I was worried the Giants would repeat the mistakes of 2016 - spend absurd money in a desperation to win again. It worked for a year, but it was a sugar high.
Peter King said that Gettleman has a win or else mandate this year, but I’m not so sure that’s true given the philosophy thus far. The signings have filled needs, but aren’t breaking the bank. With a good draft next month, the tide can begin to turn. Strong drafts & supplement through FA, that is the way to build for sustainable success.
It really feels like everyone is buying into Joe Judge’s philosophy. I’m encouraged.
Would like to see them leverage that #4 pick somehow.
Hope they trade down and accumulate some good talent.
i wanted littleton over martinez but ill let graham make that call. otherwise, im good with how they are approaching this.
i definitely think we need OT in round 1. hope we can slide back some and pick up extra early picks.
maybe chargers at 6?
jags at 9?
major issues still unresolved - pass rusher and tackle. may just wind up getting both in the draft. But, I'm thinking they get some help w/pass rush in FA. Thinking they take Wills at # 4.
i wanted littleton over martinez but ill let graham make that call. otherwise, im good with how they are approaching this.
i definitely think we need OT in round 1. hope we can slide back some and pick up extra early picks.
maybe chargers at 6?
jags at 9?
I definitely agree on Littleton as better fit speed wise but they allowed Graham to have input. It's a challenge to make up for a lack of speed. There's not a franchise tackle in the draft, like a Boselli, Pace, Ogden etc. There's some value that they wait until 2nd/3rd round and don't need to reach. Simmons or Young would be the a player to build our defense around.
Those are where the bargains are. Every year players are released who are experienced and productive. You just have to be patient. That's what we should have done.
If we were going to be in this early market, the better investments would have been OL. Bulaga over Martinez would have been a much, much better play.
Those are where the bargains are. Every year players are released who are experienced and productive. You just have to be patient. That's what we should have done.
If we were going to be in this early market, the better investments would have been OL. Bulaga over Martinez would have been a much, much better play.
I’m not a big fan of the Martinez signing, but I would have been incensed if Dave handed out a large contract to Bulaga.
Positional coaches players, defensive Coordinator captain.
My favorite is the corner, who line up against the best WR....in a division with the best WRs...Julio, Michael Thomas and Evan.
Quote:
is the wave after the first wave. When teams have to release players because of money...
Those are where the bargains are. Every year players are released who are experienced and productive. You just have to be patient. That's what we should have done.
If we were going to be in this early market, the better investments would have been OL. Bulaga over Martinez would have been a much, much better play.
I’m not a big fan of the Martinez signing, but I would have been incensed if Dave handed out a large contract to Bulaga.
Do you think 3yrs/$30M is a lot? I think it's a bargain.
Bulaga - ( New Window )
Bradberry was in the top few CB's on every list but he's also a year younger than Byron Jones and several younger than Harris. Barring an extension this contract only covers him through age 29.
Martinez only just turned 26.
Leonard Williams turns 26 in a few months.
The guys who were older only got 1 year deals (Fackrell 28, Flemming 27). Toilolo is 28 and got 2 years.
In fact, browsing our roster there are only 4 remaining players over 27 - Solder 31, Zeitler 30, Tanney 32, Tate 31. This has got to be 1 of the youngest rosters in the NFL at this point?
This team could use that level of skill...
Quote:
Bulaga finished 12th among all NFL tackles in ESPN's Pass Block Win Rate last season (91.7%).
This team could use that level of skill...
Of course they could. My issue is he is about to turn 31. Maybe his play drops off this year? What would he be as a player if/when this team is actually good? I’d rather Dave find the next Bulaga in the draft.
I’m lukewarm on Martinez but I really liked the Fackrell, Bradberry, Toilolo, and Fleming(if it’s to be the swing tackle) signings. Now hopefully they can add a veteran upgrade at center along with Matt Moore as Jones’ backup.
uh
bradberry or beal?
thats NOT EVEN CLOSE.
Also martinez is better than ogletree come on...ogletree wont have a job this year lol. the dude is toast
That's what the draft is for. The team isn't close enough for contention to spend all of the money on 3 players that choke the budget like 2016. They still need to replace the players they lost and do incremental upgrades while they restock with the draft. The players that were really worth the money already got paid, overpaid or tagged. Better coaching will help too.
