Concerning comments RE: Wills

In comment 14846287 Torrag said:

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with grades for #4 overall. It will be interesting to see who they are and his scouting breakdown.

It will be Thomas and Wirfs. I guarantee Wirfs is one based on what Sy' values in his OL.

In comment 14846273 JonC said:

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LT was a unique beast, an exception to the rule. Let's be fair.

Point taken, Jon. But you understand my logic.

are overdrafted to some degree (versus other colleges) because of their dominating overall program. Though mitigating that to at least some degree is the overall quality of play Bama' faces most weeks in the very talented SEC.

But with that said, the precedent that Bama Olineman avent faired well is like one of 100+ factors that will determine whether Mr. Wills is a success in the NFL or not. And one factor that in my opinion goes near the bottom of the list.

In comment 14846304 LBH15 said:

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are overdrafted to some degree (versus other colleges) because of their dominating overall program. Though mitigating that to at least some degree is the overall quality of play Bama' faces most weeks in the very talented SEC. But with that said, the precedent that Bama Olineman avent faired well is like one of 100+ factors that will determine whether Mr. Wills is a success in the NFL or not. And one factor that in my opinion goes near the bottom of the list.

Agree with all of that and to be clear I don't think Wills is going to be a bad player. Cam Robinson is an example of a guy who may have fallen because of the Bama label and ended up a steal. Andre Smith was an enormous talent. The bama pedigree is simply a small factor as we are trying to parse the best OL in a competitively good class (and similarly for Wirfs the success Iowa OL have had is a small positive).

Andrew Thomas is the guy I think being underrated right now because faced the same SEC competition, played as a freshman from day 1, had a lot of success in terms of sacks allowed, and has some freakish athletic attributes that were even better than super freak Wirfs (36 inch arms, great 3 cone).

I could see Garrett/Columbo seeing a lot of Tyron Smith in Thomas even though he doesn't look to have the same level of movement.

at the NFL level because he does so many things well although not dominating at any.

I also think this Alabama Oline stigma is being overblown to some degree. I will look but not even sure there has been that many Bama' players taken over the past decade from the Oline position in Rd 1. So this "bust rate" is probably not even conclusive.

BBI doth protest too much, methinks from time to time.

Andre Smith (#6)
James Carpenter (#25)
Fluker (#11)
Warmack (#10)
Koundajo (#44)
Ryan Kelly (#18)
Cam Robinson (#34)
Jonah Williams (#11)

8 in 10 years. Believe Kelly is the only one to make pro bowl.

In comment 14846316 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 14846304 LBH15 said: Quote: are overdrafted to some degree (versus other colleges) because of their dominating overall program. Though mitigating that to at least some degree is the overall quality of play Bama' faces most weeks in the very talented SEC. But with that said, the precedent that Bama Olineman avent faired well is like one of 100+ factors that will determine whether Mr. Wills is a success in the NFL or not. And one factor that in my opinion goes near the bottom of the list. Agree with all of that and to be clear I don't think Wills is going to be a bad player. Cam Robinson is an example of a guy who may have fallen because of the Bama label and ended up a steal. Andre Smith was an enormous talent. The bama pedigree is simply a small factor as we are trying to parse the best OL in a competitively good class (and similarly for Wirfs the success Iowa OL have had is a small positive). Andrew Thomas is the guy I think being underrated right now because faced the same SEC competition, played as a freshman from day 1, had a lot of success in terms of sacks allowed, and has some freakish athletic attributes that were even better than super freak Wirfs (36 inch arms, great 3 cone). I could see Garrett/Columbo seeing a lot of Tyron Smith in Thomas even though he doesn't look to have the same level of movement.

Wirfs allowed 1 pressure in his last 7 games. Even though I like Willis best followed by Becton I think the reports of DG having serious man love for Wirfs are legit. Some of the most connected guys have reported it. Him blowing up the combine probably sealed it. He is just a tad too inconsistent in my mind to be a good to great tackle. I see a Brandon Scherff situation all over again there.

Can't wait to read Sy's report on him. Is be happy with him or Thomas if we trade down

In comment 14846073 Diver_Down said:

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Unnamed scouts saying a player is awful? Makes me think said unnamed scout wants the player to fall to the team they represent.

This is Exactly what I think is going on here. The wording is too strong for me to make it seem more likely a real belief

not only for the awe-inspiring magnificent work you do for all of us, BUT ALSO for including the two hints of hints (re OT and WR) that will keep us speculating for weeks. Drive the traffic! Relieve the boredom!! Thank you!!!

and trust the Iowa program because they have produced some solid OLs lately - Bulaga, Yanda, Scherff, Reiff, etc.

So draft Wirfs. ;)

In comment 14846437 bw in dc said:

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and trust the Iowa program because they have produced some solid OLs lately - Bulaga, Yanda, Scherff, Reiff, etc. So draft Wirfs. ;)

Two of the last top 5 Iowa OL drafted to play Left Tackle were Robert Gallery and Scherff .

I watched every play against Iowa in the bowl game and Wirfs was incredibly dominant. If we got OT, I am on board with Wirfs with the only question mark being is that he played right tackle and have no idea if he can move to the other side. I have little doubt he will be an outstanding right tackle.

In comment 14846437 bw in dc said:

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and trust the Iowa program because they have produced some solid OLs lately - Bulaga, Yanda, Scherff, Reiff, etc. So draft Wirfs. ;)

Like LBs from Penn State, OL from Iowa (and Wisconsin) seem to be the real deal.
When the great debate started on the top 4 OTs, first thing I thought of was Iowa and Oline....

