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O'Hara's comment about his discussion with Marc Colombo

Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/21/2020 6:10 pm
At the 6:38 mark... O'Hara talked to Marc Colombo at the NFL Combine...

"O-Lineman to O-Lineman, we're going to run the football. We're going to get back to smash-mouth football."


Shaun O'Hara - ( New Window )
I really hope we sign C Evan Boehm  
Anakim : 3/21/2020 6:20 pm : link
Can't imagine he costs a lot. He's still young and could at any IOL position, but his best fit is at C. We shouldn't have to go into the Draft knowing that we NEED to draft a C because we lack a good one on the roster.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: I really hope we sign C Evan Boehm  
Anakim : 3/21/2020 6:20 pm : link
In comment 14845307 Anakim said:
Quote:
Can't imagine he costs a lot. He's still young and could at any IOL position, but his best fit is at C. We shouldn't have to go into the Draft knowing that we NEED to draft a C because we lack a good one on the roster. Link - ( New Window )


*play


Link - ( New Window )
I'm sensing a blow out year for Barkley  
PatersonPlank : 3/21/2020 6:26 pm : link
not that his first 2 seasons were chopped liver
Paterson,  
Shepherdsam : 3/21/2020 6:47 pm : link
You mean like his knee, or his achilles?
Anak Boehm has things to recommend him  
Torrag : 3/21/2020 6:51 pm : link
He has some range and movement limitations but in the short area he's very effective. Smart, strong and tough. If Judge wants to play zone reach concepts he isn't going to be a good fit. So I guess it depends on the scheme.
Yeah, bad choice of words  
robbieballs2003 : 3/21/2020 6:51 pm : link
.
RE: Paterson,  
PatersonPlank : 3/21/2020 7:04 pm : link
In comment 14845326 Shepherdsam said:
Quote:
You mean like his knee, or his achilles?


Ha, I sure hope not. He may be exhausted from running too far though.
Well...  
Johnny5 : 3/21/2020 7:12 pm : link
… Helloooooooo Shep!!
Olinemen?  
LBH15 : 3/21/2020 7:12 pm : link
What’s wrong with the guys we have?
I will continue to add Danny Pinter as a developmental prospect @ C  
KeoweeFan : 3/21/2020 7:13 pm : link
Danny Pinter
An O'Hara clone from a small school (Ball State), Danny (a former TE) was a standout at RT at the NFL PA bowl and surprised at the combine with a 4.91 40 and 24 lifts.
Collected every leadership, community service and academic award available to him (graduated in 3 yrs and 3.85 Masters GPA.)

And I love how he sold the DE on this play:
Touchdown
When he goes to the Pro-Bowl, rember you heard it here first! (smile)
Hey Johnny!  
Shepherdsam : 3/21/2020 7:22 pm : link
I hope all is well.
RE: I'm sensing a blow out year for Barkley  
Jim in Tampa : 3/21/2020 7:27 pm : link
In comment 14845311 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
not that his first 2 seasons were chopped liver

Giants' fan predicts big year for one of their players.

Not exactly a surprise.
I'm okay with that,  
Dave in Hoboken : 3/21/2020 7:32 pm : link
but don't you need a really good OL to do that?
I hope  
Professor Falken : 3/21/2020 7:53 pm : link
we draft a tough RB in the later rounds who can spell Barkley here or there. Maybe AJ Dillon, from everybody's favorite, Boston College. Or Jo-El Shaw from Kent State.
If they want smash mouth football  
Chip : 3/21/2020 7:55 pm : link
Becton would fit the bill
So smash mouth football  
Rjanyg : 3/21/2020 8:04 pm : link
Means we are drafting 2 O Line back to back? Does anybody besides me think this pick 4 is too early for any of the O Line? Trading down to somewhere in picks 6-12 and getting a could more picks, maybe an extra 1st round pick makes sense if we go OT. If not and Simmons is there you gotta go with him.

Ezra Cleveland might be a good OT at pick 36.
Mr. Dillon .....  
Manny in CA : 3/21/2020 8:08 pm : link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCtzPho209Q
The only thing we've done to improve run blocking is signing Toilolo.  
Ira : 3/21/2020 8:16 pm : link
Our run blocking was bad last season.
Boehm  
XBRONX : 3/21/2020 8:16 pm : link
stunk for the Phins.
RE: Boehm  
Anakim : 3/21/2020 8:26 pm : link
In comment 14845388 XBRONX said:
Quote:
stunk for the Phins.


