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| 5)Jedrick Wills, Alabama (6-4, 312): Teams have had marginal success drafting Crimson Tide offensive linemen during the Nick Saban era. “We weren’t as firm on him as some of the other ones,” one scout said in reference to the other leading tackles in the draft. “He’s a pretty good athlete. Pretty strong. Shows some nasty. He played right tackle there but he looked like he can play left tackle.” One scout brought up Jonah Williams, the Alabama left tackle in 2017 and 2018 who was the 11th pick last year. “Jonah Williams is an all-star compared to this guy,” he said. “Awful. He’s upright. He’s a stiff guy.” He ran 5.06 seconds. “I’m not crazy about him but people love him,” said a third scout. “Every time I watched him, I didn’t see a really good athlete. Worked out well. I just don’t see the movement, finish, talent of a first-rounder. I do not think he could play left tackle.” |
There’s been noise here and elsewhere that Bob McGinn manipulates these profiles to favor certain prospects over others as a favor to agents. Or just straight pay for play.
because there is total consensus on Simmons - isn't there - lol
Agreed.
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In this draft. After 4 seasons of Ereck Flowrers, that scares the hell out of me. This is why I’m all in on Simmons. I hope and pray he is the pick at 4.
because there is total consensus on Simmons - isn't there - lol
100 pct !! There's not a consensus on any OT. This is just the media scouts aligning need with the best available and because of the depth in this draft. We can find value for the line later in the draft. You can draft Simmons as the best player available and build around for years. We could have done that with Aaron Donald. We cannot miss that chance again.
The term "Safest" should never be used on a pick in the top 5. If there is no consensus top OT in this draft, then the Giants should not draft one at #4.
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In this draft. After 4 seasons of Ereck Flowrers, that scares the hell out of me. This is why I’m all in on Simmons. I hope and pray he is the pick at 4.
because there is total consensus on Simmons - isn't there - lol
He’s the consensus best Linebacker prospect in the draft. I haven’t found anyone that would say otherwise.
Why does the consensus matter? All that matters is getting it right.
Unnamed sources seem unreliable or a tool of the writer to add weight to a story.
Simmons is not a slam dunk lock, oh he could be a good player
but he could also turn out to be Leonard Floyd.
I’m not sayin Gm we would be complete! But if you use this draft well which is deep in OL and wr, take a Wr with our 4th round pick and then a running back in the 5 th round. We can be very good this year.
I’m excited for this season and I’d really love them to do exactly as I say lol. I’ll let them pick the bpa at ol im rd 2 and 3 , wr in 4 and th in 5.
Every time someone actually does a film breakdown of the man you hear the same thing over and over...and it usually starts with the same word...WOW.
If you don't make an effort to inform your own opinion and regurgitate whichever draft talking head supports your Draft agenda you should sit out the debate.
As far as some 'stigma' attached to Alabama players...so you just decide to ignore the actual evaluation of the player due to a bias you created in your own mind. Yeah that's how the NFL evaluates players. How many Alabama players get drafted each year by the league? I hear about the failures but darn it no one talks about all the successes. I wonder why that is. The answer is...Agenda.
Don’t outthink yourselves
Incredible football player
I hope I can post this in two years when he is a pro bowler
because there is total consensus on Simmons - isn't there - lol
He’s the consensus best Linebacker prospect in the draft. I haven’t found anyone that would say otherwise.
That position shows either that you haven't been listening, or that those who pan Simmons for not having the right body type to be a linebacker doesn't fit your agenda. SImmons has his fans, but there's no way he's the consensus pick, or the consensus best linebacker in the draft.
Even if it’s only a high 3 and 4 for chargers or Carolina pick
Would give us enough picks to fill most spots
Trade two 7’s and a 6th for a fifth too
They're right.
We pick him.
I think some of you are going to have to get your heads wrapped around the concept that the team basically almost has to go OT early, and while Joe Thomas may not be sitting there at #4, Wills and one of the other candidates is going to be the pick. Save your rebuttal comments on BPA because I get it but don't subscribe to it solely.
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2020/3/6/21162231/nfl-draft-2020-jedrick-wills-jr-alabama-offensive-tackle-guard-film-highlights
Link - ( New Window )
Every time someone actually does a film breakdown of the man you hear the same thing over and over...and it usually starts with the same word...WOW.
If you don't make an effort to inform your own opinion and regurgitate whichever draft talking head supports your Draft agenda you should sit out the debate.
