Having said that, our two biggest assets are DJ and Saquon. Let's get them protected and set up for Long Term success. Draft OL early and often and put it to rest. We can complete the overhaul of the Defense next year. Let's completely finish the O in 2020.
What 5 letters, starts with “Wi “ and ends “s” ?
Answer ... the Giants 1st round pick ... but is it Wirfs or Wills ?
and if they trade down, the decision might be made for them.
Why are some concerned about arm length. 34 inches seems to be fine. A lot of top/good tackles in the league range from 33 3/8 to 34 1/4. Trent William's, terron armstead, Joe Staley, jason peters, david Bakhtiari, jake Matthew's, Laremy tunsil.
I'd go OT and C with our first 2 picks (unless the value for pick 2 just isn't there). We've gotta set SB and DJ up for success. I know we need alot of help on D, but the whole team will feed off an improved O, and it will help keep the D fresh and off the field. A trade down would be nice, but if we don't get a solid offer, take our highest rated OT and call it a successful Day 1. I lean towards Wills or Wirfs but figure the guys calling the shots know more than me.
Sy's OT rankings are gonna be really interesting this year
he's had a pretty good track record there and these top 4 seem really bunched together.
I think everyone is sleeping on Thomas. He has 36 inch arms, ran 7.58 3 cone at 6'5/315 pounds (better than Wirfs), and is battle tested at LT in the SEC. Not very many holes in that resume.
Last year's top OT off the board (Jonah Williams pick #11) ran the 3 cone in 8.0, at 302 pounds, and had sub 34' arms. He was a technician who was battle tested at Bama.
All 4 of the top OT's this year could have a claim to be first off the board in the top 10.
he's had a pretty good track record there and these top 4 seem really bunched together.
This is why a tradeback would be so ideal this year. If we can get an extra pick or two from one of the qb-needy teams, we'll still end up with a bookend, 10-year T plus additional quality draft depth.
I'd go OT and C with our first 2 picks (unless the value for pick 2 just isn't there). We've gotta set SB and DJ up for success. I know we need alot of help on D, but the whole team will feed off an improved O, and it will help keep the D fresh and off the field. A trade down would be nice, but if we don't get a solid offer, take our highest rated OT and call it a successful Day 1. I lean towards Wills or Wirfs but figure the guys calling the shots know more than me.
I agree with OT in the first, but think we can get a decent defender in round 2 ILO a Center, which should be considered in round 3 or 4.
My issue with Wills is that Bama OL have not always translated
Warmack, Fluker, A. Smith, Cam, Koundajo, Carpenter. More than any other CFB program Bama has had elite OL units and I wonder if that in part leads to some of the individual players getting elevated (sort of like Wisconsin OL in the 90's).
Past is not predictive - I haven't watched every snap of any of these OL and am not planning to, maybe Wills is the guy who breaks the Bama trend, but I'm not sure he's head and shoulders better than the other 3 this year. I see incredibly unique talents athletically in all 4 that would probably rank them above all the other top OT's that drafted since Stanley/Tunsil in 2016.
What I mean by that is, he seems to be a really bright and hard working kid and can play RT immediately and perhaps be a successor to Solder. Just from watching him in multiple interviews he seems to have an “it” factor to him when it comes to leadership/teamwork qualities. Again I don’t really have anything to back that up, I just get an overall Giant vibe from him. He has a similar personality to Hernandez it seems. Outgoing. And from what it looks like he might be the best athlete at the OT position this year. Again all of the above doesn’t necessarily mean great success, but he seems to have “it” maybe more so than Thomas, Wills, or Becton.
I'm in the saturation bombing camp. Dallas did it with the OL several years ago and solidified their line. SF did it with 4 DBs back in the day and started all 4 (one a HOF).
We need to protect DJ and open holes for Bark. As others have said if our offense can run the ball and keep the other teams offense off the field we can shorten the game and rest our D. I'm tired of us drafting OL, DB, WR, LB, K, whatever and whiffing on several of our picks. It solves nothing.
I'd use 3 of the first 4 picks on OL. Maybe sneak a WR in with the 3rd pick since this draft seems loaded at that position.
Our free agent signings seem to lean toward D. Saturate with OL and maybe 1 or 2 hit. Who knows maybe all three. But don't take one and pray it works out. It hasn't worked in the past. What have we got to lose. Everything's broken. Start with the OL. Next year repeat with the defense. Everything's Broken by Kenny Wayne Shepherd - ( New Window )
an odd year in that there is no consensus about the #1 or even #2 guy among the OLs. I was reading draft reports today and one guy had Wirf as the #4 OT, and he thought he was more a high second rounder.
where you at? I'm in Franconia, a couple miles from Cannon Mtn and the Notch. But spent 23 years in and around Concord. Grew up in Wyckoff, Bergen Cty.