As a Guard he did. As a Center he played very well when he filled in for Kilgore (who is a free agent also).
it is not out of question that after film review of last season,  
plato : 3/21/2020 8:47 pm : link
judge and his staff concluded talent on our offensive line last season was poorly coached, schemed, utilized or whatever and that going forward the pieces are there for a strong running game with some correction.
Frankly i don’t know but i am sure there was film study and an evaluation of talent and last seasons coaching and decisions was made.
It will be interesting to see what choices are made going forward.m
Dillion is a beast  
Giant John : 3/21/2020 8:47 pm : link
That runs like a deer. Please Lord...
RE: RE: Boehm  
Jay on the Island : 3/21/2020 8:54 pm : link
In comment 14845394 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14845388 XBRONX said:


Quote:


stunk for the Phins.



As a Guard he did. As a Center he played very well when he filled in for Kilgore (who is a free agent also).

If it leads to Pulley's removal from the roster I am in.
where've you been?  
Josh in MD : 3/21/2020 9:18 pm : link
Quote:
Does anybody besides me think this pick 4 is too early for any of the O Line?


Laughing because I've read this maybe 500 times on BBI. I have no opinion whether it's right or wrong, but you're hardly alone.
...  
christian : 3/21/2020 9:27 pm : link
The GM, the last 2 coaches, the last 2 offensive coordinators, and the last 2 offensive line coaches have said basically this same thing.

It's ludicrous the Giants have arguably the best running back in football and have been a middle of the pack or worse running team since he was drafted.

They need to upgrade the overall talent on the line at LT, C, and RT. All three positions.
josh how do you distinguish talent, from coaching, from scheme? My  
plato : 3/21/2020 10:24 pm : link
guess would be it’s a combination, but i’m hoping a change n o line coaching and scheme will make our line look a,lot better.

But i don’t know and i’m certainly not a pretend football guru. So it’s just a thought from a fan.
Using the 4th pick in the draft for mediocre ol is insanity.  
TMS : 3/22/2020 1:14 am : link
we deserve to lose if we doin that, MO.
TMS: "for mediocre oOL is insanity"  
Torrag : 3/22/2020 1:52 am : link
If you define mediocre as multiple Top 10 ranked players...well yeah. Haha. Where you guys come up with this crap is baffling.

It's like when invent you it and see it on your screen it gains some twisted validity or truth in your mind.
YAY for that  
Victor in CT : 3/22/2020 8:39 am : link
and further tells me that they are going heavy on OL in the draft
RE: Paterson,  
cokeduplt : 3/22/2020 9:18 am : link
In comment 14845326 Shepherdsam said:
Quote:
You mean like his knee, or his achilles?



Fuck you for even saying that
RE: Using the 4th pick in the draft for mediocre ol is insanity.  
cokeduplt : 3/22/2020 9:22 am : link
In comment 14845515 TMS said:
Quote:
we deserve to lose if we doin that, MO.



Best OT class in a really long time. What are you talking about.
Insanity is playing with no capable starter at Right Tackle or Center  
LBH15 : 3/22/2020 9:28 am : link
in 2020, and no Left Tackle in 2021 after Solder is gone.

But yeah...hey, let's go draft that shiny new Cornerback!

I say this was all sincerity, what the hell is the purpose of drafting Saquon Barkley and Daniel Jones if we are going to continue to let them struggle getting hit behind the LOS for the rest of their rookie contracts?



RE: Insanity is playing with no capable starter at Right Tackle or Center  
GFAN52 : 3/22/2020 9:44 am : link
In comment 14845646 LBH15 said:
Quote:
in 2020, and no Left Tackle in 2021 after Solder is gone.

But yeah...hey, let's go draft that shiny new Cornerback!

I say this was all sincerity, what the hell is the purpose of drafting Saquon Barkley and Daniel Jones if we are going to continue to let them struggle getting hit behind the LOS for the rest of their rookie contracts?