As far as some 'stigma' attached to Alabama players...so you just decide to ignore the actual evaluation of the player due to a bias you created in your own mind. Yeah that's how the NFL evaluates players. How many Alabama players get drafted each year by the league? I hear about the failures but darn it no one talks about all the successes. I wonder why that is. The answer is...Agenda.
Wills is so technically proficient. He combines it with strong (not necessarily elite) physical and triangle measurables. The tape is the best and cleanest of all 4. The upside may not quite be Becton or Wirfs but the floor is already extremely high with him. What's more is he comes in day 1 or near day 1 ready to play LT.
One usually goes with steady at a position like LT over anything else because its better to have 4 stalemates vs. 3 pancake blocks but 1 whiff everytime. That's just a scenario for perspective. Wills is better than just a stalemate blocker. He almost never misses and assignment and almost never whiffs. He's got point guard vision amd processes quickly, picks up stunts and games in his periphery. Footwork is superb.
There is more projection and risk with the other guys.
Martin Nelson two of the biggest Misses. I wouldn’t have taken Nelson over Barkley but he was every good as advertised We heard Cam Robinson wasnt good enough to be a the 25th pick. Same w Ryan Ramzcyck. Both might be the best OL in this team if they were taken instead of Engram
I have no idea of Wills is going to be a stud of a dud but the Giants have passed on More than enough solid to very good linesmen for players who never lasted going on 12 years now. At some point they need to find one for for fucks sake.
You want to refute that with some 'Bama player examples feel free. It wasn't personal.
You want to refute that with some 'Bama player examples feel free. It wasn't personal.
I agree with this take on the dismissing of a guy based on previous guys from the same school.
Doesn't necessarily mean anything. If someone could point me to a reason why something specifically about Bama prevents these guys from transitioning to the next level I'd love to hear it. I still wanna see how Jonah Williams does once he starts.
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In this draft. After 4 seasons of Ereck Flowrers, that scares the hell out of me. This is why I’m all in on Simmons. I hope and pray he is the pick at 4.
Why does the consensus matter? All that matters is getting it right.
Agreed. I have no idea why fans get hung up on the consensus other than being terrified of getting a bad draft grade from Mel Kiper.
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In comment 14845975 JoeyBigBlue said:
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In this draft. After 4 seasons of Ereck Flowrers, that scares the hell out of me. This is why I’m all in on Simmons. I hope and pray he is the pick at 4.
Why does the consensus matter? All that matters is getting it right.
Agreed. I have no idea why fans get hung up on the consensus other than being terrified of getting a bad draft grade from Mel Kiper.
These top 4 OTs aren't fools gold. They are arguably ALL better than last years top OT at 11 Jonah Williams.
Im betting 3 of the 4 will turn out to be good or better LTs in the NFL which has great value.
His only perceived weakness in my mind was his arm length but once he checked in at 34”+! Sign me up!
P.s. Listen to his interviews, he reminds me a lot of Saquon Barkley, similar mindsets imo
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To me is Andrew Thomas he can play both sides , has some problems with the outside bull rush but that’s coachable and what college OT doesn’t have that problem . And they can probably move back a few spots to get him
The term "Safest" should never be used on a pick in the top 5. If there is no consensus top OT in this draft, then the Giants should not draft one at #4.
So pick the 6th best OT in the second round versus the OT that is one of the four best (no consensus) at #4?
Do I have this strategy correct?
By that logic, if you really wanted a RB, we should have avoided Barkley in 2018.
The Bengals should have passed on Carson Palmer and the Jets on Darnold based on a poor run of USC QBs the last few decades.
By that logic, if you really wanted a RB, we should have avoided Barkley in 2018.
The Bengals should have passed on Carson Palmer and the Jets on Darnold based on a poor run of USC QBs the last few decades.
There can be some correlation since the coaching and system are pro caliber that prospects tend to look better than others. But the correlation is not strong enough to discount players entirely. Wills evaluation between film, measurables and intangibles is just too good. This is not a case of a player maxed out our over performing due to superior coaching or system. His stuff looks to be of the type that clearly translates at a high level to the NFL.
The thing is, I just don't know what the schools position history has to do with anything. The guy last year blew out his knee, freak injury, and before that, Alabama had a couple of tackles who didn't end up fitting the mold of elite left tackles, but what does that have to do with Wills? He looks as athletic as any offensive tackle that came out of Alabama in I don't know how long.