Quote:
Forgot to headline from the link:
Quote:
Bulaga finished 12th among all NFL tackles in ESPN's Pass Block Win Rate last season (91.7%).
This team could use that level of skill...
Of course they could. My issue is he is about to turn 31. Maybe his play drops off this year? What would he be as a player if/when this team is actually good? I’d rather Dave find the next Bulaga in the draft.
Or maybe he's Andrew Whitworth and just keeps humming along, getting it done.
I would have signed-up for this exacta any day, all day - sign Bulaga, draft Wills.
Look, with today's rules, it's easier to get the offense piece solved first. So let's get the OL finally solved, build that support system for DJ, and be a team that can consistently score points. And then move onto building a D that compliments the O and fits today's game - speed, pressure, and excellent tackling...
After free agency all of my hopes are invested in Joe Judge.
After free agency all of my hopes are invested in Joe Judge.
I’ve been typing “we can’t fix every hole this offseason” now for for 3 straight off seasons here on BBI. We went from 5 wins to 4 the first 2 times. If Dave can’t get this thing to 7 wins this year, how does he tell John he deserves another year?
However, the way the roster looks now, they are going to get roasted in the air. Their pass rush is a slight downgrade from last year and they still have some massive coverage issues, especially against TEs and in the back end of the defense. Speedy receivers are going to kill this team.
On offense, they haven't done much.
But a sobering note -- Dave Gettleman signed more than 30 UFA agents in 2018 and 2019.
By my count the only players on the roster from that list: Solder, Tate, Mayo, and Tanney.
It's hard to turn a team around when you are only multi year starter a year in UFA.
But a sobering note -- Dave Gettleman signed more than 30 UFA agents in 2018 and 2019.
By my count the only players on the roster from that list: Solder, Tate, Mayo, and Tanney.
It's hard to turn a team around when you are only multi year starter a year in UFA.
30 is a little bit misleading in that context. How many guys signed with any guaranteed $ after year 1? I don't think there were more than a handful?
Not misleading, exactly my point. It's been a rotation of temps or busts.
Quote:
30 is a little bit misleading in that context. How many guys signed with any guaranteed $ after year 1? I don't think there were more than a handful?
Not misleading, exactly my point. It's been a rotation of temps or busts.
Ok that's a fair point but I think most view FA best used in that sort of disposable way. Or at least that's how better organizations seem to utilize it (Pats, Baltimore, Philly, etc).
We need to find players to defend the middle of the field. Year in and year out we're gutted there. Martinez isn't the answer for that problem.
The bottom line for the Giants, though, is that they simply have to draft better than they have for the past ten years or so. Free agency needs to be the icing on the cake, not the cake itself. If they draft well, they'll win more.
FA might have allowed us to get younger and a tick faster in some spots, that and the ability to get out of contracts is encouraging.
There was a comments made earlier that seems to have gone un-noticed. Do the teams really play this year? If we have 1 year contracts how will this be address. If we do not have a season that contract year, might or might not apply. time will tell.
Bring on the draft!
Martinez replaces Ogeltree
Fackrell replaces Golden
Toilolo replaces Ellison
Not a major upgrade in any of these signings, but we did get younger veterans and preserved future cap position. Any significant improvement in. team play will have to come from the draft and from improvements in our younger players - unless there are more moves to be made.
Martinez replaces Ogeltree
Fackrell replaces Golden
Toilolo replaces Ellison
Not a major upgrade in any of these signings, but we did get younger veterans and preserved future cap position. Any significant improvement in. team play will have to come from the draft and from improvements in our younger players - unless there are more moves to be made.
And that’s how good teams are built...through the draft.
From that description, who best fits the profile for a 1st round pick?
FAST: OLB Simmons or OT Wirfs
TOUGH: OT Beckton
SMART/FUNDAMENTALLY SOUND: CB Okudah
AND FOR THE FREE AGENTS WE SIGNED:
FAST: LB Fackrell
TOUGH: TE Toillo LB Mayo WR/ST Core FB Penny
SMART/FUNDAMENTALLY SOUND: CB Bradberry MLB Martinez
As you can see, the free agents we have signed do fall into the plan outlined by Judge in his introductory interview. I think we will see that plan continue to unfold in the draft and in the rest of any free agents we pick up.