"My issue with Wills is that Bama OL have not always translated"
You evaluate players not programs. Jonah played well last year as a rookie and the first OT taken. Wills is a better prospect. He also played a higher level of comp during his career in the SEC than Wirfs and Becton.
You evaluate players not programs. Jonah played well last year as a rookie and the first OT taken. Wills is a better prospect. He also played a higher level of comp during his career in the SEC than Wirfs and Becton.
Hahahaha, wrong. Jonah didn't play a single snap last year.
an odd year in that there is no consensus about the #1 or even #2 guy among the OLs. I was reading draft reports today and one guy had Wirf as the #4 OT, and he thought he was more a high second rounder.
There is a YouTube video of a guy who breaks down Wills and Wirfs. He says both are gonna be good pros but Wills is way more pro ready and has excellent technique and is more nasty. He showed how Wirfs would turn his shoulders perpendicular to the line of scrimmage and would get beat inside and be caught off balance. A lot of Wirfs issue were to the type of angle he would take on his steps.
He also mentions that Wills plays like he does a lot of film study. He picked out the edge defenders stances and how perfectly Wills reacted to them, like he knew what was coming. And excellent video.
You evaluate players not programs. Jonah played well last year as a rookie and the first OT taken. Wills is a better prospect. He also played a higher level of comp during his career in the SEC than Wirfs and Becton.
Jonah Williams didn't play a game last year for the Bengals.
it matters which player fits which team's scheme and profile.
That's why Jones was a no-brainer last year. This year what has to be decided is which player fits the style of offense Garrett is going to implement.
yup. Thomas has Tyron Smith arms but not his movement. Wirfs and Wills have the movement. Becton is just a unicorn. Interviews will likely be a big tie breaker too. Nice to have a former bama and uga coaches on the staff.
unlike most teams, the Giants do not spend a ton of time on players they have zero questions about, not the ones they aren't interested in. Usually they investigate the hell out of players they have questions about but aren't interested in drafting or signing.
RE: Sy's OT rankings are gonna be really interesting this year
he's had a pretty good track record there and these top 4 seem really bunched together.
I think everyone is sleeping on Thomas. He has 36 inch arms, ran 7.58 3 cone at 6'5/315 pounds (better than Wirfs), and is battle tested at LT in the SEC. Not very many holes in that resume.
Last year's top OT off the board (Jonah Williams pick #11) ran the 3 cone in 8.0, at 302 pounds, and had sub 34' arms. He was a technician who was battle tested at Bama.
All 4 of the top OT's this year could have a claim to be first off the board in the top 10.
Jonah isn't in Wills class physically and test wise. Also he had work to do to get to NFL strength level.
an odd year in that there is no consensus about the #1 or even #2 guy among the OLs. I was reading draft reports today and one guy had Wirf as the #4 OT, and he thought he was more a high second rounder.
This is why you take Simmons over the OTs in this draft. Simmons is about a sure as there is in this draft outside of Chase Young.
"Simmons is about a sure as there is in this draft"
Simmons has a flaw and it's an obvious one. He's not strong at the PoA when taking on blockers. Some of this can be compensated for with scheme but there will be times it's exposed when he's part of the front seven as he certainly will be. As with all rookies there are parts of their game that need improvement.
RE: also keep in mind dating back to Kenny Phillips
unlike most teams, the Giants do not spend a ton of time on players they have zero questions about, not the ones they aren't interested in. Usually they investigate the hell out of players they have questions about but aren't interested in drafting or signing.
I believe that changed in the last couple years since they started dramatically cutting down their board.
Simmons has a flaw and it's an obvious one. He's not strong at the PoA when taking on blockers. Some of this can be compensated for with scheme but there will be times it's exposed when he's part of the front seven as he certainly will be. As with all rookies there are parts of their game that need improvement.
That’s why you put 3 big DTs in front of him (Williams, Lawrence, and Tomlinson) and a physical ILB (Martinez) next to him and let him make plays sideline to sideline. The kid is 21, he’ll get bigger and stronger and will eventually be able to shed blocks.
Simmons has a flaw and it's an obvious one. He's not strong at the PoA when taking on blockers. Some of this can be compensated for with scheme but there will be times it's exposed when he's part of the front seven as he certainly will be. As with all rookies there are parts of their game that need improvement.
That’s why you put 3 big DTs in front of him (Williams, Lawrence, and Tomlinson) and a physical ILB (Martinez) next to him and let him make plays sideline to sideline. The kid is 21, he’ll get bigger and stronger and will eventually be able to shed blocks.
That's all he needs? Just three big DT's in front of him and a physical ILB next to him?
I'd figure that a guy worth the #4 pick in the draft wouldn't need all that help, but that's just me.