Sort of reminds me of before OBJ was drafted, there were people who panned the pick because LSU wasn't a WR factory at the time.
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They seem to be maxed out when they reach the NFL, similar to Clemson defenders. I don't see the athlete Torrag sees. Even though it might be the best handful of prospects in awhile, none is a no brainers for me.
The thing is, I just don't know what the schools position history has to do with anything. The guy last year blew out his knee, freak injury, and before that, Alabama had a couple of tackles who didn't end up fitting the mold of elite left tackles, but what does that have to do with Wills? He looks as athletic as any offensive tackle that came out of Alabama in I don't know how long.
Sort of reminds me of before OBJ was drafted, there were people who panned the pick because LSU wasn't a WR factory at the time.
Good points.
Furthermore, with his relationship to Saban, I would like to think Judge bends the shit out of Saban's ear this year regarding this Tackle. Otherwise, I suppose DG can rely on his 4 computer guys.
Nevertheless, the predisposition stuff with players from certain schools is like #99 on things that matter.
Wills might be different, maybe he will prove worthy of our pick. But, it doesn't make sense to me to ignore what feels like a pattern of prospects not living up to their draft status. It could be they're maxed out physically, it has been talked about in the media, and I can tell you it has been talked about at various Combines. It could be the coaching principles Saban doles out aren't translating to the NFL, it could be they're over-drafted because they went to Bama. I can't think of a Bama OT from Saban who stood out in the NFL off the top of my head.
That'll be the guy.
They are so far and away the most dominant OL in CFB every year each individual player is just in a different position than they will ever be in as a pro where there's rarely 1 other dominant player next to them let alone multiple. Kind of like how Haskins had a rude awakening as a pro when he no longer had clean pockets 90% of the time.
Let's use DJ Fluker as a specific example because we saw him here. He was clearly a freak athlete. At Bama he got to show off all his freakish strength, but his weaknesses were not exposed as much because he was on such a strong, run heavy, unit. He got to the pros and defensive coordinators with better players learned how to attack him against the pass and he just wasn't good enough to make the adjustment at tackle.
Sometimes it's harder to evaluate players in the all star team environment than when they are best player on their team by far because they all aren't all stars even if they look like it.
Point taken, Jon. But you understand my logic.
But with that said, the precedent that Bama Olineman avent faired well is like one of 100+ factors that will determine whether Mr. Wills is a success in the NFL or not. And one factor that in my opinion goes near the bottom of the list.
But with that said, the precedent that Bama Olineman avent faired well is like one of 100+ factors that will determine whether Mr. Wills is a success in the NFL or not. And one factor that in my opinion goes near the bottom of the list.
Agree with all of that and to be clear I don't think Wills is going to be a bad player. Cam Robinson is an example of a guy who may have fallen because of the Bama label and ended up a steal. Andre Smith was an enormous talent. The bama pedigree is simply a small factor as we are trying to parse the best OL in a competitively good class (and similarly for Wirfs the success Iowa OL have had is a small positive).
Andrew Thomas is the guy I think being underrated right now because faced the same SEC competition, played as a freshman from day 1, had a lot of success in terms of sacks allowed, and has some freakish athletic attributes that were even better than super freak Wirfs (36 inch arms, great 3 cone).
I could see Garrett/Columbo seeing a lot of Tyron Smith in Thomas even though he doesn't look to have the same level of movement.
I also think this Alabama Oline stigma is being overblown to some degree. I will look but not even sure there has been that many Bama' players taken over the past decade from the Oline position in Rd 1. So this "bust rate" is probably not even conclusive.
BBI doth protest too much, methinks from time to time.
James Carpenter (#25)
Fluker (#11)
Warmack (#10)
Koundajo (#44)
Ryan Kelly (#18)
Cam Robinson (#34)
Jonah Williams (#11)
8 in 10 years. Believe Kelly is the only one to make pro bowl.
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are overdrafted to some degree (versus other colleges) because of their dominating overall program. Though mitigating that to at least some degree is the overall quality of play Bama' faces most weeks in the very talented SEC.
But with that said, the precedent that Bama Olineman avent faired well is like one of 100+ factors that will determine whether Mr. Wills is a success in the NFL or not. And one factor that in my opinion goes near the bottom of the list.
Agree with all of that and to be clear I don't think Wills is going to be a bad player. Cam Robinson is an example of a guy who may have fallen because of the Bama label and ended up a steal. Andre Smith was an enormous talent. The bama pedigree is simply a small factor as we are trying to parse the best OL in a competitively good class (and similarly for Wirfs the success Iowa OL have had is a small positive).
