by Giants; 1-Year, $850,000 salary)
Quote:
In comment 14819658 Enzo said:
Quote:
for a declining player with a big cap hit and now we have dead money this coming season. Nice one Dave!
Of course, hindsight seems to be a useful tool, but that's not important right now. Neither is the lack of coaching or surrounding talent or that Ogletree wasn't half bad in 2018--all that matters is we must hang DG in effigy.
This move was a fucking blip. Every single veteran player in the NFL makes a lot of money. Ogltree was too. He was a stop gap move. Time to move on. If I had a dollar for every one of these "awful" moves that the best GMs ever have made, i'd be rich.
in other words, dumb moves are ok? Tell me more!
OK, it wasn't really a dumb move.
Want more? It was a stop gap move that didn't help the team much. IT also didn't really hurt the team much.
Not every move is dumb. Some are just moves.
Releasing ed mccaffery essntially to sign Mark Jackson and worse yet, Arthur Marshall? Dumb. Very dumb. Signing a 27-28 year old LB who was coming off a good year, at the expense of a 4th round pick and some money, while hoping he can hold the fort for a few years? I wouldnt call that dumb. I'd call it meh, time to move on.
You love to bash. Bash away.
Raw deal?
He's still unemployed as far as I know.
He did - but did he have any alternative?
This wasn't a case of Dan Reeves turning the Giants into the Jersey Broncos. He brought on a low-mid cost stop gap (Bethea), suggested the hiring of Martin and Golden. Golden more than earned his keep. The "best" player you could argue was displaced as a result was Devon Kennard.
They stripped the defense bare in an attempt to rid themselves of 'bad characters', and didn't bother to rebuild it.
In comment 14819745 Eric from BBI said:
@BigBlueInteract
·
8s
#Giants could also create further cap room by cutting:
Tight End Rhett Ellison ($5,000,000)
Safety Antoine Bethea ($2,750,000)
Center Spencer Pulley ($2,750,000)
I am sure there are other players that we should have landed rather than some of the slobs we did land, but it's done now. I am looking forward.
Never rest on your laurels, 2016 wound up being an anomaly.
It also shows how young the Defensive Roster is. Most of the Defensive starters were on rookie contracts last year.
You love to bash. Bash away.
I don't believe you'll find much supporting information on that claim.
Quote:
In comment 14819855 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 14819658 Enzo said:
Quote:
for a declining player with a big cap hit and now we have dead money this coming season. Nice one Dave!
Of course, hindsight seems to be a useful tool, but that's not important right now. Neither is the lack of coaching or surrounding talent or that Ogletree wasn't half bad in 2018--all that matters is we must hang DG in effigy.
This move was a fucking blip. Every single veteran player in the NFL makes a lot of money. Ogltree was too. He was a stop gap move. Time to move on. If I had a dollar for every one of these "awful" moves that the best GMs ever have made, i'd be rich.
in other words, dumb moves are ok? Tell me more!
OK, it wasn't really a dumb move.
Want more? It was a stop gap move that didn't help the team much. IT also didn't really hurt the team much.
Not every move is dumb. Some are just moves.
Releasing ed mccaffery essntially to sign Mark Jackson and worse yet, Arthur Marshall? Dumb. Very dumb. Signing a 27-28 year old LB who was coming off a good year, at the expense of a 4th round pick and some money, while hoping he can hold the fort for a few years? I wouldnt call that dumb. I'd call it meh, time to move on.
You love to bash. Bash away.
so it's smart to use draft picks AND significant cap money to get a guy who's not all that good? I had no idea! I'm just spitballing here, but maybe they could have just used the cap money to sign a mediocre linebacker? Hell, they could have signed two or three of them! And then they'd still have those draft picks!
Il iked him and wished it had worked out, but imo, it was far from malpractice to move on
so it's smart to use draft picks AND significant cap money to get a guy who's not all that good? I had no idea! I'm just spitballing here, but maybe they could have just used the cap money to sign a mediocre linebacker? Hell, they could have signed two or three of them! And then they'd still have those draft picks!
Ogletree was a good linebacker and a starting LB for the Rams. A 4th and a 6th for him and a 7th is not a bad trade at all no matter how you cut it. He had a decent 2018 with 5 ints.
They did spend the money at get what turned out to be a mediocre LB so your point on that was not so good.
In the end he did not work out. Happens.
The struggle for me is the corresponding investment in Martin, who to be kind wouldn't approach the tepid endorsement of Kennard.
The story for me is talent evaluation at the get-go, and so many swings and misses when trying to rehaul.
Quote:
In comment 14819716 Tesla said:
Quote:
In comment 14819709 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14819704 Justlurking said:
Quote:
THE GETTLEMASTER GETTING IT DONE
Both were brought aboard by Dave Gettleman.
True, but he only had to bring them in because Reese left the roster in such a mess. So you see it's really still all Reese's fault.
^ this guy gets it. DG is not responsible for anything. Ever.
Please see above argument that he did not trade anything for Ogeltree because the players that LA drafted with the picks turned out to be garbage...
What about the cap difference in terms of what we paid AO vs those draft picks? Could we have used that $25 millions to get an OL?
No because you can't just "buy" an offensive line because the team needs one. It's not that easy is it? They have to be coached up in the right scheme...Nate Solder experienced this with the Giants.