Simmons has a flaw and it's an obvious one. He's not strong at the PoA when taking on blockers. Some of this can be compensated for with scheme but there will be times it's exposed when he's part of the front seven as he certainly will be. As with all rookies there are parts of their game that need improvement.
That’s why you put 3 big DTs in front of him (Williams, Lawrence, and Tomlinson) and a physical ILB (Martinez) next to him and let him make plays sideline to sideline. The kid is 21, he’ll get bigger and stronger and will eventually be able to shed blocks.
Exactly - I dont understand why everyone thinks this one flaw makes him a terrible pick - Am I to believe that "shedding a block" is not coachable?
I get that everyone wants a OL - I want one too but reaching for one is dumb, the people who want one of the tackles can't even agree on which lineman is the best one but they want to pick one at 4 regardless.
Yet most people agree that Simmons is the best linebacker in the draft and worthy of a top 10 pick. He also fills a need that we have - I think we are lucky if he falls to us.
they would entertain their #9 and #20 to move up to 4? I don’t know what the value chart says, but that would give us 3 picks in the top 36. One of the OT’s, an ER, and maybe a WR?
Simmons has a flaw and it's an obvious one. He's not strong at the PoA when taking on blockers. Some of this can be compensated for with scheme but there will be times it's exposed when he's part of the front seven as he certainly will be. As with all rookies there are parts of their game that need improvement.
That’s why you put 3 big DTs in front of him (Williams, Lawrence, and Tomlinson) and a physical ILB (Martinez) next to him and let him make plays sideline to sideline. The kid is 21, he’ll get bigger and stronger and will eventually be able to shed blocks.
That's all he needs? Just three big DT's in front of him and a physical ILB next to him?
I'd figure that a guy worth the #4 pick in the draft wouldn't need all that help, but that's just me.
He’s a kid. Not a finished product. He has the higher ceiling of all the OT prospect.
"Simmons: why everyone thinks this one flaw makes him a terrible pick"
I didn't say that. I just want people to be accurate. Stop with the this guy is XYZ like he's the second coming. He can also get stronger and improve his weakness.
I've said all along he's an unusual prospect and if we weren't totally fucked at OT with worthy options at the position I'd seriously consider drafting him #4...but we can't.
What do you mean by that?
Answer ... the Giants 1st round pick ... but is it Wirfs or Wills ?
and if they trade down, the decision might be made for them.
I think everyone is sleeping on Thomas. He has 36 inch arms, ran 7.58 3 cone at 6'5/315 pounds (better than Wirfs), and is battle tested at LT in the SEC. Not very many holes in that resume.
Last year's top OT off the board (Jonah Williams pick #11) ran the 3 cone in 8.0, at 302 pounds, and had sub 34' arms. He was a technician who was battle tested at Bama.
All 4 of the top OT's this year could have a claim to be first off the board in the top 10.
Thomas has high ceiling, dominant run blocker but worse pass pro tape than either Wills or Wirfs.
Wirfs has high ceiling but risk is he could end up at OG.
Becton is a physical freak but be honest he is way behind on how to play pro techniques.
This is why a tradeback would be so ideal this year. If we can get an extra pick or two from one of the qb-needy teams, we'll still end up with a bookend, 10-year T plus additional quality draft depth.
I agree with OT in the first, but think we can get a decent defender in round 2 ILO a Center, which should be considered in round 3 or 4.
Past is not predictive - I haven't watched every snap of any of these OL and am not planning to, maybe Wills is the guy who breaks the Bama trend, but I'm not sure he's head and shoulders better than the other 3 this year. I see incredibly unique talents athletically in all 4 that would probably rank them above all the other top OT's that drafted since Stanley/Tunsil in 2016.
We need to protect DJ and open holes for Bark. As others have said if our offense can run the ball and keep the other teams offense off the field we can shorten the game and rest our D. I'm tired of us drafting OL, DB, WR, LB, K, whatever and whiffing on several of our picks. It solves nothing.
I'd use 3 of the first 4 picks on OL. Maybe sneak a WR in with the 3rd pick since this draft seems loaded at that position.
Our free agent signings seem to lean toward D. Saturate with OL and maybe 1 or 2 hit. Who knows maybe all three. But don't take one and pray it works out. It hasn't worked in the past. What have we got to lose. Everything's broken. Start with the OL. Next year repeat with the defense.
Everything's Broken by Kenny Wayne Shepherd - ( New Window )
Hahahaha, wrong. Jonah didn't play a single snap last year.
Thomas has high ceiling, dominant run blocker but worse pass pro tape than either Wills or Wirfs.
Wirfs has high ceiling but risk is he could end up at OG.
Becton is a physical freak but be honest he is way behind on how to play pro techniques.