Agreed. You certainly aren’t going to protect and extend the careers of the teams greatest investments without a powerful OL. Have to come out of this draft with a starting RT and a developmental LT and C.
It's clear the giants are going to use draft assets towards OL  
DavidinBMNY : 3/22/2020 9:48 am : link
The question is how many/much? It should be a multiple pick OL draft. I'd be ok if they really focused on injecting youth and talent there 3 picks seems right.
GFAN and David  
LBH15 : 3/22/2020 10:23 am : link
Exactly. In my view, not drafting OL early and often in this draft is just a clear cut error in judgment. Minimum 3-4 picks for the Oline.

Hoping for a bit of a trade down (to accumulate more picks) and grab several red chippers instead of one blue chip. Although if not then just pick your top OT.

BPA is always a strong strategy, but when you screw things up as much as these GMs (Reese and DG) have with the Oline, sometimes you just got to draft logically and prudently instead.
RE: josh how do you distinguish talent, from coaching, from scheme? My  
ColHowPepper : 3/22/2020 11:08 am : link
In comment 14845453 plato said:
Quote:
guess would be it’s a combination, but i’m hoping a change n o line coaching and scheme will make our line look a,lot better.
But i don’t know and i’m certainly not a pretend football guru. So it’s just a thought from a fan.
NYG have been relying on this tenuous rationalization for the last six years. Enough already, pls!!!!!

If coaching is such a difference maker, then getting better OL prospects in than the mediocre talent we have had and having superior coaching can only make that much more of a difference to the upside. It is a good OL class. Don't get cute, DG!!
I'm getting tired of writing the same things over and over again.  
Klaatu : 3/22/2020 11:17 am : link
Especially since I wrote basically the same things last year with regard to the draft - cluster-draft OT's, draft a good C/OG prospect - and for the same Goddamned reasons. It's getting very tedious now.
Dumpster diving into the numbers  
Colin@gbn : 3/22/2020 12:12 pm : link
Been following this 'we have to fix the OL' debate for awhile and thought it would be kind of insightful to look at the actual numbers. Let's start with total points per game. The Giants were 19th in PPG last year, not great but hardly abysmal. Defensively we were 30th in PPG allowed.

In terms of rushing offense, the Giants were actually tied for 6th in the league in yards per rushing attempt. and that's with Saquon running on one leg for close to 3/4s of the season.

Sacks allowed: Overall, the Giants were 20th in the league in total sacks allowed last year, again not necessarily where you want to be but hardly 'historically bad.' And breaking down the sack numbers is even more interesting. In the games he played, Eli was sacked on 3.4% of his pass attempts while it was over 8% for Danny Jones. Stated another way Eli was sacked every 30 passes he attempted, Jones every 12th throw. Now we all know that Eli got to be pretty good at getting the ball off quickly but that's a huge disparity. In fact, at Eli's sack rate prorated over the year the Giants would actually have had the few sacks allowed of any team. I'm no Einstein, but that tends to suggest to me that a goodly part of the Giants sack issues last year were DJ hanging onto the ball too long and we could make the OL better just by having him getting rid of the ball quicker. (And replaying some of the game tapes a significant % of his fumbles came late in plays when it appeared that he either should have thrown the ball away, taken the sack or just taken off.)

At the same time, looking at some of the pass D numbers, the Giants were 30th in the league yards per pass attempt against, 29th in % of big-play passes allowed, 28th in completion % allowed, and 26th in TD passes allowed. Interestingly, the Giants pass rush rush numbers weren't as bad, they were 22nd in sacking the QB, again not terrible, but not as bad as the coverage numbers.

This is not to say that the Giants don't need to upgrade along the OL, but there is a pretty good case to be made, based on the pure facts, that their biggest issues last year were defensively, in particular, the inability to cover people.
great context Colin - imo pass D and OL clearly top 2 needs  
Eric on Li : 3/22/2020 12:18 pm : link
pass rush 3rd. And fortunately the draft plays to that in round 1.

4 possible blue chip OT's
2 potentially elite coverage players may be available (Okudah/Simmons)
Pass rush is unlikely to be available but maybe (Chase Young)
Also a depth of options that we should be able to check each box once between 1st and 2nd round pick.

Just give me the BPA or best trade value available to stock pile as many top 50 picks as possible.

