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I’m very encouraged with how FA has gone

Sean : 3/18/2020 9:30 pm
I was worried the Giants would repeat the mistakes of 2016 - spend absurd money in a desperation to win again. It worked for a year, but it was a sugar high.

Peter King said that Gettleman has a win or else mandate this year, but I’m not so sure that’s true given the philosophy thus far. The signings have filled needs, but aren’t breaking the bank. With a good draft next month, the tide can begin to turn. Strong drafts & supplement through FA, that is the way to build for sustainable success.

It really feels like everyone is buying into Joe Judge’s philosophy. I’m encouraged.
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RE: Carter has some speed  
Gman11 : 3/19/2020 8:30 am : link
In comment 14841899 bc4life said:
Quote:
his skills need to catch up to his speed


The thing with Carter is that in college he was a guy that was off the charts athletically, but didn't have great statistics. Looks like the same thing with the Giants.

Could a new coaching staff do something different to make him a good player? We're about to find out.
RE: Could have been better; could have been worse.  
NikkiMac : 3/19/2020 9:16 am : link
In comment 14842024 Ira said:
Quote:
I would have rather we spent more to sign Littleton instead of Martinez. I wanted an upgrade somewhere on the ol.


Except that Littleton didn’t want to come here he’s played his entire life on the west coast , had a feeling he was going to sign with Raiders
Im encouraged that DG didn't sign an average player to huge $$$  
sb from NYT Forum : 3/19/2020 10:19 am : link
...that will hamstring the team for years if it doesn't work out.
I'm not high-fiving anybody based on how it's gone so far,  
an_idol_mind : 3/19/2020 10:53 am : link
but I do find it encouraging that Gettleman hasn't gone full 2016 Reese in a bid to keep his job.

I loved the 2016 season, but that offseason really put the team in a hole.
Martinez ~ Boley  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 3/19/2020 11:20 am : link
I thought the Boley signing was sneeky good at the time, not a highlight reel guy, but does all the intangible things to do his job and show up on the stat sheet. Didn't quite live up to my highest hopes, but was a + guy for us for several years.

I'm thinking Martinez is very similar.
"It really feels like everyone is buying into Joe Judge’s philosophy."  
NoGainDayne : 3/19/2020 1:01 pm : link
There is a bit of a JJ savior complex here. Let's try to be realistic about this. He's proven nothing. He's had some good press conferences. That should be table stakes, just because you are coming off picking a terrible coach doesn't mean you should be overly excited about a new one doing what should be considered basic leadership things.

He's young. Let's keep in mind even BB disciples like McDaniel's with honestly more tangible success under his belt flamed out. Not to mention BB himself flamed out his first stint as a head coach.

Saying it feels like everyone is buying into JJ philosophy after 5 free agent signings is honestly a ridiculous statement. It would be a ridiculous statement after the first preseason game. No one deserves any credit for not signing old players that are done or close to being done. Sorry. What is the basis for this statement?

Also as someone else said we haven't improved that much as of now roster wise. Our biggest hopes are DJ takes a big step forward, JJ gets a lot more out of the roster and our #4 pick contributes in a huge way. But right now our team doesn't look much better, younger yes, less risk of dead money, yes. But let's even say JJ came in and HAD to tell DG some basic things like hey maybe sign younger players and limit the length of the deals to cut bait on your mistakes easier. If someone needs to be told that how useful are they?
RE: Martinez ~ Boley  
NoGainDayne : 3/19/2020 1:04 pm : link
In comment 14842417 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
I thought the Boley signing was sneeky good at the time, not a highlight reel guy, but does all the intangible things to do his job and show up on the stat sheet. Didn't quite live up to my highest hopes, but was a + guy for us for several years.

I'm thinking Martinez is very similar.


This is a bad post, even for you, who just makes a habit of making the most homery unsubstantiated statements as possible.

1. Boley was a guy we brought in because his core competency was covering speedier TEs and RBs, that's the biggest weakness of Martinez

2. Martinez has great production, the quality of his production is what's in question as his average tackle is 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. That's literally the opposite of having intangible value.
RE: RE: Martinez ~ Boley  
Strahan91 : 3/19/2020 1:22 pm : link
In comment 14842564 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:

2. Martinez has great production, the quality of his production is what's in question as his average tackle is 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. That's literally the opposite of having intangible value.