This is exactly how I feel. Wirfs is the only pick at 4 I would hate. Becton ain't going at 4 and you can trade down if you want Wirfs
There is a YouTube video of a guy who breaks down Wills and Wirfs. He says both are gonna be good pros but Wills is way more pro ready and has excellent technique and is more nasty. He showed how Wirfs would turn his shoulders perpendicular to the line of scrimmage and would get beat inside and be caught off balance. A lot of Wirfs issue were to the type of angle he would take on his steps.
He also mentions that Wills plays like he does a lot of film study. He picked out the edge defenders stances and how perfectly Wills reacted to them, like he knew what was coming. And excellent video.
Jonah Williams didn't play a game last year for the Bengals.
That's why Jones was a no-brainer last year. This year what has to be decided is which player fits the style of offense Garrett is going to implement.
That's why Jones was a no-brainer last year. This year what has to be decided is which player fits the style of offense Garrett is going to implement.
yup. Thomas has Tyron Smith arms but not his movement. Wirfs and Wills have the movement. Becton is just a unicorn. Interviews will likely be a big tie breaker too. Nice to have a former bama and uga coaches on the staff.
I think everyone is sleeping on Thomas. He has 36 inch arms, ran 7.58 3 cone at 6'5/315 pounds (better than Wirfs), and is battle tested at LT in the SEC. Not very many holes in that resume.
Last year's top OT off the board (Jonah Williams pick #11) ran the 3 cone in 8.0, at 302 pounds, and had sub 34' arms. He was a technician who was battle tested at Bama.
All 4 of the top OT's this year could have a claim to be first off the board in the top 10.
Jonah isn't in Wills class physically and test wise. Also he had work to do to get to NFL strength level.
This is why you take Simmons over the OTs in this draft. Simmons is about a sure as there is in this draft outside of Chase Young.
I believe that changed in the last couple years since they started dramatically cutting down their board.
FFS that is America today!
That’s why you put 3 big DTs in front of him (Williams, Lawrence, and Tomlinson) and a physical ILB (Martinez) next to him and let him make plays sideline to sideline. The kid is 21, he’ll get bigger and stronger and will eventually be able to shed blocks.
Quote:
Simmons has a flaw and it's an obvious one. He's not strong at the PoA when taking on blockers. Some of this can be compensated for with scheme but there will be times it's exposed when he's part of the front seven as he certainly will be. As with all rookies there are parts of their game that need improvement.
That’s why you put 3 big DTs in front of him (Williams, Lawrence, and Tomlinson) and a physical ILB (Martinez) next to him and let him make plays sideline to sideline. The kid is 21, he’ll get bigger and stronger and will eventually be able to shed blocks.
That's all he needs? Just three big DT's in front of him and a physical ILB next to him?
I'd figure that a guy worth the #4 pick in the draft wouldn't need all that help, but that's just me.
Quote:
Simmons has a flaw and it's an obvious one. He's not strong at the PoA when taking on blockers. Some of this can be compensated for with scheme but there will be times it's exposed when he's part of the front seven as he certainly will be. As with all rookies there are parts of their game that need improvement.
That’s why you put 3 big DTs in front of him (Williams, Lawrence, and Tomlinson) and a physical ILB (Martinez) next to him and let him make plays sideline to sideline. The kid is 21, he’ll get bigger and stronger and will eventually be able to shed blocks.
Exactly - I dont understand why everyone thinks this one flaw makes him a terrible pick - Am I to believe that "shedding a block" is not coachable?
I get that everyone wants a OL - I want one too but reaching for one is dumb, the people who want one of the tackles can't even agree on which lineman is the best one but they want to pick one at 4 regardless.
Yet most people agree that Simmons is the best linebacker in the draft and worthy of a top 10 pick. He also fills a need that we have - I think we are lucky if he falls to us.
Quote:
In comment 14845487 Torrag said:
Quote:
Simmons has a flaw and it's an obvious one. He's not strong at the PoA when taking on blockers. Some of this can be compensated for with scheme but there will be times it's exposed when he's part of the front seven as he certainly will be. As with all rookies there are parts of their game that need improvement.
That’s why you put 3 big DTs in front of him (Williams, Lawrence, and Tomlinson) and a physical ILB (Martinez) next to him and let him make plays sideline to sideline. The kid is 21, he’ll get bigger and stronger and will eventually be able to shed blocks.
That's all he needs? Just three big DT's in front of him and a physical ILB next to him?
I'd figure that a guy worth the #4 pick in the draft wouldn't need all that help, but that's just me.
He’s a kid. Not a finished product. He has the higher ceiling of all the OT prospect.
I've said all along he's an unusual prospect and if we weren't totally fucked at OT with worthy options at the position I'd seriously consider drafting him #4...but we can't.