Joe Judge introductory interview - ( New Window )
Probably not win-or-else this year - ( New Window )
We still have the draft and then another wave of veterans who will get cut and will be available soon after.
The thing with Carter is that in college he was a guy that was off the charts athletically, but didn't have great statistics. Looks like the same thing with the Giants.
Could a new coaching staff do something different to make him a good player? We're about to find out.
Except that Littleton didn’t want to come here he’s played his entire life on the west coast , had a feeling he was going to sign with Raiders
I loved the 2016 season, but that offseason really put the team in a hole.
I'm thinking Martinez is very similar.
He's young. Let's keep in mind even BB disciples like McDaniel's with honestly more tangible success under his belt flamed out. Not to mention BB himself flamed out his first stint as a head coach.
Saying it feels like everyone is buying into JJ philosophy after 5 free agent signings is honestly a ridiculous statement. It would be a ridiculous statement after the first preseason game. No one deserves any credit for not signing old players that are done or close to being done. Sorry. What is the basis for this statement?
Also as someone else said we haven't improved that much as of now roster wise. Our biggest hopes are DJ takes a big step forward, JJ gets a lot more out of the roster and our #4 pick contributes in a huge way. But right now our team doesn't look much better, younger yes, less risk of dead money, yes. But let's even say JJ came in and HAD to tell DG some basic things like hey maybe sign younger players and limit the length of the deals to cut bait on your mistakes easier. If someone needs to be told that how useful are they?
I'm thinking Martinez is very similar.
This is a bad post, even for you, who just makes a habit of making the most homery unsubstantiated statements as possible.
1. Boley was a guy we brought in because his core competency was covering speedier TEs and RBs, that's the biggest weakness of Martinez
2. Martinez has great production, the quality of his production is what's in question as his average tackle is 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. That's literally the opposite of having intangible value.
2. Martinez has great production, the quality of his production is what's in question as his average tackle is 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. That's literally the opposite of having intangible value.
Without weighing in on the broader argument, worth noting since it's thrown out a lot that this stat is a little misleading without context. Pettine's defensive philosophy is very much bend, don't break. He often uses extra db's (a 3-3-5 defense with sometimes 6 dbs) and he keeps the box incredibly light. His whole strategy is built around the idea of preventing big passing plays and oftentimes Martinez was the only ILB on the field.
Also his stats are his stats we can't act like it's a forgone conclusion that they will change and comparing him to Boley is still way off base.
Unfortunately we're still exposed in the middle of the field.
I know everybody's all about the pass-rush, about finding a dominant ER. For me, it's all about that rangy, deep-cover guy we haven't had in ages. A guy to team up with Peppers and Love, allowing them to play closer to the LOS, where I think their strengths are.
As much as I want to draft OL's, if we can get a really good FS on day two, I'd be fine with it.
ER (need 2 more really)
FS
OT (maybe 2 depending on if you think Fleming is a viable starter)
C
LB that can cover
Williams and Martinez especially were really luxury pickups with those holes.
I feel like we've been saying this for 10 years, it's only one offseason anymore.
We have spent our money and I think wisely. We still have enough for a few more small signings or one splash signing. I think we have been active and not desperate, we have filled needs and not spent foolishly. I am very happy with what we have done in free agency and how we have gone about our business. Right now before what should be a fruitful draft (let us all pray) we can field a better team then last year.
BTW Cam Fleming is already our best tackle.
And btw sometimes young fresh minds work out. As a Net fan, many of us found Sean Marks to be a refreshing breathe of fresh air with a clear plan from day 1 - even as his first opening night lineup included geriatric players like Randy Foye and Luis Scola. There was a clear vision and purpose from day 1 that was consistent in the moves he made. When they sucked in year 1 most continued to believe despite poor results because he had been dealt an extremely difficult hand and you could see some positives. In year 2 they made the playoffs and obviously offseason 3 turned out to be potentially gamechanging. Great leaders/managers lay out a vision and work towards it patiently, one move at time, with results that are not always visible above the surface. Wins on the field are a trailing indicator of success in a lot of ways.
That being said a few points
1. The Giants management deserves zero good faith on this. The last two head coaches they've picked have been nothing short of disasters. I'm sure they thought those two were good leaders too. The idea that you haven't and can suddenly be trusted to identify a good leader isn't really sound reasoning. Not saying they can't go 1/3 though.