Without weighing in on the broader argument, worth noting since it's thrown out a lot that this stat is a little misleading without context. Pettine's defensive philosophy is very much bend, don't break. He often uses extra db's (a 3-3-5 defense with sometimes 6 dbs) and he keeps the box incredibly light. His whole strategy is built around the idea of preventing big passing plays and oftentimes Martinez was the only ILB on the field.
It's fine to project him differently in a different defense  
NoGainDayne : 3/19/2020 1:40 pm : link
but the idea that he's displayed intangible value is really just not an accurate statement.

Also his stats are his stats we can't act like it's a forgone conclusion that they will change and comparing him to Boley is still way off base.
On the Former Giants Linebacker Scale...  
Klaatu : 3/19/2020 2:01 pm : link
Blake Martinez is a lot closer to Chase Blackburn than he is to Michael Boley.
klatuu  
Torrag : 3/19/2020 2:35 pm : link
He really does remind me of Pierce. Good run player and with the ball in front of him. Good stacking and shedding in the box. Shorter arms and length. Weak moving backwards. Can play zone fits but man to man with RB's and TE's he's at a disadvantage. Great effort and smart.

Unfortunately we're still exposed in the middle of the field.
Torrag  
Klaatu : 3/19/2020 2:44 pm : link
I think our "middle of the field" problems could be solved (or at least mitigated somewhat) with a top-tier FS, which is why I was willing to back up a truck for one in free agency. Unfortunately, the best ones were tagged.

I know everybody's all about the pass-rush, about finding a dominant ER. For me, it's all about that rangy, deep-cover guy we haven't had in ages. A guy to team up with Peppers and Love, allowing them to play closer to the LOS, where I think their strengths are.

As much as I want to draft OL's, if we can get a really good FS on day two, I'd be fine with it.
I'd have paid top dolar for Simmons if he wasn't tagged...  
Torrag : 3/19/2020 2:49 pm : link
and a little less for Harris. I still believe you need a LB that can shadow and run with backs and TE's from the LoS. We don't have one remotely capable of doing the job.
Yup...get me an Ed Reed, please.  
yatqb : 3/19/2020 2:53 pm : link
.
I think that's the problem with FA so far  
NoGainDayne : 3/19/2020 2:54 pm : link
we still have glaring holes at:

ER (need 2 more really)
FS
OT (maybe 2 depending on if you think Fleming is a viable starter)
C
LB that can cover

Williams and Martinez especially were really luxury pickups with those holes.

RE: Meat and potatoes  
BestFeature : 3/19/2020 2:59 pm : link
In comment 14841912 JonC said:
Quote:
incremental improvements to improve the roster now and buy time to keep the draft pipeline flowing. No way to fill every hole in one offseason.


I feel like we've been saying this for 10 years, it's only one offseason anymore.
I agree with the OP  
bluetothegrave : 3/19/2020 3:00 pm : link
I dig it man, We are signing guys that will impact the team in a positive way for not too much bread. Look at how much money all the remaining teams that had big money to spend have have left under the cap. Tons of it. We only have like 14 million left now.

We have spent our money and I think wisely. We still have enough for a few more small signings or one splash signing. I think we have been active and not desperate, we have filled needs and not spent foolishly. I am very happy with what we have done in free agency and how we have gone about our business. Right now before what should be a fruitful draft (let us all pray) we can field a better team then last year.

BTW Cam Fleming is already our best tackle.
The joe judge savior complex  
Eric on Li : 3/19/2020 3:02 pm : link
if you don't believe in the leader, they shouldn't be the leader. Period. Obviously we fans didn't choose him to be the HC, Mara did, but I think there's a consensus belief since learning about him that we believe in Judge as the best guy for the job. That doesn't mean he deserves blind allegiance but he should get the benefit of doubt and support. The leader is there to make hard decisions that are far from obvious and often not popular at the time they are made.

