but Odell Beckham definitely is an omission. Better than either Toomer or Cruz. I would have also selected Nicks over Cruz personally.
Otherwise I generally agree with all of it though I find Simms and Manning a coin toss as the starter.
I think you have to factor in what a player meant to the team and his contribution to post-season success.
When we revised this back in 2016, I was sure Odell would be on it soon. But I'm not sure three great seasons and no playoff wins justifies an inclusion on an all-time list.
honorable mention for Antonio Pierce at MLB. And the career of Cruz seems too short to win out. Why is he over OBJ and Nicks? Shows weakness at the position.
RE: Great work and glad no OBJ - now on to the nitpicking
honorable mention for Antonio Pierce at MLB. And the career of Cruz seems too short to win out. Why is he over OBJ and Nicks? Shows weakness at the position.
Problem was Pierce was competing against Harry Carson.
RE: Great work and glad no OBJ - now on to the nitpicking
His name was mentioned when Eric & I were discussing the revision, and we're braced for any blowback for not including him.
Bad choice. He was way better than Toomer. And I seem to recall Plax having some off-field issues.
Beckham had seemingly unlimited potential at one point and his career appeared to be on an upward trajectory between 2014 and the 2016 regular season. Then came the pitiable performance at Green Bay in the Wild card game, injuries, and that business decision to not recover the onsides against the Bears before removing himself from the lineup the remainder of the 2018 season.
Was he a talented player? Yes.
Was he an All-Time Giant? In our opinion, no.
When we revisit this team in five or so years and possibly break out a Post-Lockout Era lineup, Beckham's name will certainly be brought up again. Perhaps he'll make the cut then.
Toomer and Cruz have bodies of work that most certainly validate their inclusion on this team.
Did he show up against Philly in 2008? At least OBJ was on the field against GB. In 2008, we might have won another Lombardi. In 2016 we weren't going anywhere. To be clear, I think Plaxico is deserving in spite of his problems. I just think the criteria is not consistent.
And just noticed no even honorable mention of Landon Collins who had one of the best years a Giants safety ever had. Instead the thoroughly mediocre Greg Jackson.
Love your site and I love Larry's work but not a great job on this one IMO. That's all I have to say on it.
If there was a Top 10 Giants who disappeared in the big games list
And just noticed no even honorable mention of Landon Collins who had one of the best years a Giants safety ever had. Instead the thoroughly mediocre Greg Jackson.
Love your site and I love Larry's work but not a great job on this one IMO. That's all I have to say on it.
Greg Jackson was far better than mediocre. Rewatch the 1990 playoff games against San Francisco and Buffalo. Jackson had Collins' tackling abilities and he could also cover, and he did it for a longer period of time. Collins one great year in 2016 unfortunately may have been an anomoly. He hasn't come anywhere close to that peak the past three seasons.
Plaxico is one of the major reasons why the Giants won an NFL title. Beckham will be remembered as a flash in the pan who the Giants dumped at the right time.
An all-time list is not just about talent, but about what you meant to the team.
One thing for certain. The Giants have many historic players and coaches.
I learned quite a bit about the early years. I never knew Al Blozis was a star in the making or Owens was quite the player before being a coach. Then you have Danowski and his ties to the Maras and Lombardi and what a player he was but really not mentioned much on BBI with other Giants QB's.
Thanks again for the efforts putting this together.
The Giants modern era “2nd team” DL is amazing...Justin Tuck, Erik Howard, George Martin, Osi Umenyora.
I 100% agree with Toomer and Cruz as your WR picks with Plax honorable mention, while omitting OBJ.
Those 3 have resumes full of big time performances in big games, including playoffs. Toomer in the 2000 and 2007 playoffs, Plax in the Green Bay ice bowl, Cruz in the SF championship game.
OBJ turned in his worst game as a Giant in his one playoff shot
Thank you so much for doing this. I've seen all of the players from the 60's till today. I hope some of the players on these lists read this board time to time. They would be proud.
One thing for certain. The Giants have many historic players and coaches.
I learned quite a bit about the early years. I never knew Al Blozis was a star in the making or Owens was quite the player before being a coach. Then you have Danowski and his ties to the Maras and Lombardi and what a player he was but really not mentioned much on BBI with other Giants QB's.
Thanks again for the efforts putting this together.
You're welcome. That's the reason I love doing this, I'm glad you enjoyed it. The first 30 years of the giants history is fascinating, and unfortunately overlooked and nearly forgotten.
RE: Great read, thanks for putting the effort into all the write ups!