Andrew Thomas is the guy I think being underrated right now because faced the same SEC competition, played as a freshman from day 1, had a lot of success in terms of sacks allowed, and has some freakish athletic attributes that were even better than super freak Wirfs (36 inch arms, great 3 cone).
I could see Garrett/Columbo seeing a lot of Tyron Smith in Thomas even though he doesn't look to have the same level of movement.
Wirfs allowed 1 pressure in his last 7 games. Even though I like Willis best followed by Becton I think the reports of DG having serious man love for Wirfs are legit. Some of the most connected guys have reported it. Him blowing up the combine probably sealed it. He is just a tad too inconsistent in my mind to be a good to great tackle. I see a Brandon Scherff situation all over again there.
This is Exactly what I think is going on here. The wording is too strong for me to make it seem more likely a real belief
So draft Wirfs. ;)
So draft Wirfs. ;)
Two of the last top 5 Iowa OL drafted to play Left Tackle were Robert Gallery and Scherff .
So draft Wirfs. ;)
Like LBs from Penn State, OL from Iowa (and Wisconsin) seem to be the real deal.
When the great debate started on the top 4 OTs, first thing I thought of was Iowa and Oline....
Is his technique and awareness consistent enough or improvable enough to take full advantage of his athletic traits? If so he is a dominant tackle in the NFL. If not he is an OG.
See how silly this is?
It's just not about the program. It's about the players.
See how silly this is?
It's just not about the program. It's about the players.
Just read over on ESPN+ the most underrated signings thus far. They cited Bulaga as one of the best signings.
Bulaga will come in to steady the ship after cementing his standing as one of the NFL's best pass-protectors over the course of his career. He has produced a top-10 pass-block grade among right tackles in every single season since 2014, with three of those being in the top three. And he's also coming off the second-best season of his career as a run-blocker, posting a 79.4 run-block grade in 2019 that ranked ninth among all tackles.
Not singing doesn't bother me by the way... ;)
James Carpenter (#25)
Fluker (#11)
Warmack (#10)
Koundajo (#44)
Ryan Kelly (#18)
Cam Robinson (#34)
Jonah Williams (#11)
8 in 10 years. Believe Kelly is the only one to make pro bowl.
But that’s my point. Not a lot at top end. And by the way many of the above have nice starting roles for years.
Here is Kollman's review of Wills or Wirf. Not to suggest Kollman is a top reliable source, but it's a decent listen and watch...
LINK - ( New Window )
1. Austin Jackson
2. Andrew Thomas
3. Mekhi Becton
4. Tristan Wirfs
5. Isaiah Wilson
6. Josh Jones
Those are the six he gives 1st round grades. Wills gets a 2nd round grade.
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I can only go by what I see on film and what I see is, an athletic player not playing up to his athletic talent consistently. He has lazy feet and doesn’t always finish his blocks and he doesn’t block until he hears the whistle. Most of these issues are when he is run blocking. As far as pass blocking, he seems to use all of his talents but it’s hard to trust him on every play. Also, when he gets tired he gets sloppy and nasty. Jedrick needs to improve his mental toughness and physical stamina.
Boylhart ranks the OL...
1. Austin Jackson
2. Andrew Thomas
3. Mekhi Becton
4. Tristan Wirfs
5. Isaiah Wilson
6. Josh Jones
Those are the six he gives 1st round grades. Wills gets a 2nd round grade.
My problem with Boylhart is that he tends to overrate high ceiling, low floor players who carry a lot of risk. I am not going to speculate on the reasoning behind that, but it is what it is.
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 14845975 JoeyBigBlue said:
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In this draft. After 4 seasons of Ereck Flowrers, that scares the hell out of me. This is why I’m all in on Simmons. I hope and pray he is the pick at 4.
because there is total consensus on Simmons - isn't there - lol
100 pct !! There's not a consensus on any OT. This is just the media scouts aligning need with the best available and because of the depth in this draft. We can find value for the line later in the draft. You can draft Simmons as the best player available and build around for years. We could have done that with Aaron Donald. We cannot miss that chance again.
The two most important players on our team are Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley. They need to be supported. That is the first order of business if we want to be a successful franchise. That means OL. Simmons is no more a sure thing than any of these tackles.
And the other OT's become great picks, is it still a good selection?