And btw sometimes young fresh minds work out. As a Net fan, many of us found Sean Marks to be a refreshing breathe of fresh air with a clear plan from day 1 - even as his first opening night lineup included geriatric players like Randy Foye and Luis Scola. There was a clear vision and purpose from day 1 that was consistent in the moves he made. When they sucked in year 1 most continued to believe despite poor results because he had been dealt an extremely difficult hand and you could see some positives. In year 2 they made the playoffs and obviously offseason 3 turned out to be potentially gamechanging. Great leaders/managers lay out a vision and work towards it patiently, one move at time, with results that are not always visible above the surface. Wins on the field are a trailing indicator of success in a lot of ways.
Believe me, i'm the last person that will say  
NoGainDayne : 3/19/2020 3:25 pm : link
young fresh minds don't work. Don't need to prove that point to me.

That being said a few points

1. The Giants management deserves zero good faith on this. The last two head coaches they've picked have been nothing short of disasters. I'm sure they thought those two were good leaders too. The idea that you haven't and can suddenly be trusted to identify a good leader isn't really sound reasoning. Not saying they can't go 1/3 though.

2. Saying "it really feels like everyone is buying into Joe Judge’s philosophy" is a perfect example of people overblowing the positive impact of an individual already. Again, 5 free agent signings determining that "everyone" is "buying into a philosophy" is a poor analytical framework. Not to mention, again, it can't be stressed enough that the implication is that the coach is impacting the GM here and if you need to be told to that it is a better idea to sign younger players to shorter contracts in FA as a general rule you really shouldn't be an NFL GM.
...  
christian : 3/19/2020 3:26 pm : link
I'm encouraged Judge doesn't feel like he needs vets to teach and coach. There were too many empty uniforms the last two years, and what did it accomplish? All those vets are gone and the coaches got fired.

At some point though you do need to add quality veteran contributors to your core. You aren't going to draft yourself into a play off roster alone. If you're really good at it, you get 3 starters out of a draft.

I keep harping on it, but in 2 years of free agency, Gettleman added 2 projected starters that are still here: Tate and Solder.

You have to talent up through the draft, UFA, and trades.
RE: RE: Meat and potatoes  
JonC : 3/19/2020 3:32 pm : link
In comment 14842710 BestFeature said:
Quote:
In comment 14841912 JonC said:


Quote:


incremental improvements to improve the roster now and buy time to keep the draft pipeline flowing. No way to fill every hole in one offseason.



I feel like we've been saying this for 10 years, it's only one offseason anymore.


This is where you land and live when your drafting stinks, there's no foundation to build on, be it players, coaches, or systems.
RE:  
bw in dc : 3/19/2020 3:59 pm : link
In comment 14842559 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
There is a bit of a JJ savior complex here. Let's try to be realistic about this. He's proven nothing. He's had some good press conferences. That should be table stakes, just because you are coming off picking a terrible coach doesn't mean you should be overly excited about a new one doing what should be considered basic leadership things.

He's young. Let's keep in mind even BB disciples like McDaniel's with honestly more tangible success under his belt flamed out. Not to mention BB himself flamed out his first stint as a head coach.

Saying it feels like everyone is buying into JJ philosophy after 5 free agent signings is honestly a ridiculous statement. It would be a ridiculous statement after the first preseason game. No one deserves any credit for not signing old players that are done or close to being done. Sorry. What is the basis for this statement?

Also as someone else said we haven't improved that much as of now roster wise. Our biggest hopes are DJ takes a big step forward, JJ gets a lot more out of the roster and our #4 pick contributes in a huge way. But right now our team doesn't look much better, younger yes, less risk of dead money, yes. But let's even say JJ came in and HAD to tell DG some basic things like hey maybe sign younger players and limit the length of the deals to cut bait on your mistakes easier. If someone needs to be told that how useful are they?


Good post. Let's face it - the odds of Judge being a good NFL coach that lasts are very small based on his CV. He's got absolutely zero experience being a HC at any level; and now he's taking over a flagship franchise that is in a deep malaise with a wobbly GM and lost ownership.

We tried a coach with no HC experience, McAdoo, and then a coach whose only HC stop was in Cleveland. Now we're testing some of those same waters again with Judge...

Maybe we're due... ;)

We really need OL help and had a chance to grab a top OL in Bugala, who signed for a competitive contract. I would be very interested in knowing if we even had any contract with him. If not, that would be tremendously disappointing.
RE: Believe me, i'm the last person that will say  
Eric on Li : 3/19/2020 4:10 pm : link
In comment 14842761 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
young fresh minds don't work. Don't need to prove that point to me.