2. Saying "it really feels like everyone is buying into Joe Judge’s philosophy" is a perfect example of people overblowing the positive impact of an individual already. Again, 5 free agent signings determining that "everyone" is "buying into a philosophy" is a poor analytical framework. Not to mention, again, it can't be stressed enough that the implication is that the coach is impacting the GM here and if you need to be told to that it is a better idea to sign younger players to shorter contracts in FA as a general rule you really shouldn't be an NFL GM.
At some point though you do need to add quality veteran contributors to your core. You aren't going to draft yourself into a play off roster alone. If you're really good at it, you get 3 starters out of a draft.
I keep harping on it, but in 2 years of free agency, Gettleman added 2 projected starters that are still here: Tate and Solder.
You have to talent up through the draft, UFA, and trades.
Quote:
incremental improvements to improve the roster now and buy time to keep the draft pipeline flowing. No way to fill every hole in one offseason.
I feel like we've been saying this for 10 years, it's only one offseason anymore.
This is where you land and live when your drafting stinks, there's no foundation to build on, be it players, coaches, or systems.
He's young. Let's keep in mind even BB disciples like McDaniel's with honestly more tangible success under his belt flamed out. Not to mention BB himself flamed out his first stint as a head coach.
Saying it feels like everyone is buying into JJ philosophy after 5 free agent signings is honestly a ridiculous statement. It would be a ridiculous statement after the first preseason game. No one deserves any credit for not signing old players that are done or close to being done. Sorry. What is the basis for this statement?
Also as someone else said we haven't improved that much as of now roster wise. Our biggest hopes are DJ takes a big step forward, JJ gets a lot more out of the roster and our #4 pick contributes in a huge way. But right now our team doesn't look much better, younger yes, less risk of dead money, yes. But let's even say JJ came in and HAD to tell DG some basic things like hey maybe sign younger players and limit the length of the deals to cut bait on your mistakes easier. If someone needs to be told that how useful are they?
Good post. Let's face it - the odds of Judge being a good NFL coach that lasts are very small based on his CV. He's got absolutely zero experience being a HC at any level; and now he's taking over a flagship franchise that is in a deep malaise with a wobbly GM and lost ownership.
We tried a coach with no HC experience, McAdoo, and then a coach whose only HC stop was in Cleveland. Now we're testing some of those same waters again with Judge...
Maybe we're due... ;)
We really need OL help and had a chance to grab a top OL in Bugala, who signed for a competitive contract. I would be very interested in knowing if we even had any contract with him. If not, that would be tremendously disappointing.
That being said a few points
1. The Giants management deserves zero good faith on this. The last two head coaches they've picked have been nothing short of disasters. I'm sure they thought those two were good leaders too. The idea that you haven't and can suddenly be trusted to identify a good leader isn't really sound reasoning. Not saying they can't go 1/3 though.
2. Saying "it really feels like everyone is buying into Joe Judge’s philosophy" is a perfect example of people overblowing the positive impact of an individual already. Again, 5 free agent signings determining that "everyone" is "buying into a philosophy" is a poor analytical framework. Not to mention, again, it can't be stressed enough that the implication is that the coach is impacting the GM here and if you need to be told to that it is a better idea to sign younger players to shorter contracts in FA as a general rule you really shouldn't be an NFL GM.
I wasn't specifically calling you (or anyone) out - but a couple of thoughts.
1- You are correct but this isn't proof 1 way or the other. 2 terrible hires prior to Judge doesn't mean he can't be a good hire. It's not directly predictive. I didn't like the Mcadoo hire and keeping Jerry Reese over Coughlin, I understood the Shurmur hire which was obviously even worse. Point being that all 3 decisions were different circumstances and different conclusions. The Judge hiring was very different than the other 2 and I think he should be viewed with a blank slate.
2- I meant everyone bought into the vision Judge described a couple months ago. Teachers, asking players to do what fits them, holding his assistants to account, surrounding himself with the best people, etc.