The Giants modern era “2nd team” DL is amazing...Justin Tuck, Erik Howard, George Martin, Osi Umenyora.
I 100% agree with Toomer and Cruz as your WR picks with Plax honorable mention, while omitting OBJ.
Those 3 have resumes full of big time performances in big games, including playoffs. Toomer in the 2000 and 2007 playoffs, Plax in the Green Bay ice bowl, Cruz in the SF championship game.
OBJ turned in his worst game as a Giant in his one playoff shot
Toomer was unstoppable in the 2002 Wild Card game in San Francisco. If the Giants hadn't melted down that would've been remembered as one of the Giants great performances.
Excellent job, I refuse to get into any nit picking pissing contest
GREAT JOB, Thank you for ommiting Beckham, including Cruz and Toomer, Toomer had a great run in the 2007 playoffs, had significant contributions in all 4 playoff games, and didn't cost us a great opportunity with the best Coughlin team by shooting himself either. Cruz and Toomer were no brainers in my view.
RE: RE: Great read, thanks for putting the effort into all the write ups!
The Giants modern era “2nd team” DL is amazing...Justin Tuck, Erik Howard, George Martin, Osi Umenyora.
I 100% agree with Toomer and Cruz as your WR picks with Plax honorable mention, while omitting OBJ.
Those 3 have resumes full of big time performances in big games, including playoffs. Toomer in the 2000 and 2007 playoffs, Plax in the Green Bay ice bowl, Cruz in the SF championship game.
OBJ turned in his worst game as a Giant in his one playoff shot
Toomer was unstoppable in the 2002 Wild Card game in San Francisco. If the Giants hadn't melted down that would've been remembered as one of the Giants great performances.
Yup spot on, omission on my part, but that was Toomer in his prime. Heck of a career.
Oldutican, Mendenhall had garbage around him? He had
Jack Gregory next to him for most of his career and Jim Files right behind him for some of his career, just to mention a few. IMO, Gregory was better at RDE than Mendenhall was at RDT.
thank you so much for doing this. I can go back to 1961 although I was not old enough to absorb all of the football. The Robustelli's, Gifford's, and company were very much hero's at that time. Before those days, many of the names were not known to me other than greats like Charlie Conerly, or Mel Hein. There are so many great Giants on this list. Taylor and Carson are personal favorites along with Bavaro for hard nosed football. There are several that are honorable mention that are very good football players.
Very impressive and I refuse to argue about who is better.
56 on I saw those guys play. I enjoyed the read, but I usually don’t like articles like this because of the tough choices.
For example, I love Eli, but to me Phil Simms was the guy. He brought the Giants back from the depths and played in a much tougher era for quarterbacks.
Hard to argue Eli s statistic s, but in my view Simms was the better quarterback.
His name was mentioned when Eric & I were discussing the revision, and we're braced for any blowback for not including him.
Otherwise I generally agree with all of it though I find Simms and Manning a coin toss as the starter.
I love Mendenhall, one of my all time favorites, but even I wouldn't put him ahead of Rosey.
Otherwise I generally agree with all of it though I find Simms and Manning a coin toss as the starter.
I think you have to factor in what a player meant to the team and his contribution to post-season success.
When we revised this back in 2016, I was sure Odell would be on it soon. But I'm not sure three great seasons and no playoff wins justifies an inclusion on an all-time list.
I love Mendenhall, one of my all time favorites, but even I wouldn't put him ahead of Rosey.
A tough choice. But Mendy had garbage around him and still stood out.
Kyle Rote is on the list.
Problem was Pierce was competing against Harry Carson.
I love Mendenhall, one of my all time favorites, but even I wouldn't put him ahead of Rosey.
The RB pool for that era was very deep with a lot of difficult choices. We left off Joe Morris too.
Rosey Grier was inconsistent, and was debated as well.
Quote:
but glad he is not listed
His name was mentioned when Eric & I were discussing the revision, and we're braced for any blowback for not including him.
Bad choice. He was way better than Toomer. And I seem to recall Plax having some off-field issues.
That's a great point, and something I maight actually dig into.
I just read a description of the 1925 Giants line averaging 192 pounds, which was considered heavy for the time!
Quote:
In comment 14844908 SomeFan said:
Quote:
but glad he is not listed
His name was mentioned when Eric & I were discussing the revision, and we're braced for any blowback for not including him.
Bad choice. He was way better than Toomer. And I seem to recall Plax having some off-field issues.