That being said a few points

1. The Giants management deserves zero good faith on this. The last two head coaches they've picked have been nothing short of disasters. I'm sure they thought those two were good leaders too. The idea that you haven't and can suddenly be trusted to identify a good leader isn't really sound reasoning. Not saying they can't go 1/3 though.

2. Saying "it really feels like everyone is buying into Joe Judge’s philosophy" is a perfect example of people overblowing the positive impact of an individual already. Again, 5 free agent signings determining that "everyone" is "buying into a philosophy" is a poor analytical framework. Not to mention, again, it can't be stressed enough that the implication is that the coach is impacting the GM here and if you need to be told to that it is a better idea to sign younger players to shorter contracts in FA as a general rule you really shouldn't be an NFL GM.


I wasn't specifically calling you (or anyone) out - but a couple of thoughts.

1- You are correct but this isn't proof 1 way or the other. 2 terrible hires prior to Judge doesn't mean he can't be a good hire. It's not directly predictive. I didn't like the Mcadoo hire and keeping Jerry Reese over Coughlin, I understood the Shurmur hire which was obviously even worse. Point being that all 3 decisions were different circumstances and different conclusions. The Judge hiring was very different than the other 2 and I think he should be viewed with a blank slate.

2- I meant everyone bought into the vision Judge described a couple months ago. Teachers, asking players to do what fits them, holding his assistants to account, surrounding himself with the best people, etc.

It is way to soon to evaluate whether they have signed the right players in FA same as it's too soon to evaluate whether he built the right coaching staff. Garrett and Graham could be homeruns or as bad as the guys they replaced. We don't know yet. On the other hand IMO it's not too soon to like that there seem to be consistencies in how they are making decisions that align with his vision. They are signing young players they have familiarity with, who fit what they want, and structuring those deals for future flexibility. We can like the playcall (or not like it) before knowing whether or not the play works out. It doesn't have to be a savior complex or doom and gloom.
Good post  
Bill2 : 3/19/2020 4:14 pm : link
Eric
RE: ...  
Eric on Li : 3/19/2020 4:20 pm : link
In comment 14842765 christian said:
Quote:
I'm encouraged Judge doesn't feel like he needs vets to teach and coach. There were too many empty uniforms the last two years, and what did it accomplish? All those vets are gone and the coaches got fired.

At some point though you do need to add quality veteran contributors to your core. You aren't going to draft yourself into a play off roster alone. If you're really good at it, you get 3 starters out of a draft.

I keep harping on it, but in 2 years of free agency, Gettleman added 2 projected starters that are still here: Tate and Solder.

You have to talent up through the draft, UFA, and trades.


If you count veteran trades there are 3 others (Zeitler, Peppers, LW). So that's brings the total to 5 returning starters who were veteran acquisitions plus 2 more presumptive multi-year starters signed this offseason.

FA year 1 was a disaster headlined by the Ogletree mistake and the less than stellar results from Solder, but year 2 he added 3 multi-year veteran starters despite cap constraints (Zeitler, Peppers, Tate) and this year he looks to be about on the same pace (with LW, Martinez, Bradberry).
I'm OK with how this FA period has played out,  
Section331 : 3/19/2020 4:23 pm : link
but it is far from "very encouraging". Bradberry is a HR, IMO, and most of the other signings are solid, if unspectacular. That's fine, build some depth, take a few shots at under the radar guys, but it is a decidedly "meh" group.
RE: Good post  
Eric on Li : 3/19/2020 4:23 pm : link
In comment 14842863 Bill2 said:
Quote:
Eric


thanks bill, when can we expect your reply in the markets thread? ;)
.  
Bill2 : 3/19/2020 4:25 pm : link
didn't know about any question on another thread

I generally don't follow the stock market. Invest only in companies where I have deep line of sight or control. To me, execution is the secret sauce.

But I will go look at it
RE: .  
Eric on Li : 3/19/2020 4:28 pm : link
In comment 14842885 Bill2 said:
Quote:
didn't know about any question on another thread

I generally don't follow the stock market. Invest only in companies where I have deep line of sight or control. To me, execution is the secret sauce.

But I will go look at it


there was no specific question I noticed but kicker made an appearance so parts of that thread are very nostalgic to 2008/2009.
It seemed like me because you grabbed savior  
NoGainDayne : 3/19/2020 4:38 pm : link
but nonetheless, your statement is contradictory, you say it's too early to tell.