It is way to soon to evaluate whether they have signed the right players in FA same as it's too soon to evaluate whether he built the right coaching staff. Garrett and Graham could be homeruns or as bad as the guys they replaced. We don't know yet. On the other hand IMO it's not too soon to like that there seem to be consistencies in how they are making decisions that align with his vision. They are signing young players they have familiarity with, who fit what they want, and structuring those deals for future flexibility. We can like the playcall (or not like it) before knowing whether or not the play works out. It doesn't have to be a savior complex or doom and gloom.
At some point though you do need to add quality veteran contributors to your core. You aren't going to draft yourself into a play off roster alone. If you're really good at it, you get 3 starters out of a draft.
I keep harping on it, but in 2 years of free agency, Gettleman added 2 projected starters that are still here: Tate and Solder.
You have to talent up through the draft, UFA, and trades.
If you count veteran trades there are 3 others (Zeitler, Peppers, LW). So that's brings the total to 5 returning starters who were veteran acquisitions plus 2 more presumptive multi-year starters signed this offseason.
FA year 1 was a disaster headlined by the Ogletree mistake and the less than stellar results from Solder, but year 2 he added 3 multi-year veteran starters despite cap constraints (Zeitler, Peppers, Tate) and this year he looks to be about on the same pace (with LW, Martinez, Bradberry).
thanks bill, when can we expect your reply in the markets thread? ;)
I generally don't follow the stock market. Invest only in companies where I have deep line of sight or control. To me, execution is the secret sauce.
But I will go look at it
I generally don't follow the stock market. Invest only in companies where I have deep line of sight or control. To me, execution is the secret sauce.
But I will go look at it
there was no specific question I noticed but kicker made an appearance so parts of that thread are very nostalgic to 2008/2009.
This is just complete conjecture and unsubstantiated. Asking players to do what fits them before they have even set foot on a practice field? Come one.
Holding assistants to account? Sorry, what? If you are referring to letting go of assistants that's standard practice when joining a team.
Surrounding himself with the best people? As opposed to what? Us being able to look at the hires and say, wow, these are shitty hires? Bettcher was the hire people were most excited about lat time around.
Savior seems like an apt word to use when the man is getting credit for a bunch of stuff there is scant tangible proof of.
Judge's plan/vision/whatever you call it, from his press conference, is what I am talking about people "buying into". A specific example - in the staffing process he said he was going to go out of his way to hire great coaches, not just people he's coached with and had relationships with. That's atypical, and as a direct example of the opposite Matt Rhule brought his DC from Baylor to the Panthers, who has never been a DC in the NFL. Judge has also focused on people who have experience around Saban/Belichek, I think we can all appreciate and agree with that strategy to some degree.
Now Phil Snow (Matt Rhule's DC) could end up winning coordinator of the year, being better than anyone every hired by Belichek or Saban, and this opinion could be completely wrong. The results are yet to come, same as the results of whether or not the FA signings will work out. But it's still perfectly valid to believe in the core values guiding his decisions before there are results to validate it. I don't think every hire Judge made was ideal and there are some I have concerns about, same as some of the FA's signed, but I believe in his vision and think we may as well give him some benefit of doubt.
Judge's plan/vision/whatever you call it, from his press conference, is what I am talking about people "buying into". A specific example - in the staffing process he said he was going to go out of his way to hire great coaches, not just people he's coached with and had relationships with. That's atypical, and as a direct example of the opposite Matt Rhule brought his DC from Baylor to the Panthers, who has never been a DC in the NFL. Judge has also focused on people who have experience around Saban/Belichek, I think we can all appreciate and agree with that strategy to some degree.
Now Phil Snow (Matt Rhule's DC) could end up winning coordinator of the year, being better than anyone every hired by Belichek or Saban, and this opinion could be completely wrong. The results are yet to come, same as the results of whether or not the FA signings will work out. But it's still perfectly valid to believe in the core values guiding his decisions before there are results to validate it. I don't think every hire Judge made was ideal and there are some I have concerns about, same as some of the FA's signed, but I believe in his vision and think we may as well give him some benefit of doubt.
See this is just factually incorrect again. It's atypical to hire coaches the way he has?
He worked with both Graham and Bret Bielema in NE. Graham also has Giants ties. Those are just who I know off the top of my head.
You want to sit here and tell me Garrett's hire had nothing to do with his ties to the Giants family?