Then the cherry on the sundae, going with Halapio and Pulley at C.
I'm hoping that Judge and his staff are better at evaluating talent, because the Giants have been lacking for a very long time.
Quote:
not that many even complained here until he flashed in Detroit. Even then, he's more or less a 4-3 SAM and a rigid piece who only plays ok downhill. All in all, let go a very average player.
The struggle for me is the corresponding investment in Martin, who to be kind wouldn't approach the tepid endorsement of Kennard.
The story for me is talent evaluation at the get-go, and so many swings and misses when trying to rehaul.
There's no argument Martin was a miss, in my book. The only thing you could say was they gambled on him ascending because the last season in AZ he flashed and looked the part.
In retrospect there were a couple of players in that pay range who've been pretty decent. Trent Murphy and Devon Kennard have been on the field and produced.
The biggest issue with Martin is there were no leading indicators from his time in Arizona he was an ascending player.
Is that a function of just being better at evaluations in the Draft, or just bad luck in free agency? Or is it really just the same eval process and good luck with Draft.
He has used a fair amount of his picks in the early rounds.
Fair, but there's got to be some sort of balance between getting the coaches the players they want and being the top dog who can identify when a player isn't going to be worth it to sign and telling the coach no.
But I agree that DG gets at least a partial pass for that, especially since it would have been another thing to criticize DG for if he DIDN'T get Bettcher his guys and some would undoubtedly be saying, "sure the coaches suck, but the GM isn't getting them the guys they want."
Of course - the flipside of that is I credit Bettcher for the only FA success of DG's tenure with the Giants, Markus Golden.
Is that a function of just being better at evaluations in the Draft, or just bad luck in free agency? Or is it really just the same eval process and good luck with Draft.
He has used a fair amount of his picks in the early rounds.
It's perplexing why this is such a weakness now.
The question remains - what changed, sometime around 2012, that caused the whole operation to basically go off the rails? They have changed a lot since then, but for the most part the scouting department remains intact. I think it's fair to say that talent evaluation has been the Giants biggest issue the past 8 years, they're just not good at getting good players in the door.
The question remains - what changed, sometime around 2012, that caused the whole operation to basically go off the rails? They have changed a lot since then, but for the most part the scouting department remains intact. I think it's fair to say that talent evaluation has been the Giants biggest issue the past 8 years, they're just not good at getting good players in the door.
In fairness, the quality of the fan base has degraded even more. Every swinging dick is now a starting Monday morning QB.
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at talent evaluation back then, both pro and college.
The question remains - what changed, sometime around 2012, that caused the whole operation to basically go off the rails? They have changed a lot since then, but for the most part the scouting department remains intact. I think it's fair to say that talent evaluation has been the Giants biggest issue the past 8 years, they're just not good at getting good players in the door.
In fairness, the quality of the fan base has degraded even more. Every swinging dick is now a starting Monday morning QB.
Fairly certain that has not caused the degradation of the NYG franchise.
In fairness, the quality of the fan base has degraded even more. Every swinging dick is now a starting Monday morning QB.
The fanbase is just fine. The Giants comparatively speaking have been pretty damn bad. Over the past three years they've been making the Browns and Jets look competent in comparison.
You didn't have to be a MMQB or Nostradamus to know that the Giants were making some stupid fucking mistakes, like giving up draft picks to acquire a guy destined for FA in the midst of a losing season.
Then the cherry on the sundae, going with Halapio and Pulley at C.
I'm hoping that Judge and his staff are better at evaluating talent, because the Giants have been lacking for a very long time.
A "decent Center"?? He would have been getting paid like a mid-tier starter and he hasn't done that in SF. To call him "decent" while shitting on other players who were just as poor is really stretching things.
Then the cherry on the sundae, going with Halapio and Pulley at C.
I'm hoping that Judge and his staff are better at evaluating talent, because the Giants have been lacking for a very long time.
are we talking about Weston Richburg? He still hasn't played a full season - Richburg is really not the answer and hardly qualifies as being let go to save a million or two. He was widely panned for his inability to stay healthy and his inconsistency during the season when he was on the field.
Should anyone have been surprised at what happened at the center position?
Further - for a team that believes defense begins in the middle, spending high draft picks and large sums of money to shore it up - why on Earth would you believe that a strategy involving two dollar store players at C is a good idea?
Obviously not.
jcn56 : 2/26/2020 11:28 pm : link : reply
Jones may not have been any great shakes - but they let Richburg walk (justifiable, given his new contract), traded Jones, and decided to go with the platoon of two journeymen.
Should anyone have been surprised at what happened at the center position?
It was basically a swap out of interchangeable parts. Jones has exactly 2 starts in the last two years with Minny and spent almost all of the past season out. If the answer isn't Halapio, the flipside of that isn't that Jones was.
Since the Giants won the SB in 2012 when David Baas (the last legit center they had) the following players have played and/or have been rostered by the Giants at Center:
2013 - Baas (3 games and then his career was done), Kevin Boothe, Dallas Reynolds, Jim Cordle
2014 - Dallas Reynolds, JD Walton
2015 - Richburg, Reynolds, Jones
2016 - Jones, Richburg
2017 - Jones, Richburg
2018 - Pulley, Halapio
2019 - Halapio, Pulley
What a pile of crap.