Quote:
2- I meant everyone bought into the vision Judge described a couple months ago. Teachers, asking players to do what fits them, holding his assistants to account, surrounding himself with the best people, etc.


This is just complete conjecture and unsubstantiated. Asking players to do what fits them before they have even set foot on a practice field? Come one.

Holding assistants to account? Sorry, what? If you are referring to letting go of assistants that's standard practice when joining a team.

Surrounding himself with the best people? As opposed to what? Us being able to look at the hires and say, wow, these are shitty hires? Bettcher was the hire people were most excited about lat time around.

Savior seems like an apt word to use when the man is getting credit for a bunch of stuff there is scant tangible proof of.
not sure what is so hard to understand  
Eric on Li : 3/19/2020 5:17 pm : link
but it's possible to believe in a person's plan, knowing there are not yet results to validate it.

Judge's plan/vision/whatever you call it, from his press conference, is what I am talking about people "buying into". A specific example - in the staffing process he said he was going to go out of his way to hire great coaches, not just people he's coached with and had relationships with. That's atypical, and as a direct example of the opposite Matt Rhule brought his DC from Baylor to the Panthers, who has never been a DC in the NFL. Judge has also focused on people who have experience around Saban/Belichek, I think we can all appreciate and agree with that strategy to some degree.

Now Phil Snow (Matt Rhule's DC) could end up winning coordinator of the year, being better than anyone every hired by Belichek or Saban, and this opinion could be completely wrong. The results are yet to come, same as the results of whether or not the FA signings will work out. But it's still perfectly valid to believe in the core values guiding his decisions before there are results to validate it. I don't think every hire Judge made was ideal and there are some I have concerns about, same as some of the FA's signed, but I believe in his vision and think we may as well give him some benefit of doubt.
.  
Bill2 : 3/19/2020 5:34 pm : link
No win is possible in this discussion
RE: not sure what is so hard to understand  
NoGainDayne : 3/19/2020 5:36 pm : link
In comment 14842964 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
but it's possible to believe in a person's plan, knowing there are not yet results to validate it.

Judge's plan/vision/whatever you call it, from his press conference, is what I am talking about people "buying into". A specific example - in the staffing process he said he was going to go out of his way to hire great coaches, not just people he's coached with and had relationships with. That's atypical, and as a direct example of the opposite Matt Rhule brought his DC from Baylor to the Panthers, who has never been a DC in the NFL. Judge has also focused on people who have experience around Saban/Belichek, I think we can all appreciate and agree with that strategy to some degree.

Now Phil Snow (Matt Rhule's DC) could end up winning coordinator of the year, being better than anyone every hired by Belichek or Saban, and this opinion could be completely wrong. The results are yet to come, same as the results of whether or not the FA signings will work out. But it's still perfectly valid to believe in the core values guiding his decisions before there are results to validate it. I don't think every hire Judge made was ideal and there are some I have concerns about, same as some of the FA's signed, but I believe in his vision and think we may as well give him some benefit of doubt.


See this is just factually incorrect again. It's atypical to hire coaches the way he has?

He worked with both Graham and Bret Bielema in NE. Graham also has Giants ties. Those are just who I know off the top of my head.

You want to sit here and tell me Garrett's hire had nothing to do with his ties to the Giants family?

This is what i'm talking about exactly even the points you are saying we can infer now there isn't any evidence other than speaking in platitudes on. What do you think he's going to say. "Look here guys, I am going to make hires based on who I've worked with and not at all based on their coaching abilities"

If the only change you are talking about between Rhule and Judge is that Rhule had people work for him directly then hire them as opposed to just working with them. Again, that's a non point. You want to give him a pat on the back for not what, elevating special teams assistants?

I hope Graham works out but if you are talking about getting results out of your players, the Dolphins D couldn't have been any more garbage this year and one year after hiring him the Dolphins let Graham walk by choice.

You are bending over backwards to try to make a point. Just say you are being optimistic and be done with it. You are reaching and bending over backwards to create evidence for something there isn't any for.