This is what i'm talking about exactly even the points you are saying we can infer now there isn't any evidence other than speaking in platitudes on. What do you think he's going to say. "Look here guys, I am going to make hires based on who I've worked with and not at all based on their coaching abilities"
If the only change you are talking about between Rhule and Judge is that Rhule had people work for him directly then hire them as opposed to just working with them. Again, that's a non point. You want to give him a pat on the back for not what, elevating special teams assistants?
I hope Graham works out but if you are talking about getting results out of your players, the Dolphins D couldn't have been any more garbage this year and one year after hiring him the Dolphins let Graham walk by choice.
You are bending over backwards to try to make a point. Just say you are being optimistic and be done with it. You are reaching and bending over backwards to create evidence for something there isn't any for.
We have a great season this year, by all means, i'm happy to be the first to say Judge hired the right coaches. But people seem to love to pass optimism off as sound reasoning here and for optimism to not be foolish it requires a lot more basis in fact.
If you want to boil any directional opinion prior to having results down to just being an optimist (if positive) or pessimist (if negative) that's up to you - I think there's a lot more nuance than that in almost any discussion whether the topic is sports or otherwise.
If you want to boil any directional opinion prior to having results down to just being an optimist (if positive) or pessimist (if negative) that's up to you - I think there's a lot more nuance than that in almost any discussion whether the topic is sports or otherwise.
You are backtracking. You are using the word nuance without much credence. You pointed to him saying that he was going to hire the "best person for the job" as opposed to people he's worked with. I provided facts that supported the other side more and now you are trying to inject nuance into it? You chose that line! You chose to act like the way he is going about it is atypical, then I proved that not only did it absolutely seem like the typical way coaches hire their assistants but it's even in line with how the Giants normally do it with bringing in people that had prior associations with the team. (Which honestly makes the point you were trying to make even less valid)
You are very fairly being labeled an optimist because you are professing viewpoints that aren't really derived from the evidence in front of us.
I provided evidence to the contrary, that he was actually hiring in a very typical way as in people closely attached to him and the organization he works for.
You are bringing it back to a different point about good vs. bad and i've already made the point that we don't have enough information.
You were the one that acted like there was reason to believe you had evidence of something that the facts (IE he has hired people that he's worked with and have ties to the organization) do not support the claim of the way he hired his coaching staff to be atypical. The very thing you seem to be excited about has a tenuous grasp on factual evidence at best.
Sad face.
You continue to go downhill mentally and emotionally
Fact. Not speculation, Not a personal attack. A request to take care of your self and be happier
Then mind open look at when and how you jumped in and how much energy you spent trying to put down a guy you don't know
Not you at your best. Take care of yourself
Honestly, the emotional thing seems like something easy to toss at people who look a lot more right than wrong. I'll rarely enter a discussion without a well thought out basis for my arguments. I get that others disagree but it's my opinion that we are continuing to act as if we should believe in our leadership when it would be far more beneficial to be skeptical and quick to ask for more wholesale changes if we continue to perform in this manner.
You've always had thoughtful, intelligent posts and I have respect for you as a poster. But in the last year or so they seem overly slanted towards defending the Giants, I've talked to other posters off the board who share these sentiments. That's not to say that your opinions aren't providing value but that is to say traditionally i'd look at your view as less slanted but less so now.
I genuinely appreciate the sentiments but again, seeing the above posts, it feels like it is framing my points as less legitimate.
Don't get me wrong, there are things about the JJ hire that have me more optimistic than I've been in a bit. But personally i'd much rather see a situation where the organization takes overhauling its practices top to bottom legitimately than see them slip further into the punch line they are staring squarely in the mirror at. I don't think fans being in the practice of deluding themselves helps that at all.
The future is unknown. I prefer to be neutral about things I cant control and when the only facts will emerge in the future
That's my core objection to the tenor of the board. We don't know. I see more and more speculation stated as certainty filling in the vacumm of our impatience.
Its an auto response to unfounded negativity. ( we can always find reasons to be negative...its too easy). The unfounded optimism I unfortunately dismiss as hopa hopa and it doesn't annoy me as much.
We have a lot of posters who make up their arguments and have given up their best ---which is when they acknowledge uncertainty and strive for balance.