Yes OL is closer to passable than pass D right now, but an elite OL can make a bigger difference over an extended period of time (as it has for Dallas). And elite secondary is more elusive and less sustainable.
Colin  
Strahan91 : 3/22/2020 12:20 pm : link
good points and it doesn’t detract much from your overall argument but some of the rushing statistics are skewed by the fact that DJ had the second most rushing attempts on the team for 6 ypc and by Barkley’s handful of very long runs.
RE: Colin  
Eric on Li : 3/22/2020 1:09 pm : link
In comment 14845863 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
good points and it doesn’t detract much from your overall argument but some of the rushing statistics are skewed by the fact that DJ had the second most rushing attempts on the team for 6 ypc and by Barkley’s handful of very long runs.


Barkley averaged 4.6 ypc and accounted for 59% of the teams carries. His YPC was 15th best in the NFL among qualified runners. Those are good numbers but hardly other worldly outliers that will skew results, especially compared to his rookie year where he was at 5.0 ypc and accounted for almost 75% of team attempts himself. Or Derrick Henry this past year who average 5.1 ypc with 70% of his teams attempts.

Jones' 45 attempts of 362 (12%) did help offset some of loss from Barkley, but again, good but not otherworldly numbers that will skew like the top QB by YPC Lamar Jackson whose 176 attempts accounted for almost 30% his team's carries at a near 7 ypc.

Almost 30% of nyg carries last year went to sub-replacement level players like Gallman, Hillman, Eli Penny, and Buck Allen, who collectively averaged under 3.5 ypc.

The nyg team total of 4.7 ypc was good for 6th best in the NFL and seems fairly representative since it was exactly the same number as 2018 with a non-running QB and a fully healthy barkley. In a hypothetical world where the season started with the roster exactly as it is, I'd expect them to finish similarly as a team around the top 5-10 in ypc, again among the better rushing teams in the nfl (Dal, Ten, Bal, Car, SF, etc).

They 100% should not start the next season with the OL as it is, just agreeing with Colin that it's not starting from the complete disaster it's portrayed as.
Colin - no question the NYG couldn't cover anybody last year  
LBH15 : 3/22/2020 1:37 pm : link
and the secondary needs to improve but this isn't a test of determining which of the units played the worst between the Oline and the Secondary. They both were bad but the Oline needs the investment far more and here is why...

The secondary played really bad, but hopefully having so many rookies/young guys as we did was the major reason. Also, Bethea was useless and Peppers out a lot. And they just added Bradberry in free agency so with that and another year under the belts with some young guys this unit needs a chance to see if it can perform better. But I think they need more game experience and not so much new re-investment.

The Oline needs the investment far more. Mostly because of pure staffing needs...the Giants don't have a starting Right Tackle nor Center currently and Solder will likely be cut next year in a cap move even if he makes it thru 2020. But he is clearly breaking down more and more each year. They need 2 new starters on the line this year, and 3 when Solder is gone.

And yes, DJ needs better pocket awareness in his game but comparing sack numbers of him versus Eli to suggest that Oline can continue being a patchwork unit over time is pointless. Without investing in it big-time in this draft, you are simply wasting the two best assets that were added in years in Saquon and DJ. Unlike the secondary, this isn't a unit that needs more game experience...it needs credible talent.
Without slicing and dicing the data  
Strahan91 : 3/22/2020 1:41 pm : link
which isn’t necessary since we seem to agree more broadly speaking, one way to look at it though overly simplistic, is to use yards before contact per attempt. Barkley ranked 32 amongst qualifying backs. Slightly worse than 2018 (where it was no great shakes either).
Dumpster draft diving  
Colin@gbn : 3/22/2020 1:57 pm : link
Thanks Eric; I was going to mention the same data from 2018 but moved on for the sake of brevity. One thing that has been missing from the fans/media debate on the draft to a degree is what exactly is the Giants plan. Clearly they have used FA to date to upgrade the defense. My guess is they also intend to add an ER in free agency. I am also going to presume they have a priority list for the FA DEs that likely goes something like 1) Clowney; 2) Jenkins for the Jets and 3) Markus Golden and they'll want to get one as the dominos begin to fall.

With the draft one can make a pretty good case for two different paths, but you only have two premium picks so they'll likely have to make a choice. One, and its kind of where I have been leaning of late, is that having addressed the D in FA that you go offense in the first two rounds either OT, C or OT, WR. (Some people have talked about possibly waiting until the second to get the OT but that's in hail mary territory.)