Beckham had seemingly unlimited potential at one point and his career appeared to be on an upward trajectory between 2014 and the 2016 regular season. Then came the pitiable performance at Green Bay in the Wild card game, injuries, and that business decision to not recover the onsides against the Bears before removing himself from the lineup the remainder of the 2018 season.
Was he a talented player? Yes.
Was he an All-Time Giant? In our opinion, no.
When we revisit this team in five or so years and possibly break out a Post-Lockout Era lineup, Beckham's name will certainly be brought up again. Perhaps he'll make the cut then.
Toomer and Cruz have bodies of work that most certainly validate their inclusion on this team.
You're welcome! This was a very enjoyable project to work on and revisit.
Did he show up against Philly in 2008? At least OBJ was on the field against GB. In 2008, we might have won another Lombardi. In 2016 we weren't going anywhere. To be clear, I think Plaxico is deserving in spite of his problems. I just think the criteria is not consistent.
And just noticed no even honorable mention of Landon Collins who had one of the best years a Giants safety ever had. Instead the thoroughly mediocre Greg Jackson.
Love your site and I love Larry's work but not a great job on this one IMO. That's all I have to say on it.
Greg Jackson was a much better player than you give him credit for.
Thanks
Quote:
Plaxico showed up in Green Bay. Odell did not.
And just noticed no even honorable mention of Landon Collins who had one of the best years a Giants safety ever had. Instead the thoroughly mediocre Greg Jackson.
Love your site and I love Larry's work but not a great job on this one IMO. That's all I have to say on it.
Greg Jackson was far better than mediocre. Rewatch the 1990 playoff games against San Francisco and Buffalo. Jackson had Collins' tackling abilities and he could also cover, and he did it for a longer period of time. Collins one great year in 2016 unfortunately may have been an anomoly. He hasn't come anywhere close to that peak the past three seasons.
An all-time list is not just about talent, but about what you meant to the team.
I learned quite a bit about the early years. I never knew Al Blozis was a star in the making or Owens was quite the player before being a coach. Then you have Danowski and his ties to the Maras and Lombardi and what a player he was but really not mentioned much on BBI with other Giants QB's.
Thanks again for the efforts putting this together.
Plaxico > Beckham.
Plaxico > Beckham.
Meggett's story is disturbing beyond belief. It sucks because he was a great player.
I 100% agree with Toomer and Cruz as your WR picks with Plax honorable mention, while omitting OBJ.
Those 3 have resumes full of big time performances in big games, including playoffs. Toomer in the 2000 and 2007 playoffs, Plax in the Green Bay ice bowl, Cruz in the SF championship game.
OBJ turned in his worst game as a Giant in his one playoff shot
What's the typo?
I dunno
I dunno
His jersey.
I learned quite a bit about the early years. I never knew Al Blozis was a star in the making or Owens was quite the player before being a coach. Then you have Danowski and his ties to the Maras and Lombardi and what a player he was but really not mentioned much on BBI with other Giants QB's.
Thanks again for the efforts putting this together.
You're welcome. That's the reason I love doing this, I'm glad you enjoyed it. The first 30 years of the giants history is fascinating, and unfortunately overlooked and nearly forgotten.
I 100% agree with Toomer and Cruz as your WR picks with Plax honorable mention, while omitting OBJ.
Those 3 have resumes full of big time performances in big games, including playoffs. Toomer in the 2000 and 2007 playoffs, Plax in the Green Bay ice bowl, Cruz in the SF championship game.
OBJ turned in his worst game as a Giant in his one playoff shot
Toomer was unstoppable in the 2002 Wild Card game in San Francisco. If the Giants hadn't melted down that would've been remembered as one of the Giants great performances.
Quote:
The Giants modern era “2nd team” DL is amazing...Justin Tuck, Erik Howard, George Martin, Osi Umenyora.
I 100% agree with Toomer and Cruz as your WR picks with Plax honorable mention, while omitting OBJ.
Those 3 have resumes full of big time performances in big games, including playoffs. Toomer in the 2000 and 2007 playoffs, Plax in the Green Bay ice bowl, Cruz in the SF championship game.
OBJ turned in his worst game as a Giant in his one playoff shot
Toomer was unstoppable in the 2002 Wild Card game in San Francisco. If the Giants hadn't melted down that would've been remembered as one of the Giants great performances.
Yup spot on, omission on my part, but that was Toomer in his prime. Heck of a career.
Very impressive and I refuse to argue about who is better.
Thank you.
For example, I love Eli, but to me Phil Simms was the guy. He brought the Giants back from the depths and played in a much tougher era for quarterbacks.
Hard to argue Eli s statistic s, but in my view Simms was the better quarterback.