When we don't know attacking those who base their optimism in a different emotional take is pot calling kettle black
We all have the right to take scraps and call them possibly good or possibly bad. We are rooted in out outlooks. What amazes me is two camps rooted in emotion in the face of the unknown future find solid ground to ridicule a different take on the unknown
We are all passing time until this unfolds over several years. Near as I know the world as always been about 50% tending to optimists and 50% tending to pessimists.
The common ground of both is we don't know yet and there is a ton we don't know and finally, we are all sick and tired of losing. We forget those three things tom easily. Imo.
I left junior high and built a life. Its much more fun.
But this isn't a gigantic shift.
Many players with ties to the coaching staff's past lives, many short term contracts, a few prove it deals.
Gettleman sacrificed dead money last year, and turned that into flexibility to invest more this year.
As posted above the 3 big contracts absolutely have to be cornerstone starters. The Giants desperately need to supplement their drafts with vets who stick around.
1) Win now
2) Scrap and re start
3) Build solidly and methodically
With regards to FA, I don’t sense desperation in an attempt to win next year.
Of course there are still many unknowns, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be encouraged.
1) Win now
2) Scrap and re start
3) Build solidly and methodically
I see many more similarities in terms of how they've seemed to go about these last 2 offseasons vs. the first. Adding Zeitler/Tate in March19 seemed to be methodical additions anticipating a young QB (and wanting to surround him with competent professionals). And while there were fewer players to scrap this offseason, there was an entire coaching staff.
Either way the organization is now oriented to stake the accumulation of a half decade on Jones/Judge with a clean cap and some other high picks around them. However he played his hands each of the last few years to get here, that's what DG has gone all in with.
Yes i'd agree. But where the Pats are leading the way, capitalizing on the engineering talent in Boston, we haven't done anywhere close to the same. I think that's what makes it the most negligent on the part of the Giants. Other cities don't have many people necessarily capable of building the kinds of complex systems you need to use predictive analytics in football but NY has many and has had many.
I'm thinking Martinez is very similar.
Boley was known for coverage. Martinez not as much
Quote:
I thought the Boley signing was sneeky good at the time, not a highlight reel guy, but does all the intangible things to do his job and show up on the stat sheet. Didn't quite live up to my highest hopes, but was a + guy for us for several years.
I'm thinking Martinez is very similar.
Boley was known for coverage. Martinez not as much
Maybe I read it wrong, but I didn't get the sense that CRB was making the comparison on a skill-set level.
ER (need 2 more really)
FS
OT (maybe 2 depending on if you think Fleming is a viable starter)
C
LB that can cover
Williams and Martinez especially were really luxury pickups with those holes.
Most of the things on your list weren't available.
There were a couple good options at center. Id have preferred a FA signing there to a draft pick.
Conklin would have cost a fortune at RT for marginal pass blocking. Severe overpay.
There were a couple options at LB, but again, you guys would have torn DG apart for the contracts.
We all know the story on EDGE. Do you overpay for Clowney?
They played the hand they were dealt without overspending in FA, and I think they did an ok job.
Quote:
In comment 14842417 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
I thought the Boley signing was sneeky good at the time, not a highlight reel guy, but does all the intangible things to do his job and show up on the stat sheet. Didn't quite live up to my highest hopes, but was a + guy for us for several years.
I'm thinking Martinez is very similar.
Boley was known for coverage. Martinez not as much
Maybe I read it wrong, but I didn't get the sense that CRB was making the comparison on a skill-set level.
Yeah, he was saying it was a similarly underrated signing not that he and Boley had the same skill set. It was a straw man.
1) Win now
2) Scrap and re start
3) Build solidly and methodically
Could be but that’s something we will never truly know. I guess I look at it somewhere in the middle that even if DG did try to win on the fly in 18, on his own terms, he didn’t exactly throw caution to the wind and burn everu future resource this franchise had coning. Anything but really. And in the end, DG did go scorched earth, something just about everyone here implored this franchise to do for years now. DG did exactly that, one lousy year ago, and those same fans that screamed for the scorched earth policy now rail against DG.
I just can’t get behind that line of thinking. That’s not being a DG fan boy as some here love to put it. We are two years into the rebuild folks. It these young pups DG brought in, and there’s a shit load of them, don’t turn into dogs I will pay for the gas tolls that we need to run DG outta here. But you have to give this some time.