We have a great season this year, by all means, i'm happy to be the first to say Judge hired the right coaches. But people seem to love to pass optimism off as sound reasoning here and for optimism to not be foolish it requires a lot more basis in fact.

this argument does seem rather cyclical but 1 last shot  
Eric on Li : 3/19/2020 5:48 pm : link
I am not saying he hired the right coaches or signed the right FA. We don't know that because games haven't been played yet.

If you want to boil any directional opinion prior to having results down to just being an optimist (if positive) or pessimist (if negative) that's up to you - I think there's a lot more nuance than that in almost any discussion whether the topic is sports or otherwise.
RE: this argument does seem rather cyclical but 1 last shot  
NoGainDayne : 3/19/2020 6:00 pm : link
In comment 14843007 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
I am not saying he hired the right coaches or signed the right FA. We don't know that because games haven't been played yet.

If you want to boil any directional opinion prior to having results down to just being an optimist (if positive) or pessimist (if negative) that's up to you - I think there's a lot more nuance than that in almost any discussion whether the topic is sports or otherwise.


You are backtracking. You are using the word nuance without much credence. You pointed to him saying that he was going to hire the "best person for the job" as opposed to people he's worked with. I provided facts that supported the other side more and now you are trying to inject nuance into it? You chose that line! You chose to act like the way he is going about it is atypical, then I proved that not only did it absolutely seem like the typical way coaches hire their assistants but it's even in line with how the Giants normally do it with bringing in people that had prior associations with the team. (Which honestly makes the point you were trying to make even less valid)

You are very fairly being labeled an optimist because you are professing viewpoints that aren't really derived from the evidence in front of us.
this is tiring bc you seem to see only your opinions as facts  
Eric on Li : 3/19/2020 6:37 pm : link
I don't know how much clearer I can be than to say any commentary on what happens before there are games played is an opinion. The facts of whether the coaching hires are good or bad, or the FA signings, or Judge for that matter will not be decided on a message board by you, me or anyone else, they will be decided next fall and beyond. Nothing before then is actual factual evidence, it's an opinion on a message board.
Like I said you are trying to change things  
NoGainDayne : 3/19/2020 6:41 pm : link
you were the one that said there was evidence to believe he was hiring in an atypical way in line with his vision.

I provided evidence to the contrary, that he was actually hiring in a very typical way as in people closely attached to him and the organization he works for.

You are bringing it back to a different point about good vs. bad and i've already made the point that we don't have enough information.

You were the one that acted like there was reason to believe you had evidence of something that the facts (IE he has hired people that he's worked with and have ties to the organization) do not support the claim of the way he hired his coaching staff to be atypical. The very thing you seem to be excited about has a tenuous grasp on factual evidence at best.
Oh and sorry spouting off BS talking points as fact is so tiring for  
NoGainDayne : 3/19/2020 6:43 pm : link
you.

Sad face.
NoGain  
Bill2 : 3/19/2020 7:01 pm : link
Out of concern for a long time poster:

You continue to go downhill mentally and emotionally

Fact. Not speculation, Not a personal attack. A request to take care of your self and be happier
walk away from the thread for 3 days  
Bill2 : 3/19/2020 7:05 pm : link
Come back and look at the tone and exchanges from the op of the thread.

Then mind open look at when and how you jumped in and how much energy you spent trying to put down a guy you don't know

Not you at your best. Take care of yourself
Bill, I've been largely away from the board  
NoGainDayne : 3/19/2020 7:43 pm : link
but since I've been back I've seen you say the same thing to McL. Obviously trying times and my patience for the overly optimistic viewpoints which aren't grounded in fact is low, admittedly.

Honestly, the emotional thing seems like something easy to toss at people who look a lot more right than wrong. I'll rarely enter a discussion without a well thought out basis for my arguments. I get that others disagree but it's my opinion that we are continuing to act as if we should believe in our leadership when it would be far more beneficial to be skeptical and quick to ask for more wholesale changes if we continue to perform in this manner.

You've always had thoughtful, intelligent posts and I have respect for you as a poster. But in the last year or so they seem overly slanted towards defending the Giants, I've talked to other posters off the board who share these sentiments. That's not to say that your opinions aren't providing value but that is to say traditionally i'd look at your view as less slanted but less so now.

I genuinely appreciate the sentiments but again, seeing the above posts, it feels like it is framing my points as less legitimate.