The other option is to live with what they have on offense and keep on trucking with the defense, especially if they stay at #4 as that's the strength of the draft at that point. I know that will make some people's head explode, but I suspect that Judge and his people can look at the same numbers we are looking at and figure that everything else being equal (and of course it never is) that there is at least a reasonable expectation that the offense will be improved next year even with largely the same cast. One can probably reasonably expect Jones to improve in his second year with close tpo a full-year starting experience under his belt and hopefully, if the world gets out of this mess, a full training camp of first-team reps. One can also expect that Saquon is healthy for more than four games next year. One can also expect an uptick from the receivers if they can get Shephard, Slayton, Tate and Engram (not to mention a rookie from the 2nd-3rd rounds this year) on the field together more than last year. Even with the OL I suspect that there could be an expectation of some improvement from the current group simply because they all appear to be relatively healthy heading to camp this yeat unlike last year when Solder, Zeitler and Remmers were all dealing with stuff.

And fortunately with the draft now just 40 days away we'll find out soon enough what direction they do ultimately want to go in.
If DG, Judge and the rest of the front office are looking only  
LBH15 : 3/22/2020 2:16 pm : link
at 2019 to determine what to fix using the Draft, then the Giants have a pretty low chance of ever winning in this league.

The Giants need to use the Draft to mostly invest in its roster for the future. One can argue that Oline is the best investment over the short & long term since you need to fill several "open" positions and you need to give your two best assets a chance to perform.
colin: " sacks allowed"  
Torrag : 3/22/2020 2:54 pm : link
Using sacks as a stat in a vacuum to any statistical analysis of pass protection and offense and all you've got is a basically useless data set. The Giants were among the worst in the league in the combined pressure on the QB stats.

Despite Barkley's 'average rush yards' he was hemmed in and harried in the backfield all year and those numbers represent his individual effort and is bolstered by his ability to break off long gainers.

Maybe we should focus on the parts of the roster that will directly impact the development of the QB we picked #6 overall and the success of the running back we drafted #2 overall. Maybe?

Colin even the poorly applied stats such as you cite are useful to an extent. But they have to be combined with how it happened on the field to support offensive success or failure. By that measure our O-Line was a failure.
The 3 things we don't know that impact the OT draft decision IMO  
Eric on Li : 3/22/2020 3:38 pm : link
1- do they have any of the top OT's in the same talent tier as the top D (Young, Okudah, Simmons). Obviously depends on which D they have a shot at too, but at #4 there's a good chance it's top D player remaining vs. whoever their top OT is.

2- how big of a gap do they have between the top 8 OTs. As an example, Bob McGinn has 8 in his top 50. How big is the gap between Isaiah Wilson and Andrew Thomas? Or Wills and Ezra Cleveland? Where is Josh Jones? It makes it a lot easier to take a top D if they have a cluster of 5+ OT's closely rated because even though you can't predict all will fall to 2nd round pick, it's within their capability to move up for 1 like they did with Baker last year. Is there anyone else in this group that we aren't even discounting, like perhaps Lucas Niang or Prince? this is where having so many recent college coaches could be a big help.

3- how do they rate Nick Gates at RT? In 290 snaps last year he allowed 1 sack and had 0 penalties (that may not see like much but it's 30% of the snaps of Solder, so not insignificant). He looked good at the eye test and reportedly graded well.

The OC decision is slightly different and it's also supposedly an excellent draft for centers too, but I have a hard time believing they will go to the season with just Pulley and rookie.
RE: Hey Johnny!  
Johnny5 : 3/22/2020 4:32 pm : link
In comment 14845350 Shepherdsam said:
Quote:
I hope all is well.

Doing well bud, hope all is well with you! Getting ready for riding season?
RE: So smash mouth football  
TMS : 3/22/2020 5:57 pm : link
In comment 14845382 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
Means we are drafting 2 O Line back to back? Does anybody besides me think this pick 4 is too early for any of the O Line? Trading down to somewhere in picks 6-12 and getting a could more picks, maybe an extra 1st round pick makes sense if we go OT. If not and Simmons is there you gotta go with him.

Ezra Cleveland might be a good OT at pick 36.
. totally agree with your conclusion. All these OL are late first or 2nd round talent should not be considered with the 4th pick. Take Simms or Okudah if they are there or trade back to later in the draft for extra picks.
TMS: "All these OL are late first or 2nd round talent"  
Torrag : 3/22/2020 9:36 pm : link
Not this shit again. Hahaha.
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