In comment 14846507 Marty866b said:

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I watched every play against Iowa in the bowl game and Wirfs was incredibly dominant. If we got OT, I am on board with Wirfs with the only question mark being is that he played right tackle and have no idea if he can move to the other side. I have little doubt he will be an outstanding right tackle.

Is his technique and awareness consistent enough or improvable enough to take full advantage of his athletic traits? If so he is a dominant tackle in the NFL. If not he is an OG.

Bulaga is a good player. Who else? Reilly Reiff?...Not. Scherff?...Not.

See how silly this is?

It's just not about the program. It's about the players.

the GM selects a different player at the same position and declines to option to select the player named by the scout. To have this difference of opinion between scout and GM become public knowledge would make it tough for scout, and possibly for the GM.

In comment 14846541 Torrag said:

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Bulaga is a good player. Who else? Reilly Reiff?...Not. Scherff?...Not. See how silly this is? It's just not about the program. It's about the players.

Just read over on ESPN+ the most underrated signings thus far. They cited Bulaga as one of the best signings.

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The Chargers' offensive line desperately needed change. It ranked No. 31 in the PFF pass-block grade a season ago, and the Chargers' offensive tackles gave up the highest pressure rate of any tackle tandem in the NFL. Bulaga will come in to steady the ship after cementing his standing as one of the NFL's best pass-protectors over the course of his career. He has produced a top-10 pass-block grade among right tackles in every single season since 2014, with three of those being in the top three. And he's also coming off the second-best season of his career as a run-blocker, posting a 79.4 run-block grade in 2019 that ranked ninth among all tackles.

Not singing doesn't bother me by the way... ;)

not singing...

In comment 14846348 Eric on Li said:

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Andre Smith (#6) James Carpenter (#25) Fluker (#11) Warmack (#10) Koundajo (#44) Ryan Kelly (#18) Cam Robinson (#34) Jonah Williams (#11) 8 in 10 years. Believe Kelly is the only one to make pro bowl.

But that’s my point. Not a lot at top end. And by the way many of the above have nice starting roles for years.

go plot the last 64 starting tackles to open the 2019 season and where they went to school.

a unespectuaral career. I feel like his ceiling and floor are practically the same, from a below average to average nfl starter with an 8-10 year career or so of that type of play. He won't be a complete bust but I would say you want a helluva lot better than that from 4.

In comment 14846614 Zeke's Alibi said:

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a unespectuaral career. I feel like his ceiling and floor are practically the same, from a below average to average nfl starter with an 8-10 year career or so of that type of play. He won't be a complete bust but I would say you want a helluva lot better than that from 4.

Here is Kollman's review of Wills or Wirf. Not to suggest Kollman is a top reliable source, but it's a decent listen and watch...
LINK - ( New Window )

That's been a problem for him (if I remember correctly). As for Wills, include Boylhart among those not a huge fan....

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I can only go by what I see on film and what I see is, an athletic player not playing up to his athletic talent consistently. He has lazy feet and doesn’t always finish his blocks and he doesn’t block until he hears the whistle. Most of these issues are when he is run blocking. As far as pass blocking, he seems to use all of his talents but it’s hard to trust him on every play. Also, when he gets tired he gets sloppy and nasty. Jedrick needs to improve his mental toughness and physical stamina.

Boylhart ranks the OL...
1. Austin Jackson
2. Andrew Thomas
3. Mekhi Becton
4. Tristan Wirfs
5. Isaiah Wilson
6. Josh Jones

Those are the six he gives 1st round grades. Wills gets a 2nd round grade.

doesn't seem to mesh well with a smash-mouth, power run scheme.

In comment 14846649 Milton said:

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That's been a problem for him (if I remember correctly). As for Wills, include Boylhart among those not a huge fan.... Quote: I can only go by what I see on film and what I see is, an athletic player not playing up to his athletic talent consistently. He has lazy feet and doesn’t always finish his blocks and he doesn’t block until he hears the whistle. Most of these issues are when he is run blocking. As far as pass blocking, he seems to use all of his talents but it’s hard to trust him on every play. Also, when he gets tired he gets sloppy and nasty. Jedrick needs to improve his mental toughness and physical stamina. Boylhart ranks the OL... 1. Austin Jackson 2. Andrew Thomas 3. Mekhi Becton 4. Tristan Wirfs 5. Isaiah Wilson 6. Josh Jones Those are the six he gives 1st round grades. Wills gets a 2nd round grade.

My problem with Boylhart is that he tends to overrate high ceiling, low floor players who carry a lot of risk. I am not going to speculate on the reasoning behind that, but it is what it is.

Good post, good to see one digging into it a bit as well.

Worst case scenario is that he is a good NFL OG. I wouldn't take any of the OT's at 4, but with a trade down, they begin to make sense.

been posted before?
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 14846014 OdellLovesOBJ said:

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In comment 14845991 gidiefor said: Quote: In comment 14845975 JoeyBigBlue said: Quote: In this draft. After 4 seasons of Ereck Flowrers, that scares the hell out of me. This is why I’m all in on Simmons. I hope and pray he is the pick at 4. because there is total consensus on Simmons - isn't there - lol 100 pct !! There's not a consensus on any OT. This is just the media scouts aligning need with the best available and because of the depth in this draft. We can find value for the line later in the draft. You can draft Simmons as the best player available and build around for years. We could have done that with Aaron Donald. We cannot miss that chance again. The two most important players on our team are Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley. They need to be supported. That is the first order of business if we want to be a successful franchise. That means OL. Simmons is no more a sure thing than any of these tackles.

saw your post.

In comment 14846763 Section331 said:

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Worst case scenario is that he is a good NFL OG. I wouldn't take any of the OT's at 4, but with a trade down, they begin to make sense.

And the other OT's become great picks, is it still a good selection?