Don't get me wrong, there are things about the JJ hire that have me more optimistic than I've been in a bit. But personally i'd much rather see a situation where the organization takes overhauling its practices top to bottom legitimately than see them slip further into the punch line they are staring squarely in the mirror at. I don't think fans being in the practice of deluding themselves helps that at all.
NoGain  
Bill2 : 3/19/2020 8:13 pm : link
My position on the Giants is that the past is very frustrating.

The future is unknown. I prefer to be neutral about things I cant control and when the only facts will emerge in the future

That's my core objection to the tenor of the board. We don't know. I see more and more speculation stated as certainty filling in the vacumm of our impatience.

Its an auto response to unfounded negativity. ( we can always find reasons to be negative...its too easy). The unfounded optimism I unfortunately dismiss as hopa hopa and it doesn't annoy me as much.

We have a lot of posters who make up their arguments and have given up their best ---which is when they acknowledge uncertainty and strive for balance.

When we don't know attacking those who base their optimism in a different emotional take is pot calling kettle black

We all have the right to take scraps and call them possibly good or possibly bad. We are rooted in out outlooks. What amazes me is two camps rooted in emotion in the face of the unknown future find solid ground to ridicule a different take on the unknown

We are all passing time until this unfolds over several years. Near as I know the world as always been about 50% tending to optimists and 50% tending to pessimists.

The common ground of both is we don't know yet and there is a ton we don't know and finally, we are all sick and tired of losing. We forget those three things tom easily. Imo.
Oh and a  
Bill2 : 3/19/2020 8:17 pm : link
I don't care what folks say about other posters off the board.

I left junior high and built a life. Its much more fun.
...  
christian : 3/19/2020 8:25 pm : link
This UFA season is similar to slightly more aggressive than last season. I like the age and production more with the bigger investments.

But this isn't a gigantic shift.

Many players with ties to the coaching staff's past lives, many short term contracts, a few prove it deals.

Gettleman sacrificed dead money last year, and turned that into flexibility to invest more this year.

As posted above the 3 big contracts absolutely have to be cornerstone starters. The Giants desperately need to supplement their drafts with vets who stick around.
exactly Christian  
Bill2 : 3/19/2020 8:35 pm : link
Its as if DG was given his third set of guidelines.

1) Win now

2) Scrap and re start

3) Build solidly and methodically
NoGainDayne  
Sean : 3/19/2020 8:42 pm : link
I get what you’re saying, but it seems Judge has been given a lot of authority. He won’t say Daniel Jones by name. It’s been reported that Giant coaches were working extremely long hours at the combine. He has not fed into any media baiting regarding players.

With regards to FA, I don’t sense desperation in an attempt to win next year.

Of course there are still many unknowns, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be encouraged.
RE: exactly Christian  
Eric on Li : 3/19/2020 10:03 pm : link
In comment 14843229 Bill2 said:
Quote:
Its as if DG was given his third set of guidelines.

1) Win now

2) Scrap and re start

3) Build solidly and methodically


I see many more similarities in terms of how they've seemed to go about these last 2 offseasons vs. the first. Adding Zeitler/Tate in March19 seemed to be methodical additions anticipating a young QB (and wanting to surround him with competent professionals). And while there were fewer players to scrap this offseason, there was an entire coaching staff.

Either way the organization is now oriented to stake the accumulation of a half decade on Jones/Judge with a clean cap and some other high picks around them. However he played his hands each of the last few years to get here, that's what DG has gone all in with.
Most analytics being conducted in  
kicker : 3/27/2020 2:00 pm : link
the NFL is shitty analytics. It's league-wide.
RE: Most analytics being conducted in  
NoGainDayne : 3/27/2020 2:07 pm : link
In comment 14851511 kicker said:
Quote:
the NFL is shitty analytics. It's league-wide.


Yes i'd agree. But where the Pats are leading the way, capitalizing on the engineering talent in Boston, we haven't done anywhere close to the same. I think that's what makes it the most negligent on the part of the Giants. Other cities don't have many people necessarily capable of building the kinds of complex systems you need to use predictive analytics in football but NY has many and has had many.

PT Barnum woukd have loved you guys  
arniefez : 3/27/2020 2:23 pm : link
The Giants have the worst edges in the NFL on both sides of the ball. They have done absolutely nothing to improve them on either side of the ball so far. But carry on.
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